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« Reply #135 on: October 16, 2009, 12:58:18 PM »

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Double standard?  I'm not saying I'm going to totally accept an ethnic identity affixed to a peoples by the children and grandchildren of Austrian-Hungarian immigrants that was created in the hills of Pennsylvania as a way to name their parish hall and social clubs and rally around a flag.  How many immigrants in the late 1800's and early 1900's called themselves "Carpatho-Rusyn"?  And really the concept of Ukraine came about after that wave of immigration from the former Austrian Hungarian empire.  Most of the early immigrants were happy to be in the USA away from oppression and mostly I hear people say "nash" (po nashemu=our people) more than "Carpatho-Rusyn" or Ukrainian. 

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As I said, double standard.  Just change the ethnic names around to 'Russian' and 'Ukrainian' and you will see what I mean.

Orthodoc. 

But Russians and Ukrainians actually exist (I'm positive, I talk to Russians and Ukrainians that moved to the USA from Russia and Ukraine several times a week).  Carpatho Rusyns are Ukrainians with an identity crisis.


There is no country called "Basqueland" and yet the Basque peoples of northern Spain and southwestern France most certainly exist.  They may civilly be Spaniards or French in terms of their passports, but they most certainly think of themselves as Basque.  The same goes for the Lapps in Finland.

There is a vast difference between citizenship in a nation and cultural identity.  I think you're confusing the two thanks to your own family's choice to identify themselves as Ukrainian rather than Carpatho-Rusyn.
True true. My Grandfather was of "Basque" ancestory and he most certainly exists.

Basque language is vastly different from Spanish and their customs are different than the Spanish.
"Rusyn" is just a dialect of Ukrainian and the customs they claim as their own are Ukrainian.  Why?  Because what they claim as their own are the ethnic groups that make up the populace of Western Ukraine. 

True, but would you rob the Lakota, the Dakota, and the Nakota of their ethnic sub-identity in the Great Sioux Nation?  Each speaks a slightly different dialect of the same language and have similar but "varying in the details" customs.  Ask one of those people who they are and they will refer to themselves not as "Sioux" or "Indian," but as Lakota, Dakota or Nakota. 
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« Reply #136 on: October 16, 2009, 01:01:25 PM »

Also, to bring it more home, would you tell someone from high Appalachia who wanted to refer to himself as an Appalachian rather than as a West Virginian (or American or Tennessean or what have you ) that he wasn't allowed to do so?  After all, they just speak a dialect of English and share most of their cultural customs with those in the valleys.
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« Reply #137 on: October 16, 2009, 01:15:42 PM »

I'm not seeing this whole Carpatho-Rus thing on any Ukrainian map.
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« Reply #138 on: October 16, 2009, 05:03:54 PM »

I'm not seeing this whole Carpatho-Rus thing on any Ukrainian map.


And that proves what?  Carpatho Rusyns were baptised by Sts Cyril & Methodious rather than St Vladimir.  Which makes them christian with their own culture a century before the Ukrainians.

Orhodoc
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« Reply #139 on: October 16, 2009, 05:35:50 PM »

That would be Zakarpatska.

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« Reply #140 on: October 16, 2009, 05:38:17 PM »

Orthodoc,

Can you believe it?  Were on the same side of an issue!  Some small corner of hell must be freezing over or something! Grin

Fr. Deacon Lance
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« Reply #141 on: October 16, 2009, 05:46:46 PM »

Orthodoc,

Can you believe it?  Were on the same side of an issue!  Some small corner of hell must be freezing over or something! Grin

Fr. Deacon Lance

I was thinking the same thing!

Orthodoc
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« Reply #142 on: October 16, 2009, 06:30:29 PM »

That would be Zakarpatska.



Which is an Oblast in Ukraine, just like a state in the USA or a province in Canada. 
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« Reply #143 on: October 16, 2009, 06:32:17 PM »

I'm not seeing this whole Carpatho-Rus thing on any Ukrainian map.


Look at Zakaparska.

