Author Topic: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person  (Read 671 times)

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Offline CarolS

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Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« on: October 27, 2017, 11:14:40 PM »
I am looking for suggestions on sharing the Orthodox faith with someone who is Muslim but perhaps open minded about Christianity.
Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?

Offline youssef

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2017, 12:09:34 AM »
In what state he is now. Did he refuse Islam or still accept it.

Offline CarolS

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2017, 12:42:44 AM »
Not yet at the point ready to deny Islam but had attended services at a Greek Church.
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2017, 01:35:39 AM »
Just letting them know you're there to answer questions and provide information if they ask for it might best. Ask yourself what you would feel comfortable with them doing if things were the other way round and you had attended prayers at their mosque so they thought you might be interested in Islam.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 01:36:01 AM by FinnJames »

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2017, 02:32:19 AM »
Making stereotypical assumption here that your friend is not an American but you could point out that Orthodoxy is available in his/her own language too.
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Offline recent convert

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2017, 07:53:47 AM »
Perhaps this person could be told that Christ said that St. John the Baptist was the final prophet ( Matthew 11:7-13). That Jesus Christ, who they consider a prophet, said this centuries before their prophet was born. This is original revelation and not readjusted later on. That we believe that Christ was crucified in the flesh ( John 20:24-31)  for our sins ( Luke 23:39-43). That we do not worship the Theotokos but honor her as the Lord Jesus  said to ( John 19:25-27)That Jesus Christ is God ( John 1:1-18, Revelation 1: eight .He calls us to repentance ( Matthew 4:17) and to live this out with alms giving, prayer, and fasting ( Matthew 6:1-18), to love God and neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40) and treat others by this (Matthew 7:1-12) and to live this out accordingly (Romans 13:8-10).If a person cannot grasp this then just say I believe that God still holds everyone accountable to his moral law and pray that we both live our lives in mutual peace ( Romans 2) and that all will hear the voice of Christ ( John 5:22-30).
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 08:00:19 AM by recent convert »
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Offline Nicodemusz138

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2017, 09:32:15 AM »
Perhaps this person could be told that Christ said that St. John the Baptist was the final prophet ( Matthew 11:7-13). That Jesus Christ, who they consider a prophet, said this centuries before their prophet was born. This is original revelation and not readjusted later on. That we believe that Christ was crucified in the flesh ( John 20:24-31)  for our sins ( Luke 23:39-43). That we do not worship the Theotokos but honor her as the Lord Jesus  said to ( John 19:25-27)That Jesus Christ is God ( John 1:1-18, Revelation 1: eight .He calls us to repentance ( Matthew 4:17) and to live this out with alms giving, prayer, and fasting ( Matthew 6:1-18), to love God and neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40) and treat others by this (Matthew 7:1-12) and to live this out accordingly (Romans 13:8-10).If a person cannot grasp this then just say I believe that God still holds everyone accountable to his moral law and pray that we both live our lives in mutual peace ( Romans 2) and that all will hear the voice of Christ ( John 5:22-30).

Well, first, we need to climb over the claim that the Bible has been "corrupted" and the Quran is the accurate representation of it.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 09:36:57 AM by Nicodemusz138 »
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Offline recent convert

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2017, 10:45:48 AM »
I know I I mentioned that the Gospel states that St. John the Baptist is the final prophet. That this testimony is uncorrupted centuries before their "prophet". I think it is possible by this premise that a foundation for acceptance of the Gospel is possible. I am just trying to convey our faith in  a firm but non confrontational way.
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Offline Nicodemusz138

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2017, 11:18:50 AM »
I know I I mentioned that the Gospel states that St. John the Baptist is the final prophet. That this testimony is uncorrupted centuries before their "prophet". I think it is possible by this premise that a foundation for acceptance of the Gospel is possible. I am just trying to convey our faith in  a firm but non confrontational way.

Muslims also believe St. John the Forerunner (aka Yahya ibn Zakariya) is a prophet, but again, we need to show that the Bible is uncorrupted, we just cannot cite verses that the muslims believe has been corrupted, this will go nowhere.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2017, 11:24:36 AM »
I am looking for suggestions on sharing the Orthodox faith with someone who is Muslim but perhaps open minded about Christianity.

Most Muslims are not this way. If you're looking for suggestions, I will need a bit more detail. I don't believe the corruption of the Bible is a problem. All books from the ancient world are corrupted in some way, including the Qur'an. Muslims just need to apply the same standard with their religion as they do with ours.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 11:28:17 AM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline CarolS

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2017, 11:33:06 AM »
Thanks for the ideas.  I'm currently reading "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" by Nabeel Qureshi.  This is giving me a basic understanding of Islamic objections to Christianity.  I am curious how it strikes any Muslim who has been indoctrinated against images to walk into an Orthodox Church and not only see images but people venerating them.  I suppose some Protestant converts have the same reaction.
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Offline CarolS

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2017, 11:37:14 AM »
I am looking for suggestions on sharing the Orthodox faith with someone who is Muslim but perhaps open minded about Christianity.

