OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 16, 2014, 05:36:35 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags CHAT Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Vampires and werewolves are real?  (Read 21265 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« on: November 04, 2009, 09:45:18 PM »

I didn't know where to put this, but I would like to read the opinions of other Orthodox believers.

Vampires, werewolves—these are not products of pure fantasy; rather those who’ve emerged by God’s grace from occult entanglements have given credence that these phenomena are part of the demonic realm and real people do get involved in these occult practices which can and do destroy souls. (emphasis mine)

The above comment was made by a dear friend (devout Orthodox believer) and she gives no references to check with regard to her claim regarding the reliability of such assertions. In previous communications, she has given dire warnings regarding the “Twilight” series; that vampires are real creatures.

Obviously vampires and the like are the stuff of ancient (and modern) lore; but I was wondering what the Church teaches on such creatures (if anything) and is this statement anywhere near accurate; remembering that we are talking about claims, it would appear, of the genuine existence of human undead and humans that morph into animals.

I would grateful if this topic didn’t get sidetracked with opinions regarding the literary quality of the “Twilight” series; or whether or not this is healthy reading for teens. As an avid reader of the vampire genre, I'm rather intrigued by the claim that such things could *biologically* exist.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 09:46:38 PM by Riddikulus » Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 10:02:26 PM »

I didn't know where to put this, but I would like to read the opinions of other Orthodox believers.

Vampires, werewolves—these are not products of pure fantasy; rather those who’ve emerged by God’s grace from occult entanglements have given credence that these phenomena are part of the demonic realm and real people do get involved in these occult practices which can and do destroy souls. (emphasis mine)

The above comment was made by a dear friend (devout Orthodox believer) and she gives no references to check with regard to her claim regarding the reliability of such assertions. In previous communications, she has given dire warnings regarding the “Twilight” series; that vampires are real creatures.

Obviously vampires and the like are the stuff of ancient (and modern) lore; but I was wondering what the Church teaches on such creatures (if anything) and is this statement anywhere near accurate; remembering that we are talking about claims, it would appear, of the genuine existence of human undead and humans that morph into animals.

I would grateful if this topic didn’t get sidetracked with opinions regarding the literary quality of the “Twilight” series; or whether or not this is healthy reading for teens. As an avid reader of the vampire genre, I'm rather intrigued by the claim that such things could *biologically* exist.


I personally believe that both vampires and werewolves can exist, they are clear manifestations of demonic presence. That said, I am not necessarily sure that such entities exist today, the Trickster has far more potent weapons at his disposal.

That said, I'm not sure of any official church teaching on the matter. I know Vladika Alexander (of thrice blessed memory!) did affirm the existence of vampires, equating them to individuals who had a compulsion to drink blood.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 10:04:06 PM by Ukiemeister » Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
GabrieltheCelt
Son of a Preacher man
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,971


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2009, 10:54:49 PM »

I didn't know where to put this, but I would like to read the opinions of other Orthodox believers.

Vampires, werewolves—these are not products of pure fantasy; rather those who’ve emerged by God’s grace from occult entanglements have given credence that these phenomena are part of the demonic realm and real people do get involved in these occult practices which can and do destroy souls. (emphasis mine)

The above comment was made by a dear friend (devout Orthodox believer) and she gives no references to check with regard to her claim regarding the reliability of such assertions. In previous communications, she has given dire warnings regarding the “Twilight” series; that vampires are real creatures.

Obviously vampires and the like are the stuff of ancient (and modern) lore; but I was wondering what the Church teaches on such creatures (if anything) and is this statement anywhere near accurate; remembering that we are talking about claims, it would appear, of the genuine existence of human undead and humans that morph into animals.

I would grateful if this topic didn’t get sidetracked with opinions regarding the literary quality of the “Twilight” series; or whether or not this is healthy reading for teens. As an avid reader of the vampire genre, I'm rather intrigued by the claim that such things could *biologically* exist.


I personally believe that both vampires and werewolves can exist, they are clear manifestations of demonic presence.

 I don't know if I believe in Bram Stoker's version of the vampire, but from Orthodox sources I've read, demons are able to shape-shift or at least make it seem as if they can.  Belief in werewolves and vampires are somewhat still common throughout the Balkans and I would bet that the various churches have prayers to guard against them.  In Romania, for example, the belief in strigoi and vârcolac are still prevalent in the countryside.  I wish to add that I mean no disrespect towards my Romanian friends or the Romanian culture.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 11:00:55 PM by GabrieltheCelt » Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..."  ~Iconodule
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 9,099


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2009, 11:00:16 PM »

In Romania, for example, the belief in strigoi and vârcolac are still prevalent in the countryside.

Interesting you should bring this up, GabrieltheCelt. If I'm not mistaken, the word vrykolakas is the Greek word for vampire. Seems superstitions die hard in some parts of the world ......
Logged
GabrieltheCelt
Son of a Preacher man
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,971


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2009, 11:10:07 PM »

In Romania, for example, the belief in strigoi and vârcolac are still prevalent in the countryside.

Interesting you should bring this up, GabrieltheCelt. If I'm not mistaken, the word vrykolakas is the Greek word for vampire.

 Very interesting.  BTW, you can call me plain ol' Gabriel if you like.  Wink
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..."  ~Iconodule
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 7,817


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 11:18:25 PM »

Here is an excerpt on the subject from my upcoming book, Mystery and Meaning:         

                          BELIEF in VAMPIRES?
   They asked me, “Do you really believe in vampires?”
          I answered:
“I know they exist. They walk amongst us every day. They disguise themselves as human; but in reality, they are houses of demons ensconced in bodies of flesh. But their deeds reveal their true nature; and I observe their evil deeds and recognize them for what they are. So, beware of those that thirst for blood. Beware of those who love war and execution, abortion and euthanasia, and "scientific research" involving the destruction of human life. Beware of those who devise sophisticated weapons of mass destruction and invent modern methods of cruelty and torture. Beware of those who seek financial profit at the expense of the poor, the needy, and the weak. They may appear human, but they are in actuality soulless vampires.”


Selam
Logged

“Lord, I say too many uncharitable things about people every day. I say them because they make me look clever. Help me to realize how cheap this is. I am stupid, quite as stupid as the people I ridicule. Help me to stop this selfishness, because I love You dear God." ~ FLANNERY O'CONNOR ~
ms.hoorah
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 866


« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 11:32:06 PM »

The Canadian Psychiatric Journal reported cases of lycanthropy but this was several decades ago.
 
In one case, a young man, was convinced that he was a werewolf.  He was  ingested LSD and strychnine.  He claimed to have seen fur growing on his hands and on his face.  Soon he was overcome by a compulsion to chase after and eat rodents.  He wandered in this delusional state for several days before he was taken for medical care.  He claimed to be possessed by the devil and  insisted that he had unusual powers.  He was diagnosed as schizophrenic.  He was treated with an antipsychotic drug and was discharged  to an outpatient clinic.  After a few visits, he stopped taking the medication and left treatment. 

 
Another “werewolf” patient was admitted to the psych hospital after repeated public displays of bizarre activity including howling at the moon and sleeping in cemeteries.  He was psychotic and diagnosed with schizophrenia.  He was placed on an antipsychotic drugs and exhibited no further symptoms of clinical lycanthropy.
Logged
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 9,099


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2009, 11:35:14 PM »

Here is an excerpt on the subject from my upcoming book, Mystery and Meaning:         

                          BELIEF in VAMPIRES?
   They asked me, “Do you really believe in vampires?”
          I answered:
“I know they exist. They walk amongst us every day. They disguise themselves as human; but in reality, they are houses of demons ensconced in bodies of flesh. But their deeds reveal their true nature; and I observe their evil deeds and recognize them for what they are. So, beware of those that thirst for blood. Beware of those who love war and execution, abortion and euthanasia, and "scientific research" involving the destruction of human life. Beware of those who devise sophisticated weapons of mass destruction and invent modern methods of cruelty and torture. Beware of those who seek financial profit at the expense of the poor, the needy, and the weak. They may appear human, but they are in actuality soulless vampires.”


