Author Topic: history of episcopal sakkos  (Read 2628 times)

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Offline samkim

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history of episcopal sakkos
« on: November 11, 2009, 08:21:39 PM »
1) What is the relationship between the Sakkos, Dalmatikon, Sticharion, and western Dalmatic and alb?
2) Why did bishops in the west continue to wear a chasuble, while in the east bishops wore the sakkos instead of the phelonion?
3) Did eastern bishops ever wear a phelonion over a sakkos, as  western bishops are permitted to wear a dalmatic under the chasuble?
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2009, 08:31:28 PM »
The polystavron predates the sakkos for Bishops. This was a "chasuble"  with tessellated Crosses, and is often seen in Icons of early Bishop Saints:



The sakkos was originally worn by the Emperor.
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Offline mike

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2009, 08:39:00 PM »
Bishops wear phelonions instead of sakkoses on St. James Liturgy.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 08:39:33 PM by mike »

Offline samkim

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2009, 08:50:16 PM »
The polystavron predates the sakkos for Bishops. This was a "chasuble"  with tessellated Crosses, and is often seen in Icons of early Bishop Saints:

Oh okay. That's what I meant by "while in the east bishops wore the sakkos instead of the phelonion?"
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline pensateomnia

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2009, 02:33:59 PM »
1) What is the relationship between the Sakkos, Dalmatikon, Sticharion, and western Dalmatic and alb?

Sticharion = alb
Sakkos = Dalmatic

Nowadays, the Dalmatikon is only for deacons or subdeacons. Originally, it was an imperial vestment, which some Bishops and their archdeacons were allowed to wear. Most of the eastern vestments were imperial in origin, which really just means they were fancy cloth made with gold thread.
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Offline mike

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2009, 07:30:22 PM »
What is the difference between sticharion and dalmatikon?

In Poland older and taller acolytes usually borrow deaconal sticharions (with buttons).
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 07:30:39 PM by mike »

Offline arimethea

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2009, 01:37:00 AM »
1) What is the relationship between the Sakkos, Dalmatikon, Sticharion, and western Dalmatic and alb?

Sticharion = alb
Sakkos = Dalmatic

Nowadays, the Dalmatikon is only for deacons or subdeacons. Originally, it was an imperial vestment, which some Bishops and their archdeacons were allowed to wear. Most of the eastern vestments were imperial in origin, which really just means they were fancy cloth made with gold thread.

The Dalmatic is not related to the Sakkos, the Sakkos is strictly an Imperial garment that only the Emperor could wear. When there was no longer an Emperor the Patriarch of Constantinople started to wear the Sakkos and the Crown and soon there after it spread amongst all the Bishops.
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2009, 02:03:24 AM »
I cannot recall the name of the book, but Archbishop Chrysostomos of Etna, Greek Old Calendar Synod in Resistance's Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies, has published an excellent paperback book on the historical development of vestments.  Google CTOS for their web site.
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Offline pensateomnia

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2009, 10:21:47 AM »
The Dalmatic is not related to the Sakkos, the Sakkos is strictly an Imperial garment that only the Emperor could wear. When there was no longer an Emperor the Patriarch of Constantinople started to wear the Sakkos and the Crown and soon there after it spread amongst all the Bishops.

Of course, they aren't historically related or identical, but they are analogous.

Further, the sakkos was used by many Patriarchs and Archbishops on major feast days, as attested as early as the 12th century by Balsamon -- well before the Fall of Constantinople. It became ubiquitous later on.

Really, all of the eastern vestments being discussed were Imperial garments at one time or another. If you go back far enough (fourth century), even the Dalmatikon was for the Roman Emperor, then only for high-ranking Imperial officials, then for some high-ranking hierarchs, and so on. In that sense, there's really nothing all that unique about the sakkos being an Emperor-only garment.
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline arimethea

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2009, 02:43:26 PM »
Further, the sakkos was used by many Patriarchs and Archbishops on major feast days, as attested as early as the 12th century by Balsamon -- well before the Fall of Constantinople. It became ubiquitous later on.
Do you know in which writings Balsamon discusses this? I have read through a number of his works but I don't remember him ever commenting on vestments, but when I was reading him it was on research for canon law so it wouldn't be surprising if I didn't read about vestments.
Joseph

Offline pensateomnia

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2009, 08:18:48 PM »
Do you know in which writings Balsamon discusses this? I have read through a number of his works but I don't remember him ever commenting on vestments, but when I was reading him it was on research for canon law so it wouldn't be surprising if I didn't read about vestments.

No, I will try to find it. From what I recall, it's in a passage where he is discussing the rights/practices of different Patriarchs / Metropolitans, and how this also relates to liturgical garb. Only the Pope of Alexandria can wear a head covering during divine services. Something like that.
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline arimethea

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2009, 12:12:39 AM »
Do you know in which writings Balsamon discusses this? I have read through a number of his works but I don't remember him ever commenting on vestments, but when I was reading him it was on research for canon law so it wouldn't be surprising if I didn't read about vestments.

No, I will try to find it. From what I recall, it's in a passage where he is discussing the rights/practices of different Patriarchs / Metropolitans, and how this also relates to liturgical garb. Only the Pope of Alexandria can wear a head covering during divine services. Something like that.

If you can even find the title of this work that wold be great, this sounds like something I wouldn't mind translating if it isn't in English.
Joseph

Offline samkim

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2010, 06:50:22 PM »
Why didn't western bishops adopt the sakkos/dalmatic as their normal liturgical vestment? (Although some traditional RC bishops do wear a dalmatic under their chasuble.)
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline samkim

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2010, 06:52:08 PM »
Bishops wear phelonions instead of sakkoses on St. James Liturgy.

This is an interesting fact.
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Offline yBeayf

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Re: history of episcopal sakkos
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2010, 10:02:25 AM »
Quote
Why didn't western bishops adopt the sakkos/dalmatic as their normal liturgical vestment? (Although some traditional RC bishops do wear a dalmatic under their chasuble.)

They weren't under the eastern emperor, so they had no motivation to adopt Imperial vestments.

In the traditional Roman rite, a bishop wears a chasuble over a dalmatic over a tunicle (the vestment proper to subdeacons) over an alb, thus showing he possesses the fullness of the priestly orders.