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Author Topic: Wedding Bands, right hand or left hand as Orthodox Christians?  (Read 12596 times) Average Rating: 0
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orthonorm
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« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2012, 01:24:34 PM »

My husband's family is Greek, but my family is not (my immediate family converted to Orthodoxy about 15 years ago), so most of my side of our wedding guests were unfamiliar with the wedding service.  After the sacrament, the Bishop who married us gave a lovely explanation of some of the key elements of the service for those who were unfamiliar, and one of the things he addressed was the rings.  He said directly to my husband and I, "The Church has placed the rings on your right hands, for the reasons outlined in the prayers of the betrothal service...I hope you will keep them there." 

We had always planned to keep ours on the right hands, as do many of our Orthodox friends, but this enforced that decision.  I feel that it's nice to be able to discuss this curiosity with people who are unfamiliar with the practice, and to explain that Americans typically wear them on the left hands, but in many other nations, the right hand is traditional.  I personally keep my engagement ring on my left hand still, and keep my wedding band solo on my right hand.  (too much bling to combine the two, in my opinion! It also feels weird to have an empty left hand after always having my engagement ring there.)   Wink 

This is a fun topic of discussion...but the ring prayers are so beautiful in the betrothal service, that's what I want to reflect in wearing my wedding band where God and the Bishop and my koumbara placed it.  =)

Are engagement rings "Orthodox"?

This thread is full of utter nonsense.
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« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2012, 01:38:44 PM »

This thread is full of utter nonsense.

Why do you speak thusly, kind sir?
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« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2012, 01:44:32 PM »

My husband's family is Greek, but my family is not (my immediate family converted to Orthodoxy about 15 years ago), so most of my side of our wedding guests were unfamiliar with the wedding service.  After the sacrament, the Bishop who married us gave a lovely explanation of some of the key elements of the service for those who were unfamiliar, and one of the things he addressed was the rings.  He said directly to my husband and I, "The Church has placed the rings on your right hands, for the reasons outlined in the prayers of the betrothal service...I hope you will keep them there." 

We had always planned to keep ours on the right hands, as do many of our Orthodox friends, but this enforced that decision.  I feel that it's nice to be able to discuss this curiosity with people who are unfamiliar with the practice, and to explain that Americans typically wear them on the left hands, but in many other nations, the right hand is traditional.  I personally keep my engagement ring on my left hand still, and keep my wedding band solo on my right hand.  (too much bling to combine the two, in my opinion! It also feels weird to have an empty left hand after always having my engagement ring there.)   Wink 

This is a fun topic of discussion...but the ring prayers are so beautiful in the betrothal service, that's what I want to reflect in wearing my wedding band where God and the Bishop and my koumbara placed it.  =)

Are engagement rings "Orthodox"?

In the Syriac Tradition, yes. The Marriage service is composed of two orders, the Blessing of the Rings, which is what Westerners would consider the Engagement, and the Blessing of the Crowns, which is what Westerners would consider the Marriage Service "proper".
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« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2012, 02:37:37 PM »

My husband's family is Greek, but my family is not (my immediate family converted to Orthodoxy about 15 years ago), so most of my side of our wedding guests were unfamiliar with the wedding service.  After the sacrament, the Bishop who married us gave a lovely explanation of some of the key elements of the service for those who were unfamiliar, and one of the things he addressed was the rings.  He said directly to my husband and I, "The Church has placed the rings on your right hands, for the reasons outlined in the prayers of the betrothal service...I hope you will keep them there." 

We had always planned to keep ours on the right hands, as do many of our Orthodox friends, but this enforced that decision.  I feel that it's nice to be able to discuss this curiosity with people who are unfamiliar with the practice, and to explain that Americans typically wear them on the left hands, but in many other nations, the right hand is traditional.  I personally keep my engagement ring on my left hand still, and keep my wedding band solo on my right hand.  (too much bling to combine the two, in my opinion! It also feels weird to have an empty left hand after always having my engagement ring there.)   Wink 

This is a fun topic of discussion...but the ring prayers are so beautiful in the betrothal service, that's what I want to reflect in wearing my wedding band where God and the Bishop and my koumbara placed it.  =)

Are engagement rings "Orthodox"?

