Author Topic: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan  (Read 15379 times)

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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2010, 02:42:39 AM »
An overt fraud.  ::)

It doesn't seem like it, Theop.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2010, 03:22:59 AM »
An overt fraud.  ::)

It doesn't seem like it, Theop.

I consider the Qur'an a fraud in the first place.  ::)

... and I would never trust Muslims.
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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2010, 03:25:48 AM »
An overt fraud.  ::)

It doesn't seem like it, Theop.

I consider the Qur'an a fraud in the first place.  ::)

... and I would never trust Muslims.

you ought to open your eyes, my dear friend, you ought to open your eyes.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2010, 03:32:10 AM »

you ought to open your eyes, my dear friend, you ought to open your eyes.

I was blind, but Christ opened my eyes to His truth.  ;)
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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2010, 03:38:56 AM »

you ought to open your eyes, my dear friend, you ought to open your eyes.

I was blind, but Christ opened my eyes to His truth.  ;)

If only you would follow Christ! May the almighty guide us to the followship of his Prophets!
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2010, 03:53:58 AM »

If only you would follow Christ! May the almighty guide us to the followship of his Prophets!

I follow Christ rather than a false prophet who tried to change Christ's Gospel 600 years after Him. Pray for yourself in the first place.  ;)
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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2010, 03:56:02 AM »


I follow Christ


I hope you did, brother.

Quote

Pray for yourself in the first place.  ;)


I pray for all of us.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 03:56:19 AM by Mekki »
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Offline LBK

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2010, 04:01:23 AM »
If only you would follow Christ! May the almighty guide us to the followship of his Prophets!

Last time I checked, Mohammed was not a prophet of the Christians, nor will he ever be. The last prophet recognised by Christians is St John the Baptist.

Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2010, 04:03:52 AM »
Even the Daily Mail, which often takes anti Islamic stances, states that doctors found the writings to be genuine.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1221481/Russians-left-puzzled-Koran-phrases-start-appearing-spontaneously-babys-skin.html
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2010, 04:21:46 AM »
Even the Daily Mail, which often takes anti Islamic stances, states that doctors found the writings to be genuine.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1221481/Russians-left-puzzled-Koran-phrases-start-appearing-spontaneously-babys-skin.html


The doctors did not say that the writing was miraculous. They did not make any comments on the source of the writings:

Medics deny that the marks are from someone writing on the child's skin.

Read how someone that viewed the video commented:

Oddly enough the camera cuts away just as the marks start to appear, so disabling us from seeing the alleged phrases from the Koran. Very disappointing.

 ::)



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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2010, 04:33:17 AM »
Even the Daily Mail, which often takes anti Islamic stances, states that doctors found the writings to be genuine.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1221481/Russians-left-puzzled-Koran-phrases-start-appearing-spontaneously-babys-skin.html


The doctors did not say that the writing was miraculous. They did not make any comments on the source of the writings:

Medics deny that the marks are from someone writing on the child's skin.

Read how someone that viewed the video commented:

Oddly enough the camera cuts away just as the marks start to appear, so disabling us from seeing the alleged phrases from the Koran. Very disappointing.

 ::)





If they were not a result of natural phenomenon and not inflicted by the parents, how could've they happened? those two are the only possibilities.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2010, 05:18:09 AM »

If they were not a result of natural phenomenon and not inflicted by the parents, how could've they happened? those two are the only possibilities.

This is YOUR opinion.

The doctors did not deny the other possibility.
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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2010, 05:22:49 AM »

If they were not a result of natural phenomenon and not inflicted by the parents, how could've they happened? those two are the only possibilities.

This is YOUR opinion.

The doctors did not deny the other possibility.

Which possibility?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 05:23:01 AM by Mekki »
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Offline stashko

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2010, 05:31:18 AM »

If they were not a result of natural phenomenon and not inflicted by the parents, how could've they happened? those two are the only possibilities.

This is YOUR opinion.

The doctors did not deny the other possibility.


Pozdrav Brate..A
Question ??? curious...What is your opinion on muslims that lived and died,  never knowing the christian jesus, only the muslim isa..Though in life they lived ajust or rightious life...
In Holy scripture it says God will Judge a person in according to what  he/she has recieved,So will God Judge a Muslim according to the islamic faith they recieved ,in how they lived it and practiced it,since they didn't know the true ISUS HRISTOS in life...
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2010, 08:19:16 AM »

Muslims today have every chance of "knowing" Jesus Christ.  They choose not to.
Those who have heard of Him, and not followed Him, have chosen against Him.

These are not the Indians in the deep jungles of the Amazon who have no knowledge of Christ.

ALL Muslims have heard of Christ and rejected His true message.

...it is up to God to judge them, not us.  However....

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2010, 08:29:08 AM »

Muslims today have every chance of "knowing" Jesus Christ.  They choose not to.
Those who have heard of Him, and not followed Him, have chosen against Him.

These are not the Indians in the deep jungles of the Amazon who have no knowledge of Christ.

