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Author Topic: If I'm nowhere near an Orthodox church...  (Read 4333 times) Average Rating: 0
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Clancy Boy
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« on: October 24, 2009, 08:47:53 AM »

should I attend the local Catholic church or is it better to not attend services at all?

This isn't a temporary condition, I haven't taken communion in almost 6 months.

There are no other Orthodox where I am.  I'm the only one.
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2009, 10:06:56 AM »

should I attend the local Catholic church or is it better to not attend services at all?

This isn't a temporary condition, I haven't taken communion in almost 6 months.

There are no other Orthodox where I am.  I'm the only one.

I would contact the priest of the parish you were formerly attending and ask for his guidance and direction.

You may attend the Catholic Church for fellowship, but unless otherwise directed by your Bishop, cannot commune there.
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« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2009, 10:49:19 AM »

should I attend the local Catholic church or is it better to not attend services at all?

This isn't a temporary condition, I haven't taken communion in almost 6 months.

There are no other Orthodox where I am.  I'm the only one.

I would contact the priest of the parish you were formerly attending and ask for his guidance and direction.

You may attend the Catholic Church for fellowship, but unless otherwise directed by your Bishop, cannot commune there.

No Orthodox bishop should tell you to commune there.

Where exactly are you?  Besides asking the priest where you used to attend, if we had an idea of the exact circumstances, maybe we could think of more options.
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2009, 11:47:10 AM »

If you cannot be present at the divine Liturgy, then you should do as much as you can to keep yourself within the Orthodox prayer life.  Pray the Hours yourself (you can get them online) and if possible, Vespers as well.  Can't chant; don't worry.  Just read them prayerfully. That will help ease the sense of loss.

under no circumstances should you go to a Catholic Mass or Protestant service.  If you wish to go to interact with others, fine, but be careful.
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« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2009, 11:53:57 AM »

"Reader's services" --sustained many, many people in Russia when it was not possible to attend church. You may want to perform these services in your home. 

For a reader's version of the All-Night Vigil (Vespers/Matins) go to: http://www.saintjonah.org/services/vigil.htm and in place of the Divine Liturgy on Sunday and Feastdays you may perform a Reader's Typika service: http://www.saintjonah.org/services/typica.htm Of course you will need to know the variable portions of the service to perform the Typika and that can be found here: http://www.saintjonah.org/typ/

Due to your situation you may not have a spiritual father, but if you do get his blesing to perform these services.
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« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2009, 12:15:48 PM »

should I attend the local Catholic church or is it better to not attend services at all?

This isn't a temporary condition, I haven't taken communion in almost 6 months.

There are no other Orthodox where I am.  I'm the only one.

Flee from Roman Catholics as you would from a snake and the flames of a fire. police

Derogatory word for Roman Catholics edited out.

Elpidophoros,
This is not the first time you have used derogatory language toward others who are not in your communion.  Please be more respectful.
Salpy
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2009, 01:15:42 PM »

If you cannot be present at the divine Liturgy, then you should do as much as you can to keep yourself within the Orthodox prayer life.  Pray the Hours yourself (you can get them online) and if possible, Vespers as well.  Can't chant; don't worry.  Just read them prayerfully. That will help ease the sense of loss.

under no circumstances should you go to a Catholic Mass or Protestant service.  If you wish to go to interact with others, fine, but be careful.

I'd second this.
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2009, 01:19:45 PM »

should I attend the local Catholic church or is it better to not attend services at all?

This isn't a temporary condition, I haven't taken communion in almost 6 months.

There are no other Orthodox where I am.  I'm the only one.

Thankfully the marvels of modern technology can bring you an Orthodox worship experience over the Internet.  Check out any one of the number of parishes who broadcast online (I think OCN has a list on their site, www.receive.org) to experience the Liturgy even if only at a distance.

Focus on your personal prayer life, saying and/or doing services (as a Reader would do them) and making your own home into the local Church.

Infrequent communion, while less than ideal, is better than none, and if your state of being far from a Church will be long-term, then make an effort once or twice per year to attend a parish (receive confession & communion).  Some of the great saints of the Church communed infrequently - in their cases, the strong focus on prayer and repentance bridged the gap between encounters with the Body and Blood of Christ.
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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2009, 02:49:45 PM »

should I attend the local Catholic church or is it better to not attend services at all?

This isn't a temporary condition, I haven't taken communion in almost 6 months.