In the Syriac Tradition, yes. The Marriage service is composed of two orders, the Blessing of the Rings, which is what Westerners would consider the Engagement, and the Blessing of the Crowns, which is what Westerners would consider the Marriage Service "proper".

What about "bling"? I am guessing in the GOA tradition, yes, in the ROCOR tradition, no.
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« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2012, 03:46:05 PM »

My husband's family is Greek, but my family is not (my immediate family converted to Orthodoxy about 15 years ago), so most of my side of our wedding guests were unfamiliar with the wedding service.  After the sacrament, the Bishop who married us gave a lovely explanation of some of the key elements of the service for those who were unfamiliar, and one of the things he addressed was the rings.  He said directly to my husband and I, "The Church has placed the rings on your right hands, for the reasons outlined in the prayers of the betrothal service...I hope you will keep them there." 

We had always planned to keep ours on the right hands, as do many of our Orthodox friends, but this enforced that decision.  I feel that it's nice to be able to discuss this curiosity with people who are unfamiliar with the practice, and to explain that Americans typically wear them on the left hands, but in many other nations, the right hand is traditional.  I personally keep my engagement ring on my left hand still, and keep my wedding band solo on my right hand.  (too much bling to combine the two, in my opinion! It also feels weird to have an empty left hand after always having my engagement ring there.)   Wink 

This is a fun topic of discussion...but the ring prayers are so beautiful in the betrothal service, that's what I want to reflect in wearing my wedding band where God and the Bishop and my koumbara placed it.  =)

Are engagement rings "Orthodox"?

In the Syriac Tradition, yes. The Marriage service is composed of two orders, the Blessing of the Rings, which is what Westerners would consider the Engagement, and the Blessing of the Crowns, which is what Westerners would consider the Marriage Service "proper".

What about "bling"? I am guessing in the GOA tradition, yes, in the ROCOR tradition, no.

LOL. The rings are given during the betrothal service in every Byzantine tradition.
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« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2012, 04:17:47 PM »

What about "bling"? I am guessing in the GOA tradition, yes, in the ROCOR tradition, no.

My priest in the ROCOR wore his around his neck on the chain for his Baptismal cross.  That is also where I wear mine, and have since I converted.
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« Reply #51 on: August 31, 2012, 05:40:43 PM »

My husband's family is Greek, but my family is not (my immediate family converted to Orthodoxy about 15 years ago), so most of my side of our wedding guests were unfamiliar with the wedding service.  After the sacrament, the Bishop who married us gave a lovely explanation of some of the key elements of the service for those who were unfamiliar, and one of the things he addressed was the rings.  He said directly to my husband and I, "The Church has placed the rings on your right hands, for the reasons outlined in the prayers of the betrothal service...I hope you will keep them there." 

We had always planned to keep ours on the right hands, as do many of our Orthodox friends, but this enforced that decision.  I feel that it's nice to be able to discuss this curiosity with people who are unfamiliar with the practice, and to explain that Americans typically wear them on the left hands, but in many other nations, the right hand is traditional.  I personally keep my engagement ring on my left hand still, and keep my wedding band solo on my right hand.  (too much bling to combine the two, in my opinion! It also feels weird to have an empty left hand after always having my engagement ring there.)   Wink 

This is a fun topic of discussion...but the ring prayers are so beautiful in the betrothal service, that's what I want to reflect in wearing my wedding band where God and the Bishop and my koumbara placed it.  =)

Are engagement rings "Orthodox"?

In the Syriac Tradition, yes. The Marriage service is composed of two orders, the Blessing of the Rings, which is what Westerners would consider the Engagement, and the Blessing of the Crowns, which is what Westerners would consider the Marriage Service "proper".

What about "bling"? I am guessing in the GOA tradition, yes, in the ROCOR tradition, no.

Lol.....I'm not sure about the ROCOR bling regulations, but my ring was my husband's yiayia's, so it's special bling....
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« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2012, 06:02:02 PM »

So that's why my priest is always wearing his ring on the right.

Do people take off their wedding bands ever?
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« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2012, 06:06:39 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?
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« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2012, 06:08:21 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?

