Author Topic: A few questions...  (Read 348 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ainnir

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 211
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: none
A few questions...
« on: February 04, 2016, 08:19:43 PM »
More or less unrelated to each other...

As an inquirer (possibly catechumen?), what do I do with "other" Bible studies?  People keep asking me to join them in group Bible studies and likely will always do so because I live in an area where that's what one does if one is a serious Christian.

Second, sharing various Orthodox "bits" with others (who may or may not be open to Orthodoxy)?  For example, prayer books, the divine liturgy (printed out), hymns, icons, etc.  This sort of thing is initiated by the other party; I quit my monologues about Orthodoxy well over a year ago.

Third, joining others in their services?  I have family that occasionally like us to show up and we always have.

And...maybe this is dumb...is it bad to sing the Divine Liturgy during the week?  Any of it?  I only know a few bits and pieces, but I often can't help humming it. 

There was something else, but it slipped my mind...   8)


Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,386
  • This dog's body intentionally left blank
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2016, 08:28:17 PM »
More or less unrelated to each other...

As an inquirer (possibly catechumen?), what do I do with "other" Bible studies?  People keep asking me to join them in group Bible studies and likely will always do so because I live in an area where that's what one does if one is a serious Christian.

Personally, it's not something I'd advise doing unless one was fairly solid in his/her Orthodox faith. 

Quote
Second, sharing various Orthodox "bits" with others (who may or may not be open to Orthodoxy)?  For example, prayer books, the divine liturgy (printed out), hymns, icons, etc.  This sort of thing is initiated by the other party; I quit my monologues about Orthodoxy well over a year ago.

If people ask, I don't see why you can't share with them unless there's some risk of sacrilege.   

Quote
Third, joining others in their services?  I have family that occasionally like us to show up and we always have.

I'd recommend speaking to your priest about that.  It's not unheard of, but it's hard to give general advice. 

Quote
And...maybe this is dumb...is it bad to sing the Divine Liturgy during the week?  Any of it?  I only know a few bits and pieces, but I often can't help humming it.

No, it's not bad.  Many Orthodox do this, intentionally or unintentionally.  Blurting out "Take, eat, this is my body" might be weird, but there's plenty of other stuff from the Liturgy that's just fine for singing at home.
This is a great day for this forum and for the internet. Mor's energies like a burning comet are raining possibilities for enlightenment upon us all.

Everyone wants Mor.

Mor, you're a jackass.

Offline scamandrius

  • Musicians don't dance
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,677
  • Why do I waste my time here?
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: DOWAMA of AANA
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2016, 08:29:51 PM »
More or less unrelated to each other...

As an inquirer (possibly catechumen?), what do I do with "other" Bible studies?  People keep asking me to join them in group Bible studies and likely will always do so because I live in an area where that's what one does if one is a serious Christian.

I would politely refuse.  You're planning on engaging on a very serious, life-changing journey. If you value that, and you absolutely appear that way, I would steer clear of anything that could derail you from the path.

Second, sharing various Orthodox "bits" with others (who may or may not be open to Orthodoxy)?  For example, prayer books, the divine liturgy (printed out), hymns, icons, etc.  This sort of thing is initiated by the other party; I quit my monologues about Orthodoxy well over a year ago.

You need to learn what it means to be and live the Orthodox life so that means you need to focus on your own salvation.  IF someone asks, don't demur, but maybe refer them to someone who would be able to answer.

Third, joining others in their services?  I have family that occasionally like us to show up and we always have.

Again, you are engaging in a life changing journey; it's best that you attend Orthodox services during this time to immerse yourself in the life of the church.  Don't be disrespectful about it, though.

And...maybe this is dumb...is it bad to sing the Divine Liturgy during the week?  Any of it?  I only know a few bits and pieces, but I often can't help humming it. 

There was something else, but it slipped my mind...   8)

On days when no Liturgy is served, in the Monasteries, the Typika are said which include Psalms 102, 145, the hymn O Only begotten Son and the Beatitudes and a few more.  A LIturgy can only be celebrated with a priest and/or bishop but it is absolutely permissible for you to chant the typical psalms and more on a daily basis.

Offline ZealousZeal

  • Caustic & Caffeinated
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,300
  • I'm a barley girl, in a barley world
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2016, 08:30:46 PM »
More or less unrelated to each other...