Selam

Ummm, Gebre, I think Riddikulus was referring to actual, "real" creatures/beings who are said to suck blood, or mutate between human and animal forms depending on whether it is night or day. What you are referring to are folks whose behavior or means of earling a living are predatory and immoral, and analogous to the creatures of legend and fable of which Riddi speaks.

If I'm wrong, Riddi, please correct me.
Logged
SolEX01
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 10,193


WWW
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2009, 12:02:59 AM »

I never believed that vampires and werewolves are real for they mock the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

A Human Being is not the Eucharist regardless of what Anne Rice and Hollywood want us to think and believe.

(SolEX01 descends from his anti-vampire soapbox and is subsequently attacked by the stars of the last 5 years of Vampire Movies)  Shocked
Logged
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2009, 12:04:27 AM »

I never believed that vampires and werewolves are real for they mock the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

A Human Being is not the Eucharist regardless of what Anne Rice and Hollywood want us to think and believe.

(SolEX01 descends from his anti-vampire soapbox and is subsequently attacked by the stars of the last 5 years of Vampire Movies)  Shocked

So you don't believe that demons can manifest themselves in vampiric or lycanthropic form??
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
SolEX01
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 10,193


WWW
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2009, 12:07:10 AM »

I never believed that vampires and werewolves are real for they mock the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

A Human Being is not the Eucharist regardless of what Anne Rice and Hollywood want us to think and believe.

(SolEX01 descends from his anti-vampire soapbox and is subsequently attacked by the stars of the last 5 years of Vampire Movies)  Shocked

So you don't believe that demons can manifest themselves in vampiric or lycanthropic form??

I believe in demons; I don't believe they can manifest themselves in vampiric or lycanthropic form as depicted by Hollywood.
Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2009, 12:09:51 AM »

Here is an excerpt on the subject from my upcoming book, Mystery and Meaning:         

                          BELIEF in VAMPIRES?
   They asked me, “Do you really believe in vampires?”
          I answered:
“I know they exist. They walk amongst us every day. They disguise themselves as human; but in reality, they are houses of demons ensconced in bodies of flesh. But their deeds reveal their true nature; and I observe their evil deeds and recognize them for what they are. So, beware of those that thirst for blood. Beware of those who love war and execution, abortion and euthanasia, and "scientific research" involving the destruction of human life. Beware of those who devise sophisticated weapons of mass destruction and invent modern methods of cruelty and torture. Beware of those who seek financial profit at the expense of the poor, the needy, and the weak. They may appear human, but they are in actuality soulless vampires.”


Selam

Ummm, Gebre, I think Riddikulus was referring to actual, "real" creatures/beings who are said to suck blood, or mutate between human and animal forms depending on whether it is night or day. What you are referring to are folks whose behavior or means of earling a living are predatory and immoral, and analogous to the creatures of legend and fable of which Riddi speaks.

If I'm wrong, Riddi, please correct me.

Yes, LBK, I'm talking about real undead humans and humans that morph into animals; not demons; not wanna be vamps. The real deal!
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 12:15:43 AM »

The Canadian Psychiatric Journal reported cases of lycanthropy but this was several decades ago.
 
In one case, a young man, was convinced that he was a werewolf.  He was  ingested LSD and strychnine.  He claimed to have seen fur growing on his hands and on his face.  Soon he was overcome by a compulsion to chase after and eat rodents.  He wandered in this delusional state for several days before he was taken for medical care.  He claimed to be possessed by the devil and  insisted that he had unusual powers.  He was diagnosed as schizophrenic.  He was treated with an antipsychotic drug and was discharged  to an outpatient clinic.  After a few visits, he stopped taking the medication and left treatment. 

 
Another “werewolf” patient was admitted to the psych hospital after repeated public displays of bizarre activity including howling at the moon and sleeping in cemeteries.  He was psychotic and diagnosed with schizophrenia.  He was placed on an antipsychotic drugs and exhibited no further symptoms of clinical lycanthropy.


I'm sure than people can be convinced that they are vamps or werewolves, but I'm really talking about becoming the real thing. My friend seems to be convinced that the "Twilight" series and supposedly all like literature is revealing something that is in existence; not simply demonic possession or mental illness. She seems to believe that one can become one of the undead or attain the morphing abilities of the werewolf and that people should be warned against reading such literature for fear of being lured into the occult and becoming one of these creatues.

edit: Or maybe I'm reading something into her comment that isn't there?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 12:31:54 AM by Riddikulus » Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian
Posts: 6,670



« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2009, 12:24:59 AM »

My friend seems to be convinced that the "Twilight" series and supposedly all like literature is revealing something that is in existence; not simply demonic possession or mental illness. She seems to believe that one can become one of the undead or attain the morphing abilities of the werewolf and that people should be warned against reading such literature for fear of being lured into the occult and becoming one of these creatures.

If you disagree with your friend, just ignore her.
Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2009, 12:26:55 AM »

I never believed that vampires and werewolves are real for they mock the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

A Human Being is not the Eucharist regardless of what Anne Rice and Hollywood want us to think and believe.

(SolEX01 descends from his anti-vampire soapbox and is subsequently attacked by the stars of the last 5 years of Vampire Movies)  Shocked

So you don't believe that demons can manifest themselves in vampiric or lycanthropic form??

Yes, I see what you mean, though I have read my friend's fears as something else, but then her statement is a little confusing, especially in light of her previous comments. My point is that even if demons manifested themselves as such things, it doesn't actually mean that there are such things are vampires and werewolves. That humans live on as "undead" or that humans morph into other creatures is fantasy. Am I being too literalist in my understanding of her claim?
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
SolEX01
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 10,193


WWW
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2009, 12:32:59 AM »

I'm sure than people can be convinced that they are vamps or werewolves, but I'm really talking about becoming the real thing. My friend seems to be convinced that the "Twilight" series and supposedly all like literature is revealing something that is in existence; not simply demonic possession or mental illness. She seems to believe that one can become one of the undead or attain the morphing abilities of the werewolf and that people should be warned against reading such literature for fear of being lured into the occult and becoming one of these creatues.

Anne Rice tried to convince the masses that the Vampire Lestat was real; He wasn't.

The Twilight series of novels is written by ... OMG!  Roll Eyes  ... a Mormon

From the first line of her biography:

Quote
Stephenie Meyer's life changed dramatically on June 2, 2003. The stay-at-home mother of three young sons woke up from a dream featuring seemingly real characters that she could not get out of her head.
 

Twilight, from an Orthodox Christian perspective, is reviewed below:

http://orthodoxyouthministry.blogspot.com/2008/12/twilight-review-for-parentsyouth.html
Logged
SolEX01
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 10,193


WWW
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2009, 12:42:27 AM »

In an Interview given to the Times (UK), Stephanie Meyer mentions how her novels are not intended to be Mormon Propaganda; however, her own moral code shaped the novels.

Quote
Meyer insists that she does not consciously intend her novels to be Mormon propaganda, promoting the virtues of sexual abstinence and spiritual purity; but she acknowledges that her writing is shaped by the values she learnt from her family and the church. “I don’t think my books are going to be really graphic or dark, because of who I am,” she said. “There’s always going to be a lot of light in my stories.”

source

I feel I respected the OP's desire not to delve into the literary quality of the Twilight series; however, if the intent of Twilight is to convince people that vampires are demonic representatives on Earth, then I express the opinions listed in the thread.  I don't care about the Twilight series any more than I care about Harry Potter.  Having said that, I will respond to subsequent replies with the hope that my participation in this thread returns to zero.   Smiley
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 12:56:40 AM by SolEX01 » Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2009, 12:45:14 AM »

I'm sure than people can be convinced that they are vamps or werewolves, but I'm really talking about becoming the real thing. My friend seems to be convinced that the "Twilight" series and supposedly all like literature is revealing something that is in existence; not simply demonic possession or mental illness. She seems to believe that one can become one of the undead or attain the morphing abilities of the werewolf and that people should be warned against reading such literature for fear of being lured into the occult and becoming one of these creatues.

Anne Rice tried to convince the masses that the Vampire Lestat was real; He wasn't.

The Twilight series of novels is written by ... OMG!  Roll Eyes  ... a Mormon

From the first line of her biography:

Quote
Stephenie Meyer's life changed dramatically on June 2, 2003. The stay-at-home mother of three young sons woke up from a dream featuring seemingly real characters that she could not get out of her head.
 