The left is the side of Satan. And crossing ourselves is a sign of ascetism, not easiness.
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« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2012, 06:10:55 PM »

Do people take off their wedding bands ever?

I very rarely wore my wedding ring, but that's because I don't like jewelry generally. If I could go back and redo everything I'd always wear it and never take it off.
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« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2012, 06:52:29 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?

The left is the side of Satan
Yet Theotokos is usually found on the left side of the Church in the EO tradition...
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« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2012, 06:53:15 PM »

If I got married, I would wear my ring on the right hand and just keep it there. All other discussion would be moot.
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« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2012, 07:42:03 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?

The left is the side of Satan. And crossing ourselves is a sign of ascetism, not easiness.

LOL! Nice.

Being sinister myself, I do retain the right to take offense at this at a later date.
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« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2012, 07:45:45 PM »

Can we talk about a tangential thing for a moment?

Is it better to go into job interviews not wearing a wedding band?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 07:46:00 PM by Achronos » Logged

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« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2012, 09:30:33 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?

The left is the side of Satan
Yet Theotokos is usually found on the left side of the Church in the EO tradition...

Many Protestants have noticed that . . .
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« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2012, 10:28:44 PM »

Can we talk about a tangential thing for a moment?

Is it better to go into job interviews not wearing a wedding band?

Depends on the job.
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« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2012, 06:14:01 AM »

Can we talk about a tangential thing for a moment?

Is it better to go into job interviews not wearing a wedding band?

depends if you're hitting on your boss...
 Wink

as for the main topic, most copts i know get engaged with the ring on the right and move it to the left at marriage.
there is not a separate engagement ring (except for people wanting to be more modern).
most austrians (catholic, protestant, atheist etc) wear the ring on the right, so it is not a straightforward orthodox / non orthodox thing.

i have now found a source that confirms that the ring is worn on the left hand in our tradition:
http://www.stgeorgephilly.org/?page_id=2033

personally, it is more important what is in your heart than on your hand.
 Smiley

edit: in romania, the ring is worn on the left hand by all our orthodox and protestant and atheist friends!
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« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2012, 07:08:00 AM »

Can we talk about a tangential thing for a moment?

Is it better to go into job interviews not wearing a wedding band?

No.  It's much better to be wearing a wedding ring.  Marriage is perceived as demonstrating stability.

I'm a retired HR professional, a Labor Relations Officer, who conducted and participated in innumerable job interviews.
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« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2012, 08:45:40 AM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?

The left is the side of Satan. And crossing ourselves is a sign of ascetism, not easiness.

LOL! Nice.

Being sinister myself, I do retain the right to take offense at this at a later date.

I am also sinister, and also retain this right. (pun intended)
Thank goodness my left hand was not tied to a board as a child so I'd learn to write with the "correct" hand....
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« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2012, 10:50:23 AM »

Don't have your wedding ring on the hand you wipe yourself with.  Isn't that what the tradition is about? At least in part?
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« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2012, 12:35:51 PM »

I say, don't let the errant Western Christians change what we Orthodox Christians know to be correct.  Leave the rings on the right hand where the priest placed them and where the sponsor left them after the exchange.

I say economy applies here.

No need for economy. Finnish EOs are just as marginal as American EOs are and we still have it on the right hand.
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« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2012, 01:37:02 PM »

Just came across this thread. We were married in a Civil ceremony in Kyiv. I put the ring on my wife's right hand, and she put it on my left hand. My idea was that it was a symbolic joining of East and West. Later, I was baptized in the UOC and I started wearing mine on the right hand as well. Not only does it fit with UOC tradition but, as a left-hander I find it more convenient. Rarely does anyone question about why I wear my ring on my right hand. When they do, a simple explanation about my faith suffices.
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« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2012, 01:39:11 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?
How does the presence of a ring make crossing oneself with that hand more difficult?
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« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2012, 03:25:08 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?
How does the presence of a ring make crossing oneself with that hand more difficult?

Try it, it does.
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« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2012, 03:31:55 PM »

Everyone here wears their on right hand. The only one exception are some Orthodox priests who switch theirs after ordination.
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« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2012, 04:59:19 PM »

Do people take off their wedding bands ever?

I very rarely wore my wedding ring, but that's because I don't like jewelry generally. If I could go back and redo everything I'd always wear it and never take it off.