ALL Muslims have heard of Christ and rejected His true message.

...it is up to God to judge them, not us.  However....



Muslims have indeed heard Christ's calling, and they have answered.

May the Almighty resurrect us next to this Prophets.

إن تنصرو الله ينصركم
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2010, 08:53:34 AM »

Pozdrav Brate..A
Question ??? curious...What is your opinion on muslims that lived and died,  never knowing the christian jesus, only the muslim isa..Though in life they lived ajust or rightious life...
In Holy scripture it says God will Judge a person in according to what  he/she has recieved,So will God Judge a Muslim according to the islamic faith they recieved ,in how they lived it and practiced it,since they didn't know the true ISUS HRISTOS in life...

Pozdrav  :)

I do not know, brate. God is merciful and righteous. We shall find out on the Day of Judgment how God will deal with Mohammad's followers.

Blessings,
Bogoljub
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2010, 08:56:14 AM »
Muslims have indeed heard Christ's calling, and they have answered.

May the Almighty resurrect us next to this Prophets.


This must be the joke of the day.  ;D

The person you heard and responded to was not Christ, but Mohammad. He lived 600 years after Christ and His Church, and tried to replace Christ's teaching with his evil and mundane ideology.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2010, 09:09:25 AM »

Pozdrav Brate..A
Question ??? curious...What is your opinion on muslims that lived and died,  never knowing the christian jesus, only the muslim isa..Though in life they lived ajust or rightious life...
In Holy scripture it says God will Judge a person in according to what  he/she has recieved,So will God Judge a Muslim according to the islamic faith they recieved ,in how they lived it and practiced it,since they didn't know the true ISUS HRISTOS in life...

Pozdrav  :)

I do not know, brate. God is merciful and righteous. We shall find out on the Day of Judgment how God will deal with Mohammad's followers.

Blessings,
Bogoljub

Matthew 10:42 "And whoever in the name of a disciple gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink, truly I say to you, he shall not lose his reward."

One time in Upper Egypt, I was arguing with a Muslim on how Christ was the Son of God (I pointed out that God is all seeing although He had no eyes, so too His begetting was not precisely like ours, except that it resulted in someone of the same nature). He had started speaking to me in French (more common for foreignors at the time in Upper Egypt), thinking I didn't speak Arabic.  We were on a service taxi, going through the rural South.  Someone then asked in Arabic what we were talking about.  When the person I was speaking to said that I was Christian, the one asking went into a tirade about "infidels" and what should be done with them.  The person I was speaking to then started arguing with him, saying that Christianity came befor Islam, that we were not infidels etc. and that the Christians should be left alone.  I pray he not loose his reward.  God have mercy on them both.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #64 on: July 13, 2010, 09:14:13 AM »


Quote
Moscow, October 15, Interfax - Quotations from Quran start appearing on the body of a 9-month boy named Ali from Kizlyar, Dagestan, his parents claim.

Birthmarks in form of Arabic scripts have been appearing on the baby's body since his birth. First, there were individual letters, then texts and, according to local imams, these are texts from the Quran, the Vesti TV has reported on Thursday.

Thus, one of the baby's legs has an inscription, "Allah is the creator of all things."

"First, there was a hematoma on his chin. When the bruise went off, we saw the word "Allah," Ali's mother Madina Yakubova said.

Words similar to birthmarks show up on his shank and ankle usually on Monday and Friday and then disappear.

When new inscriptions are appearing, Ali doesn't sleep all night long and has high temperature and even strong drugs cannot send it off.

The TV channel reported that Ali was diagnosed "ischemic heart disease of the second degree" and "infantile cerebral paralysis" in the maternity clinic. However, when inexplicable things started happening, he was examined and found healthy.

Hundreds of Dagestan Muslims come to Ali's house as pilgrims. Local authorities, beware of the rush, decided to guard the house round-the-clock.

source

What do you think about it?

Please, move it to the right board.
There are three possibilities: (1) biochemical explanation; (2) God-miracle; or (3) psycho-somatic manifestation. (Or all three ::))
(4) Demonic possession (which might explain the misspelling).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2010, 09:16:57 AM »
Muslims have indeed heard Christ's calling, and they have answered.

May the Almighty resurrect us next to this Prophets.


This must be the joke of the day.  ;D

The person you heard and responded to was not Christ, but Mohammad. He lived 600 years after Christ and His Church, and tried to replace Christ's teaching with his evil and mundane ideology.

The best of Creation, the one from who lights were split and secrets were divided, and on whom the knowledge of Adam descended, the one by the beauty of whom the gardens of the heavens are bright and the parterres of the Earth are vivid by the the overflow of his light only thought what the Prophets before him instructed, that the Almighty alone is worthy of worship. Though the difference that all of the messages of the previous Prophets were aimed at specific peoples, mainly the Israelities (including that of Christ), whereas the Mohammadan message is universal.