Don't see Ukraine here at all:

http://www.ihst.ru/personal/imerz/bound/plate6.jpg

Not even a oblast, state or province.
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« Reply #144 on: October 16, 2009, 06:33:10 PM »

Orthodoc,

Can you believe it?  Were on the same side of an issue!  Some small corner of hell must be freezing over or something! Grin

Fr. Deacon Lance

I'm always happy bringing people together to the same table. 
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« Reply #145 on: October 16, 2009, 06:33:54 PM »

Orthodoc,

Can you believe it?  Were on the same side of an issue!  Some small corner of hell must be freezing over or something! Grin

Fr. Deacon Lance

I was thinking the same thing!

Orthodoc

I was feeling that same cool breeze.

But then I'm in Chicago. Tongue
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« Reply #146 on: October 16, 2009, 06:34:55 PM »

I'm not seeing this whole Carpatho-Rus thing on any Ukrainian map.


Look at Zakaparska.

Don't see Ukraine here at all:

http://www.ihst.ru/personal/imerz/bound/plate6.jpg

Not even a oblast, state or province.

Ah but countries change and the names of people change... things never stay the same.  Iran was once Persia but people I've known from Iran never called themselves Persians.  
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« Reply #147 on: October 16, 2009, 10:38:43 PM »

I'm not seeing this whole Carpatho-Rus thing on any Ukrainian map.


Look at Zakaparska.

Don't see Ukraine here at all:

http://www.ihst.ru/personal/imerz/bound/plate6.jpg

Not even a oblast, state or province.

Ah but countries change and the names of people change... things never stay the same.  Iran was once Persia but people I've known from Iran never called themselves Persians.  
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« Reply #148 on: October 17, 2009, 09:31:01 AM »

I'm not seeing this whole Carpatho-Rus thing on any Ukrainian map.


Look at Zakaparska.

Don't see Ukraine here at all:

http://www.ihst.ru/personal/imerz/bound/plate6.jpg

Not even a oblast, state or province.

Ah but countries change and the names of people change... things never stay the same.  Iran was once Persia but people I've known from Iran never called themselves Persians.  

Exactly, the most important thing to remember is we are all human beings created by God and our call as Christians is to be more like Christ.. Theosis.  Whatever language or type of rushnyky you wear pales in comparison to the love of God and our duty to serve Him.
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« Reply #149 on: October 17, 2009, 10:09:57 AM »

I'm not seeing this whole Carpatho-Rus thing on any Ukrainian map.


Look at Zakaparska.

Don't see Ukraine here at all:

http://www.ihst.ru/personal/imerz/bound/plate6.jpg

Not even a oblast, state or province.

Ah but countries change and the names of people change... things never stay the same.  Iran was once Persia but people I've known from Iran never called themselves Persians.  

Exactly, the most important thing to remember is we are all human beings created by God and our call as Christians is to be more like Christ.. Theosis.  Whatever language or type of rushnyky you wear pales in comparison to the love of God and our duty to serve Him.

We'll agree on that.
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« Reply #150 on: October 17, 2009, 10:15:08 AM »

I'm not seeing this whole Carpatho-Rus thing on any Ukrainian map.


Look at Zakaparska.

Don't see Ukraine here at all:

http://www.ihst.ru/personal/imerz/bound/plate6.jpg

Not even a oblast, state or province.

Ah but countries change and the names of people change... things never stay the same.  Iran was once Persia but people I've known from Iran never called themselves Persians.  

I have actually known several people who identified themselves as "ethnically Persian" whose families were from what is now called Iran.
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« Reply #151 on: October 17, 2009, 11:34:37 AM »

Well, still, the point being is how can Hutsuls, Bojkos, etc.. claim to be Ukrainian at the same time "Carpatho-Rusyns" claim those ethnic groups as their own?  Kind of conflicting eh?
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« Reply #152 on: October 17, 2009, 02:43:02 PM »

But some do claim to be Carptho-Rusyn.  At what point did the Eastern Slav tribe seperate into distinctly Russian, Belarusian, and Ukrainian groupings?
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« Reply #153 on: October 17, 2009, 08:49:29 PM »

But some do claim to be Carptho-Rusyn.  At what point did the Eastern Slav tribe seperate into distinctly Russian, Belarusian, and Ukrainian groupings?