Thanks for putting it in perspective.
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« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2012, 07:10:17 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?
How does the presence of a ring make crossing oneself with that hand more difficult?

Try it, it does.

No, it doesn't. And I never take my wedding band off.
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« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2012, 07:35:04 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?
How does the presence of a ring make crossing oneself with that hand more difficult?

Try it, it does.

Is your ring that big, or are you that weak?
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« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2012, 08:07:26 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?
How does the presence of a ring make crossing oneself with that hand more difficult?

Try it, it does.

Is your ring that big, or are you that weak?

Being nice as usual, I see.
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« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2012, 08:15:28 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?
How does the presence of a ring make crossing oneself with that hand more difficult?

Try it, it does.

Is your ring that big, or are you that weak?

Being nice as usual, I see.

No, seriously.  I have arthritis in both shoulders and in my right elbow.  I would have no trouble making the sign of the cross with my right hand if I were holding a padlock.  So, my question remains; is the ring that big, or is there some kind of physical defect that has weakened the arm to this point.  I have tried it, and wearing a ring (or for that matter, holding a padlock) had no effect whatever on my ability to make the sign of the cross.  I am not being mean, just calling you out on a particularly stupid statement.
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« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2012, 08:47:04 PM »

Now here is a fellow who may have a problem making the sign of the cross due to his rings.
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« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2012, 09:31:09 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?
How does the presence of a ring make crossing oneself with that hand more difficult?

Try it, it does.

Is your ring that big, or are you that weak?

Being nice as usual, I see.

No, seriously.  I have arthritis in both shoulders and in my right elbow.  I would have no trouble making the sign of the cross with my right hand if I were holding a padlock.  So, my question remains; is the ring that big, or is there some kind of physical defect that has weakened the arm to this point.  I have tried it, and wearing a ring (or for that matter, holding a padlock) had no effect whatever on my ability to make the sign of the cross.  I am not being mean, just calling you out on a particularly stupid statement.

Ok, I'll tell my hand it's being stupid. Thanks.
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« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2012, 11:54:30 PM »

Wouldn't wearing them on the left hands actually be the better choice so that we can Cross ourselves easier with our right hands?
How does the presence of a ring make crossing oneself with that hand more difficult?

Try it, it does.

Is your ring that big, or are you that weak?

Being nice as usual, I see.

No, seriously.  I have arthritis in both shoulders and in my right elbow.  I would have no trouble making the sign of the cross with my right hand if I were holding a padlock.  So, my question remains; is the ring that big, or is there some kind of physical defect that has weakened the arm to this point.  I have tried it, and wearing a ring (or for that matter, holding a padlock) had no effect whatever on my ability to make the sign of the cross.  I am not being mean, just calling you out on a particularly stupid statement.

Ok, I'll tell my hand it's being stupid. Thanks.

You're welcome.  One day your hand will thank you.
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« Reply #79 on: September 02, 2012, 01:30:58 AM »

Why do the Orthodox wear wedding rings at all given the pagan origins and scriptural reference to not wear gold or costly apparel?
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« Reply #80 on: September 02, 2012, 07:49:42 AM »

Why do the Orthodox wear wedding rings at all given the pagan origins and scriptural reference to not wear gold or costly apparel?

There is nothing pagan about wearing a wedding band. From the Orthodox betrothal service, which precedes the crowning service:

Quote
O Lord our God, You journeyed with the servant of the Patriarch Abraham in Mesopotamia when he was sent to obtain a wife for his lord Isaac, and by means of drawing water You revealed that he should betroth Rebecca. Bless the betrothal of Your servants N. and M. and make firm the word that they have spoken. Confirm them with the holy unity that comes from You. For it was You who in the beginning created male and female, and it is by You that woman is linked to man as a helper and for the continuation of the human race. Therefore, O Lord our God, who sent truth out to Your inheritance and Your promise to your servants, our fathers, Your elect in every generation, look on Your servant N. and your servant M., and make firm their betrothal in faith and concord and truth and love.