It's for that reason that when Judaics kept their religion to themselves and didn't aim at propagating it, Judaism was able to maintain its purity and unity. When Christianity was spread to the gentiles it knew all kinds of deviations to the degree that there are Churches by thousands non of whom worships God like the Israelites did.
إن تنصرو الله ينصركم
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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2010, 09:19:45 AM »


Quote
Moscow, October 15, Interfax - Quotations from Quran start appearing on the body of a 9-month boy named Ali from Kizlyar, Dagestan, his parents claim.

Birthmarks in form of Arabic scripts have been appearing on the baby's body since his birth. First, there were individual letters, then texts and, according to local imams, these are texts from the Quran, the Vesti TV has reported on Thursday.

Thus, one of the baby's legs has an inscription, "Allah is the creator of all things."

"First, there was a hematoma on his chin. When the bruise went off, we saw the word "Allah," Ali's mother Madina Yakubova said.

Words similar to birthmarks show up on his shank and ankle usually on Monday and Friday and then disappear.

When new inscriptions are appearing, Ali doesn't sleep all night long and has high temperature and even strong drugs cannot send it off.

The TV channel reported that Ali was diagnosed "ischemic heart disease of the second degree" and "infantile cerebral paralysis" in the maternity clinic. However, when inexplicable things started happening, he was examined and found healthy.

Hundreds of Dagestan Muslims come to Ali's house as pilgrims. Local authorities, beware of the rush, decided to guard the house round-the-clock.

source

What do you think about it?

Please, move it to the right board.
There are three possibilities: (1) biochemical explanation; (2) God-miracle; or (3) psycho-somatic manifestation. (Or all three ::))
(4) Demonic possession (which might explain the misspelling).

Come on Egyptioan sir, you're better than that, you know very well there's no misspelling. Please see my first post in this thread (reply #38).
إن تنصرو الله ينصركم
An ye support God, He will support thee.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2010, 09:46:35 AM »
Muslims have indeed heard Christ's calling, and they have answered.

May the Almighty resurrect us next to this Prophets.


This must be the joke of the day.  ;D

The person you heard and responded to was not Christ, but Mohammad. He lived 600 years after Christ and His Church, and tried to replace Christ's teaching with his evil and mundane ideology.

The best of Creation, the one from who lights were split and secrets were divided, and on whom the knowledge of Adam descended, the one by the beauty of whom the gardens of the heavens are bright and the parterres of the Earth are vivid by the the overflow of his light only thought what the Prophets before him instructed, that the Almighty alone is worthy of worship. Though the difference that all of the messages of the previous Prophets were aimed at specific peoples, mainly the Israelities (including that of Christ), whereas the Mohammadan message is universal.

Odd that for a universal message, it can only be in Arabic, whereas Christ sent the Holy Spirit down upond the Apostles to proclaim the Gospel in all languages to the ends of the earth.


Quote
It's for that reason that when Judaics kept their religion to themselves and didn't aim at propagating it, Judaism was able to maintain its purity and unity. When Christianity was spread to the gentiles it knew all kinds of deviations to the degree that there are Churches by thousands non of whom worships God like the Israelites did.

One of the oldest dialogues between Christians and Muslims was the exchange between the Emperor Leo III (before his iconoclams) and the Caliph Umar II.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1508294
When Umar II brought up all the sects of Christianity, which he numbered as 72 (from Muslim tradition, a confusion between the 72 nations that the 72 Apostles were sent to), Leo points out that Christianity from the start was among many languages and peoples and nations and as such over six centuries different sects would appear, but Islam was only one century old, sprung from only one people and language (which people and language, btw, included Leo: he was originally named Kanon and from Syria), and yet was already in a myriad of sects killing each other.  Leo also points out that the sects of Christianity die out (the only one which survives from Leo's time is the Nestorians), whereas the sects of Islam of its first generation, Shi'ite, Sunni (actually more accurately called Ijmaa'ii) and Khariji are still among us.

The Church of the NT worships as the Hebrew Church of the OT, just fulfilled. The Light has come, shadows disappear.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #68 on: July 13, 2010, 09:58:09 AM »
Muslims have indeed heard Christ's calling, and they have answered.

May the Almighty resurrect us next to this Prophets.


This must be the joke of the day.  ;D

The person you heard and responded to was not Christ, but Mohammad. He lived 600 years after Christ and His Church, and tried to replace Christ's teaching with his evil and mundane ideology.

The best of Creation, the one from who lights were split and secrets were divided, and on whom the knowledge of Adam descended, the one by the beauty of whom the gardens of the heavens are bright and the parterres of the Earth are vivid by the the overflow of his light only thought what the Prophets before him instructed, that the Almighty alone is worthy of worship. Though the difference that all of the messages of the previous Prophets were aimed at specific peoples, mainly the Israelities (including that of Christ), whereas the Mohammadan message is universal.

Odd that for a universal message, it can only be in Arabic, whereas Christ sent the Holy Spirit down upond the Apostles to proclaim the Gospel in all languages to the ends of the earth.


Actually, the fact that Islam and Judaism have a strict position about the ecclesiastical stature of Arabic and Hebrew is part of the reason why they were able to mainain their purity.

