OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 21, 2014, 04:46:53 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Poll
Question: What are the daily expenses of your Church?
< $100 a day - 2 (15.4%)
$101 to $500 a day - 7 (53.8%)
$501 to $1,000 a day - 0 (0%)
> $1,000 a day - 4 (30.8%)
We have no expenses - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 13

Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Daily Expenses Incurred by your Church  (Read 3241 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,896


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2009, 01:21:48 AM »

ytterbiumanalyst has made similar criticisms, though he hasn't been as vocal as I have.

Mr. Y. has made his comments pertinent to the thread.  You said to mind my own business and leave the question unasked.
Yes, he's been pertinent, but no more pertinent than my stern "Mind your own business!"  In a way, though, Mr. Y can, and maybe should, be understood as saying essentially the same thing I've been saying, though in much different words.  I'll let him speak for himself, though, since I could very well have him pegged wrong.
Logged
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2009, 08:29:24 AM »

The fact that you have stated that you feel your parish is spending money irresponsibly, and are asking us for information about how our parishes spend money, seems to me that you are looking for backup on your position. Why not ask for a full financial statement from your parish?

I can get that next month at the Assembly.
Then why don't you do so, and ask the people responsible for spending the Church's money about how they're spending it? That seems to be to be a much more discreet and appropriate course of action than posting complaints about your parish for all the world to see. Would you buy space on a billboard downtown proclaiming "My parish is irresponsible?" Would you go on television with such a message? If not, why are you saying such things to a global audience?

What is the issue with asking how much a Church spends per day?   Huh  I'm not proud my Church spends $3,000 per day because I know half that amount is salaries and benefits.
Only half? That's awesome for a parish, especially if you pay your priest a competitive wage. What's your complaint?

Being asked to fund it.   Undecided
You're complaining about only half your parish's budget going to wages? Perhaps you ought to ask the treasurer to explain the economics of a non-profit organization. I don't think you understand church finances.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,360


metron ariston


« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2009, 08:40:48 AM »

To elaborate, being asked to give the equivalent of $3 to $4 a day as part of a Stewardship commitment where not everyone is in a position to make such an offering.

Not everyone has to give $3 or $4 a day. That just needs to be needs to the mean average when all things are said and done. Some people can give $20 a day, another group $10, another group $6. That balances those who can only give $1 or $2.
Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,653


WWW
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2009, 03:37:24 PM »

Not everyone has to give $3 or $4 a day. That just needs to be needs to the mean average when all things are said and done. Some people can give $20 a day, another group $10, another group $6. That balances those who can only give $1 or $2.

What if far more people give 30 cents per day than $20 per day?  Shouldn't expenses reflect the reality of giving and not the other way around?
Logged
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,653


WWW
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2009, 03:45:13 PM »

That seems to be to be a much more discreet and appropriate course of action than posting complaints about your parish for all the world to see.

I talk about my struggles with my ex-wife.  What is wrong with talking about Church finances?  I can see how the two can be taboo subjects and I've seen people on this forum bare their souls far more than discussing ex-wives and Church expenses.   Huh

Would you buy space on a billboard downtown proclaiming "My parish is irresponsible?" Would you go on television with such a message? If not, why are you saying such things to a global audience?

You're taking this discussion too far.

You're complaining about only half your parish's budget going to wages? Perhaps you ought to ask the treasurer to explain the economics of a non-profit organization. I don't think you understand church finances.

I respect your opinion and I don't agree with it at all.   Smiley
Logged
HandmaidenofGod
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA (Ecumenical Patriarch)
Posts: 3,397


O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!


« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2009, 06:46:06 PM »

What if far more people give 30 cents per day than $20 per day?  Shouldn't expenses reflect the reality of giving and not the other way around?

This is where faith comes in.

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking "where is our money going?" and making sure that the parish is using the money prudently. However if a parish can justify every single dollar allocated, and has cut where it can, and saved where it can, then in faith they leave the rest to God.

Having lost my job in Dec. and being a current full-time student, I can't give as much as I used to or as much as I'd like to. However, I give what I can financially, give what I can of my time, and leave the rest to God.

While parish's are having to cut back during to current economic circumstances, there are certain bills that must be paid. This is when those who can give more, do. If the parish were to try to cut back their expenses too much, they would cease to exist.
Logged

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,109


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2009, 07:45:35 PM »

I'm concerned about those (myself included) who are unable to afford that "minimum" per diem amount.  

Ahh, now there's the rub.  Don't worry about it; give what you can, and encourage others to do so as well, so that those who can give $3+/day will.  As pensateomnia points out, those who can only afford $1/day should only give that; but those who can afford to give $20/day should also give that.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,109


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2009, 07:48:22 PM »

Not everyone has to give $3 or $4 a day. That just needs to be needs to the mean average when all things are said and done. Some people can give $20 a day, another group $10, another group $6. That balances those who can only give $1 or $2.