Most Muslims are not this way. If you're looking for suggestions, I will need a bit more detail. I don't believe the corruption of the Bible is a problem. All books from the ancient world are corrupted in some way, including the Qur'an. Muslims just need to apply the same standard with their religion as they do with ours.

Muslims, however, are not willing to admit that their scriptures could possibly be corrupted.  Nabeel Qureshi explains very well how the "eastern" (islamic) thinking accepts absolutely the authority of their scripture and what they have been taught.  They are willing to analyze any errors in Christianity, but won't look at their own faith the same way.  It is more of a "western" approach to be willing to critically analyze something, take it apart, and then when you agree that it all makes sense to accept it as faith.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2017, 12:03:59 PM »
Thanks for the ideas.  I'm currently reading "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" by Nabeel Qureshi.  This is giving me a basic understanding of Islamic objections to Christianity.  I am curious how it strikes any Muslim who has been indoctrinated against images to walk into an Orthodox Church and not only see images but people venerating them.  I suppose some Protestant converts have the same reaction.

Shi'ites are more tolerant of images than Sunnis are. If they're Iraqi, Iranian, from one of the Gulf States or Lebanon that might be why. If that's the case, then it might be easier to accept that the Qur'an is corrupted. Since Shi'ite tradition teaches that the Sunnis corrupted the original (Shi;ite) Qur'an.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 12:05:41 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2017, 12:04:48 PM »
I am looking for suggestions on sharing the Orthodox faith with someone who is Muslim but perhaps open minded about Christianity.

Most Muslims are not this way. If you're looking for suggestions, I will need a bit more detail. I don't believe the corruption of the Bible is a problem. All books from the ancient world are corrupted in some way, including the Qur'an. Muslims just need to apply the same standard with their religion as they do with ours.

Muslims, however, are not willing to admit that their scriptures could possibly be corrupted.  Nabeel Qureshi explains very well how the "eastern" (islamic) thinking accepts absolutely the authority of their scripture and what they have been taught.  They are willing to analyze any errors in Christianity, but won't look at their own faith the same way.  It is more of a "western" approach to be willing to critically analyze something, take it apart, and then when you agree that it all makes sense to accept it as faith.

Yeah, I realize that. That's what makes it so hard. Muslims don't care about the facts, they're just interested in being right and us being wrong.
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Offline Cognomen

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2017, 01:27:15 PM »
Since Shi'ite tradition teaches that the Sunnis corrupted the original (Shi;ite) Qur'an.

They may have different teachings, but they both use the same Qur'an.

Back to the original topic, I'm at a loss for explaining Christianity to Muslims, and I get plenty of opportunities. My utter lack of ability to do so has stuck in my craw.
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Offline CarolS

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2017, 01:47:10 PM »
I haven't finished the book "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" yet, but Qureshi explains that what helped him along the way were Christians who were willing to engage him in a friendly respectful way.

Other books in my stack of reading which I have yet to tackle: 
No God but One, by Nabeel Qureshi
What every Christian needs to know about the Qur'an, by James R. White
Unveiling Islam, by Ergun Mehmet Caner, Emir Fethi Caner
Answering Islam by Norman Geisler, Abdul Saleeb

                     

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Offline CarolS

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2017, 01:50:19 PM »
It seems that many Muslims who have been schooled in their faith know (or think they know) what is wrong about Christianity, yet most Christians would not be able to argue for Christianity in the same way.  We know our faith yet know little about what is erroneous in Islam that Christianity clearly disproves.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2017, 06:06:00 PM »
Since Shi'ite tradition teaches that the Sunnis corrupted the original (Shi;ite) Qur'an.

They may have different teachings, but they both use the same Qur'an.

Back to the original topic, I'm at a loss for explaining Christianity to Muslims, and I get plenty of opportunities. My utter lack of ability to do so has stuck in my craw.

Well, start with Judaism. Judaism taught that God would send a Messiah (or Christ) to Israel, and create a new covenant with the people. That's basically what we consider the Church to be.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2017, 06:07:32 PM »
It seems that many Muslims who have been schooled in their faith know (or think they know) what is wrong about Christianity, yet most Christians would not be able to argue for Christianity in the same way.  We know our faith yet know little about what is erroneous in Islam that Christianity clearly disproves.

Yeah, Muslims have a huge complex. One of their biggest complexes is Christianity. More Muslims teach about how bad and stupid Christianity is, more than they teach about Islamic doctrine. At least, that's been my experience.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2017, 06:24:17 PM »
I haven't finished the book "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" yet, but Qureshi explains that what helped him along the way were Christians who were willing to engage him in a friendly respectful way.

Other books in my stack of reading which I have yet to tackle: 
No God but One, by Nabeel Qureshi
What every Christian needs to know about the Qur'an, by James R. White
Unveiling Islam, by Ergun Mehmet Caner, Emir Fethi Caner
Answering Islam by Norman Geisler, Abdul Saleeb

                   

Be very careful of anything by Caner http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/29/AR2010062905331.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergun_Caner#Controversy
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Offline Luke

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2017, 07:59:52 PM »
I am looking for suggestions on sharing the Orthodox faith with someone who is Muslim but perhaps open minded about Christianity.
rather than trying to decipher islam and come up with arguments, can you invite this person to a Liturgy?