That. Also, let us not forget that Orthodox churches also have ecclesiastical language. We are willing to take Protestant positions to bling ourselves, aren't we?


Quote

One of the oldest dialogues between Christians and Muslims was the exchange between the Emperor Leo III (before his iconoclams) and the Caliph Umar II.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1508294
When Umar II brought up all the sects of Christianity, which he numbered as 72 (from Muslim tradition, a confusion between the 72 nations that the 72 Apostles were sent to), Leo points out that Christianity from the start was among many languages and peoples and nations and as such over six centuries different sects would appear, but Islam was only one century old, sprung from only one people and language (which people and language, btw, included Leo: he was originally named Kanon and from Syria), and yet was already in a myriad of sects killing each other.  Leo also points out that the sects of Christianity die out (the only one which survives from Leo's time is the Nestorians), whereas the sects of Islam of its first generation, Shi'ite, Sunni (actually more accurately called Ijmaa'ii) and Khariji are still among us.

The Church of the NT worships as the Hebrew Church of the OT, just fulfilled. The Light has come, shadows disappear.


Alhamdulillah, 90% of Muslims practise the religion according to the Sunna and the consensus of the Nation's scholars, and that was acchieved even though there were never a central spiritual authority and hardly a tempoal one. On the other hand, what exactly is the percentage of Christians which are Orthodox? How many Orthodox Churches out there. How many fights were there between Greeks, Copts, Russians etc about which ones will sit in which spot in the church of the Holy Sepulchre?

Alhamdulillah.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2010, 10:04:17 AM »

The best of Creation, the one from who lights were split and secrets were divided, and on whom the knowledge of Adam descended, the one by the beauty of whom the gardens of the heavens are bright and the parterres of the Earth are vivid by the the overflow of his light only thought what the Prophets before him instructed, that the Almighty alone is worthy of worship. Though the difference that all of the messages of the previous Prophets were aimed at specific peoples, mainly the Israelities (including that of Christ), whereas the Mohammadan message is universal.

Bahais claim and teach the same about their faith and prophet. So what?

The Almighty alone is worthy of worship, but you worship a false prophet who speaks on behalf of the moon god.

The Qur'an says for itself that it is a reminder for Mohammad and his folk. How can it be universal then? Mohammad's little world contained only his folk? I see. ::)

It's for that reason that when Judaics kept their religion to themselves and didn't aim at propagating it, Judaism was able to maintain its purity and unity. When Christianity was spread to the gentiles it knew all kinds of deviations to the degree that there are Churches by thousands non of whom worships God like the Israelites did.

Put the blame on your imcompetent moon god, who failed to preserve his message and made things all the words when he attempted to correct his mistake 600 years later.  :laugh:
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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #70 on: July 13, 2010, 10:31:27 AM »
Bahais claim and teach the same about their faith and prophet. So what?

Bahaism has no raison d'etre whatsoever, everything that it could claim to represent was already fulfilled by Islam as at is a strong and firm universal religion where God is worshipped and the Law is practised.

Quote
The Qur'an says for itself that it is a reminder for Mohammad and his folk. How can it be universal then? Mohammad's little world contained only his folk? I see. ::)

We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures. (21:107)

Quote
Put the blame on your imcompetent moon god, who failed to preserve his message and made things all the words when he attempted to correct his mistake 600 years later.  :laugh:

As you should believe, nothing happens without the will of God or against it. God sent his messages and gave humans the choice between following them or not. Christians are to be blamed for the deviation from Christ's message, like Hebrews are to be blamed for worshipping the golden calf.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #71 on: July 13, 2010, 10:38:18 AM »
Muslims have indeed heard Christ's calling, and they have answered.

May the Almighty resurrect us next to this Prophets.


This must be the joke of the day.  ;D

The person you heard and responded to was not Christ, but Mohammad. He lived 600 years after Christ and His Church, and tried to replace Christ's teaching with his evil and mundane ideology.

The best of Creation, the one from who lights were split and secrets were divided, and on whom the knowledge of Adam descended, the one by the beauty of whom the gardens of the heavens are bright and the parterres of the Earth are vivid by the the overflow of his light only thought what the Prophets before him instructed, that the Almighty alone is worthy of worship. Though the difference that all of the messages of the previous Prophets were aimed at specific peoples, mainly the Israelities (including that of Christ), whereas the Mohammadan message is universal.

Odd that for a universal message, it can only be in Arabic, whereas Christ sent the Holy Spirit down upond the Apostles to proclaim the Gospel in all languages to the ends of the earth.


Actually, the fact that Islam and Judaism have a strict position about the ecclesiastical stature of Arabic and Hebrew is part of the reason why they were able to mainain their purity.

LOL.  Rabbinic Judaism isn't the religion of the Ancient Hebrews, and no sect of Islam has maintained an imagined "purity" from the time of the Prophet and Companions, unless expansive wars of religion against the outside and killing each other in the inside of the Dar al-Islam count.