(SNIP) Shouldn't expenses reflect the reality of giving and not the other way around?

Only within reason - the Church should be working to proclaim the gospel, serve the poor, participate in the sacraments, and teach the faith regardless of the levels being given.  Yes, if the parish can't afford to spend thousands of dollars per month on a Gymnasium mortgage, then they shouldn't build in the first place.  But if the budget is focused on ministry, then ministry must continue, and God will provide (maybe not in the way people expect, though).

What if far more people give 30 cents per day than $20 per day?

If that's all people can afford, great.  If, however, they're saying they can only afford 30 cents while they take 2 vacations or own multiple homes or buy new TVs every year, then they're obviously thinking they can deceive God and not help their fellow man.  The consequence will be their own to bear.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 07:51:13 PM by Fr. George » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,109


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2009, 08:06:02 PM »

If people actually gave, say, 5% of their income on average to the Church, then the Church's ministries to the poor, widowed, orphaned, and destitute would be greatly magnified.  However, I'll venture a guess that many (I won't say "most" or anything like that) give 1% or less to charity.

2007 approx. median household income: $50,000 (thank you, wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States).  If 0.5% of US homes are Orthodox, then that's 560,000 Orthodox homes.  If each home gave 5% of their income to the Church, the Churches would receive $1,400,000,000.00 in contributions, and I'll venture to bet that at most 30% of that number ($420,000,000) would be used for administration (for 2,000 parishes + dozens of other organizations including diocesan administration, web services, theological schools, and the like; $200,000 per organization).  That leaves nearly $1,000,000,000 (one billion, for those who don't like lots of zeroes) for charity.  Think about that.  5%.  Not a 10% tithe; only half that.

(Oh, my speculation about 1% above would equal, with the demographic info, about $280,000,000, which makes sense considering how many parishes don't have a full-time priest, and how many organizations depend on festivals and other fundraisers to pay the bills.)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 08:08:32 PM by Fr. George » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2009, 08:08:33 PM »

Would you buy space on a billboard downtown proclaiming "My parish is irresponsible?" Would you go on television with such a message? If not, why are you saying such things to a global audience?

You're taking this discussion too far.
I'm trying to remind you that what you say here can potentially be viewed by everyone in the world. It would be advisable to exercise caution in what you say.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,109


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2009, 08:39:15 PM »

Would you buy space on a billboard downtown proclaiming "My parish is irresponsible?" Would you go on television with such a message? If not, why are you saying such things to a global audience?

You're taking this discussion too far.
I'm trying to remind you that what you say here can potentially be viewed by everyone in the world. It would be advisable to exercise caution in what you say.

Amen.  I've had someone who is neither a member nor a lurker allude to an OC.net discussion in a face-to-face conversation.  He had been informed of this conversation by someone at the junction of Asia & Europe who is also neither a member nor a lurker.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,653


WWW
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2009, 10:23:19 PM »

I'm trying to remind you that what you say here can potentially be viewed by everyone in the world. It would be advisable to exercise caution in what you say.

Your concern is appreciated and duly noted.   Smiley

I do realize that anything said publicly on this forum has a worldwide audience.  Other than throwing around numbers and discussing my thoughts on those numbers, I believe my comments are benign.   Smiley
Logged
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,653


WWW
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2009, 10:29:58 PM »

Only within reason - the Church should be working to proclaim the gospel, serve the poor, participate in the sacraments, and teach the faith regardless of the levels being given.  Yes, if the parish can't afford to spend thousands of dollars per month on a Gymnasium mortgage, then they shouldn't build in the first place.  But if the budget is focused on ministry, then ministry must continue, and God will provide (maybe not in the way people expect, though).

No issue from me.   Smiley

What if far more people give 30 cents per day than $20 per day?

If that's all people can afford, great.  If, however, they're saying they can only afford 30 cents while they take 2 vacations or own multiple homes or buy new TVs every year, then they're obviously thinking they can deceive God and not help their fellow man.  The consequence will be their own to bear.

No issue from me either.   Smiley
Logged
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2009, 11:03:12 PM »

Yet you do have an issue with 50% of your parish's budget going to salaries, despite the fact that such an arrangement is enviable among the vast majority of non-profit organizations.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,653


WWW
« Reply #59 on: October 21, 2009, 11:47:49 PM »

Yet you do have an issue with 50% of your parish's budget going to salaries, despite the fact that such an arrangement is enviable among the vast majority of non-profit organizations.

Can you cite sources supporting the assertion regarding salaries as 50% of a non-profit's budget?
Logged
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.079 seconds with 44 queries.