Twilight, from an Orthodox Christian perspective, is reviewed below:

http://orthodoxyouthministry.blogspot.com/2008/12/twilight-review-for-parentsyouth.html

Of course, this is veering away from the purpose of the thread, and I'm not quite sure what your OMG! is concerning the author being Mormon, because these very sensible comments are found in the link above:
Here’s the good news: the books were written by a Mormon woman (Stephenie Meyers) and therefore you won’t find a single curse word, or any sex in the movie (although there are some sexual undertones throughout). What you will find, is an interesting take on abstinence and controlling our passions. For the sake of the greater good of humanity, these vampires have denied their passions- every part of their being is telling them to kill and drink blood! But they refuse to give in and be murderous monsters. It’s extremely hard for Edward initially to even be around Bella because at every moment he wants to kill her. But because he loves her so deeply, he denies his physical yearnings, and over time it becomes easier for them to be closer. The whole story seems to bring attention to the struggles teenagers face in preserving their purity. The author even placed an apple on the front cover reminding us of the temptation faced in the Garden of Eden. When asked about the sexual tension between Bella and Edward, Meyers states, “It’s really just my experience with the world and my experience with passion. When there is restraint involved, there's so much more to it. I think a lot of fiction and movies these days; they're really missing that beginning stage. They skip right past it.”(NPR.org)

So should your teenager see this movie? In my opinion, this movie can be a great chance to have some good discussions with your teenager. Most likely your teenager has already either seen the movie or read the books, or both. Or if they haven’t, all their friends have. Consider going to see this movie with them, or read the books, and then have a good talk with them about it.


 

Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2009, 12:47:56 AM »

I'm sure than people can be convinced that they are vamps or werewolves, but I'm really talking about becoming the real thing. My friend seems to be convinced that the "Twilight" series and supposedly all like literature is revealing something that is in existence; not simply demonic possession or mental illness. She seems to believe that one can become one of the undead or attain the morphing abilities of the werewolf and that people should be warned against reading such literature for fear of being lured into the occult and becoming one of these creatues.

Anne Rice tried to convince the masses that the Vampire Lestat was real; He wasn't.

The Twilight series of novels is written by ... OMG!  Roll Eyes  ... a Mormon

From the first line of her biography:

Quote
Stephenie Meyer's life changed dramatically on June 2, 2003. The stay-at-home mother of three young sons woke up from a dream featuring seemingly real characters that she could not get out of her head.
 

Twilight, from an Orthodox Christian perspective, is reviewed below:

http://orthodoxyouthministry.blogspot.com/2008/12/twilight-review-for-parentsyouth.html

What does Twilight have to do with the possible existence of vrykolakas, wampirs, or werewolves??
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
SolEX01
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 10,193


WWW
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2009, 12:51:23 AM »

Of course, this is veering away from the purpose of the thread, and I'm not quite sure what your OMG! is concerning the author being Mormon, because these very sensible comments are found in the link above:

Well, the OMG! was sarcasm.   angel

Let's remember how the Mormon faith originated with the Angel Moroni and the two, yet undiscovered, golden plates.

So, a stay-at-home mom in Utah sees vampires restraining themselves from drinking blood; subsequently writes 4 books and becomes instant celebrity.   Shocked  Meanwhile, your friend is convinced that vampires and werewolves are real although I've never seen Christ nor the Angel Moroni.   Wink
Logged
SolEX01
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 10,193


WWW
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2009, 12:53:40 AM »

What does Twilight have to do with the possible existence of vrykolakas, wampirs, or werewolves??

To ultimately convince people that they do exist by using vehicles where attractive young actors convincingly portray the roles you list above.

I have said that I believe the above do not exist.  If they exist in your tradition; I will not waste time belaboring the point.
Logged
ms.hoorah
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 866


« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2009, 01:08:04 AM »

The Canadian Psychiatric Journal reported cases of lycanthropy but this was several decades ago.
 
In one case, a young man, was convinced that he was a werewolf.  He was  ingested LSD and strychnine.  He claimed to have seen fur growing on his hands and on his face.  Soon he was overcome by a compulsion to chase after and eat rodents.  He wandered in this delusional state for several days before he was taken for medical care.  He claimed to be possessed by the devil and  insisted that he had unusual powers.  He was diagnosed as schizophrenic.  He was treated with an antipsychotic drug and was discharged  to an outpatient clinic.  After a few visits, he stopped taking the medication and left treatment. 

 
Another “werewolf” patient was admitted to the psych hospital after repeated public displays of bizarre activity including howling at the moon and sleeping in cemeteries.  He was psychotic and diagnosed with schizophrenia.  He was placed on an antipsychotic drugs and exhibited no further symptoms of clinical lycanthropy.


I'm sure than people can be convinced that they are vamps or werewolves, but I'm really talking about becoming the real thing. My friend seems to be convinced that the "Twilight" series and supposedly all like literature is revealing something that is in existence; not simply demonic possession or mental illness. She seems to believe that one can become one of the undead or attain the morphing abilities of the werewolf and that people should be warned against reading such literature for fear of being lured into the occult and becoming one of these creatues.

edit: Or maybe I'm reading something into her comment that isn't there?
It sounds like you have a well-meaning friend.  She believes that the paradigm of dark culture might somehow expose you to the occult or encourage you to experiment with occult activities. 

I have no idea if the books that you are reading are influenced by the occult. If they encourage you to investigate occult practices or question your religious faith, dispose of them.  Why give an invitation to Satan or his demons to enter into your life?
Logged
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 7,817


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2009, 01:13:11 AM »

Here is an excerpt on the subject from my upcoming book, Mystery and Meaning:         

                          BELIEF in VAMPIRES?
   They asked me, “Do you really believe in vampires?”
          I answered:
“I know they exist. They walk amongst us every day. They disguise themselves as human; but in reality, they are houses of demons ensconced in bodies of flesh. But their deeds reveal their true nature; and I observe their evil deeds and recognize them for what they are. So, beware of those that thirst for blood. Beware of those who love war and execution, abortion and euthanasia, and "scientific research" involving the destruction of human life. Beware of those who devise sophisticated weapons of mass destruction and invent modern methods of cruelty and torture. Beware of those who seek financial profit at the expense of the poor, the needy, and the weak. They may appear human, but they are in actuality soulless vampires.”


Selam

Ummm, Gebre, I think Riddikulus was referring to actual, "real" creatures/beings who are said to suck blood, or mutate between human and animal forms depending on whether it is night or day. What you are referring to are folks whose behavior or means of earling a living are predatory and immoral, and analogous to the creatures of legend and fable of which Riddi speaks.

If I'm wrong, Riddi, please correct me.

Yes, LBK, I'm talking about real undead humans and humans that morph into animals; not demons; not wanna be vamps. The real deal!

Yes, I realize that you were asking about the "real deal" so to speak. But the reason I posted my comments is because sometimes we become more concerned with the question literal vampires and werewolves than with the bloodthirsty and murderous forces that walk amongst us in human flesh. We should be more frightened by the human bloodshed that occurs through "legal" wars, "legal" abortion, and such than about the ambiguity of vampires and werewolves as they are portrayed in mythology.

Now, let me step down from my soap box and answer your question as you intended it to be answered. Personally, I agree with Ukiemeister that all these entities are demonic manifestations. Whether they manifest in dreams, visions, or physical life, they are real just the same. I compare these things to UFO phenomena. I believe in UFO's, but I think they are demonic distractions rather than actual alien life forms.

An interesting point regarding this subject is that some Christian theologians have asserted that Nebuchadnezzar suffered from "lycanthropy" when he went temporarily insane. [see Daniel 4:33] W.A Criswell says as much in his commentary on the book of Daniel. Of course Criswell is evangelical, not Orthodox, so I don't necessarily accept his interpretation. But it's interesting.

OK, thanks for indulging me in my previous soap box.

