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Author Topic: Polygamist Cites Ruling on Sodomy  (Read 3176 times) Average Rating: 0
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Vicki
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« on: December 03, 2003, 06:09:01 PM »

The ability to distinguish right from wrong has vanished completely.  :'(

Polygamist cites ruling on sodomy


By Joyce Howard Price
THE WASHINGTON TIMES



    A Utah man with five wives is in court fighting to get his bigamy conviction overturned on the basis of the U.S. Supreme Court's June ruling that decriminalized homosexual relations.
    The legal action by polygamist Tom Green in the Utah Supreme Court seems to confirm predictions of a Republican lawmaker and other social conservatives who warned that the high court's decision would open the door to attempts to legalize other sexual activities that historically have been outlawed by states, such as bigamy, polygamy, prostitution, adult incest and even bestiality.
    "You would have the right to bigamy; you have the right to polygamy; you have the right to incest; you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything," Sen. Rick Santorum, Pennsylvania Republican, predicted in April.
    "Whether it's polygamy, whether it's adultery, whether it's sodomy, all of those things are antithetical to a healthy, stable traditional family," said Mr. Santorum, who was criticized at the time by Owen Allred, leader of Utah's largest polygamist sect, for characterizing plural marriage as an antifamily practice.
    Two months later, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a Texas sodomy law and declared in a 6-3 decision that the private actions of homosexuals are no business of government. On Monday, an attorney for Green — who has spent the past two years in prison — argued to Utah's Supreme Court that the Texas ruling should invalidate laws against polygamy.
    "It doesn't bother anyone [and with] no compelling state interest in what you can do in your own home with consenting adults, you should be allowed to do it," attorney John Bucher told the Utah court, according to the Associated Press.
    In August, Green, the father of 30 children, filed an appeal of his 2001 conviction on four counts of bigamy.
    He is serving a five-year sentence for that conviction and another for criminal nonsupport of his offspring. In addition, Green faces up to life in prison after being convicted of child rape for having sex with one of his five wives when she was 13.
    The U.S. Supreme Court's decision in the Texas case also has been cited by attorneys for Rodney Holm, a former police officer in Hildale, Utah, who was convicted in August of bigamy and unlawful sexual activity with a minor.
    "Holm raised the issue [of the Supreme Court's ruling in the Texas case] before his trial, but the trial court denied it," Laura B. Dupaix, Utah's attorney general, said in a telephone interview yesterday.
    On Oct. 10, Holm was sentenced to a year in jail and three years of probation. He is appealing his conviction, which he claims is improper under the U.S. Supreme Court ruling on sodomy, Ms. Dupaix said.
    "I argued that [the high court-¦s opinion] was not properly before the court in the Green case, because it's never been raised before" by his lawyers, she added.
    Holm is a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a fringe sect whose members practice polygamy.
    Green says he is not affiliated with any religion.
    The official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly known as the Mormons, renounced polygamy in 1890 as part of a deal to grant Utah statehood. Mormons excommunicate anyone who practices plural marriage.
    There are an estimated 30,000 people who practice polygamy in the Western states.
   


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Elisha
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2003, 06:57:25 PM »

I saw a Dateline (or whatever) special on this guy a couple months ago.  Pretty disturbed individual.   Sad
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Ebor
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2003, 07:17:01 PM »

Yep.  Iirc, with that many children, he wasn't supporting them all on his own.  A grown older man, going after a thirteen y.o. girl.  Someone who could be buffaloed or bullied.  Angry  

Ebor
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The Caffeinator
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2003, 07:47:03 PM »

Quote
But the Angel Moroni said on this magic tablet....

dum dum dum dee dum DUMB!

(Feeling guilty for revealing viewership of South Park.  Embarrassed )
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2003, 07:51:59 PM »

Quote
But the Angel Moroni said on this magic tablet....

dum dum dum dee dum DUMB!

(Feeling guilty for revealing viewership of South Park.  Embarrassed )


That was one of the funniest episodes.
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Mor Ephrem
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2003, 07:53:01 PM »

Don't feel guilty, I watch it too.  Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2003, 10:51:37 PM »

At last!

Wilbur is free to drop the facade with Carol and marry Mr. Ed!

Snow White can go back to the Seven Dwarves!

Oh, rapture!
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2003, 11:06:26 PM »

You guys are familiar with what Luther did for Philip of Hesse, are you not?

Philip, who was one of Luther's staunch protectors and supporters, was sincerely in love with his mistress, but he did not have just cause to divorce his wife, who was good and faithful.

