Poll

Why Do You Believe In God?

The Lives of Saints
19 (8.3%)
The Witness of Martyrs
21 (9.2%)
Historical Evidence
22 (9.6%)
Science
8 (3.5%)
The Bible
22 (9.6%)
Miracles
10 (4.4%)
Nature/Fine-Tuned Universe Argument
14 (6.1%)
Other Philosophical Arguments
19 (8.3%)
I Just Believe
31 (13.6%)
A Personal Experience
62 (27.2%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Author Topic: Why Do You Believe In God?  (Read 26015 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 36,248
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #180 on: January 15, 2014, 01:00:44 AM »
I still don't understand...  but that's completely normal for this thread!

Offline IoanC

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,468
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #181 on: January 15, 2014, 04:11:58 AM »
"I Just Believe" would be the closest, but it's not really it. I believe because I believe it's great to believe. The idea of God is infinite and that's awesome! It's what I like: the infinite, power. I don't understand something lesser than that.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 04:12:15 AM by IoanC »

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #182 on: January 15, 2014, 09:38:42 AM »
It is difficult to analyze why I believe because I'm sure there are subconcious motives for my belief that I have perhaps not even considered.  I would say the first thing that comes to my head is I don't really know what to do with the historical figure of Christ if He is not God. I think the C.S. Lewis "trilema" is a bit too simplistic, but it is a good first step into understanding Christ.
God bless!

Offline benjohn146

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 476
    • Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church, Belleville, Ontario, Canada
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Metropolis of Toronto
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #183 on: June 01, 2016, 03:05:48 PM »
I dug up my old writing on my belief in God that I wrote after returning to Christianity from a stint as an agnostic.  I didn't realize it was this long, but if anyone is interested, I posted it here.  I will note that it is not written from an Orthodox perspective as Orthodoxy was not even on my radar at the time, so my views on some things have changed quite significantly.

http://musingsofthreefates.blogspot.com/


I stopped here:

Quote
The best place to start when discussing anything is at the beginning which is what we will do.  Scientists, even avowed atheists, struggle with why our universe appears to be so finely tuned.

I think appealing to science, and trying to prove God from DNA, dark matter, quantum physics, what-have-you, is, like, the worst apologetics of the modern age.

I'm not going to defend it, because, as I said, my thinking has changed quite a bit on issues.  I will say that when I stated that scientists "struggle" with it, I meant that they seek rational explanations.  I then detailed some of the explanations that have been put forth.  I could similarly say that theists "struggle" to explain the problem of evil.  It is a difficulty, but not necessarily one that is insurmountable. 

Just to give it some background.  I wrote it upon coming out of agnosticism and was very operating from a scientism based mentality, hence my discussion on science.  I did not struggle as much with the philosophical concept of a God as much as how I could believe in God and still have faith in science.  I did not intend to use science to prove God, but rather wished to be able to understand how the two can be compatible.

I don`t understand why some people think this is the worst apologetics of modern age. Reading how physicists like Nima Arkani-Hamed have tried to explain the fine tuning : " If there are huge numbers of universes, perhaps 10 to the 500th power by one estimate, then it is no great stretch to imagine that at least one of them—ours—wound up having extremely small amounts of observed vacuum energy and a weak force that operates on a scale much smaller than expected ", certainly strengthened my belief in God. There is no competition between one God and 10^500 gods.

http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2005/0511string.shtml

Great thread that I will raise from the dead  ;)

I would like to have someone to explain to me (perhaps the author?) the following:

Quote
" If there are huge numbers of universes, perhaps 10 to the 500th power by one estimate, then it is no great stretch to imagine that at least one of them—ours—wound up having extremely small amounts of observed vacuum energy and a weak force that operates on a scale much smaller than expected ", certainly strengthened my belief in God. There is no competition between one God and 10^500 gods.



Maybe it is because of the language barrier (English is not my first language), but I don't understand this concept at all.

Thank you!
St Makarios, pray for us.

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,000
  • Pray for me Sts. Mina & Kyrillos for my interviews
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #184 on: June 01, 2016, 11:01:32 PM »
No matter how big the cosmos is, or how innumerable the number of universes are, compared to the incomparable Godhead, they are but a speck, if not nothing.

Or to put it more simply, the size of the cosmos cannot compare to the awe of God.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 11:02:16 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline ahmad seraphim

  • why am I here?
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: my heart belongs to Patriarch Pavle
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #185 on: June 01, 2016, 11:13:32 PM »
All are my answer.
St.Ahmed of Calligrapher pray for us!