Find me ONE person living in Ukraine that would call themselves Carpatho-Rusyn.  Not someone in Pittsburgh, but a real live Ukrainian... I've never met one, they usually say "we're Ukrainian" or "I'm a Hutsul."  My one friend who goes to Western Ukraine asks every time he goes there and the Ukrainians have no clue what a Carpatho-Rusyn is and he says he gets looks like he is nuts for asking. 
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« Reply #154 on: October 17, 2009, 10:25:35 PM »

Fr. Dmitri Sidor would.  So would the Greek Catholics of the Mukachevo/Uzhorod region.  Aleksander Duchnovic certainly called himself one.  Your are familiar with the Rusyn anthem Ja Rusyn Byl he penned:

I was, am and will remain Rusyn,
  I was born a Rusyn,
My honorable lineage I will not forget,
  And I shall remain its son;
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« Reply #155 on: October 17, 2009, 11:13:35 PM »

But some do claim to be Carptho-Rusyn.  At what point did the Eastern Slav tribe seperate into distinctly Russian, Belarusian, and Ukrainian groupings?

Find me ONE person living in Ukraine that would call themselves Carpatho-Rusyn.  Not someone in Pittsburgh, but a real live Ukrainian... I've never met one, they usually say "we're Ukrainian" or "I'm a Hutsul."  My one friend who goes to Western Ukraine asks every time he goes there and the Ukrainians have no clue what a Carpatho-Rusyn is and he says he gets looks like he is nuts for asking. 


I take it you did not even bother to download the TV segment on YouTube that was recommended.  How sad!

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« Reply #156 on: October 17, 2009, 11:43:23 PM »

But some do claim to be Carptho-Rusyn.  At what point did the Eastern Slav tribe seperate into distinctly Russian, Belarusian, and Ukrainian groupings?

Find me ONE person living in Ukraine that would call themselves Carpatho-Rusyn.  Not someone in Pittsburgh, but a real live Ukrainian... I've never met one, they usually say "we're Ukrainian" or "I'm a Hutsul."  My one friend who goes to Western Ukraine asks every time he goes there and the Ukrainians have no clue what a Carpatho-Rusyn is and he says he gets looks like he is nuts for asking. 


I take it you did not even bother to download the TV segment on YouTube that was recommended.  How sad!

Orthodoc

I don't buy into the internet propaganda, how sad to believe everything that comes out of certain "societies" based in Pittsburgh.
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« Reply #157 on: October 17, 2009, 11:59:35 PM »

But some do claim to be Carptho-Rusyn.  At what point did the Eastern Slav tribe seperate into distinctly Russian, Belarusian, and Ukrainian groupings?

Find me ONE person living in Ukraine that would call themselves Carpatho-Rusyn.  Not someone in Pittsburgh, but a real live Ukrainian... I've never met one, they usually say "we're Ukrainian" or "I'm a Hutsul."  My one friend who goes to Western Ukraine asks every time he goes there and the Ukrainians have no clue what a Carpatho-Rusyn is and he says he gets looks like he is nuts for asking. 


I take it you did not even bother to download the TV segment on YouTube that was recommended.  How sad!

Orthodoc

I don't buy into the internet propaganda, how sad to believe everything that comes out of certain "societies" based in Pittsburgh.

LOL.  That's a shame, it's quite good.  The Ukrainian would make a fine Soviet Comissar.  What's "anti-Ukrainian activity?" I love the story of the Ukrainian KGB, I mean security forces, being stopped by a babushka in the Church.

