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Justin Kissel
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« on: October 30, 2009, 07:29:57 PM » |
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I just started reading the book There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind by Antony Flew and Roy Abraham Varghese. The premise of the book is of great interest to me, but I've put off reading it because of the controversy surrounding it, and the controversy surrounding the statements of Flew since 2004 generally. I'm only about 40 pages into the book and already I've found some confusing bits, such Flew identifying himself (or being described as) both a deist and a theist. I guess what I'm making this thread for is, I'm wondering if anyone out there knows more than what I've read on sites like wiki? If you're familiar with Flew, what do you make of his seeming backtracking on some issues, the charge that he is unfamiliar with some of the content of this book, the charge that he does not believe everything written in the book, and so forth? |
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"Change is the process of becoming more like who we are."
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2009, 09:52:36 PM » |
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I thought the title of this thread meant that some guy called Antony managed to fly, and this miracle proves there is a God.
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2009, 10:13:24 PM » |
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That literally made me laugh out loud!  |
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"Change is the process of becoming more like who we are."
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HandmaidenofGod
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2009, 10:20:45 PM » |
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I thought the title of this thread meant that some guy called Antony managed to fly, and this miracle proves there is a God.
LOL! Thank goodness I wasn't drinking anything, or it would have been all over my monitor by now!  |
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"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
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Riddikulus
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 04:51:12 AM » |
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I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.
Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
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Jetavan
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 11:48:07 AM » |
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I just started reading the book There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind by Antony Flew and Roy Abraham Varghese. The premise of the book is of great interest to me, but I've put off reading it because of the controversy surrounding it, and the controversy surrounding the statements of Flew since 2004 generally. I'm only about 40 pages into the book and already I've found some confusing bits, such Flew identifying himself (or being described as) both a deist and a theist. I guess what I'm making this thread for is, I'm wondering if anyone out there knows more than what I've read on sites like wiki? If you're familiar with Flew, what do you make of his seeming backtracking on some issues, the charge that he is unfamiliar with some of the content of this book, the charge that he does not believe everything written in the book, and so forth? I've heard the idea that Flew is rather elderly, and so did not write all of the book, or did not actually agree with everything the co-author (who apparently is a Christian who wants to demonstrate the logicality of theism) wrote in the book. My understanding is that Flew went from atheism to deism, rather than to theism, based on his greater appreciation of the laws of physics and the apparently "fine-tuned" natural constants. |
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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Entscheidungsproblem
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 01:30:41 PM » |
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I just started reading the book There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind by Antony Flew and Roy Abraham Varghese. The premise of the book is of great interest to me, but I've put off reading it because of the controversy surrounding it, and the controversy surrounding the statements of Flew since 2004 generally. I'm only about 40 pages into the book and already I've found some confusing bits, such Flew identifying himself (or being described as) both a deist and a theist. I guess what I'm making this thread for is, I'm wondering if anyone out there knows more than what I've read on sites like wiki? If you're familiar with Flew, what do you make of his seeming backtracking on some issues, the charge that he is unfamiliar with some of the content of this book, the charge that he does not believe everything written in the book, and so forth? I've heard the idea that Flew is rather elderly, and so did not write all of the book, or did not actually agree with everything the co-author (who apparently is a Christian who wants to demonstrate the logicality of theism) wrote in the book. My understanding is that Flew went from atheism to deism, rather than to theism, based on his greater appreciation of the laws of physics and the apparently "fine-tuned" natural constants. I have to agree to a degree with those who object to the book actually being written by Flew. His mental capacity has really deteriorated over the years. Some even go as far to say he has lost the ability to read and comprehend/remember the subject matter. I don't doubt that he is a Deist now, but the presentation of his beliefs lately seem suspect. |
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As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS |
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2009, 02:31:32 AM » |
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Ok, I've finished the book. I still don't know what to make of it as far as the participation of Flew (or lack of participation) in writing the book. I do know that generally the book was fairly sensible, but that the first appendix, written by Roy Abraham Varghese, had some examples in it that I thought were plain silly*. The bulk of the book seemed to be built around a review of theist literature from the past few decades on the arguments for the existence and attributes of God by Swinburne, etc. At the very least I did pick out a few books that sounded like they'd be interesting reading, such as Time and Eternity by Brian Leftow.
* For example, Varghese asked if a marble table, after a million years, could ever become self-aware. No? Then that demonstrates to his satisfaction that matter can't become self-aware without divine intervention. This argument reminded me of young earth creationists who ask questions like "Could two monkeys ever produce a human?"
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"Change is the process of becoming more like who we are."
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