Selam
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 01:14:02 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

“Lord, I say too many uncharitable things about people every day. I say them because they make me look clever. Help me to realize how cheap this is. I am stupid, quite as stupid as the people I ridicule. Help me to stop this selfishness, because I love You dear God." ~ FLANNERY O'CONNOR ~
Rosehip
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 2,760



« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2009, 01:16:47 AM »

My Russian language teacher always told me that some people are "vampires" and the rest of us are "targets". She constantly advised me that the only way to rid oneself of the negative energy received from such vampires was to go home and immediately take a shower. I remember being with one such person, a woman, who was afflicted with some sort of psychiatric illness. She literally kept grabbing  at my face and trying to bite it. Seriously, very sinister. That time I took my language teacher's  advise.
Logged

+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2009, 01:21:36 AM »

What does Twilight have to do with the possible existence of vrykolakas, wampirs, or werewolves??

To ultimately convince people that they do exist by using vehicles where attractive young actors convincingly portray the roles you list above.

I have said that I believe the above do not exist.  If they exist in your tradition; I will not waste time belaboring the point.

If vampires existed solely as they do in the Twilight universe, it would hardly be a concern. Vampires that can enter the sunlight, sparkle, and refuse to consume blood.....are hardly a concern at all.
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2009, 01:49:26 AM »

Of course they aren't real!
I can believe we even have a thread about this!
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 7,817


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2009, 01:50:28 AM »

My Russian language teacher always told me that some people are "vampires" and the rest of us are "targets". She constantly advised me that the only way to rid oneself of the negative energy received from such vampires was to go home and immediately take a shower. I remember being with one such person, a woman, who was afflicted with some sort of psychiatric illness. She literally kept grabbing  at my face and trying to bite it. Seriously, very sinister. That time I took my language teacher's  advise.

I have also heard of "psychic vampires." Psychic vampires are actual people who drain the energy and spirit of others. Some of these people may not even be aware that they are psychic vampires, but they seem to get a thrill or a boost from constantly arguing with or berating others. Have you ever noticed that there are certain people in your life who always leave you feeling discouraged and drained after spending time with them? (Ahh, perhaps there are some psychic vampires amongst us even on this board.) Of course I have also heard claims that some psychic vampires can astral project into other people's subconsciousness and drain their emotional and psychological energy from them.

Now, I'm not saying that I subscribe to any of these theories. But I DO KNOW that we are constantly battling spiritual forces of darkness and evil that assail us in a variety of ways. That's why St. Paul said "we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. " [Ephesians 6]

So, we must guard ourselves from negativity and evil, in whatever forms that negativity and evil manifests. Be it in the form of negative people, negative thoughts, negative actions, negative entertainment, or negative philosophies, we must wed ourselves to positivity and righteousness and flee from evil.



Selam
  
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 01:52:25 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

“Lord, I say too many uncharitable things about people every day. I say them because they make me look clever. Help me to realize how cheap this is. I am stupid, quite as stupid as the people I ridicule. Help me to stop this selfishness, because I love You dear God." ~ FLANNERY O'CONNOR ~
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2009, 01:51:10 AM »

The Canadian Psychiatric Journal reported cases of lycanthropy but this was several decades ago.
 
In one case, a young man, was convinced that he was a werewolf.  He was  ingested LSD and strychnine.  He claimed to have seen fur growing on his hands and on his face.  Soon he was overcome by a compulsion to chase after and eat rodents.  He wandered in this delusional state for several days before he was taken for medical care.  He claimed to be possessed by the devil and  insisted that he had unusual powers.  He was diagnosed as schizophrenic.  He was treated with an antipsychotic drug and was discharged  to an outpatient clinic.  After a few visits, he stopped taking the medication and left treatment. 

 
Another “werewolf” patient was admitted to the psych hospital after repeated public displays of bizarre activity including howling at the moon and sleeping in cemeteries.  He was psychotic and diagnosed with schizophrenia.  He was placed on an antipsychotic drugs and exhibited no further symptoms of clinical lycanthropy.


I'm sure than people can be convinced that they are vamps or werewolves, but I'm really talking about becoming the real thing. My friend seems to be convinced that the "Twilight" series and supposedly all like literature is revealing something that is in existence; not simply demonic possession or mental illness. She seems to believe that one can become one of the undead or attain the morphing abilities of the werewolf and that people should be warned against reading such literature for fear of being lured into the occult and becoming one of these creatues.

edit: Or maybe I'm reading something into her comment that isn't there?
It sounds like you have a well-meaning friend.  She believes that the paradigm of dark culture might somehow expose you to the occult or encourage you to experiment with occult activities. 

I have no idea if the books that you are reading are influenced by the occult. If they encourage you to investigate occult practices or question your religious faith, dispose of them.  Why give an invitation to Satan or his demons to enter into your life?

Thanks for your concern, mshoorah, but there is no need. And I'm sure my friend is well-meaning; if not a little bit of an alarmist who is worried that my granddaughters will rush off to join some occultic group from reading the Twilight series. She was paranoid about the Harry Potter books, too. Funny thing is, though my girls loved HP, they aren't interested in the Twilight books because they have been put off by the Hollywood hype. Nanna is the vampire fan in our family.  angel
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2009, 02:00:37 AM »

Here is an excerpt on the subject from my upcoming book, Mystery and Meaning:         

                          BELIEF in VAMPIRES?
   They asked me, “Do you really believe in vampires?”
          I answered:
“I know they exist. They walk amongst us every day. They disguise themselves as human; but in reality, they are houses of demons ensconced in bodies of flesh. But their deeds reveal their true nature; and I observe their evil deeds and recognize them for what they are. So, beware of those that thirst for blood. Beware of those who love war and execution, abortion and euthanasia, and "scientific research" involving the destruction of human life. Beware of those who devise sophisticated weapons of mass destruction and invent modern methods of cruelty and torture. Beware of those who seek financial profit at the expense of the poor, the needy, and the weak. They may appear human, but they are in actuality soulless vampires.”


Selam

Ummm, Gebre, I think Riddikulus was referring to actual, "real" creatures/beings who are said to suck blood, or mutate between human and animal forms depending on whether it is night or day. What you are referring to are folks whose behavior or means of earling a living are predatory and immoral, and analogous to the creatures of legend and fable of which Riddi speaks.

If I'm wrong, Riddi, please correct me.

Yes, LBK, I'm talking about real undead humans and humans that morph into animals; not demons; not wanna be vamps. The real deal!

Yes, I realize that you were asking about the "real deal" so to speak. But the reason I posted my comments is because sometimes we become more concerned with the question literal vampires and werewolves than with the bloodthirsty and murderous forces that walk amongst us in human flesh. We should be more frightened by the human bloodshed that occurs through "legal" wars, "legal" abortion, and such than about the ambiguity of vampires and werewolves as they are portrayed in mythology.

Yes, Gebre, I understood the metaphor, and I tend to agree with you. However, literary vampires can serve a purpose, I think, as all mythology and lore does; to alert us to very human foibles that are so uniquely amplified in the vampire *hero*.

Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2009, 02:01:33 AM »

Of course they aren't real!
I can believe we even have a thread about this!

Just as well you can believe it, because it's true!!  laugh laugh
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2009, 02:04:34 AM »

Of course they aren't real!
I can believe we even have a thread about this!

Just as well you can believe it, because it's true!!  laugh laugh

The vampires made me do it. Cheesy
No wonder I've never liked garlic prawns.
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2009, 02:05:16 AM »

Of course they aren't real!
I can believe we even have a thread about this!

Just as well you can believe it, because it's true!!  laugh laugh

The vampires made me do it. Cheesy
No wonder I've never liked garlic prawns.

 laugh
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 7,817


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2009, 02:30:48 AM »

Does anyone know of any Orthodox Fathers that attribute Nebechadnezzar's period of insanity to lycanthropy?

