Author Topic: Original Sin  (Read 290 times)

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Offline Alpo

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Original Sin
« on: June 05, 2015, 12:14:23 PM »
I'm looking for Fathers' take on original/ancestral sin. Primarily first hand sources instead of modern theologians. Any tips are appreciated.
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the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Original Sin
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 12:22:52 PM »
You might want to check out the homilies of St Symeon the New Theologian collected in the book First Created Man. I don't know how easy it is to get the book in Finland, but the book itself is not expensive and well worth reading. If I have time later, I might dig my copy up and post extracts.

Here are the names of the homilies, to give you an idea of the scope:

Quote
Homily 1: The Transgression of Adam and Our Redemption by Jesus Christ
Homily 2: The Blessed State
Homily 10: Adam’s Sin and Our Salvation
Homily 37: The Ancestral Sin and Our Regeneration
Homily 38: The Fall of Adam and the Decrees of God
Homily 45: Adam and the First-Created World
Homily 66: The Banishment and Repentance of Adam and Every Christian
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 12:26:43 PM by Iconodule »

Offline Alpo

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Re: Original Sin
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2015, 02:03:50 PM »
Thanks. Looks interesting. My university's library is fairly extensive when it comes to Orthodox theology so assumingly it has homilies of St. Symeon too.
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Original Sin
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2015, 03:38:52 PM »
Thanks, Iconodule. I completely agree with OP that modern theologians are not the best go-to source on this issue. Too polemical.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Original Sin
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2015, 04:59:56 PM »
I think it'd be uncontroversial to say that passages in Against Heresies by St. Irenaeus were very influential and/or very representative of the language/concepts used by the Greek-speaking early Christians and later Orthodox, including (but not limited to) the following:

3.23.1-8 (creation of humans, sin, salvation)
4.37.1-7 (free will and determinism)
4.38.1-4 (why humans were made being able to sin)
4.39.1-4 (humans can discern good and evil)
5.1.1-3 (sin and redemption)
5.3.1-3 (purpose of fragile/fallible human nature)
5.19.1-2 (comparison of Eve and Mary)
5.23.1-2 (the fall)

« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 05:02:42 PM by Justin Kissel »

Offline Alpo

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Re: Original Sin
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2015, 07:00:52 PM »
...the Greek-speaking early Christians and later Orthodox

I see what you did there. :police: Anyway, thanks. Heard much talk about Against Heresies but never read the book myself. I should definitely check it.
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Original Sin
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2015, 03:44:22 PM »
Couldn't find First Created Man from a library so I ordered a copy online. Should arrive within a week. I'm flying to Tbilisi on wednesday so hopefully it arrives before that. Wasn't too expensive and it does indeed look interesting.

Somewhat amusing that I also ordered Just Kids by Patti Smith from the same bookstore. Accidentally in Swedish but I am trying to brush up my Swedish too so it's not a big loss. I wonder how many customers combine Robert Mapplethorne and Orthodox Saints in their orders.
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Original Sin
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2015, 03:25:03 AM »
Couldn't find First Created Man from a library so I ordered a copy online. Should arrive within a week. I'm flying to Tbilisi on wednesday so hopefully it arrives before that. Wasn't too expensive and it does indeed look interesting.

I certainly was interesting. Finished the book yesterday. There seemed to be a lot stronger emphasis on Orginal Sin than one typically sees on Netodox discussions and even some actual dogmatics. It wasn't a suprise though as that's always the case when various Orthodox writers explain their own view without quarreling with the supposed Western views.
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Maria

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Re: Original Sin
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2015, 03:52:52 AM »
Couldn't find First Created Man from a library so I ordered a copy online. Should arrive within a week. I'm flying to Tbilisi on wednesday so hopefully it arrives before that. Wasn't too expensive and it does indeed look interesting.

I certainly was interesting. Finished the book yesterday. There seemed to be a lot stronger emphasis on Orginal Sin than one typically sees on Netodox discussions and even some actual dogmatics. It wasn't a suprise though as that's always the case when various Orthodox writers explain their own view without quarreling with the supposed Western views.

Isn't the end result the same: man lives in a fallen state called ancestral curse or a state of concupiscence.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Original Sin
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2015, 04:01:37 AM »
Couldn't find First Created Man from a library so I ordered a copy online. Should arrive within a week. I'm flying to Tbilisi on wednesday so hopefully it arrives before that. Wasn't too expensive and it does indeed look interesting.

I certainly was interesting. Finished the book yesterday. There seemed to be a lot stronger emphasis on Orginal Sin than one typically sees on Netodox discussions and even some actual dogmatics. It wasn't a suprise though as that's always the case when various Orthodox writers explain their own view without quarreling with the supposed Western views.

Isn't the end result the same: man lives in a fallen state called ancestral curse or a state of concupiscence.

Pretty much yes but modern EOs seem to be hesitant to call "ancestral curse" as sinful in itself and that baptism is needed to wash away the sin. Going extra miles to deny that or to express it in another way is both widespread and silly.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 04:03:14 AM by Alpo »
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.