Quote
That. Also, let us not forget that Orthodox churches also have ecclesiastical language. We are willing to take Protestant positions to bling ourselves, aren't we?

Actually the Protestant view of the Masoretic OT and Aland/Nestle Greek NT resembles the Muslim position on the Quranic text.

We have several ecclesiastical languages (including Arabic). One at least for each nation.


Quote
One of the oldest dialogues between Christians and Muslims was the exchange between the Emperor Leo III (before his iconoclams) and the Caliph Umar II.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1508294
When Umar II brought up all the sects of Christianity, which he numbered as 72 (from Muslim tradition, a confusion between the 72 nations that the 72 Apostles were sent to), Leo points out that Christianity from the start was among many languages and peoples and nations and as such over six centuries different sects would appear, but Islam was only one century old, sprung from only one people and language (which people and language, btw, included Leo: he was originally named Kanon and from Syria), and yet was already in a myriad of sects killing each other.  Leo also points out that the sects of Christianity die out (the only one which survives from Leo's time is the Nestorians), whereas the sects of Islam of its first generation, Shi'ite, Sunni (actually more accurately called Ijmaa'ii) and Khariji are still among us.

The Church of the NT worships as the Hebrew Church of the OT, just fulfilled. The Light has come, shadows disappear.

Alhamdulillah, 90% of Muslims practise the religion according to the Sunna and the consensus of the Nation's scholars, and that was acchieved even though there were never a central spiritual authority and hardly a tempoal one. [/quote]

Really?  I knew those in Jordan, who, because they prayed according to the Maliki madhhab, the local Muslims refused to associate with them.  Pakistan has declared the Ahmadiyya non-Muslim.  Then their is the problems between the various Sufi tariqahs and the Ijmaa'i 'ulamaa'

As for central authority, there was one from the time of Muhammad to fall of the Umayyads (who imposed the Quran text as we have it on the Muslims, amongst other things). After that, the 'Abbasids ruled with an iron fist except in your neck of the woods, which became the lair of all sorts of discontents until the Murabitah and Muwahhiduun homogenized the lot into Ijmaa'i, specifically Maliki, Islam. And the caliphs and their successors exercised the authority to appoint qadis, extend patronage, commit persecusion (remember the Mihmah?). Several centuries of that, and then the Ottomans to cap it off, more than enough to impose some order.

Quote
On the other hand, what exactly is the percentage of Christians which are Orthodox? How many Orthodox Churches out there.

15 Autocephalous Chruches, and unlike your four madhhab, a bishop can go from any one to another, and a communicant in one is a communicant in the other 14.

Percentagewise, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church includes about 10%, second largest communion after the Vatican. But if numbers counted, why would you be Maliki, as it is followed only by 15% of the Muslims.

Quote
How many fights were there between Greeks, Copts, Russians etc about which ones will sit in which spot in the church of the Holy Sepulchre?
Between the Russians and Greeks, none. In fact, the fighting over "spots" didn't happen until the Muslims came, and especially after the Muslim rulers gave the keys to the Muslim families who have them now.  Gave the opportunity for the unconverted part of the Christian.

How many times did the Muslims destroy the Ka'bah in your fitnah's?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #72 on: July 13, 2010, 10:42:34 AM »
Bahais claim and teach the same about their faith and prophet. So what?

Bahaism has no raison d'etre whatsoever, everything that it could claim to represent was already fulfilled by Islam as at is a strong and firm universal religion where God is worshipped and the Law is practised.

Islam has no raison d'etre whatsoever, everything that it could claim to represent was already fillfilled by Christianity (or at least, according to what the Quran claims it preached, Judaism) as it is the strong and firm unversal religion where God is worshipped in Spirit and Truth and the higher Law practised (or at least proclaimed: humans still have the struggle with the Old Adam).

Quote
Quote
The Qur'an says for itself that it is a reminder for Mohammad and his folk. How can it be universal then? Mohammad's little world contained only his folk? I see. ::)

We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures. (21:107)

Quote
Put the blame on your imcompetent moon god, who failed to preserve his message and made things all the words when he attempted to correct his mistake 600 years later.  :laugh:

As you should believe, nothing happens without the will of God or against it. God sent his messages and gave humans the choice between following them or not. Christians are to be blamed for the deviation from Christ's message, like Hebrews are to be blamed for worshipping the golden calf.

And Muslims for spreading the report "I [Muhammad] am Ahmad without the "m" [i.e. "Ahad" "One"=God]" anaa aHmadu bi-laa miim.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #73 on: July 13, 2010, 10:56:29 AM »

Bahaism has no raison d'etre whatsoever, everything that it could claim to represent was already fulfilled by Islam as at is a strong and firm universal religion where God is worshipped and the Law is practised.

This is YOUR view. Bahais think and believe otherwise.

We Christians say that Islam is not from above because everything found fulfillment and perfection in Christ:

For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)

Why the need for a new revelation and prophet when we have the eternal Word of God, who came in flesh and saved us?