Offline RaphaCam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,592
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #186 on: June 01, 2016, 11:53:12 PM »
I marked lives of saints (martyrs included, specially both the very early and the very recent ones), the Bible and personal experiences. Miracles from all sources convinced me of the existence of the supernatural as an agnostic youth, but sound Christianity (mostly and eventually Orthodox Christianity) was a whole new level. Since I truly accepted faith (which is actually a kinda recent thing, I'd say half a year), though, I don't think about the reasons to believe anymore, I just do.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 11:56:55 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Rohzek

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,027
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #187 on: June 01, 2016, 11:57:31 PM »
I picked the following: 1.) I just believe, 2.) personal experience, and 3.) historical evidence.

In short, I think whether or not someone believes is purely an act of will (in synergetic fashion for belief of course). If I were to commit myself to an extreme skeptic position, I could always easily doubt any personal experience of God. However, I am not that sort of a person to doubt my own senses all of the time. That being said, we're talking about a largely metaphysical being of sorts, so I can't exactly test God's existence in a lab. So by and large, this trust of the senses and personal experience is largely anecdotal in nature. Then there is the historical evidence argument. I sorta interpreted this option in a very wide way insofar that I don't think history demonstrates proof of God, but rather a pretty good reason for at least wanting there to be a God. Human history is very vile in so many ways. I severely doubt that humans will ever be able to save themselves and I rest my case on history. So if I were to hope, I would hope and believe in a God.
"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

Offline Minnesotan

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,329
  • Milo Thatch is the ONLY Milo for me. #FreeAtlantis
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #188 on: June 02, 2016, 01:22:19 AM »
No matter how big the cosmos is, or how innumerable the number of universes are, compared to the incomparable Godhead, they are but a speck, if not nothing.

Or to put it more simply, the size of the cosmos cannot compare to the awe of God.

The "fine-tuning" argument isn't entirely airtight. Some interpretations of quantum mechanics argue that since the "unlivable" universes have no conscious beings to observe them, these universes remain in a permanently undefined state, unlike ours. Therefore, we inhabit a "fine-tuned for life" universe because we are alive, not vice versa. See consciousness causes collapse, anthropic principle, etc.

However, if you do adopt this view, then you are acknowledging some form of biocentrism, and it seems to me that biocentrism must be, by its very nature, theistic or semi-theistic, since it implies that consciousness and life are not simply the result of materialistic physical processes, but actually the driving force behind them.
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,256
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #189 on: June 02, 2016, 01:30:19 AM »
I've experienced God.  That's my chief answer.  But then again, I don't know if an absence of that experience would mean I wouldn't believe.  I can't recall a time where I've ever seriously started to believe there wasn't a God.  I've, from time to time in the past, questioned whether or not there was a God - but always within the context of praying to God....which goes back to my point about not having a time where I ever really believed otherwise.

Though, I think a more interesting question might be: Why do you believe in Christ?
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,599
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #190 on: June 02, 2016, 05:27:55 AM »
I don't really buy any logical argument for the existence of God, I think one can only look at the matter probabilistically and then make a "leap of faith." I do have some possible experiences of the presence of God, but I don't know how to put stock in them given that they can be explained away psychologically. When I believe in God for other reasons, I'm happy to treat these as examples of His presence, but not as independent "proofs" on their own.

That said, I don't think any argument against God is airtight, either. And given that some kind of theism has been the majority view of humanity since the dawn of recorded history, I think that atheism has the greater burden of proof.

Beyond that, a theistic universe makes more sense to me than an atheistic one both from a problem of evil perspective (if we believe in God then at least we can hope that He's good and has a plan)* and from a general "meaning/beauty of life" perspective.


Though, I think a more interesting question might be: Why do you believe in Christ?

I have a very uncertain relationship with all so-called "historical arguments." I believe in Christ because Christianity makes the most sense to me out of any world religion, or at least out of any of the Abrahamics. I rule out Hinduism and Buddhism because an impersonal ultimate reality/higher self doesn't seem much different to me than atheism.

Syncretic Neopaganism and Daoism (to the extent that it's actually theistic) both hold a certain amount of appeal to me, as does Sikhism, but ultimately I think the Gospel story and the Incarnation are the most beautiful and poetic concepts that humankind has ever come up with.