Selam
Logged

“Lord, I say too many uncharitable things about people every day. I say them because they make me look clever. Help me to realize how cheap this is. I am stupid, quite as stupid as the people I ridicule. Help me to stop this selfishness, because I love You dear God." ~ FLANNERY O'CONNOR ~
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2009, 02:34:49 AM »

I don't know about those, but zombies definitely are! Wink
Logged
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2009, 02:49:08 AM »

I don't know about those, but zombies definitely are! Wink

Discriminate against vampires and werewolves much?? Tongue


I kid, I kid....
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2009, 02:51:01 AM »

I don't know about those, but zombies definitely are! Wink

 laugh
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 7,817


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2009, 02:53:30 AM »

I don't know about those, but zombies definitely are! Wink

 laugh

I still don't get the joke. Huh Forgive me for being slow. Embarrassed

Selam
Logged

“Lord, I say too many uncharitable things about people every day. I say them because they make me look clever. Help me to realize how cheap this is. I am stupid, quite as stupid as the people I ridicule. Help me to stop this selfishness, because I love You dear God." ~ FLANNERY O'CONNOR ~
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2009, 03:07:51 AM »

I don't know about those, but zombies definitely are! Wink

 laugh

I still don't get the joke. Huh Forgive me for being slow. Embarrassed

Selam

Gebre, Ortho_cat is answering the subject question. He's replying that vampires and weres aren't real, but zombie are. Apparently he has some experience of zombies!   Wink
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian
Posts: 6,670



« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2009, 03:09:24 AM »

Gebre, Ortho_cat is answering the subject question. He's replying that vampires and weres aren't real, but zombie are. Apparently he has some experience of zombies!

Well, that shouldn't be a issue for most posters on this forum, since all Orthodox Christians believe in a physical resurrection of the dead.
Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2009, 03:32:29 AM »

Gebre, Ortho_cat is answering the subject question. He's replying that vampires and weres aren't real, but zombie are. Apparently he has some experience of zombies!

Well, that shouldn't be a issue for most posters on this forum, since all Orthodox Christians believe in a physical resurrection of the dead.

And, of course, vampires resurrect, too.
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 9,099


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2009, 03:59:02 AM »

Gawd, I feel old. Vampires and werewolves happen to be the flavor of the month at the moment (no offence, Riddi, I know you're simply asking after your friend). Go back 15 or more years ago, and it was aliens a la X-files. Go back further still, and it was creatures from the Black Lagoon and other mutants of the atomic age. Etc. Etc.

I bet that if internet forums were around in past generations, what's been expressed here would fit in very nicely with that particular spirit of the age. Only the type of deviant critter du jour would change.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 03:59:59 AM by LBK » Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2009, 04:16:33 AM »

Gawd, I feel old. Vampires and werewolves happen to be the flavor of the month at the moment (no offence, Riddi, I know you're simply asking after your friend). Go back 15 or more years ago, and it was aliens a la X-files. Go back further still, and it was creatures from the Black Lagoon and other mutants of the atomic age. Etc. Etc.

I bet that if internet forums were around in past generations, what's been expressed here would fit in very nicely with that particular spirit of the age. Only the type of deviant critter du jour would change.

 laugh I think you would be right. But I do think that these "occult warnings" that go up with the fantasy genre is more recent, though. No doubt, it's heightened with the inception of the internet, but this paranoia is certainly something foreign; to me, at least. Used to be that one simply read what one enjoyed without feeling that one should be defending their choice of literature.
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 9,099


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2009, 05:09:58 AM »

The more things change, the more they stay the same. This is but one example:

German expressionist cinema of the 1920s, such as the films of Fritz Lang, was renowned for works such as Metropolis and Nosferatu, the latter being just as unnervingly creepy even now. Yet, even when these films were first released, there were howls of protest about their "demonic" character.
Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2009, 05:28:03 AM »

That is interesting, LBK.
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 9,099


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2009, 05:38:43 AM »

That is interesting, LBK.

Knowing some history is a very useful thing, Riddi.  It can answer so many questions. Smiley
Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2009, 06:07:23 AM »

That is interesting, LBK.

Knowing some history is a very useful thing, Riddi.  It can answer so many questions. Smiley

What do you mean knowing some history!? I've lived most of it!  Grin
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
basilthefool
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Holy Orthodox Metropolis of Boston (HOCNA)
Posts: 84


htfulcher@comcast.net
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2009, 07:42:56 AM »

That is interesting, LBK.

Knowing some history is a very useful thing, Riddi.  It can answer so many questions. Smiley

What do you mean knowing some history!? I've lived most of it!  Grin
Really? I thought I was the only one. My daughter and I were watching the Romer history of Byzantium, and after Romer described the beauty of the city and the awe it caused those who visitied it for the first time, she looked at tme and asked me if people really reacted that way - i.e., way back then, did I also think it was that beautiful.
Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2009, 07:52:44 AM »

That is interesting, LBK.

Knowing some history is a very useful thing, Riddi.  It can answer so many questions. Smiley

What do you mean knowing some history!? I've lived most of it!  Grin
Really? I thought I was the only one. My daughter and I were watching the Romer history of Byzantium, and after Romer described the beauty of the city and the awe it caused those who visitied it for the first time, she looked at tme and asked me if people really reacted that way - i.e., way back then, did I also think it was that beautiful.

 laugh
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,841


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2009, 09:08:29 AM »

Of course they aren't real!
I can believe we even have a thread about this!

Just as well you can believe it, because it's true!!  laugh laugh

The vampires made me do it. Cheesy
No wonder I've never liked garlic prawns.

After all this time, and so many posts, you've found a subject you can't believe is being discussed?  Really?

That said, I don't believe that there are vampires or werewolves, but then again I do believe that demons have thrown people across a room, so maybe I should...
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Heorhij
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576



WWW
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2009, 12:03:22 PM »

I believe the Addams family most certainly exists. I would love to meet them - anyone knows the address or phone number?
Logged

Love never fails.
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2009, 02:40:38 PM »

You rang?    Kiss
Logged
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,410


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2009, 02:44:11 PM »

I don't believe there are creatures out there who are (un)dead and need to drink the blood of the living in order to survive.

I do, however, believe in so-called psychic vampires whose mental well-being seems to depend on wreaking havoc on the emotional states of those around them.  I work with two of them.  Basically, if you're unhappy, they're happy and if you're happy, they'll do whatever it takes to make you unhappy.  Very exhausting, both physically and emotionally.

Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 11,327



WWW
« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2009, 03:00:33 PM »


^ There are simply too many of these "psychic vampires"! 

They are at work, they are at church....they are everywhere!

What gets me is how these people can come to church....and then do nothing but wreak havoc in the parish.

I cannot tell you how many times I have come home from Liturgy and been absolutely physically exhausted.

On another note, I once had a conversation with an Orthodox priest who actually dealt with the "other world" entities.  He told me about exorcisms, fighting off demons, etc.  He even told me that every Saturday evening he goes to his church and prays that the demons leave his parishioners alone.  He walks the perimeter of his church praying, and then asks that angels get "posted" to guard the church throughout the night up until the faithful leave after Liturgy.

He adopted a dog who could sniff out "evil".  She was most helpful to him in his work.  Apparently she would snarl at things invisible....and betray their presence.  One day he came home and found her all beaten up and bloody on the floor.  Apparently when he was at work, the demons took out their anger on her.  She survived thankfully.

I found the conversation fascinating.  After all, I was speaking with an Orthodox priest, not a ghost-buster....and yet, it left me feeling uncomfortable.  I like to believe that God watches over us....and in general, we don't have to deal with these "demons" on a daily basis.  Sure, we get tempted almost every minute of every day...as to what we do, what we say...how we act....but, actual demons trying to do us ill.....just leaves me uncomfortable.

I leave the "other world" up to my guardian angel.  I am sure he/she will take care of any other-worldly entity that comes near me!  Besides, I always wear my Cross...

It's always best to be wary....but, not afraid.  No?


Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
ms.hoorah
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 866


« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2009, 04:38:41 PM »

On another note, I once had a conversation with an Orthodox priest who actually dealt with the "other world" entities.  He told me about exorcisms, fighting off demons, etc.  He even told me that every Saturday evening he goes to his church and prays that the demons leave his parishioners alone.  He walks the perimeter of his church praying, and then asks that angels get "posted" to guard the church throughout the night up until the faithful leave after Liturgy.

He adopted a dog who could sniff out "evil".  She was most helpful to him in his work.  Apparently she would snarl at things invisible....and betray their presence.  One day he came home and found her all beaten up and bloody on the floor.  Apparently when he was at work, the demons took out their anger on her.  She survived thankfully.

I found the conversation fascinating.  After all, I was speaking with an Orthodox priest, not a ghost-buster....and yet, it left me feeling uncomfortable.  I like to believe that God watches over us....and in general, we don't have to deal with these "demons" on a daily basis.  Sure, we get tempted almost every minute of every day...as to what we do, what we say...how we act....but, actual demons trying to do us ill.....just leaves me uncomfortable.