We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures. (21:107)

Read also the following verses:

And lo! it is in truth a Reminder for thee and for thy folk; and ye will be questioned. (Surah 43:44)

And thus We have inspired in thee a Lecture in Arabic, that thou mayst warn the mother-town and those around it, and mayst warn of a day of assembling whereof there is no doubt. A host will be in the Garden, and a host of them in the Flame. (Surah 42:7)

And thou was not beside the Mount when We did call; but (the knowledge of it is) a mercy from thy Lord that thou mayst warn a folk unto whom no warner came before thee, that haply they may give heed. (Surah 28:46)



As you should believe, nothing happens without the will of God or against it. God sent his messages and gave humans the choice between following them or not. Christians are to be blamed for the deviation from Christ's message, like Hebrews are to be blamed for worshipping the golden calf.

Why the need to send a message then? So that people can distinguish truth from falsehood or be guided into falsehood? As I said, you have weird ideas about God.

More to the point, SOME of the Hebrews worshipped the golden calf, but they were instantly guided back to the truth. They did not have to wait 600 years to know about their mistake. There was no time in Israel when the truth of God was utterly lost or distorted.  :laugh:
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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #74 on: July 13, 2010, 11:01:58 AM »

LOL.  Rabbinic Judaism isn't the religion of the Ancient Hebrews, and no sect of Islam has maintained an imagined "purity" from the time of the Prophet and Companions, unless expansive wars of religion against the outside and killing each other in the inside of the Dar al-Islam count.


So you're saying Christianity, unlike Islam and Judaism, maintained its purity? Whatever you wish to say!

Quote
Really?  I knew those in Jordan, who, because they prayed according to the Maliki madhhab, the local Muslims refused to associate with them.  Pakistan has declared the Ahmadiyya non-Muslim.  Then their is the problems between the various Sufi tariqahs and the Ijmaa'i 'ulamaa'

As for central authority, there was one from the time of Muhammad to fall of the Umayyads (who imposed the Quran text as we have it on the Muslims, amongst other things). After that, the 'Abbasids ruled with an iron fist except in your neck of the woods, which became the lair of all sorts of discontents until the Murabitah and Muwahhiduun homogenized the lot into Ijmaa'i, specifically Maliki, Islam. And the caliphs and their successors exercised the authority to appoint qadis, extend patronage, commit persecusion (remember the Mihmah?). Several centuries of that, and then the Ottomans to cap it off, more than enough to impose some order.

All four madhabs, and aslo the madhabs which disappeared to due to lack of followship like that of Sufyan Al-Tawty, are accepted according the absolute consensus. It's not uncommon to find a scholar versed in more than one madhab. A grand sholar can make ijtihad and contradict his madhab, though we don't have scholars jumping from one madhab to an other, simply because, like I said, they are all accepted.

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #75 on: July 13, 2010, 11:25:03 AM »

LOL.  Rabbinic Judaism isn't the religion of the Ancient Hebrews, and no sect of Islam has maintained an imagined "purity" from the time of the Prophet and Companions, unless expansive wars of religion against the outside and killing each other in the inside of the Dar al-Islam count.


So you're saying Christianity, unlike Islam and Judaism, maintained its purity? Whatever you wish to say!

I wish to say the Truth. Which I did.

Quote
Really?  I knew those in Jordan, who, because they prayed according to the Maliki madhhab, the local Muslims refused to associate with them.  Pakistan has declared the Ahmadiyya non-Muslim.  Then their is the problems between the various Sufi tariqahs and the Ijmaa'i 'ulamaa'

As for central authority, there was one from the time of Muhammad to fall of the Umayyads (who imposed the Quran text as we have it on the Muslims, amongst other things). After that, the 'Abbasids ruled with an iron fist except in your neck of the woods, which became the lair of all sorts of discontents until the Murabitah and Muwahhiduun homogenized the lot into Ijmaa'i, specifically Maliki, Islam. And the caliphs and their successors exercised the authority to appoint qadis, extend patronage, commit persecusion (remember the Mihmah?). Several centuries of that, and then the Ottomans to cap it off, more than enough to impose some order.

All four madhabs, and aslo the madhabs which disappeared to due to lack of followship like that of Sufyan Al-Tawty, are accepted according the absolute consensus. It's not uncommon to find a scholar versed in more than one madhab. A grand sholar can make ijtihad and contradict his madhab, though we don't have scholars jumping from one madhab to an other, simply because, like I said, they are all accepted.[/quote]
Such is the modus vivendi of the theory.  It isn't consistently adhered to.  Btw, Shi'ites, like the al-Shahid al-Thani, also got ijaazah to make ijtihad in the four Ijmaa'i madhhabs.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #76 on: July 13, 2010, 11:38:40 AM »

LOL.  Rabbinic Judaism isn't the religion of the Ancient Hebrews, and no sect of Islam has maintained an imagined "purity" from the time of the Prophet and Companions, unless expansive wars of religion against the outside and killing each other in the inside of the Dar al-Islam count.


So you're saying Christianity, unlike Islam and Judaism, maintained its purity? Whatever you wish to say!