*Or at least hate and rebel against Him if He's evil, but I think that that would still be preferable to an indifferent universe.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 05:36:39 AM by Volnutt »
Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline benjohn146

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 476
    • Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church, Belleville, Ontario, Canada
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Metropolis of Toronto
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #191 on: June 02, 2016, 06:08:00 AM »
No matter how big the cosmos is, or how innumerable the number of universes are, compared to the incomparable Godhead, they are but a speck, if not nothing.

Or to put it more simply, the size of the cosmos cannot compare to the awe of God.

Thank you!
St Makarios, pray for us.

Offline truthseeker32

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 643
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOA-Denver
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #192 on: June 02, 2016, 12:15:58 PM »
I don't really buy any logical argument for the existence of God, I think one can only look at the matter probabilistically and then make a "leap of faith."
I think most arguments for the existence of God are better categorized as arguments against unguided materialism. There are, in my opinion, several arguments that demonstrate that a reductive materialist worldview is incoherent. This, however, only proves that there is more to reality than matter. All things considered, however, I think that God is the best explanation.

Offline sestir

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
    • Weihos Bokos
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: independent
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #193 on: June 02, 2016, 12:59:58 PM »
Quote from: benjohn146
Quote
" If there are huge numbers of universes, perhaps 10 to the 500th power by one estimate, then it is no great stretch to imagine that at least one of them—ours—wound up having extremely small amounts of observed vacuum energy and a weak force that operates on a scale much smaller than expected ", certainly strengthened my belief in God. There is no competition between one God and 10^500 gods.



Maybe it is because of the language barrier (English is not my first language), but I don't understand this concept at all.

"10 to the power of 500" is how we speak the expression 10500. It means a number looking like 10000000000... but where there are actually 500 0:es. That would be very long to type, so it is more convenient to write 10500.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,592
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #194 on: June 02, 2016, 01:09:35 PM »
I don't really buy any logical argument for the existence of God, I think one can only look at the matter probabilistically and then make a "leap of faith."
I think most arguments for the existence of God are better categorized as arguments against unguided materialism. There are, in my opinion, several arguments that demonstrate that a reductive materialist worldview is incoherent. This, however, only proves that there is more to reality than matter. All things considered, however, I think that God is the best explanation.
+1
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Protospatharios
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,220
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: East
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #195 on: June 02, 2016, 01:10:07 PM »
I rule out Hinduism and Buddhism because an impersonal ultimate reality/higher self doesn't seem much different to me than atheism.

Hinduism is more fun than atheism. 
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline benjohn146

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 476
    • Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church, Belleville, Ontario, Canada
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Metropolis of Toronto
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #196 on: June 02, 2016, 01:23:14 PM »
No matter how big the cosmos is, or how innumerable the number of universes are, compared to the incomparable Godhead, they are but a speck, if not nothing.

Or to put it more simply, the size of the cosmos cannot compare to the awe of God.

I think that this is the biggest stumbling block for me to overcome and to be able to fully have faith in God.

How can an entity bigger than the cosmos, the universe, bigger than anything that can be the biggest thing ever thought or imagined, how can I have a personal relationship with Him? How could He interact with everyone, everything and be everywhere at the same time? How can the biggest of the biggest listen/hear to all the prayers and sees all the thoughts of everybody at the same time and doing all His works on top of that? How can the greatest and biggest form of life have interest to one individual and decides to reveal himself to this person directly or through His spirits/angels? Why would He care about me? Why would He loves us? Why would it be only us, in the case that we are the only rational creatures in the whole Universe?

It is really hard for me to believe...
St Makarios, pray for us.

Offline Alkis

  • All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. (Matthew 7:12)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 224
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Constantinople
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #197 on: June 02, 2016, 01:28:30 PM »
No matter how big the cosmos is, or how innumerable the number of universes are, compared to the incomparable Godhead, they are but a speck, if not nothing.

Or to put it more simply, the size of the cosmos cannot compare to the awe of God.

I think that this is the biggest stumbling block for me to overcome and to be able to fully have faith in God.

How can an entity bigger than the cosmos, the universe, bigger than anything that can be the biggest thing ever thought or imagined, how can I have a personal relationship with Him? How could He interact with everyone, everything and be everywhere at the same time? How can the biggest of the biggest listen/hear to all the prayers and sees all the thoughts of everybody at the same time and doing all His works on top of that? How can the greatest and biggest form of life have interest to one individual and decides to reveal himself to this person directly or through His spirits/angels? Why would He care about me? Why would He loves us? Why would it be only us, in the case that we are the only rational creatures in the whole Universe?

It is really hard for me to believe...