There are no other Orthodox where I am.  I'm the only one.

Flee from Roman Catholics as you would from a snake and the flames of a fire. police

Derogatory word for Roman Catholics edited out.

Elpidophoros,
This is not the first time you have used derogatory language toward others who are not in your communion.  Please be more respectful.
Salpy


1,Why "papist" is a derogatory word? "Papist" literally means the one who follow the papa/pope.
2, What I quoted is not my saying,but words of saits.If the saints used "papists" in their original text,I have no right to revise them.
3,Call papists as "catholics“ is a kind of oikonomia,essentially they are not ,but only orthodox are real catholics——this is what I do believe.
4,If the policy of this forum is:all users should name papists only by the term "catholics"——not as oikonomia but as a proper form of address,then please delete my ID from the forum.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 05:18:30 PM by Salpy » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2009, 03:20:02 PM »

should I attend the local Catholic church or is it better to not attend services at all?

This isn't a temporary condition, I haven't taken communion in almost 6 months.

There are no other Orthodox where I am.  I'm the only one.

Flee from Roman Catholics as you would from a snake and the flames of a fire. police

Derogatory word for Roman Catholics edited out.

Elpidophoros,
This is not the first time you have used derogatory language toward others who are not in your communion.  Please be more respectful.
Salpy


1,Why "papist" is a derogatory word? "Papist" literally means the one who follow the papa/pope.
2, What I quoted is not my saying,but words of saits.If the saints used "papists" in their original text,I have no right to revise them.
3,Call papists as "catholics“ is a kind of oikonomia,essentially they are not ,but only orthodox are real catholics——this is what I do believe.
4,If the policy of this forum is:all users should name papists only by the term "catholics"——not as oikonomia but as a proper form of address,then please delete my ID from the forum.

You do realize that you're arguing publicly with a moderatorial decision, and that such behavior is not tolerated on the OC.net discussion forum?

From OrthodoxChristianity.net Rules and Regulations

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The next time you feel it necessary to question a moderatorial decision, please do so via private message.  If you choose instead to use the public forum to air your complaint against a moderatorial decision, in spite of my instruction in this post, you will receive a formal Green Dot warning.  Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.

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« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 05:19:18 PM by Salpy » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2009, 04:12:08 PM »

No Orthodox bishop should tell you to commune there.

I didn't mean to imply that one would. I guess my point is that we must go to our Bishop for direction as to what we must ultimately do in such a situation.
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« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2009, 04:33:59 PM »

No Orthodox bishop should tell you to commune there.

I didn't mean to imply that one would. I guess my point is that we must go to our Bishop for direction as to what we must ultimately do in such a situation.

I had a feeling that was your intention. I should have been more explicit.  Sorry.
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« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2009, 05:30:15 PM »

should I attend the local Catholic church or is it better to not attend services at all?

This isn't a temporary condition, I haven't taken communion in almost 6 months.

There are no other Orthodox where I am.  I'm the only one.

I would contact the priest of the parish you were formerly attending and ask for his guidance and direction.

You may attend the Catholic Church for fellowship, but unless otherwise directed by your Bishop, cannot commune there.

No Orthodox bishop should tell you to commune there.

Where exactly are you?  Besides asking the priest where you used to attend, if we had an idea of the exact circumstances, maybe we could think of more options.

Dalian, China.  The closest church is in Beijing and the priest of my parish (actually the priest for the entire country) flies up from Hong Kong every time a rite needs to be performed.


Curse this schism.

I'll try the online thing.  Thanks all for your help.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 05:34:40 PM by Clancy Boy » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2009, 05:45:58 PM »

Clancy Boy

As Father George mentioned, there are online broadcasts. Here is a link from the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese with several links to broadcasts. While not ideal, I hope this helps some until your situation improves.

http://www.goarch.org/chapel/live
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« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2009, 05:57:41 PM »

should I attend the local Catholic church or is it better to not attend services at all?

This isn't a temporary condition, I haven't taken communion in almost 6 months.

There are no other Orthodox where I am.  I'm the only one.

I would contact the priest of the parish you were formerly attending and ask for his guidance and direction.

You may attend the Catholic Church for fellowship, but unless otherwise directed by your Bishop, cannot commune there.

No Orthodox bishop should tell you to commune there.

Where exactly are you?  Besides asking the priest where you used to attend, if we had an idea of the exact circumstances, maybe we could think of more options.