As an inquirer (possibly catechumen?), what do I do with "other" Bible studies?  People keep asking me to join them in group Bible studies and likely will always do so because I live in an area where that's what one does if one is a serious Christian.

As an inquirer, you can do what you want. If you want to go to them, then no one will slap your hands. As a catechumen taking steps to join the Church, ask your priest. As someone who has been to countless Bible studies, in general I advise against it. :P

Quote
Second, sharing various Orthodox "bits" with others (who may or may not be open to Orthodoxy)?  For example, prayer books, the divine liturgy (printed out), hymns, icons, etc.  This sort of thing is initiated by the other party; I quit my monologues about Orthodoxy well over a year ago.

I don't understand. They're asking you for these things, or you want to give them?

Quote
Third, joining others in their services?  I have family that occasionally like us to show up and we always have.

I think this is something that you sort of have to take on a case-by-case basis, with advice from your priest. Again, as an inquirer, you can do what you want. A lot of us have families of other faith traditions, so things like weddings or baby blessings or whatnot come up frequently. For me, I go to such things to respectfully observe without participation to keep family peace and good will. As for regular Sundays, my family is out of town, and before we converted, whenever we visited we went to their church with them, so the expectation was there. Over time, we've transitioned so that now when we're visiting them, we go to a local Orthodox church.

Quote
And...maybe this is dumb...is it bad to sing the Divine Liturgy during the week?  Any of it?  I only know a few bits and pieces, but I often can't help humming it. 

Hum on, friend.

Quote
There was something else, but it slipped my mind...   8)

We'll be here when you remember.
Ecc 10:19- Men prepare a meal for enjoyment, and wine makes life merry, and money is the answer to everything.

Offline Ainnir

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 211
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: none
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2016, 09:17:49 PM »
I don't understand. They're asking you for these things, or you want to give them?
They ask.  I'm not sure if for any other purpose than curiosity.

Offline Ainnir

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 211
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: none
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2016, 09:27:00 AM »
I remembered!!!  I have a New Oxford Annotated Bible from college; it has the deuterocanonical texts, which I'd like to read.  It's an NRSV translation--is it better to wait and get a better translation or just use this one? 

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,386
  • This dog's body intentionally left blank
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2016, 09:33:25 AM »
I remembered!!!  I have a New Oxford Annotated Bible from college; it has the deuterocanonical texts, which I'd like to read.  It's an NRSV translation--is it better to wait and get a better translation or just use this one?

You can use that if you want.  Personally, I agree with the late Fr Thomas Hopko that the NRSV is just horrible and think you'd be better off with another translation (I prefer the "old" RSV, but I also use the NASB), but I'm not sure it's so horrible you have to avoid reading a NRSV Bible entirely until you get a better translation.  Just be aware that it can be awful when it's bad.   
This is a great day for this forum and for the internet. Mor's energies like a burning comet are raining possibilities for enlightenment upon us all.

Everyone wants Mor.

Mor, you're a jackass.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Humble Servant and Spokesperson of the Fourteenth Apostle
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,001
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2016, 09:58:30 AM »
I hum or whistle portions of the liturgy all week long, sometimes without even thinking about it. I just think it is beautiful.
Quote from: King Olav Tryggvasson
I order you and all your subjects to be baptized. If you refuse, I'll have you killed on the spot and I swear I will ravage every island with fire and steel.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,386
  • This dog's body intentionally left blank
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 10:09:14 AM »
I hum or whistle portions of the liturgy all week long, sometimes without even thinking about it. I just think it is beautiful.

Well aren't you holy...
This is a great day for this forum and for the internet. Mor's energies like a burning comet are raining possibilities for enlightenment upon us all.

Everyone wants Mor.

Mor, you're a jackass.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Humble Servant and Spokesperson of the Fourteenth Apostle
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,001
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 10:10:19 AM »
I hum or whistle portions of the liturgy all week long, sometimes without even thinking about it. I just think it is beautiful.

Well aren't you holy...
I'm not sure if whistling the liturgy is holy or trivializing it. For the sake of my ego, I will say it is holy.
Quote from: King Olav Tryggvasson
I order you and all your subjects to be baptized. If you refuse, I'll have you killed on the spot and I swear I will ravage every island with fire and steel.

Offline nothing

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,737
    • CLICKBAIT
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2016, 12:36:59 PM »
I hum or whistle portions of the liturgy all week long, sometimes without even thinking about it. I just think it is beautiful.