I leave the "other world" up to my guardian angel.  I am sure he/she will take care of any other-worldly entity that comes near me!  Besides, I always wear my Cross...

It's always best to be wary....but, not afraid.  No?
Thank you for this story or perhaps, maybe not..... Until I read this, I was certain that my dog was crazy. The hair on her back stands straight up and she growls and barks at nothing that anyone else can see.  More disturbingly, three years ago she followed an invisible something out of the bedroom area, down the stairs, across the first floor, and into a corner while growling and barking.  Sometimes she refuses to go down to the spooky basement with me.

I have my old house blessed every Theophany and lots of icons are placed everywhere....maybe I’ll get a lot more.  Wink
Logged
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,169



« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2009, 05:13:49 PM »

All I can say is that when I was much younger, I read the Exorcist. Scary stuff but fiction, right? Then, I read the preface wherein Blatty lays out a very convincing case for demonic possession. Since then I have been convinced that demonic forces and persons exist. I take evil vs. good literature seriously and rejoice when evil is defeated. While I know that I must rely solely on the Triune God, the saints and/or guardian angels to keep me safe, I take literature such as Potter, Narnia, Dark is Rising and the Ring Trilogy as entertaining reminders of this dark and frightening reality. I do have a problem with vampires and werewolves in literature, however, as most depictions paint tragic characters who are not evil but cursed. If they exist, I think that they would be demons or persons possessed of demons.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 7,817


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2009, 06:49:32 PM »

^^^ The above three posts by Liza, Ms.hoorah, and Secondchance are all excellent, and I agree with them 100%!

Selam
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 06:50:50 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

“Lord, I say too many uncharitable things about people every day. I say them because they make me look clever. Help me to realize how cheap this is. I am stupid, quite as stupid as the people I ridicule. Help me to stop this selfishness, because I love You dear God." ~ FLANNERY O'CONNOR ~
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2009, 06:58:40 PM »

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to comment. Some very interesting thoughts!
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 7,817


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #57 on: November 05, 2009, 07:25:53 PM »

I'd still like to know if anyone has any thoughts about Nebuchadnezzar and lycanthropy.

Selam
Logged

“Lord, I say too many uncharitable things about people every day. I say them because they make me look clever. Help me to realize how cheap this is. I am stupid, quite as stupid as the people I ridicule. Help me to stop this selfishness, because I love You dear God." ~ FLANNERY O'CONNOR ~
ms.hoorah
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 866


« Reply #58 on: November 05, 2009, 08:19:01 PM »

I'd still like to know if anyone has any thoughts about Nebuchadnezzar and lycanthropy.

Selam
Perhaps the association of Nebuchadnezzar with lycanthropy began with the werewolf mass hysteria around the Middle Ages.  Anyone with mental illness was considered to be demonically possessed. Lycanthropy was the diagnosis of King George III who suffered from mental illness.

It could also be a metaphorical association.  King Nebuchadnezzar and werewolves are metaphors for evil, social ills, depravation, and degeneration.  Nebuchadnezzar was dangerous, cruel, bestial, and mad (crazy) like a werewolf. 

Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #59 on: November 05, 2009, 08:50:17 PM »

All I can say is that when I was much younger, I read the Exorcist. Scary stuff but fiction, right? Then, I read the preface wherein Blatty lays out a very convincing case for demonic possession. Since then I have been convinced that demonic forces and persons exist. I take evil vs. good literature seriously and rejoice when evil is defeated. While I know that I must rely solely on the Triune God, the saints and/or guardian angels to keep me safe, I take literature such as Potter, Narnia, Dark is Rising and the Ring Trilogy as entertaining reminders of this dark and frightening reality. I do have a problem with vampires and werewolves in literature, however, as most depictions paint tragic characters who are not evil but cursed. If they exist, I think that they would be demons or persons possessed of demons.

I have been thinking about this. Films and books that focus on "demonic" activity are one of the horror genre that I have mostly avoided. There are other sub-genre, so to speak that I can't stomach; axe-murderers and the like, and others I can't think of at the moment.

While I do think that there are moral lessons to be learned from literature or films containing mythological creatures, tragically cursed or not, and magical settings which are obviously not correlated to the real world, I do feel that something as close to the real thing as demonic themes is more sinister than I wish to enjoy.

I know people who love all this sort of thing, and I'm not suggesting that anyone should agree with my decision, because I believe that no one can tell anyone else how literature, etc affects them. One man's meat is another's poison. It's just my personal choice not to go there.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 08:51:33 PM by Riddikulus » Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
ms.hoorah
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 866


« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2009, 11:01:53 PM »

To Gebre,

Here are many causes of excessive hair growth that might cause one to exhibit excessive hair growth, BUT could possibly spontaneously resolve.....and certainly, if Nebuchadnezzar's affliction was sent by God,  He could resolve it.

-Erythrokeratoderma variabilis-brownish, hyperkeratotic plaques
-anorexia/malnutrition-lanugo growth but this wouldn’t look like a werewolf’s fur
-CNS disorders/traumatic brain injury-pituitary dysfunction
-dermatomyositis-skin inflammation
-cutaneous porphyria (inherited or acquired disorder which can manifests as skin disorders)
-paraneoplastic syndrome-symptoms assoc. with malignancy
-ingestion of drugs/substances which increase androgens
-transient pituitary dysfunction
-transient hypothalamic dysfunction
-Tuberculosis-carrier state causes excessive hair in ears, eyebrows, and eyelashes
-hirsutism (adrenal gland dysfunction)

Wasn't there a stone block located, at an archeological temple site, that celebrated Nebuchadnezzar's recovery from his 7 year illness?

Here are interesting sites.
http://davidfish.info/ot%20history%20spring%202006/Boanthropy.pdf
http://www.livius.org/ct-cz/cyrus_I/babylon04.html


« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 11:31:17 PM by ms.hoorah » Logged
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 7,817


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #61 on: November 05, 2009, 11:06:15 PM »

All I can say is that when I was much younger, I read the Exorcist. Scary stuff but fiction, right? Then, I read the preface wherein Blatty lays out a very convincing case for demonic possession. Since then I have been convinced that demonic forces and persons exist. I take evil vs. good literature seriously and rejoice when evil is defeated. While I know that I must rely solely on the Triune God, the saints and/or guardian angels to keep me safe, I take literature such as Potter, Narnia, Dark is Rising and the Ring Trilogy as entertaining reminders of this dark and frightening reality. I do have a problem with vampires and werewolves in literature, however, as most depictions paint tragic characters who are not evil but cursed. If they exist, I think that they would be demons or persons possessed of demons.

I have been thinking about this. Films and books that focus on "demonic" activity are one of the horror genre that I have mostly avoided. There are other sub-genre, so to speak that I can't stomach; axe-murderers and the like, and others I can't think of at the moment.

While I do think that there are moral lessons to be learned from literature or films containing mythological creatures, tragically cursed or not, and magical settings which are obviously not correlated to the real world, I do feel that something as close to the real thing as demonic themes is more sinister than I wish to enjoy.

I know people who love all this sort of thing, and I'm not suggesting that anyone should agree with my decision, because I believe that no one can tell anyone else how literature, etc affects them. One man's meat is another's poison. It's just my personal choice not to go there.

I think as with all things, discernment is the key. We must ask ourselves why we are fascinated with such things, and whether these genres of entertainment are beneficial or detrimental to us in particular.

Those outside of the Church are open targets for the devil, and he will use fantasy and horror to inundate them with superstition, paranoia, and the inculcation of an unsound worldview. But even Orthodox Christians can develop an unhealthy fascination with the supernatural. So we have to be careful.

Personally, I hate the gory, slasher type horror movies. They seem inane and gratuitously violent. But movies based on true stories that involve the supernatural always intrigue me. I remember that I used to be obsessed with UFO phenomena. The movie Fire in the Sky really disturbed me for a while, because I kept trying to find a rational or theological explanation for the circumstnaces and events portrayed in the film. It affected me in a negative way, and caused me a lot of doubts.