Dalian, China.  The closest church is in Beijing and the priest of my parish (actually the priest for the entire country) flies up from Hong Kong every time a rite needs to be performed.


Curse this schism.

I'll try the online thing.  Thanks all for your help.

My, you are in the middle of nowhere, speaking Orthodoxically.

The St. Jonah (of Manchuria) website mentioned above has some good links on Chinese Orthodoxy:
http://www.saintjonah.org/world.htm
http://www.saintjonah.org/services/chinese.htm


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« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2009, 06:08:16 PM »

Infrequent communion, while less than ideal, is better than none, and if your state of being far from a Church will be long-term, then make an effort once or twice per year to attend a parish (receive confession & communion).  Some of the great saints of the Church communed infrequently - in their cases, the strong focus on prayer and repentance bridged the gap between encounters with the Body and Blood of Christ.

Yes. In Slavic countries, generally there is a custom to partake in the Eucharist infrequently, only several times a year, sometimes just twice (during the Great Lent and during the St. Philip's fast before Nativity). Maybe that's an extreme, but there is, I believe, a positive side in this custom, which is stressing the importance of preparation for the Eucharist. In my Ukrainian Orthodox prayerbook, it is written that a person who wishes to partake in the Eucharist must fast for more than one day, and pray ferverently, and go to the Holy MYstery of Penance (Confession) before communing. Again, maybe this custom has some exaggeration in it; in my parish, everyone communes each time we meet (which is, at best, once a month - sometimes less frequent than that...); there are different "schools of thought" regarding the neccessity of Confession prior to Communion, etc.; but, in any case, I think you would be comforted to know that NOT partaking in the Eucharist every single Sunday is not something that is strange to the Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2009, 06:51:20 PM »

Grace and Peace,

This is the kind of thing that drives me from a life in Orthodoxy. There was a time when Orthodox encouraged their parishioners to take communion abroad at an Anglican Parish when no Orthodox Parish was available but you would not suggest that they partake of the Liturgy of the Roman Church who is by far the closest reflection of the early Church in the West. Perhaps you might come to disagreement regarding those Dogmas which are particular to her Tradition but the forensic dogmas of Anglicanism especially during the early 20th Century should have cause just as much scandal as any of these and yet it was okay to send your parishioners to the Anglican Liturgy. I find that so inconsistent in light of your modern day polemics against Roman Catholicism that I find myself considering it a falsehood.
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« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2009, 07:17:15 PM »

This is the kind of thing that drives me from a life in Orthodoxy. There was a time when Orthodox encouraged their parishioners to take communion abroad at an Anglican Parish when no Orthodox Parish was available but you would not suggest that they partake of the Liturgy of the Roman Church who is by far the closest reflection of the early Church in the West.

I'll just stop the quote here and address your point: if you were to ask our theologians, hierarchs, clergy, and educators the same question in the OP only with "Anglican" instead of "Roman Catholic," you would get the same responses as have been presented here: pray on your own, don't receive communion.  I can not and will not comment on "a time when Orthodox encouraged their parishioners to take communion abroad at an Anglican Parish when no Orthodox Parish was available," since I am not in a position to effect the policy of the past or present on the matter.  All I can say is that it is very likely that at the same time people were being encouraged to go to Anglican Churches if there was no Orthodox Church people were also encouraged to attend RC Churches, although the latter would have been discouraged more than the former likely because of various historical circumstances (Orthodox folk continuing to remember the 4th Crusade, for example).  However, in the present time, I'll venture a guess and say that while the same advice would be given for both "Anglican" and "Roman Catholic" (re: the OP), if one had to be chosen over the other, I'd say that the latter would win out.

However, if the issue of how sinners treat your church is what "that drives me from a life in Orthodoxy," then you likely weren't that close to begin with, IMO, and you're merely using the phrase for effect here.
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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2009, 07:19:25 PM »

ignatius,

Quote
There was a time when Orthodox encouraged their parishioners to take communion abroad at an Anglican Parish when no Orthodox Parish was available but you would not suggest that they partake of the Liturgy of the Roman Church who is by far the closest reflection of the early Church in the West.