This is why I believe in God and love Him. Because He is Love and at the same time He is above all. We have a God who is above us (God the Father), next to us (God the Son) and into us (God the Holy Spirit). I love this mystery of mysteries.
For You keep my lamp burning; Lord my God You illumine my darkness. (Psalm 17:29)

Offline truthseeker32

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 643
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOA-Denver
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #198 on: June 02, 2016, 07:31:55 PM »
No matter how big the cosmos is, or how innumerable the number of universes are, compared to the incomparable Godhead, they are but a speck, if not nothing.

Or to put it more simply, the size of the cosmos cannot compare to the awe of God.

I think that this is the biggest stumbling block for me to overcome and to be able to fully have faith in God.

How can an entity bigger than the cosmos, the universe, bigger than anything that can be the biggest thing ever thought or imagined, how can I have a personal relationship with Him? How could He interact with everyone, everything and be everywhere at the same time? How can the biggest of the biggest listen/hear to all the prayers and sees all the thoughts of everybody at the same time and doing all His works on top of that? How can the greatest and biggest form of life have interest to one individual and decides to reveal himself to this person directly or through His spirits/angels? Why would He care about me? Why would He loves us? Why would it be only us, in the case that we are the only rational creatures in the whole Universe?

It is really hard for me to believe...
Since God is neither spatial nor material, size is irrelevant to Him.

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,599
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #199 on: June 02, 2016, 07:34:14 PM »
No matter how big the cosmos is, or how innumerable the number of universes are, compared to the incomparable Godhead, they are but a speck, if not nothing.

Or to put it more simply, the size of the cosmos cannot compare to the awe of God.

I think that this is the biggest stumbling block for me to overcome and to be able to fully have faith in God.

How can an entity bigger than the cosmos, the universe, bigger than anything that can be the biggest thing ever thought or imagined, how can I have a personal relationship with Him? How could He interact with everyone, everything and be everywhere at the same time? How can the biggest of the biggest listen/hear to all the prayers and sees all the thoughts of everybody at the same time and doing all His works on top of that? How can the greatest and biggest form of life have interest to one individual and decides to reveal himself to this person directly or through His spirits/angels? Why would He care about me? Why would He loves us? Why would it be only us, in the case that we are the only rational creatures in the whole Universe?

It is really hard for me to believe...

In a physical sense the universe is unfathomably bigger than we are, yes. But if there were no rational beings around to observe and discuss and marvel at it, then it wouldn't matter how big and grand it was because it would just be dead and blind material. So in a mental or spiritual sense I dare say that we're bigger than the universe.

Also, God doesn't just have a relationship with us, He becomes one of us. I think that makes a big difference in perspective too.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 07:35:56 PM by Volnutt »
Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #200 on: June 02, 2016, 08:21:59 PM »
I rule out Hinduism and Buddhism because an impersonal ultimate reality/higher self doesn't seem much different to me than atheism.

Hinduism is more fun than atheism.
Word.

God bless!

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,000
  • Pray for me Sts. Mina & Kyrillos for my interviews
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #201 on: June 02, 2016, 08:30:45 PM »
I don't really buy any logical argument for the existence of God, I think one can only look at the matter probabilistically and then make a "leap of faith."
I think most arguments for the existence of God are better categorized as arguments against unguided materialism. There are, in my opinion, several arguments that demonstrate that a reductive materialist worldview is incoherent. This, however, only proves that there is more to reality than matter. All things considered, however, I think that God is the best explanation.
+1
+2

No matter how big the cosmos is, or how innumerable the number of universes are, compared to the incomparable Godhead, they are but a speck, if not nothing.

Or to put it more simply, the size of the cosmos cannot compare to the awe of God.

I think that this is the biggest stumbling block for me to overcome and to be able to fully have faith in God.

How can an entity bigger than the cosmos, the universe, bigger than anything that can be the biggest thing ever thought or imagined, how can I have a personal relationship with Him? How could He interact with everyone, everything and be everywhere at the same time? How can the biggest of the biggest listen/hear to all the prayers and sees all the thoughts of everybody at the same time and doing all His works on top of that? How can the greatest and biggest form of life have interest to one individual and decides to reveal himself to this person directly or through His spirits/angels? Why would He care about me? Why would He loves us? Why would it be only us, in the case that we are the only rational creatures in the whole Universe?

It is really hard for me to believe...

In a physical sense the universe is unfathomably bigger than we are, yes. But if there were no rational beings around to observe and discuss and marvel at it, then it wouldn't matter how big and grand it was because it would just be dead and blind material. So in a mental or spiritual sense I dare say that we're bigger than the universe.

