Super Apostolic Bros.
Is St. Andrew Luigi to St. Peter's Mario?
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« on: October 29, 2009, 11:45:44 AM » |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLRue4nwJaANot from an Orthodox point of view, but I think he mostly hits the nail on the head. John Piper may be a Calvinist... but hey, even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
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samkim
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2009, 01:00:22 PM » |
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When I was Presbyterian, i was a huge fan of Piper. Still am.
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주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.
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Sakeneko
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2009, 01:56:08 PM » |
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The "prosperity gospel" basically states that if a person is faithful to God's commands and gives generously to his Church, God will reward him many times over *with earthly prosperity and material awards*. It also largely views any failure to prosper in a material fashion as proof that an individual is in sin. :/ I could say more, but anybody familiar with the Holy Scriptures should recognize it as the purest heresy, and one that is unusually self-serving for those that preach it to encourage their flock to give them lots of money.
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ironsiderodger
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St Eudocia- still in progress.
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2009, 03:09:44 PM » |
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When I was Presbyterian, i was a huge fan of Piper. Still am.
Yeah there's some things I definitely disagree with Piper on, BUT, when somebody appears to love God as much as he does, I shouldn't wonder that every once in a while Calvinistic tradition simply gets overidden. |
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Jetavan
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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2009, 04:12:19 PM » |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLRue4nwJaANot from an Orthodox point of view, but I think he mostly hits the nail on the head. John Piper may be a Calvinist... but hey, even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Or even three times a day, at the end of Daylight Saving Time. |
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
I'm not a witch.
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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sprtslvr1973
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2009, 07:28:52 AM » |
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I was never a Calvinist, at least not a hard line one. However I always kinda liked Piper and and Waher too for that matter. John MacArthur??? Well I will pray for him
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"Into thy hands I commend my spirit"- Luke 23:46
“Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!” - Mark 9:24
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Mexican
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 05:42:13 PM » |
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Of course it's heresy.
This gospel of prosperity also motivated another writer, Max Weber to write an article about why Protestant countries are rich and why Catholic countries are poor.
This ideology fills the doctrine of the Evangelical sects that come south of the border to convert Latin Americans to their heresy. They do the same in Russia. They say our people's economic situation will prosper if we convert to Protestantism, they claim that the USA are wealthy because the pure gospel is followed there instead of the medieval traditions (refering to the Apostolic Churches).
An adaptation of this ideology is taught even by some Catholics. Criticisms against those who promote (some bishops like Onesimo Cepeda of Ecatepec and some RC orders like the Legionaries of Christ), state that during the cold war, they were fervently in favour of Liberation theology preaching Marxism (because of the support they had from the government and the ruling PRI) and that once the political environment changed they suddenly started promoting this gospel of prosperity.
I don't know if this opinion exists among the Orthodox. Probably it exists in the US because of so many former Protestants who join Orthodoxy.
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 05:47:22 PM by Mexican »
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HandmaidenofGod
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2009, 07:04:44 PM » |
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Good video.  |
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"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2009, 09:54:32 PM » |
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Yeah, that video was ON POINT! I read John Piper's book "Desiring God" years ago, and was very edified by it. I think he's one of those Orthodox Christians who just doesn't know it yet.  I mean, he sure seems to understand that the Gospel entails suffering. May God bless this man. "Lord have mercy." Selam |
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"Salvation is free, but not easy. It is completely dependent upon the grace of God, and yet we must work it out with fear and trembling. It is given to all, but only a few find it. We are saved only by His Cross, and yet not without taking up our own." +GMK+
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Ortho_cat
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2009, 11:36:30 PM » |
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Sometimes when I read some modern books or texts regarding theosis it almost seems to me to be a variety of prosperity gospel, i.e. "achieve your true potential".
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zoarthegleaner
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2009, 03:05:18 PM » |
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"... but hey, even a broken clock is correct twice a day".
Its corrective is all relative to what you aim to do with the information...you wouldn't rely upon it to count heartbeats, would you?
john
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Courteous is my name,
and I have always aimed to live up to it.
Grace is also my name,
but when things go wrong
its Courteous whom I blame;
but its Grace who sees me through it.
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sprtslvr1973
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2010, 08:41:07 AM » |
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Sometimes when I read some modern books or texts regarding theosis it almost seems to me to be a variety of prosperity gospel, i.e. "achieve your true potential".
I think you are mistaken |
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"Into thy hands I commend my spirit"- Luke 23:46
“Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!” - Mark 9:24
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Iconodule
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2010, 03:16:07 PM » |
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Sometimes when I read some modern books or texts regarding theosis it almost seems to me to be a variety of prosperity gospel, i.e. "achieve your true potential".
I think you are mistaken Obviously, theosis itself has nothing to do with "prosperity gospel"- the "potential" of theosis has nothing to do with corruptible earthly wealth. However, I have seen books with titles like Theosis: Achieving Your Potential in Christ. While the doctrine contained in the book is not "prosperity gospel," that's a self-help title if I ever saw one. It's a tone we really should avoid. |
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"A Poet a Painter a Musician an Architect: the Man Or Woman who is not one of these is not a Christian." - William Blake
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Ortho_cat
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2010, 03:35:36 PM » |
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Sometimes when I read some modern books or texts regarding theosis it almost seems to me to be a variety of prosperity gospel, i.e. "achieve your true potential".
I think you are mistaken Obviously, theosis itself has nothing to do with "prosperity gospel"- the "potential" of theosis has nothing to do with corruptible earthly wealth. However, I have seen books with titles like Theosis: Achieving Your Potential in Christ. While the doctrine contained in the book is not "prosperity gospel," that's a self-help title if I ever saw one. It's a tone we really should avoid. That may have been the book I was referring to, actually. |
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Ninjaly Awesome
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« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2010, 01:09:13 AM » |
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Has anyone by chance read Hank Hanegraaff's "Christianity in Crisis: 21st Century"? I think he hit the nail right on the head in describing the reason for the heretical prosperity gospel is because it's fueled fueled by another nasty heresy that says faith is a metaphysical force. This is why at the "healing crusades" when someone isn't healed it's because that they didn't have enough of this metaphysical force (aka faith) to cause healing in their situation (yes, I'm imagining many of your jaws dropping at this ridiculous belief, but they absolutely hold to it). Justin Peters, a baptist minister, has gone great lengths to counter this movement: video, part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyvcc9sFWh0video, part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSEP3kkW-XY&feature=relatedvideo, part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPVTiab3TXk&feature=relatedvideo, part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cIHv15OVu0&feature=related |
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饥 渴 慕 义 的 人 有 福 了 ！ 因 为 他 们 必 得 饱 足 。
馬 太 福 音 5:6
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