I wish to say the Truth. Which I did.

Quote
Really?  I knew those in Jordan, who, because they prayed according to the Maliki madhhab, the local Muslims refused to associate with them.  Pakistan has declared the Ahmadiyya non-Muslim.  Then their is the problems between the various Sufi tariqahs and the Ijmaa'i 'ulamaa'

As for central authority, there was one from the time of Muhammad to fall of the Umayyads (who imposed the Quran text as we have it on the Muslims, amongst other things). After that, the 'Abbasids ruled with an iron fist except in your neck of the woods, which became the lair of all sorts of discontents until the Murabitah and Muwahhiduun homogenized the lot into Ijmaa'i, specifically Maliki, Islam. And the caliphs and their successors exercised the authority to appoint qadis, extend patronage, commit persecusion (remember the Mihmah?). Several centuries of that, and then the Ottomans to cap it off, more than enough to impose some order.

All four madhabs, and aslo the madhabs which disappeared to due to lack of followship like that of Sufyan Al-Tawty, are accepted according the absolute consensus. It's not uncommon to find a scholar versed in more than one madhab. A grand sholar can make ijtihad and contradict his madhab, though we don't have scholars jumping from one madhab to an other, simply because, like I said, they are all accepted.
Such is the modus vivendi of the theory.  It isn't consistently adhered to.  Btw, Shi'ites, like the al-Shahid al-Thani, also got ijaazah to make ijtihad in the four Ijmaa'i madhhabs.
[/quote]

Nothing for me to add. Though I'd like it if you could specify which is the misspelling you found in the picture, or if you were just mistaken.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2010, 11:48:58 AM »
Nothing for me to add. Though I'd like it if you could specify which is the misspelling you found in the picture, or if you were just mistaken.

You got it:
There's no misspelling there, the text in the image is  لو تعلمون ما أعلم لضحكتم قليلا ولبكيتم كثيرا, which means If you would know know what I know you youl've laughed a little and cried a lot (personal translation), and it's part of a hadith, perhaps he has the Quran passages elsewhere. The two letters ضح in the middle of the sentence are not clear due to the skin in the knee area.
though it still doesn't look like  لضحكتم  to me. But as I said, and you agree, it's not clear.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2010, 11:55:20 AM »
Nothing for me to add. Though I'd like it if you could specify which is the misspelling you found in the picture, or if you were just mistaken.

You got it:
There's no misspelling there, the text in the image is  لو تعلمون ما أعلم لضحكتم قليلا ولبكيتم كثيرا, which means If you would know know what I know you youl've laughed a little and cried a lot (personal translation), and it's part of a hadith, perhaps he has the Quran passages elsewhere. The two letters ضح in the middle of the sentence are not clear due to the skin in the knee area.
though it still doesn't look like  لضحكتم  to me. But as I said, and you agree, it's not clear.

Tamam, afandem. :)

edit: Do you know what's the etymology of afandem? It doesn't seem to be Turkish
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 11:56:21 AM by Mekki »
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Offline Marc1152

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #79 on: July 13, 2010, 12:19:12 PM »
Just because some super natural event is not a fraud, doesn't make it wholesome or good. Why do people forget that there are all kinds of demonic forces out there who are always trying to divert people from correct faith in God?

And then there is the tactic of damning with faint praise such as trying to convince people that Christ was something less then fully God and a just prophet. We need to pray for people who do this as they are flirting with eternal damnation.

Oh and.... Conservative piety is often used as a cover for false religion. Look at Mormons. They lead a conservative family oriented life in cultural terms but practice a false religion. Salvation is not won by the outer appearance of faith but rather by actual faith in the One True God in Trinity. Even if we fall short in our piety and others put on a better show of it, we still win our crown by  Faith...  
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 12:20:04 PM by Marc1152 »
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #80 on: July 13, 2010, 12:27:00 PM »
I hope the parents would send the child to have Islamic education, a countless number of people would be more than willing to pay for any fees or expenses. May he benefit the Nation and be our aid against the adversaries.
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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #81 on: July 13, 2010, 01:11:40 PM »
I hope the parents would send the child to have Islamic education, a countless number of people would be more than willing to pay for any fees or expenses. May he benefit the Nation and be our aid against the adversaries.
Since the child is in Dagestan I have to hope for the opposite.  Unless of course, the aid you hope for is peace between the nations.  Then I am all for it.  But based on the history of the region, the Moslems will only allow the Christians in the region to have peace when they are under the ground.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2010, 02:58:40 PM »
The followers of Mohammed only understand Christianity as it was given them by their own leaders and teachers to understand, not as it actually is. One can find corroborative, historical evidence of the witness of Orthodox Christianity, the writing of the Scriptures, and the teaching of the apostles and their successors from non-partisan studies. So, we'll ask them to do what we ask the Jews to do (produce the body). Let the followers of Mohammed produce actual evidence of their claims that there was corruption in the way they claim, or else let them worship Christ with us, for it was not a mere man who was born without seed from the Ever-Virgin Mary, but the Son of God, equal to the Father in all things, as it was revealed to us by Christ and his holy apostles. Otherwise, there can be no real conversation.
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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #83 on: July 13, 2010, 03:24:05 PM »
The followers of Mohammed only understand Christianity as it was given them by their own leaders and teachers to understand, not as it actually is. One can find corroborative, historical evidence of the witness of Orthodox Christianity, the writing of the Scriptures, and the teaching of the apostles and their successors from non-partisan studies. So, we'll ask them to do what we ask the Jews to do (produce the body). Let the followers of Mohammed produce actual evidence of their claims that there was corruption in the way they claim, or else let them worship Christ with us, for it was not a mere man who was born without seed from the Ever-Virgin Mary, but the Son of God, equal to the Father in all things, as it was revealed to us by Christ and his holy apostles. Otherwise, there can be no real conversation.