Also, God doesn't just have a relationship with us, He becomes one of us. I think that makes a big difference in perspective too.
+1
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,000
  • Pray for me Sts. Mina & Kyrillos for my interviews
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #202 on: June 02, 2016, 08:33:53 PM »
No matter how big the cosmos is, or how innumerable the number of universes are, compared to the incomparable Godhead, they are but a speck, if not nothing.

Or to put it more simply, the size of the cosmos cannot compare to the awe of God.

The "fine-tuning" argument isn't entirely airtight. Some interpretations of quantum mechanics argue that since the "unlivable" universes have no conscious beings to observe them, these universes remain in a permanently undefined state, unlike ours. Therefore, we inhabit a "fine-tuned for life" universe because we are alive, not vice versa. See consciousness causes collapse, anthropic principle, etc.

However, if you do adopt this view, then you are acknowledging some form of biocentrism, and it seems to me that biocentrism must be, by its very nature, theistic or semi-theistic, since it implies that consciousness and life are not simply the result of materialistic physical processes, but actually the driving force behind them.

At some point, these things have become way over my head, but in my limited understanding of quantum mechanics, as far as I have read it and listened to lectures (especially from atheists) explaining it I have not found it any more than just added information to materialistic science that need not contradict the faith.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline benjohn146

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 476
    • Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church, Belleville, Ontario, Canada
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Metropolis of Toronto
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #203 on: June 02, 2016, 08:34:15 PM »
No matter how big the cosmos is, or how innumerable the number of universes are, compared to the incomparable Godhead, they are but a speck, if not nothing.

Or to put it more simply, the size of the cosmos cannot compare to the awe of God.

I think that this is the biggest stumbling block for me to overcome and to be able to fully have faith in God.

How can an entity bigger than the cosmos, the universe, bigger than anything that can be the biggest thing ever thought or imagined, how can I have a personal relationship with Him? How could He interact with everyone, everything and be everywhere at the same time? How can the biggest of the biggest listen/hear to all the prayers and sees all the thoughts of everybody at the same time and doing all His works on top of that? How can the greatest and biggest form of life have interest to one individual and decides to reveal himself to this person directly or through His spirits/angels? Why would He care about me? Why would He loves us? Why would it be only us, in the case that we are the only rational creatures in the whole Universe?

It is really hard for me to believe...

In a physical sense the universe is unfathomably bigger than we are, yes. But if there were no rational beings around to observe and discuss and marvel at it, then it wouldn't matter how big and grand it was because it would just be dead and blind material. So in a mental or spiritual sense I dare say that we're bigger than the universe.

Also, God doesn't just have a relationship with us, He becomes one of us. I think that makes a big difference in perspective too.

You just gave me something to ponder, my friend.
St Makarios, pray for us.

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,599
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #204 on: June 03, 2016, 04:23:51 AM »
I rule out Hinduism and Buddhism because an impersonal ultimate reality/higher self doesn't seem much different to me than atheism.

Hinduism is more fun than atheism.
Word.



lol
Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline ahmad seraphim

  • why am I here?
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: my heart belongs to Patriarch Pavle
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #205 on: June 03, 2016, 05:10:21 AM »
Because it is written in Nicene creed first passage
St.Ahmed of Calligrapher pray for us!

Offline RobS

  • Formerly "nothing"
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,220
  • Jurisdiction: The thrilling romance of Holy Orthodoxy
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #206 on: June 04, 2016, 04:32:35 AM »
.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 04:48:39 AM by nothing »
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,227
  • Unbreakable! He's alive, dammit! It's a MIRACLE!
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Candle-lighting Cross Kisser
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #207 on: June 04, 2016, 06:48:27 AM »
I rule out Hinduism and Buddhism because an impersonal ultimate reality/higher self doesn't seem much different to me than atheism.

Hinduism is more fun than atheism.
Word.



No, because you can't have this:
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,464
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #208 on: June 04, 2016, 08:10:43 AM »
I rule out Hinduism and Buddhism because an impersonal ultimate reality/higher self doesn't seem much different to me than atheism.

I think it's an interesting question as to whether Buddhism's higher reality is really impersonal.
Quote
Don John pounding from the slaughter-painted poop
- GK Chesteron, "Lepanto"

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,599
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Why Do You Believe In God?
« Reply #209 on: June 04, 2016, 06:22:43 PM »
Yeah, I suppose there's the idea of the "transpersonal."
Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things