Well aren't you holy...
When he takes a vow of Silence, then we'll see how holy he really is.
Atheists are weak because they are deaf to joy and are unable to dance.

Quote from: Porter ODoran
The cold, gemlike flame of skeptical criticism elucidates only its own color.
Quote from: William T
While the prospects of an operatic cosmic catastrophe may always be looming behind us due to our temperaments, we do tend to be around lots and lots of the opposite sex from cradle to grave.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Humble Servant and Spokesperson of the Fourteenth Apostle
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,001
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2016, 01:03:21 PM »
I hum or whistle portions of the liturgy all week long, sometimes without even thinking about it. I just think it is beautiful.

Well aren't you holy...
When he takes a vow of Silence, then we'll see how holy he really is.
Will never happen.

Also, +1 postcount.
Quote from: King Olav Tryggvasson
I order you and all your subjects to be baptized. If you refuse, I'll have you killed on the spot and I swear I will ravage every island with fire and steel.

Offline Ainnir

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 211
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: none
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2016, 01:40:03 PM »
I remembered!!!  I have a New Oxford Annotated Bible from college; it has the deuterocanonical texts, which I'd like to read.  It's an NRSV translation--is it better to wait and get a better translation or just use this one?

You can use that if you want.  Personally, I agree with the late Fr Thomas Hopko that the NRSV is just horrible and think you'd be better off with another translation (I prefer the "old" RSV, but I also use the NASB), but I'm not sure it's so horrible you have to avoid reading a NRSV Bible entirely until you get a better translation.  Just be aware that it can be awful when it's bad.

I tried the first couple chapters of Tobit and I agree, the translation is awful; I'm not sure I'll be able to take it.  I didn't have a basis for comparison when I used it in college, and forgot it existed until a couple weeks ago.  I might have to go see what's available for Kindle.   :)

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Automated Kibitz Machine
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,635
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Serious Injury List
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2016, 03:08:43 PM »
As an inquirer (possibly catechumen?), what do I do with "other" Bible studies?  People keep asking me to join them in group Bible studies and likely will always do so because I live in an area where that's what one does if one is a serious Christian.

Third, joining others in their services?  I have family that occasionally like us to show up and we always have.
First, what do you think? What is your initial/gut thought on the answer to these two questions?
According to clock time and calendar time the approval of threads may seem to be long delayed, but in sacred time it is always near at hand, always imminent.
Vote for a Ministry section on OC.net

Offline LenInSebastopol

  • Dimly Illumined
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,837
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2016, 06:47:28 PM »
I remembered!!!  I have a New Oxford Annotated Bible from college; it has the deuterocanonical texts, which I'd like to read.  It's an NRSV translation--is it better to wait and get a better translation or just use this one?

You can use that if you want.  Personally, I agree with the late Fr Thomas Hopko that the NRSV is just horrible and think you'd be better off with another translation (I prefer the "old" RSV, but I also use the NASB), but I'm not sure it's so horrible you have to avoid reading a NRSV Bible entirely until you get a better translation.  Just be aware that it can be awful when it's bad.

I tried the first couple chapters of Tobit and I agree, the translation is awful; I'm not sure I'll be able to take it.  I didn't have a basis for comparison when I used it in college, and forgot it existed until a couple weeks ago.  I might have to go see what's available for Kindle.   :)

I trust you have the Orthodox Study Bible for Kindle? There are several other Orthodox Kindle books as well, a lot of it free (or close to it) if you like reading old dead guys, really old.
Mark 14:36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us

Offline FormerReformer

  • Convertodox of the convertodox
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,589
    • Music and Orthodoxy
  • Faith: Convertodox
  • Jurisdiction: Netodoxy
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2016, 07:08:26 PM »
I remembered!!!  I have a New Oxford Annotated Bible from college; it has the deuterocanonical texts, which I'd like to read.  It's an NRSV translation--is it better to wait and get a better translation or just use this one?

You can use that if you want.  Personally, I agree with the late Fr Thomas Hopko that the NRSV is just horrible and think you'd be better off with another translation (I prefer the "old" RSV, but I also use the NASB), but I'm not sure it's so horrible you have to avoid reading a NRSV Bible entirely until you get a better translation.  Just be aware that it can be awful when it's bad.