Fwiw, it's my understanding that at least some Orthodox thought that Anglicanism was closer to Orthodoxy than it really was, and later changed their minds about communing in Anglican Churches when they found out about how different Anglicanism was. For example, there was St. Raphael of Brooklyn who wrote about this in a Patoral Letter.
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« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2009, 07:46:09 PM »

Grace and Peace,

This is the kind of thing that drives me from a life in Orthodoxy. There was a time when Orthodox encouraged their parishioners to take communion abroad at an Anglican Parish when no Orthodox Parish was available but you would not suggest that they partake of the Liturgy of the Roman Church who is by far the closest reflection of the early Church in the West. Perhaps you might come to disagreement regarding those Dogmas which are particular to her Tradition but the forensic dogmas of Anglicanism especially during the early 20th Century should have cause just as much scandal as any of these and yet it was okay to send your parishioners to the Anglican Liturgy. I find that so inconsistent in light of your modern day polemics against Roman Catholicism that I find myself considering it a falsehood.

Welll, although many under the Vatican would like us to believe that history begins with Vatican II, we know differently: at the time you are speakng of, I personally know of people whom the Vatican tried to rebaptize. And the sermons were full of nice things about "schismatics."
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« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2009, 08:37:19 AM »

Dalian, China.  The closest church is in Beijing and the priest of my parish (actually the priest for the entire country) flies up from Hong Kong every time a rite needs to be performed.
Seriously? We have a friend who lives there. Unfortunately, she's not Orthodox. Still, have you tried the university? They have all kinds of international students there, and some of them may be in the same situation as you. That's actually how our parish was started, by a professor and his family, with some of the international students and a few other members of the community. We actually met on the university campus for several years.
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« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2009, 12:06:05 PM »

Grace and Peace,

This is the kind of thing that drives me from a life in Orthodoxy. There was a time when Orthodox encouraged their parishioners to take communion abroad at an Anglican Parish when no Orthodox Parish was available but you would not suggest that they partake of the Liturgy of the Roman Church who is by far the closest reflection of the early Church in the West. Perhaps you might come to disagreement regarding those Dogmas which are particular to her Tradition but the forensic dogmas of Anglicanism especially during the early 20th Century should have cause just as much scandal as any of these and yet it was okay to send your parishioners to the Anglican Liturgy. I find that so inconsistent in light of your modern day polemics against Roman Catholicism that I find myself considering it a falsehood.

Where is the evidence that Orthodox priests encouraged their parishoners to take bread at an Anglican house of prayer? 

So if you aren't near an Orthodox Church then you don't go to the Catholics, or the Anglicans or the whoever.  Do reader's services, etc.. at home and pray. 
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« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2009, 03:25:03 PM »

When I lived in (x), I went temporarily went to a Catholic church and took communion...

I don't think God keeps a record book.
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« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2009, 04:17:17 PM »

When I lived in (x), I went temporarily went to a Catholic church and took communion...

I don't think God keeps a record book.
Ya know, that strikes me as a very disrespectful way to justify gross disrespect for the authority of your own tradition. Angry
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« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2009, 04:24:14 PM »

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I don't think God keeps a record book.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." - Rev. 20:12
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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2009, 05:06:15 PM »

This is the kind of thing that drives me from a life in Orthodoxy.

 Huh Ever since 1969, The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation and the Joint International Commission for Theological Dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church have issued official statements that advise against communicating in each other's churches.

That's the official stance of the Roman Catholic Church -- as well as the Orthodox Church -- and both are in mutual agreement.
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« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2009, 05:43:23 PM »

When I lived in (x), I went temporarily went to a Catholic church and took communion...

I don't think God keeps a record book.
There is a woman in my parish who moved to my city before there was an Orthodox parish here, and was instructed by her bishop to attend an Anglican church. This she did faithfully, but she failed to realize that he did not want her to take Communion. When she found out about my parish several years ago, she immediately started attending, and was re-Chrismated as one who repented of heresy. Now in her case it was an honest mistake, but if even an honest mistake is dealt with this severely, how much more do you think blatant disregard for the Eucharist would be?
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« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2009, 06:23:21 PM »

I would like to supplement Fr. George's guidance in Reply #7.  I've been surprised that I was able to feel comfortable viewing the Liturgy on the internet on cold, snowy days, when I can't go out, usually using the "goarch.org" website.  I would also suggest you maintain financially contributing membership in an Orthodox parish, to at least help you feel a part of the Body of Christ, making a sacrificial contribution to an Orthodox Church, consistent with Old Testament guidance, and to receive the parish's mail.