The evidence is Christianity itself, a non-Biblical religion that produced deviation after deviation to the degree that there are Churches by thousands now, all of them based on doctrines that an Israelites would clench for merely hearing them. The nature of this religion allow for the satanic, hedonistic modern world to be Born out of its womb.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2010, 03:27:07 PM »
Mekki, based on the flimsy evidence you provided, one can say the same of Mohammedanism.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #85 on: July 13, 2010, 03:33:56 PM »

The evidence is Christianity itself, a non-Biblical religion that produced deviation after deviation to the degree that there are Churches by thousands now, all of them based on doctrines that an Israelites would clench for merely hearing them. The nature of this religion allow for the satanic, hedonistic modern world to be Born out of its womb.

The Jews and Christians of Mohammad's period knew well that Mohammad was the guy who fabricated a scripture and ascribed it to his imaginary deity in order to make himself the last prophet.

Mohammad distorted the Bible and deviated from its basic teachings when he claimed to get revelation from his imaginary deity. He was Satanic and hedonistic to the extent that he described Heaven as a place where believers would sleep with virgins in return for their faith and good works on earth.
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Offline Cymbyz

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #86 on: July 13, 2010, 03:54:45 PM »
When I saw the title of this thread, I said to myself, "Ooooo, here we go again; more like 'Jesus on a piece of toast.'"  It's just the sort of thing that iconoclastic Fundamentalists go whoring after, which only proves that iconoclasm militates against human nature, and that the people who make such claims about seeing these "icons" are supremely gullible.
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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2010, 03:56:34 PM »
Mekki, based on the flimsy evidence you provided, one can say the same of Mohammedanism.

There's nothing in the fundamentals of Islam that is unbiblical.

Islam was able to maintain its unity and purity as it spread in space and as times went on, some which can't be said about Christianity. Alhamdulillah, 90% of Muslims practice the religion according to the Sunna of the Prophet and the consensus of the Nation's scholars.

We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).  (Quran 15:9)

If it was for Christianity, even if we were to assume that it's God's Religion, the message would completely disappear. Decadent Protestantism account for as much as half of Christians, while Orthodoxy and Catholicism have given in to the the modern secularist, humanist doctrines, all Traditionalist movements withing the two sects are looked upon in contempt by the overwhelming majority of both both clergy and laymen.

Hardly any Christian takes his religion seriously. Such basics of the religion as celibacy before marriage are regarded as a great curiosity.

It is absolutely inconceivable any Christian country will witness a Christian revival,  the concept of the "Church" as was known before is now regarded as a part of medieval history that can never be resurrected.

Indeed, alhamduillah for Islam.
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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2010, 04:08:05 PM »
The Jews and Christians of Mohammad's period knew well that Mohammad was the guy who fabricated a scripture and ascribed it to his imaginary deity in order to make himself the last prophet.

Did you know that Jews consider Christians, unlike Muslims, to be heathens? True story.

Islamic theology wen to on to have such great influence that major Christian and Jewish theologians like Maimonides and Aquinas were greatly influenced by Muslim writers.

Quote
Mohammad distorted the Bible and deviated from its basic teachings when he claimed to get revelation from his imaginary deity. He was Satanic and hedonistic to the extent that he described Heaven as a place where believers would sleep with virgins in return for their faith and good works on earth.

Beware! You are calling hedonistic the man who never missed a prayer (as hard as it is to do so concerning Islamic canonical prayer), not only that but he spent hours upon hours in non-canonical prayer every day. The man who spent days upon days eating nothing but rough bread, the man who never had fancy clothings nor build a mansion for himself even though he could have anything he wanted as was the ruler of all Arabia.
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Offline Mekki

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Re: Quran texts appear on baby's body in Dagestan
« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2010, 04:09:04 PM »
When I saw the title of this thread, I said to myself, "Ooooo, here we go again; more like 'Jesus on a piece of toast.'"  It's just the sort of thing that iconoclastic Fundamentalists go whoring after, which only proves that iconoclasm militates against human nature, and that the people who make such claims about seeing these "icons" are supremely gullible.

What did you think after watching it? This certainly looks nothing like Christ's face on a piece of toast.
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