For it is You, Lord, who declared that times a pledge is to be given and made firm in everything. By a ring authority was given to Joseph in Egypt. By a ring Daniel was glorified in the country of Babylon. By a ring the truth of Thamar was revealed. By a ring our heavenly Father showed compassion to the prodigal son. For He said, ‘Put a ring on his hand and bring out and slay the fatted calf, and let us eat and be joyful’.

It was Your right hand, Lord, that armed Moses at the Red Sea, for through Your true word the heavens were made firm and the earth set on its foundations. And the right hand of Your servants will be blessed by Your mighty word and by Your upraised arm. Therefore, Master, with Your heavenly blessing now bless also this putting-on of rings. And may an Angel of the Lord go before them all the days of their lives.

For You are the One who blesses and sanctifies all things, and to You we give glory, to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and for ever, and to the ages of ages.

This beautiful prayer also proclaims that the rings be placed on the right hand, and explains why.




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« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2012, 12:56:02 PM »

Why do the Orthodox wear wedding rings at all given the pagan origins and scriptural reference to not wear gold or costly apparel?

There is nothing pagan about wearing a wedding band. From the Orthodox betrothal service, which precedes the crowning service:

Quote
O Lord our God, You journeyed with the servant of the Patriarch Abraham in Mesopotamia when he was sent to obtain a wife for his lord Isaac, and by means of drawing water You revealed that he should betroth Rebecca. Bless the betrothal of Your servants N. and M. and make firm the word that they have spoken. Confirm them with the holy unity that comes from You. For it was You who in the beginning created male and female, and it is by You that woman is linked to man as a helper and for the continuation of the human race. Therefore, O Lord our God, who sent truth out to Your inheritance and Your promise to your servants, our fathers, Your elect in every generation, look on Your servant N. and your servant M., and make firm their betrothal in faith and concord and truth and love.

For it is You, Lord, who declared that times a pledge is to be given and made firm in everything. By a ring authority was given to Joseph in Egypt. By a ring Daniel was glorified in the country of Babylon. By a ring the truth of Thamar was revealed. By a ring our heavenly Father showed compassion to the prodigal son. For He said, ‘Put a ring on his hand and bring out and slay the fatted calf, and let us eat and be joyful’.

It was Your right hand, Lord, that armed Moses at the Red Sea, for through Your true word the heavens were made firm and the earth set on its foundations. And the right hand of Your servants will be blessed by Your mighty word and by Your upraised arm. Therefore, Master, with Your heavenly blessing now bless also this putting-on of rings. And may an Angel of the Lord go before them all the days of their lives.

For You are the One who blesses and sanctifies all things, and to You we give glory, to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and for ever, and to the ages of ages.

This beautiful prayer also proclaims that the rings be placed on the right hand, and explains why.






Yes, by the prayer itself, it shows the paganism of the ring within the scriptures.

Joseph was given a ring by a pagan Pharoah to represent his authority.
Daniel was given a ring by a pagan Babylonian king to glorify him.
Moses was given a ring by Pharaoh, another Pagan.
Thamar was given a ring to coax the truth out of her after her brother raped her.

So that leaves the prodigal son, a parable and not an exact story.  it showed absolute forgiveness and willingness to give so much wealth to one who betrays you (including killing the fattened calf to eat).  Being lost & found again in true repentance.  

Then there are other scriptures which command people not to adorn themselves in riches - specifically gold.

Despite the beauty of the prayer, it speaks of so many pagan given rings and a coaxing ring, and a parable ring that didn't really happen as the other stories did.

Why would the Orthodox church accept something so ingrained in paganism and even include the acts of pagans giving rings in their own service to symbolize what they are doing?

It goes from a "pledge" to "a ring"?    Also the consideration that many rings are gold & costly, which again is against what is commanded in the scriptures.  If somebody could please explain why this occurs I'd appreciate it.  
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 12:56:42 PM by yeshuaisiam » Logged

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« Reply #82 on: September 02, 2012, 01:48:15 PM »

The pagan Greeks gave us the Greek alphabet. The pagan Egyptians gave us beer, and flush toilets, which is probably not a coincidence. The pre-Christian American Indians gave us popcorn.