But, if you are solid in your Orthodoxy, I'd attend a Roman Catholic Church, too, just to experience a Eucharistic assembly, but do not in any other way, do anything that would imply participation in their sacraments or sacramentals, other than giving a dollar in the tray when it goes by, in appreciation for what the RC parish is providing you.  Prior to the wacky "reforms" since the 1960's, Orthodox Priests would tend to suggest Episcopalian parish's in your circumstances, but through the authority they've given their Lambeth Conferences, their faith is way too watered down today, without even getting into female and homosexual clergy.  I'm sure there remain a few traditionalist Episcopalian Churches, yet, the risk of the wacky stuff, is too great.  The Roman Catholic Church's clergy enjoy Apostolic Succession, are hierarchical, and at least maintain some of the traditions we had commonly shared, not with standing their innovations.
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« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2009, 08:26:32 PM »

The Roman Catholic Church's clergy enjoy Apostolic Succession

What makes you say that?  One has to maintain apostolic teaching to have apostolic succession, and Roman Catholicism strays from the path.  They don't even teach the same concept of apostolic succession.  There is no more benefit to going to a RC church for the "Eucharistic assembly," than there is to go to an Anglican or Pentecostal snake-handling church for the same reason.  Anglicans may have a lot of wildly incorrect teachings and even if they'd never ordained a single woman or active homosexual, they'd still be wrong.
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« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2009, 08:56:01 PM »

If you cannot be present at the divine Liturgy, then you should do as much as you can to keep yourself within the Orthodox prayer life.  Pray the Hours yourself (you can get them online) and if possible, Vespers as well.  Can't chant; don't worry.  Just read them prayerfully. That will help ease the sense of loss.

under no circumstances should you go to a Catholic Mass or Protestant service.  If you wish to go to interact with others, fine, but be careful.

The Carpatho-Russians put out a book called the Hours of Prayer with Vespers, etc. set up for laymen to pray
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« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2009, 05:10:46 AM »

Grace and Peace,

This is the kind of thing that drives me from a life in Orthodoxy. There was a time when Orthodox encouraged their parishioners to take communion abroad at an Anglican Parish when no Orthodox Parish was available but you would not suggest that they partake of the Liturgy of the Roman Church who is by far the closest reflection of the early Church in the West. Perhaps you might come to disagreement regarding those Dogmas which are particular to her Tradition but the forensic dogmas of Anglicanism especially during the early 20th Century should have cause just as much scandal as any of these and yet it was okay to send your parishioners to the Anglican Liturgy. I find that so inconsistent in light of your modern day polemics against Roman Catholicism that I find myself considering it a falsehood.

I think it's a little odd too.  As an ex-Mormon to me the differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy are so minor.  They're there of course, but comparatively speaking it's practically nothing at all.

I also wonder how much of this is really critical to one's salvation and how much of it is just good old-fashioned pride.

Help me understand.  Granted I don't believe the Bishop of Rome speaks for all of Christianity or is infallible, that's why I joined the Orthodox church and not the Catholic one.  But is it the official position that he has no authority whatsoever?  Is communion prepared by them no good?  Are their baptisms invalid?  Are Catholics damned?

I know some who even condemn statuary and the Latin tongue.  Where does it end?
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« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2009, 05:17:36 AM »

Dalian, China.  The closest church is in Beijing and the priest of my parish (actually the priest for the entire country) flies up from Hong Kong every time a rite needs to be performed.
Seriously? We have a friend who lives there. Unfortunately, she's not Orthodox. Still, have you tried the university? They have all kinds of international students there, and some of them may be in the same situation as you. That's actually how our parish was started, by a professor and his family, with some of the international students and a few other members of the community. We actually met on the university campus for several years.

Yes, seriously!

There is one older Russian couple that I see on occasion.  We're friends, but they're not interested in holding services together.

The only other candidates are the other Russians, but they're all tourists.

Seriously considering moving.
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« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2009, 05:24:20 AM »

When I lived in (x), I went temporarily went to a Catholic church and took communion...

I don't think God keeps a record book.
Ya know, that strikes me as a very disrespectful way to justify gross disrespect for the authority of your own tradition. Angry

Shunning other Christians because of a technicality strikes me as Pharisaic.  Straining at gnats, etc. 
My tradition begins with Christ, the apostles and the church fathers, not with whatever ugliness transpired in the 11th century.  I think continuing enmity among the faithful is a serious betrayal of that tradition.