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2017, 08:18:55 PM »
I haven't finished the book "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" yet, but Qureshi explains that what helped him along the way were Christians who were willing to engage him in a friendly respectful way.

Other books in my stack of reading which I have yet to tackle: 
No God but One, by Nabeel Qureshi
What every Christian needs to know about the Qur'an, by James R. White
Unveiling Islam, by Ergun Mehmet Caner, Emir Fethi Caner
Answering Islam by Norman Geisler, Abdul Saleeb

Books by Robert Spencer.
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Offline Cognomen

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2017, 05:23:17 AM »
Since Shi'ite tradition teaches that the Sunnis corrupted the original (Shi;ite) Qur'an.

They may have different teachings, but they both use the same Qur'an.

Back to the original topic, I'm at a loss for explaining Christianity to Muslims, and I get plenty of opportunities. My utter lack of ability to do so has stuck in my craw.

Well, start with Judaism. Judaism taught that God would send a Messiah (or Christ) to Israel, and create a new covenant with the people. That's basically what we consider the Church to be.

I don't believe this analogy is particularly strong. I'm familiar with the differences between what Jews and Christians taught regarding the Messiah, but what I have not gleaned from your comments is the significant difference between how Sunni and Shia interpret the Qur'an. This could all be irrelevant to the OP's inquiry though.

I suppose Luke's point, to invite the person to a liturgy, is the best, since the person in question has already attended services and expressed interest.

Thank goodness that I'm not in the business of apologetics, as I've found merely explaining Xtianity to Muslims (or anyone not predisposed to the faith, really) is particularly challenging. Perhaps that's my failing--I'm pretty bad--but Muslim to Christian conversion numbers suggest it's a deeper challenge than that.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2017, 11:16:39 AM »
Well, there are no differences on how Jews and Christians interpreted the Messiah initially. Dr. Richard Carrier, though he's a mythicist, has thoroughly dealt with the idea that Christianity was an isolated sect, with an esoteric interpretation of the Jewish Scriptures. Christianity was actually extremely mainstream, the only difference was that the Christians, unlike other Jews, attributed to Jesus of Nazareth, this Messianic mission. It's not as if Jews didn't interpret the same texts in similar ways, and read those same texts. They did, it's just modern Jewish and historical revisionism that has tried to separate Christianity from it's very Jewish roots.

Shi'ites and Sunnis have a very different understanding of their faiths. Sunnis believe that holistically Islam is essentially perfect (based on Qur'an 5:3), and that it's not subject to interpretation. The scholars have already interpreted the texts, and the gates of ijtihad have been closed since Ahmad ibn Hanbal (780-855). That's the reason why Islam, or at least the Sunni version, is effectively stuck in the Middle Ages.

Shi'ites, on the other hand, are extremely open to different interpretations about their religion. Their Maraji' ad-deen (aka. Grand Ayatollahs, Faqihs and Mujtahids), those whom they are supposed to emulate when it comes to religious questions (sort of like bishops for us I suppose,) are the ones who interpret their Scriptures. Furthermore, Shi'ites consider 14 authorities to be "infallible" (Muhammad, Ali, Fatima and the 12 Imams) whereas Sunnis consider only the prophets to be infallible.

So, this does lead to completely different understandings of their texts. Shi'ites are very willing to dispense with uncomfortable texts or confusing texts, and say that they are inauthentic texts or require the interpretation of the Faqih. Sunnis, however, have a very literalistic and fundamentalist interpretation of their texts. More fundamentalist than a Southern Baptist in the United States.

I don't know if that clears anything up, but it's topical.
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Offline The Misplaced Book

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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2017, 09:47:02 PM »
Live the Gospel.   Pray for this person often.   Leave your door open, and by the Grace of God he will step into the doorway.   "Arguing" the Faith is pointless and more often than not, harmful.   If they are open, and want to discuss the Faith then by all means share, but do so always in Love.    Love. Love. Love.    The rapid fire snark, meme and mock style of discourse you see on the internet should be avoided at all costs.
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Re: Bringing Orthodox Christianity to a Muslim Person
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2017, 10:38:54 PM »
I am looking for suggestions on sharing the Orthodox faith with someone who is Muslim but perhaps open minded about Christianity.

I would say take the opportunity to continue to learn about your faith more, especially things he has difficulty in.  It’s good to learn about his faith as well and how to answer his faith, but it’s better if you were the one being questioned and ready to give an answer.  In addition, you can compare some parts in your faith with Islam as a way of “speaking” his language.  For instance, there are verses in the Quran that says very intriguing things about Jesus (Isa) that should make one wonder.

And be a good friend.  Sometimes a relationship is more important than apologetics.  It’s more foundational and helps build good rapport to be able to see the doctrines of the Church in a better light.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 10:40:23 PM by minasoliman »
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