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« Reply #83 on: September 02, 2012, 02:08:20 PM »

@yeshuaisiam, my favourite Anabaptist: Please, do not cross the line here.
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« Reply #84 on: September 02, 2012, 02:18:07 PM »

Something's origin is entirely irrelevant to its appropriateness, goodness, beauty, nobility, etc. etc.
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« Reply #85 on: September 03, 2012, 11:45:22 AM »

Why do the Orthodox wear wedding rings at all given the pagan origins and scriptural reference to not wear gold or costly apparel?

There is nothing pagan about wearing a wedding band. From the Orthodox betrothal service, which precedes the crowning service:

Quote
O Lord our God, You journeyed with the servant of the Patriarch Abraham in Mesopotamia when he was sent to obtain a wife for his lord Isaac, and by means of drawing water You revealed that he should betroth Rebecca. Bless the betrothal of Your servants N. and M. and make firm the word that they have spoken. Confirm them with the holy unity that comes from You. For it was You who in the beginning created male and female, and it is by You that woman is linked to man as a helper and for the continuation of the human race. Therefore, O Lord our God, who sent truth out to Your inheritance and Your promise to your servants, our fathers, Your elect in every generation, look on Your servant N. and your servant M., and make firm their betrothal in faith and concord and truth and love.

For it is You, Lord, who declared that times a pledge is to be given and made firm in everything. By a ring authority was given to Joseph in Egypt. By a ring Daniel was glorified in the country of Babylon. By a ring the truth of Thamar was revealed. By a ring our heavenly Father showed compassion to the prodigal son. For He said, ‘Put a ring on his hand and bring out and slay the fatted calf, and let us eat and be joyful’.

It was Your right hand, Lord, that armed Moses at the Red Sea, for through Your true word the heavens were made firm and the earth set on its foundations. And the right hand of Your servants will be blessed by Your mighty word and by Your upraised arm. Therefore, Master, with Your heavenly blessing now bless also this putting-on of rings. And may an Angel of the Lord go before them all the days of their lives.

For You are the One who blesses and sanctifies all things, and to You we give glory, to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and for ever, and to the ages of ages.

This beautiful prayer also proclaims that the rings be placed on the right hand, and explains why.






Yes, by the prayer itself, it shows the paganism of the ring within the scriptures.

Joseph was given a ring by a pagan Pharoah to represent his authority.
Daniel was given a ring by a pagan Babylonian king to glorify him.
Moses was given a ring by Pharaoh, another Pagan.
Thamar was given a ring to coax the truth out of her after her brother raped her.

So that leaves the prodigal son, a parable and not an exact story.  it showed absolute forgiveness and willingness to give so much wealth to one who betrays you (including killing the fattened calf to eat).  Being lost & found again in true repentance.  

Then there are other scriptures which command people not to adorn themselves in riches - specifically gold.

Despite the beauty of the prayer, it speaks of so many pagan given rings and a coaxing ring, and a parable ring that didn't really happen as the other stories did.

Why would the Orthodox church accept something so ingrained in paganism and even include the acts of pagans giving rings in their own service to symbolize what they are doing?

It goes from a "pledge" to "a ring"?    Also the consideration that many rings are gold & costly, which again is against what is commanded in the scriptures.  If somebody could please explain why this occurs I'd appreciate it.  

I guess, then, that we better throw out such pesky concepts as homoousios and Logos, ousios and hypostasis, since we borrowed those terms from pagan philosophy.
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« Reply #86 on: September 03, 2012, 09:34:14 PM »

Still a right-hander in accordance with our tradition but have been wearing it on our cross necklace for a year now.

I have been losing weight so fast it keeps falling off my finger and, since I don't want to lose it, I am waiting to plateau before resizing the ring for my maintennance weight....

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« Reply #87 on: September 03, 2012, 11:10:29 PM »

@yeshuaisiam, my favourite Anabaptist: Please, do not cross the line here.

Trying not to brother.   angel

Not trying to speak accusingly, but questioningly as I seriously don't know.

I'm wearing a wedding ring right now so absolutely if that came off accusingly I apologize.   Just pondering the topic.   

We do have the prodigal son as an example of the ring (albeit a story), and also (I forget which saint wrote about it hopefully somebody can fill me in) was the tradition of a servant's ear being pierced on the door post by tradition a hooped ring was inserted through the ear.   The example used by this saint spoke of the husband's body is now the wife's and the wife's the husband using the rings on the hand as servants to one another.   