I think the best approach is to recognize that evil is real, that it manifests itself in various ways, and that perhaps the most dangerous form of evil is that which is disguised as light. As far as entertainment goes, we always have to interpret it through the lens of Orthodox Truth.

Thats my two cents.

Selam
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 11:07:22 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

“Lord, I say too many uncharitable things about people every day. I say them because they make me look clever. Help me to realize how cheap this is. I am stupid, quite as stupid as the people I ridicule. Help me to stop this selfishness, because I love You dear God." ~ FLANNERY O'CONNOR ~
ms.hoorah
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 866


« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2009, 12:03:53 AM »

Daniel 4(13-15)
13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
15 Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:
----------------
I always thought that God gave Nebuchadnezzer a vision of the severe mental illness that he was going to receive because he would not repent/end his sinfullness. Nebuchadnezzer did not repent and the vision was fulfilled.  He began to believe that he was a beast in the grass (ox/cow). 
--------------------
Daniel 4 (33)
The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.

Maybe the werewolf assoc. started because of the word "claws"?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 12:23:37 AM by ms.hoorah » Logged
ms.hoorah
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 866


« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2009, 01:07:48 AM »

Gebre,

This is my final answer:  The story that Nebuchadnezzar suffered from lycanthropy was possibly started by the International Vegetarian Union.  (Nebuchadnezzar was a powerful, bestial man and he only ate vegetables.)  Wink
Logged
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 7,817


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2009, 01:20:45 AM »

I always enjoy your comments ms. hoorah. Very informative and educational. I'm so glad you're on this forum! Smiley

Regarding LYCANTHROPY, here are some interesting comments from Protestant theologian W.A. Criswell:

         "Lycanthropy is a strange malady indeed! When we look up the word itself, 'lycanthropy' is made up of the Greek word 'lukos' meaning 'wolf' and 'anthropos' meaning 'man.' Lycanthropy technically would, therefore, refer to a man who thinks of himself as a wolf.
        Long ago the power of transforming others into wild beasts was attributed not only ot malignant sorcerers, but also to Christian saints. A Russian story tells how Peter and Paul turned an impious husband and wife into bears. St. Patrick of Ireland was said to have transformed Vereticus, king of Wales, into a wolf. And St. Natalis cursed an illustrious Irish family with the result that each member of it was doomed to be a wolf for seven years. The fearful aberration also enters into the traditons of Europe, especially in legends of the werewolf. Either by curse or by choice, a man could turn himself into a wolf and then eat human flesh and drink human blood. Such a man was a werewolf and hid in dens. In our own American culture we have the tradition of 'beauty and the beast.' I have seen movies advertised with a frightful beast holding a beautiful girl in his arms. That tradition is common in the cultural life of all humanity. And it comes from this disease, from this psychological illusion called 'lycanthropy.' King Nebuchadnezzar was to be turned into a beast, insane for seven years.
       It is not unusual for a king to be insane. Many kings have been schizophrenic. They were one thing one day and another thing another day. The madness of kings is part of history. One example is Charles VI of France. Another is Christian VIII of Denmark. Still another is George III of England. Another is the mad king of Bavaria. You can write books on the madness of kings. And this is the judgement of God upon Nebuchadnezzar, 'lycanthropy.' 'And it will continue,' says the prophet, 'until you get right, until you acknowledge the true God of all the heavens.'"
[from Expository Sermons on the Book of Daniel Volume 3: Chapter One: "Lycanthropy"]

Selam
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 01:23:25 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

“Lord, I say too many uncharitable things about people every day. I say them because they make me look clever. Help me to realize how cheap this is. I am stupid, quite as stupid as the people I ridicule. Help me to stop this selfishness, because I love You dear God." ~ FLANNERY O'CONNOR ~
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 7,817


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2009, 01:32:33 AM »

Gebre,

This is my final answer:  The story that Nebuchadnezzar suffered from lycanthropy was possibly started by the International Vegetarian Union.  (Nebuchadnezzar was a powerful, bestial man and he only ate vegetables.)  Wink


^HA! Cheesy

Then again, maybe this is because he learned from Daniel's example. Don't forget that Daniel and his compatriots refused to eat the king's meat, but ate a vegetarian diet. Apparrently, a vegetarian diet leads to wisdom. Wink [Daniel 1:11-17]

Selam
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 01:33:07 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

“Lord, I say too many uncharitable things about people every day. I say them because they make me look clever. Help me to realize how cheap this is. I am stupid, quite as stupid as the people I ridicule. Help me to stop this selfishness, because I love You dear God." ~ FLANNERY O'CONNOR ~
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 9,099


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2009, 01:32:54 AM »

      It is not unusual for a king to be insane. Many kings have been schizophrenic. They were one thing one day and another thing another day. The madness of kings is part of history. One example is Charles VI of France. Another is Christian VIII of Denmark. Still another is George III of England. Another is the mad king of Bavaria. You can write books on the madness of kings.

King George III suffered from porphyria, an inherited metabolic disorder which, if left untreated, leads to a buildup of certain toxins in the brain, which affect one's mental and cognitive capacity. His story is beautifully told in the film The Madness of King George (starring the late Nigel Hawthorne as the king, and Helen Mirren as his queen), which was released some 20 years ago.

Other cases of "royal madness" can often be explained as a consequence of the historic insistence of  royal houses for their progeny to marry among themselves, thus greatly increasing the chances of inherited conditions such as porphyria becoming manifest.
Logged
Riddikulus
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,788



« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2009, 03:49:17 AM »

All I can say is that when I was much younger, I read the Exorcist. Scary stuff but fiction, right? Then, I read the preface wherein Blatty lays out a very convincing case for demonic possession. Since then I have been convinced that demonic forces and persons exist. I take evil vs. good literature seriously and rejoice when evil is defeated. While I know that I must rely solely on the Triune God, the saints and/or guardian angels to keep me safe, I take literature such as Potter, Narnia, Dark is Rising and the Ring Trilogy as entertaining reminders of this dark and frightening reality. I do have a problem with vampires and werewolves in literature, however, as most depictions paint tragic characters who are not evil but cursed. If they exist, I think that they would be demons or persons possessed of demons.

I have been thinking about this. Films and books that focus on "demonic" activity are one of the horror genre that I have mostly avoided. There are other sub-genre, so to speak that I can't stomach; axe-murderers and the like, and others I can't think of at the moment.

While I do think that there are moral lessons to be learned from literature or films containing mythological creatures, tragically cursed or not, and magical settings which are obviously not correlated to the real world, I do feel that something as close to the real thing as demonic themes is more sinister than I wish to enjoy.

I know people who love all this sort of thing, and I'm not suggesting that anyone should agree with my decision, because I believe that no one can tell anyone else how literature, etc affects them. One man's meat is another's poison. It's just my personal choice not to go there.

I think as with all things, discernment is the key. We must ask ourselves why we are fascinated with such things, and whether these genres of entertainment are beneficial or detrimental to us in particular.

Indeed. I feel that if I leave a book or film dissatisfied with the moral outcome, I've been gipped!  laugh I don't insist on a "happy ever after" ending, but I do hate to come to the end of story to discover that evil has triumphed. 

Quote
Those outside of the Church are open targets for the devil, and he will use fantasy and horror to inundate them with superstition, paranoia, and the inculcation of an unsound worldview. But even Orthodox Christians can develop an unhealthy fascination with the supernatural. So we have to be careful.

Very true, and I think the problem with plethora of "demonic" literature and films that we have available at the moment is that there is a tendancy for people to either become skeptical, or immune to fear, considering it to be just fantasy. Of course, what is in the film or book is fantasy, but there might be correllation with real life "dark side" stuff. 

Quote
Personally, I hate the gory, slasher type horror movies. They seem inane and gratuitously violent. But movies based on true stories that involve the supernatural always intrigue me. I remember that I used to be obsessed with UFO phenomena. The movie Fire in the Sky really disturbed me for a while, because I kept trying to find a rational or theological explanation for the circumstnaces and events portrayed in the film. It affected me in a negative way, and caused me a lot of doubts.

I think the best approach is to recognize that evil is real, that it manifests itself in various ways, and that perhaps the most dangerous form of evil is that which is disguised as light. As far as entertainment goes, we always have to interpret it through the lens of Orthodox Truth.

Thats my two cents.