That said I try to be obedient and I will not commune with the Catholics if I'm told I shouldn't.
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« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2009, 05:47:50 AM »

Grace and Peace,

This is the kind of thing that drives me from a life in Orthodoxy. There was a time when Orthodox encouraged their parishioners to take communion abroad at an Anglican Parish when no Orthodox Parish was available but you would not suggest that they partake of the Liturgy of the Roman Church who is by far the closest reflection of the early Church in the West. Perhaps you might come to disagreement regarding those Dogmas which are particular to her Tradition but the forensic dogmas of Anglicanism especially during the early 20th Century should have cause just as much scandal as any of these and yet it was okay to send your parishioners to the Anglican Liturgy. I find that so inconsistent in light of your modern day polemics against Roman Catholicism that I find myself considering it a falsehood.

I think it's a little odd too.  As an ex-Mormon to me the differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy are so minor.  They're there of course, but comparatively speaking it's practically nothing at all.

I also wonder how much of this is really critical to one's salvation and how much of it is just good old-fashioned pride.

Help me understand.  Granted I don't believe the Bishop of Rome speaks for all of Christianity or is infallible, that's why I joined the Orthodox church and not the Catholic one.  But is it the official position that he has no authority whatsoever? 


That's like being a little pregnant.  The man claims to speak infallibly: on what basis would you pick and choose what he teaches?

Quote
Is communion prepared by them no good? 

Not for the Orthodox, no.

I don't understand what communing with a different communion is supposed to accomplish.  End of the day, they beleive the pope is infallible, and you don't (or shouldn't).  Cross communion resembles wife swapping.


Quote
Are their baptisms invalid? 

Unless they become Orthodox, it doesn't matter.  It isn't our concern to decide that.


Quote
Are Catholics damned?

Quote
I know some who even condemn statuary and the Latin tongue.  Where does it end?
Where does intercommunion end?
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« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2009, 06:55:42 AM »

Isa handled most of your questions already, but I'd like to catch this one:

Are Catholics damned? 

Answer: we don't know.  We can't be concerned with whether or not they, or various protestant sects (Anglicans, Baptists, etc.) are or are not damned - we can only be worried about ourselves.  Even I, as a priest who am instructed to bind and loose sins, should not and cannot speculate about whether or not another group of people is damned; instead, I hope in God's mercy, for if they are damned, then I, who am trampled down by more sins than they, am damned too.

The advice against receiving communion from others (Roman Catholic, Anglican, etc.) has nothing to do with whether or not they are damned, and everything to do with what communion means to us as Orthodox: the Body and Blood of Christ, the visible and invisible sign of identical belief in God (Trinity, Incarnate & Eternal Son who became fully man while remaining fully God, the nature and procession of the Spirit, etc.), theosis, the washing away of sin & transgression...  The others do not have identical beliefs, and so we cannot manifest a unity of imperfection in the Perfect Body and Blood. 

Attending the worship services of others if you are strong in your faith may not be bad, but with all the advances in modern technology - where now the Liturgy is able to be broadcast all over the world - why should you need to?  Make pilgrimage a few times per year to attend an Orthodox Liturgy and receive the sacraments, and the rest of the year pray, watch the Liturgy, study, and through your journey in Life love others (give to charity, etc.).  God will not be "missing" from your life.
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« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2009, 07:03:04 AM »

I think it's a little odd too.  As an ex-Mormon to me the differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy are so minor.  They're there of course, but comparatively speaking it's practically nothing at all.

I don't know if I'd call them "practically nothing at all" - eternal procession of the Spirit, theosis, transubstantiation, azymes, statuary, infallibility, primacy of honor vs. supreme authority, conciliar model of Church governance... Some of those are short words or small phrases, but encompass serious differences in how we understand God and how He works in the world.  Yes, they are definitely different than the differences between either Church and Mormonism, but remembering our Orthodox POV that all sin separates us from God, each difference prevents us from proclaiming One Faith, and thus we cannot share Communion.

On an official-type level the Roman Catholic Church is given a lot of respect by the Orthodox, and likely more respect than the Anglican Church; if one is concerned with how the rest of us sinners treat the RC's and members of the Anglican Communion, then one isn't focused on Christ (it's like being offended that the patients keep coughing on visitors at the hospital - does that really speak to the quality of the hospital/Church, or to how the hospital treats its visitors?).
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« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2009, 08:26:33 AM »

I think continuing enmity among the faithful is a serious betrayal of that tradition.