I will second this. I had bought an NRSV when I was in the inquiry stage because it was cheap and had the deuterocannon. I quit reading it soon on as the translation was just so egregiously horrid.

I will also say that I see nothing wrong with humming or singing bits of Liturgy - in fact, I would say it's a good thing that shows it is sinking in.

As for the rest of the OP:
Bible studies: I'd personally sit them out. At the best they are just going to be namby pamby fluff and filler, bits of feel good philosophy and spiritual baby food. At the worst they're going to be teaching things outright hostile to Orthodox doctrine.

Orthodox "bits": I would caution on sharing too much with those who are opposed to Orthodoxy. There have been a few times I've answered what seemed an initially innocent question only to have the questioner end up screaming profanities toward the end. It didn't hurt me, any, but I think it wrong to provide others with an excuse to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

Joining their services: I think this requires a bit of parsing. By "joining" do you mean joining with them for services? I think doing this occasionally is fine, especially for special events like weddings and funerals. If you seriously believe what the Orthodox do about our sacraments, then don't join in on communion.

If by "joining" you mean joining in their prayer, adding an "Amen" at the end, what have you, then no, I don't think that's so good. That said, I've been known to jump in on a rendition of "Amazing Grace" from time to time.
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline Sam G

  • Pre-Nikonian Hyperdox Convert
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,076
  • Does this pose make me look existential?
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR - Old Rite
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2016, 01:03:48 AM »
More or less unrelated to each other...

As an inquirer (possibly catechumen?), what do I do with "other" Bible studies?  People keep asking me to join them in group Bible studies and likely will always do so because I live in an area where that's what one does if one is a serious Christian.

It can be awkward, especially if most of the members have theological positions contrary to Orthodoxy. It's best not to cloud your mind at this point if you're seriously considering Orthodoxy.

Second, sharing various Orthodox "bits" with others (who may or may not be open to Orthodoxy)?  For example, prayer books, the divine liturgy (printed out), hymns, icons, etc.  This sort of thing is initiated by the other party; I quit my monologues about Orthodoxy well over a year ago.

If someone expresses interest, I don't see what the problem is. I wouldn't be giving out icons though. Most non-Orthodox Christians (even Catholics) don't know how to properly venerate them.

Third, joining others in their services?  I have family that occasionally like us to show up and we always have.

If it's for family, I don't think it's a problem to join them as an observer. Stand or sit in a respectful manner, but I wouldn't sing or participate.

And...maybe this is dumb...is it bad to sing the Divine Liturgy during the week?  Any of it?  I only know a few bits and pieces, but I often can't help humming it. 

There was something else, but it slipped my mind...   8)

Nothing wrong with this.
Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

Offline Ainnir

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 211
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: none
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2016, 07:01:53 PM »
As an inquirer (possibly catechumen?), what do I do with "other" Bible studies?  People keep asking me to join them in group Bible studies and likely will always do so because I live in an area where that's what one does if one is a serious Christian.

Third, joining others in their services?  I have family that occasionally like us to show up and we always have.
First, what do you think? What is your initial/gut thought on the answer to these two questions?

The Bible study depends on what kind of study is being proposed--a small group of people hashing out private interpretations, or a work published by a company (some of those are meatier than others).  At this particular point, I don't think the stated purpose would benefit me, nor do I think I would benefit others by being there.  But one or several individuals may need companionship more than study, and a group study would at least present the views of that sect.  Both things could be accomplished other ways, though.  I am generally disinclined to accept, but unwilling to close the door entirely "just in case."  I'm thinking in relational and ministry terms, for whatever it might be worth.

Visiting services...I do still participate, sort of.  I've always abstained from communion, because I at least understand the statement being made.  But the prayer and songs are more difficult; not every expressed sentiment is wrong.  I don't regard the experience equal in weight to the Divine Liturgy, but again, I'm not wanting to toss up a wall and strain relationships unless it's absolutely necessary. 


Offline NicholasMyra

  • Automated Kibitz Machine
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,635
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Serious Injury List
Re: A few questions...
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 01:12:31 PM »
As for the study, sounds like you won't end up going. Like you said, you can counsel people 1 on 1 better. People don't talk about their personal lives in bible studies, anyway, only false versions of events that fit well into the story they tell about themselves.
According to clock time and calendar time the approval of threads may seem to be long delayed, but in sacred time it is always near at hand, always imminent.
Vote for a Ministry section on OC.net