Luther came to the rescue with Sola Scriptura. He pointed out that in the Old Testament some men had more than one wife, a practice which is not expressly prohibited in the Bible. Luther therefore concluded that Philip could simply marry his mistress, if his first wife agreed. She did, as long as Philip promised to keep her in style.

Luther married Philip to Philip's mistress himself.

Little known, but true.
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2003, 10:02:13 AM »

Quote
But the Angel Moroni said on this magic tablet....

dum dum dum dee dum DUMB!

(Feeling guilty for revealing viewership of South Park.  Embarrassed )


lol you saved the rest of us from having to admit it!
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2003, 10:03:36 AM »

Linus: He does have a point . . . . why anyone would want to be saddled with more than one wife is beyond all human reasoning though!! Grin
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The Caffeinator
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2003, 10:32:40 PM »

Linus,

I haven't heard that before. We're did you hear about that? You would think the Counter-Reformers would have fanned the fires into legend.
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2003, 10:43:23 PM »

Caffeinator: like the illegal marriage the pope allowed between Henry VIII and his dead brothers wife?
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2003, 10:53:16 PM »

I think we've discussed the value of history as it relates to apologetics.

MY interest was purely historical.

You are anti-Catholic, Max.
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2003, 11:10:27 AM »

caffeinator: um, no.  Smiley I work with and for RC.  I'm not against Catholics or even the catholic faith.  I dislike when people misrepresent History and Historic events.  There were many "not quite kosher" marriages given during the Middle ages and the Renaissance. We cannot pull one event out of history and say look - look at this terrible deed done without looking into the circumstances and events that lead up to said event.  

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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2003, 11:19:23 AM »

And that is why, in a round about way, I asked for a source. I never said, "oh yay! look at those polygamist Lutherans."
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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2003, 02:37:37 PM »

caffeinator: did I imply that you did?
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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2003, 02:41:38 PM »

I think we've discussed the value of history as it relates to apologetics.

MY interest was purely historical.

You are anti-Catholic, Max.

I am beginning to think that brother Max just likes to argue  Grin
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2003, 02:43:37 PM »

Tom: I do have a big spoon with which I like to stir the pot Grin but there is more to me than that!! SHEESH.
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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2003, 06:13:44 PM »

Guess I had another mometary lapse of charity...when will I learn!   Shocked
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« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2003, 06:16:47 PM »

Caff: no worries.  We don't need to agree all the time to be civil and friendly towards eachother.  Look at Vicki - she's as viscious a person as any one woman can be Wink and I still like her!
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"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
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« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2003, 12:18:08 AM »

Linus,

I haven't heard that before. We're did you hear about that? You would think the Counter-Reformers would have fanned the fires into legend.

I hate to admit it, Caffeinator, but I don't remember the source. I believe I came across it years ago when I was doing research for my Senior Seminar paper at the university. I did my paper on the Sacramentarian Controversy: the dispute between Luther and his allies and Zwingli and his allies over the Eucharist, and Philip of Hesse's attempt to bring the two sides together. Philip was hoping to forge an alliance between the Protestants of Germany and Switzerland because he knew Charles V would turn his attention toward them when he was done fighting the Turks.
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« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2003, 12:29:43 AM »

Linus,

I haven't heard that before. We're did you hear about that? You would think the Counter-Reformers would have fanned the fires into legend.

I hate to admit it, Caffeinator, but I don't remember the source. I believe I came across it years ago when I was doing research for my Senior Seminar paper at the university. I did my paper on the Sacramentarian Controversy: the dispute between Luther and his allies and Zwingli and his allies over the Eucharist, and Philip of Hesse's attempt to bring the two sides together. Philip was hoping to forge an alliance between the Protestants of Germany and Switzerland because he knew Charles V would turn his attention toward them when he was done fighting the Turks.

Eureka!

I just found the source, Caffeinator!

The story is recounted on pages 449-450 of Will Durant's, The Reformation: A History of European Civilization from Wyclif to Calvin: 1300-1564, which is Part VI of his series The Story of Civilization.

According to Durant, who cites his primary sources in footnotes, Luther also recommended bigamy to Henry VIII as a solution to his dilemma!

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« Last Edit: December 06, 2003, 12:32:15 AM by Linus7 » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2003, 12:37:59 AM »

At last!

Wilbur is free to drop the facade with Carol and marry Mr. Ed!

Snow White can go back to the Seven Dwarves!

Oh, rapture!

lol...I love Mr. Ed....an awesome show! Cheesy
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