Sorry my memory is but a dim light bulb after a day of work Smiley

Would love for people with more knowledge than myself to delve into the topic on rings.  I have one, and sometimes it kind of bothers me.  Undecided

God bless
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« Reply #88 on: September 03, 2012, 11:18:40 PM »

Why do the Orthodox wear wedding rings at all given the pagan origins and scriptural reference to not wear gold or costly apparel?

There is nothing pagan about wearing a wedding band. From the Orthodox betrothal service, which precedes the crowning service:

Quote
O Lord our God, You journeyed with the servant of the Patriarch Abraham in Mesopotamia when he was sent to obtain a wife for his lord Isaac, and by means of drawing water You revealed that he should betroth Rebecca. Bless the betrothal of Your servants N. and M. and make firm the word that they have spoken. Confirm them with the holy unity that comes from You. For it was You who in the beginning created male and female, and it is by You that woman is linked to man as a helper and for the continuation of the human race. Therefore, O Lord our God, who sent truth out to Your inheritance and Your promise to your servants, our fathers, Your elect in every generation, look on Your servant N. and your servant M., and make firm their betrothal in faith and concord and truth and love.

For it is You, Lord, who declared that times a pledge is to be given and made firm in everything. By a ring authority was given to Joseph in Egypt. By a ring Daniel was glorified in the country of Babylon. By a ring the truth of Thamar was revealed. By a ring our heavenly Father showed compassion to the prodigal son. For He said, ‘Put a ring on his hand and bring out and slay the fatted calf, and let us eat and be joyful’.

It was Your right hand, Lord, that armed Moses at the Red Sea, for through Your true word the heavens were made firm and the earth set on its foundations. And the right hand of Your servants will be blessed by Your mighty word and by Your upraised arm. Therefore, Master, with Your heavenly blessing now bless also this putting-on of rings. And may an Angel of the Lord go before them all the days of their lives.

For You are the One who blesses and sanctifies all things, and to You we give glory, to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and for ever, and to the ages of ages.

This beautiful prayer also proclaims that the rings be placed on the right hand, and explains why.






Yes, by the prayer itself, it shows the paganism of the ring within the scriptures.

Joseph was given a ring by a pagan Pharoah to represent his authority.
Daniel was given a ring by a pagan Babylonian king to glorify him.
Moses was given a ring by Pharaoh, another Pagan.
Thamar was given a ring to coax the truth out of her after her brother raped her.

So that leaves the prodigal son, a parable and not an exact story.  it showed absolute forgiveness and willingness to give so much wealth to one who betrays you (including killing the fattened calf to eat).  Being lost & found again in true repentance.  

Then there are other scriptures which command people not to adorn themselves in riches - specifically gold.

Despite the beauty of the prayer, it speaks of so many pagan given rings and a coaxing ring, and a parable ring that didn't really happen as the other stories did.

Why would the Orthodox church accept something so ingrained in paganism and even include the acts of pagans giving rings in their own service to symbolize what they are doing?

It goes from a "pledge" to "a ring"?    Also the consideration that many rings are gold & costly, which again is against what is commanded in the scriptures.  If somebody could please explain why this occurs I'd appreciate it.  

I guess, then, that we better throw out such pesky concepts as homoousios and Logos, ousios and hypostasis, since we borrowed those terms from pagan philosophy.

Well no, not everything that came from Paganism I would affiliate with "bad".  I mean I'm sure we eat foods that originally pagans ate. etc.

It was the acts depicted in the scriptures (save the Prodigal son) that emphasized the actual giving of a ring as a promise, office, or coax.

Now don't get me wrong, I have one on my finger right now. Smiley   I'm just curious of why the Orthodox Church (which I do consider myself a part of) allows the direct pagan gifts to be presented in the context of the matrimony ring.  I would understand the Prodigal son parable, but to include the pagan elements of the ring seems odd.   

This in no way invalidates a ring, or I'm not saying the church is wrong or anything of that sort.  Perhaps it only has a meaning that "things of significance happened with a ring in the scriptures" along with the prodigal son getting one.

I dunno  Huh
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