Selam

And a very useful two cents, Gebre. Smiley
Logged

I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
ms.hoorah
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 866


« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2009, 08:46:36 AM »

Gebre,

This is my final answer:  The story that Nebuchadnezzar suffered from lycanthropy was possibly started by the International Vegetarian Union.  (Nebuchadnezzar was a powerful, bestial man and he only ate vegetables.)  Wink


^HA! Cheesy

Then again, maybe this is because he learned from Daniel's example. Don't forget that Daniel and his compatriots refused to eat the king's meat, but ate a vegetarian diet. Apparrently, a vegetarian diet leads to wisdom. Wink [Daniel 1:11-17]

Selam
Another example for why people should fast!   Nebuchadnezzar was healed (mentally and spiritually) after he fasted (his portion was in the grass) and repented. 
Logged
88Devin12
Moderated
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,841



« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2009, 11:37:54 AM »

Quote
the Trickster has far more potent weapons at his disposal.
Ok I feel bad now... when I saw this comment my thoughts immediately went to last nights Supernatural episode...

As a note though, I normally don't ever watch supernatural as it seems to make Christian beliefs in God/Satan and Angels and Demons into something more like Greek/Roman mythology. Though I watched it last night because it was spoofing other TV shows like Friends, Grey's Anatomy, CSI and others...
Logged
monkvasyl
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: UOC 0f USA
Posts: 653



« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2009, 12:11:34 PM »

On another note, I once had a conversation with an Orthodox priest who actually dealt with the "other world" entities.  He told me about exorcisms, fighting off demons, etc.  He even told me that every Saturday evening he goes to his church and prays that the demons leave his parishioners alone.  He walks the perimeter of his church praying, and then asks that angels get "posted" to guard the church throughout the night up until the faithful leave after Liturgy.

He adopted a dog who could sniff out "evil".  She was most helpful to him in his work.  Apparently she would snarl at things invisible....and betray their presence.  One day he came home and found her all beaten up and bloody on the floor.  Apparently when he was at work, the demons took out their anger on her.  She survived thankfully.

I found the conversation fascinating.  After all, I was speaking with an Orthodox priest, not a ghost-buster....and yet, it left me feeling uncomfortable.  I like to believe that God watches over us....and in general, we don't have to deal with these "demons" on a daily basis.  Sure, we get tempted almost every minute of every day...as to what we do, what we say...how we act....but, actual demons trying to do us ill.....just leaves me uncomfortable.

I leave the "other world" up to my guardian angel.  I am sure he/she will take care of any other-worldly entity that comes near me!  Besides, I always wear my Cross...

It's always best to be wary....but, not afraid.  No?
Thank you for this story or perhaps, maybe not..... Until I read this, I was certain that my dog was crazy. The hair on her back stands straight up and she growls and barks at nothing that anyone else can see.  More disturbingly, three years ago she followed an invisible something out of the bedroom area, down the stairs, across the first floor, and into a corner while growling and barking.  Sometimes she refuses to go down to the spooky basement with me.

I have my old house blessed every Theophany and lots of icons are placed everywhere....maybe I’ll get a lot more.  Wink

Well, I had a dog that had to have seen something heavenly.  Many, many years ago..I was preparing to go to church on a Sunday morning, I'm not a morning person so I was sort of in a vegetable state.  I called my dog to come to me so I could pat her, but she refused.  Instead she sat in the middle of the room, facing my icons.  She had her eyes fixed on my Trinity icon.  She sat there for a 1/2 hr before finally coming to my repeated commands.  Some would say she was looking at either the burning icon lamp or the sun reflecting off the icons.  Neither was the case, since I had not lit the lamp and it was a dark/overcast morning.  What she did had a profound effect on me...in her own way she was telling me that I SHOULD have been preparing myself for Sunday Liturgy by praying.  After that I affectionately called her my "Abbess".
Logged

The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,410


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2009, 01:11:33 PM »

On another note, I once had a conversation with an Orthodox priest who actually dealt with the "other world" entities.  He told me about exorcisms, fighting off demons, etc.  He even told me that every Saturday evening he goes to his church and prays that the demons leave his parishioners alone.  He walks the perimeter of his church praying, and then asks that angels get "posted" to guard the church throughout the night up until the faithful leave after Liturgy.

He adopted a dog who could sniff out "evil".  She was most helpful to him in his work.  Apparently she would snarl at things invisible....and betray their presence.  One day he came home and found her all beaten up and bloody on the floor.  Apparently when he was at work, the demons took out their anger on her.  She survived thankfully.

I found the conversation fascinating.  After all, I was speaking with an Orthodox priest, not a ghost-buster....and yet, it left me feeling uncomfortable.  I like to believe that God watches over us....and in general, we don't have to deal with these "demons" on a daily basis.  Sure, we get tempted almost every minute of every day...as to what we do, what we say...how we act....but, actual demons trying to do us ill.....just leaves me uncomfortable.

I leave the "other world" up to my guardian angel.  I am sure he/she will take care of any other-worldly entity that comes near me!  Besides, I always wear my Cross...

It's always best to be wary....but, not afraid.  No?
Thank you for this story or perhaps, maybe not..... Until I read this, I was certain that my dog was crazy. The hair on her back stands straight up and she growls and barks at nothing that anyone else can see.  More disturbingly, three years ago she followed an invisible something out of the bedroom area, down the stairs, across the first floor, and into a corner while growling and barking.  Sometimes she refuses to go down to the spooky basement with me.

I have my old house blessed every Theophany and lots of icons are placed everywhere....maybe I’ll get a lot more.  Wink

Well, I had a dog that had to have seen something heavenly.  Many, many years ago..I was preparing to go to church on a Sunday morning, I'm not a morning person so I was sort of in a vegetable state.  I called my dog to come to me so I could pat her, but she refused.  Instead she sat in the middle of the room, facing my icons.  She had her eyes fixed on my Trinity icon.  She sat there for a 1/2 hr before finally coming to my repeated commands.  Some would say she was looking at either the burning icon lamp or the sun reflecting off the icons.  Neither was the case, since I had not lit the lamp and it was a dark/overcast morning.  What she did had a profound effect on me...in her own way she was telling me that I SHOULD have been preparing myself for Sunday Liturgy by praying.  After that I affectionately called her my "Abbess".

Our little dog always pauses at the top of the steps in front of the icons we have up there.  She just stops for about three seconds and then goes on her way into our bedroom.  She doesn't look up at the icons or anything, but merely pauses as if to remind me to stop and pray before bedtime.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
ms.hoorah
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 866


« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2009, 04:06:25 PM »

Well, I had a dog that had to have seen something heavenly.  Many, many years ago..I was preparing to go to church on a Sunday morning, I'm not a morning person so I was sort of in a vegetable state.  I called my dog to come to me so I could pat her, but she refused.  Instead she sat in the middle of the room, facing my icons.  She had her eyes fixed on my Trinity icon.  She sat there for a 1/2 hr before finally coming to my repeated commands.  Some would say she was looking at either the burning icon lamp or the sun reflecting off the icons.  Neither was the case, since I had not lit the lamp and it was a dark/overcast morning.  What she did had a profound effect on me...in her own way she was telling me that I SHOULD have been preparing myself for Sunday Liturgy by praying.  After that I affectionately called her my "Abbess".

Our little dog always pauses at the top of the steps in front of the icons we have up there.  She just stops for about three seconds and then goes on her way into our bedroom.  She doesn't look up at the icons or anything, but merely pauses as if to remind me to stop and pray before bedtime.
Oh no!  My dog is irreverent before icons and sees invisible spooky things.  She must be in the first stage of demonic possession.  She must be exercised!   Cheesy 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 04:07:07 PM by ms.hoorah » Logged
Nyssa The Hobbit
Used to be OrthodoxFairyQueen
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian as of 1/10/09
Posts: 394



WWW
« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2009, 02:43:00 AM »

I believe the Addams family most certainly exists. I would love to meet them - anyone knows the address or phone number?

Me, too.  They look like lots of fun to play with (though I wouldn't eat their food).
Logged

Author of "Tojet" (fantasy) and "The Lighthouse" (Gothic), info available at my website URL.
Tags: demons evil superstition 
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.262 seconds with 101 queries.