Enmity would not be a good thing. However, that is not the motivation or rationale for the lack of communion between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. As I posted above, such is the mutually agreed upon pastoral advice of both churches, not because of enmity, but out of respect for and honesty about the real differences that divide us. To pretend otherwise would indeed be a serious betrayal...and very disrespectful.
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« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2009, 10:49:20 AM »

As I posted above, such is the mutually agreed upon pastoral advice of both churches, not because of enmity, but out of respect for and honesty about the real differences that divide us. To pretend otherwise would indeed be a serious betrayal...and very disrespectful.

Excellent point, thank you.
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« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2009, 01:58:24 PM »

I personally know of people whom the Vatican tried to rebaptize. And the sermons were full of nice things about "schismatics."
Oh the good 'ol days.... LOL... KIDDING
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« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2009, 03:05:37 PM »

Seriously considering moving.

Maybe you should, but be slow to make this decision if it will separate you from your family. 

Yes, I know, Matthew 10:37, but still.  Exodus 20:12 still applies as well.

Quote from: Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Quote from: Exodus 20:12
Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
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« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2009, 03:16:37 PM »

Seriously considering moving.

Maybe you should, but be slow to make this decision if it will separate you from your family. 

Yes, I know, Matthew 10:37, but still.  Exodus 20:12 still applies as well.

Quote from: Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Quote from: Exodus 20:12
Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

IMO, Matthew 10:37 is referring to if the will, wishes, etc. of parents is opposed to the Lord.  If living by parents means you're far away from a Church, this isn't a conscious decision to oppose the Lord's will; people like Sts. Anthony the Great and Mary of Egypt prove that you don't need to be close to a Church to be close to God.
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« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2009, 03:47:44 PM »

I personally know of people whom the Vatican tried to rebaptize. And the sermons were full of nice things about "schismatics."
Oh the good 'ol days.... LOL... KIDDING

LOL, I love your humor!  Perhaps we should bring back the Spanish Inquisition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHGOl-jfUK0
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« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2009, 03:49:16 PM »

Seriously considering moving.

Maybe you should, but be slow to make this decision if it will separate you from your family. 

Yes, I know, Matthew 10:37, but still.  Exodus 20:12 still applies as well.

Quote from: Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Quote from: Exodus 20:12
Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

IMO, Matthew 10:37 is referring to if the will, wishes, etc. of parents is opposed to the Lord.  If living by parents means you're far away from a Church, this isn't a conscious decision to oppose the Lord's will; people like Sts. Anthony the Great and Mary of Egypt prove that you don't need to be close to a Church to be close to God.

Also, did not St. Seraphim of Sarov spend a thousand days alone praying on a rock? I hardly think God faulted him for missing Divine Liturgy for that!
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« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2009, 03:49:23 PM »

I personally know of people whom the Vatican tried to rebaptize. And the sermons were full of nice things about "schismatics."
Oh the good 'ol days.... LOL... KIDDING

LOL, I love your humor!  Perhaps we should bring back the Spanish Inquisition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHGOl-jfUK0
"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!"  Cheesy
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« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2009, 06:17:14 PM »

Many thanks to those who have answered  Clancy Boy's initial request on what to do. Itr appears that the general consensus is: No, do not attend and commune in other Churches.

I think that Father George gives us the best reason for this when  he stated:
Quote
The advice against receiving communion from others (Roman Catholic, Anglican, etc.) has nothing to do with whether or not they are damned, and everything to do with what communion means to us as Orthodox: the Body and Blood of Christ, the visible and invisible sign of identical belief in God (Trinity, Incarnate & Eternal Son who became fully man while remaining fully God, the nature and procession of the Spirit, etc.), theosis, the washing away of sin & transgression...  The others do not have identical beliefs, and so we cannot manifest a unity of imperfection in the Perfect Body and Blood. 

Attending the worship services of others if you are strong in your faith may not be bad, but with all the advances in modern technology - where now the Liturgy is able to be broadcast all over the world - why should you need to?  Make pilgrimage a few times per year to attend an Orthodox Liturgy and receive the sacraments, and the rest of the year pray, watch the Liturgy, study, and through your journey in Life love others (give to charity, etc.).  God will not be "missing" from your life.

Being in China, I hope that Clancy Boy has access to the GOARCh broadcast Divine Liturgies or other similar Orthodox Liturgies to suppliment his reading of the hours and Typica. If not many Holy Orthodox People have remained faithful through the use of the Readers Hours and Typica.

As his question has been answered, I am closing this topic.

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