I've been to Pittusburgh.  I don't recall Uzhhorod being anywhere near it.
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« Reply #158 on: October 18, 2009, 12:48:26 PM »

Fr. Dmitri Sidor would.  So would the Greek Catholics of the Mukachevo/Uzhorod region.  Aleksander Duchnovic certainly called himself one.  Your are familiar with the Rusyn anthem Ja Rusyn Byl he penned:

I was, am and will remain Rusyn,
  I was born a Rusyn,
My honorable lineage I will not forget,
  And I shall remain its son;

Like I said, that bunch consists of Ukrainians with an identity crisis. 
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« Reply #159 on: October 18, 2009, 01:02:21 PM »

Fr. Dmitri Sidor would.  So would the Greek Catholics of the Mukachevo/Uzhorod region.  Aleksander Duchnovic certainly called himself one.  Your are familiar with the Rusyn anthem Ja Rusyn Byl he penned:

I was, am and will remain Rusyn,
  I was born a Rusyn,
My honorable lineage I will not forget,
  And I shall remain its son;

Like I said, that bunch consists of Ukrainians with an identity crisis. 

Now you're arguing in a circular manner.  You asked for ONE citizen of Ukraine who self-identified himself as a Rusyn.  Deacon Lance provided an answer along with documentation.  Your prior argument hinged on the fact that only people from Pittsburgh identify themselves as Carpatho-Rusyns and that no one in the civil state of Ukraine does so. 

Apparently there are a few people who do and who are you, as an American citizen, to tell anyone 1/3 of the way around the globe who they are?  The claim of self-identity is one of the most basic of human rights. 
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« Reply #160 on: October 18, 2009, 07:31:25 PM »

Fr. Dmitri Sidor would.  So would the Greek Catholics of the Mukachevo/Uzhorod region.  Aleksander Duchnovic certainly called himself one.  Your are familiar with the Rusyn anthem Ja Rusyn Byl he penned:

I was, am and will remain Rusyn,
  I was born a Rusyn,
My honorable lineage I will not forget,
  And I shall remain its son;

Like I said, that bunch consists of Ukrainians with an identity crisis. 

Now you're arguing in a circular manner.  You asked for ONE citizen of Ukraine who self-identified himself as a Rusyn.  Deacon Lance provided an answer along with documentation.  Your prior argument hinged on the fact that only people from Pittsburgh identify themselves as Carpatho-Rusyns and that no one in the civil state of Ukraine does so. 

Apparently there are a few people who do and who are you, as an American citizen, to tell anyone 1/3 of the way around the globe who they are?  The claim of self-identity is one of the most basic of human rights. 

Basic human rights are food, water, shelter and possibly oil.  Everything else is a luxury.
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« Reply #161 on: October 18, 2009, 07:38:19 PM »

Fr. Dmitri Sidor would.  So would the Greek Catholics of the Mukachevo/Uzhorod region.  Aleksander Duchnovic certainly called himself one.  Your are familiar with the Rusyn anthem Ja Rusyn Byl he penned:

I was, am and will remain Rusyn,
  I was born a Rusyn,
My honorable lineage I will not forget,
  And I shall remain its son;

Like I said, that bunch consists of Ukrainians with an identity crisis. 

Now you're arguing in a circular manner.  You asked for ONE citizen of Ukraine who self-identified himself as a Rusyn.  Deacon Lance provided an answer along with documentation.  Your prior argument hinged on the fact that only people from Pittsburgh identify themselves as Carpatho-Rusyns and that no one in the civil state of Ukraine does so. 

Apparently there are a few people who do and who are you, as an American citizen, to tell anyone 1/3 of the way around the globe who they are?  The claim of self-identity is one of the most basic of human rights. 

No one is getting the thinly veiled Pittsburgh reference (no not directed at the Ruthenian Greek/Byzantine Catholic Metropolia).  Also I am sure there are webpages on the internet where different individuals believe they are werewolves.  However just because they believe they are werewolves doesn't make werewolves exist. 
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« Reply #162 on: October 18, 2009, 08:19:39 PM »

Fr. Dmitri Sidor would.  So would the Greek Catholics of the Mukachevo/Uzhorod region.  Aleksander Duchnovic certainly called himself one.  Your are familiar with the Rusyn anthem Ja Rusyn Byl he penned:

I was, am and will remain Rusyn,
  I was born a Rusyn,
My honorable lineage I will not forget,
  And I shall remain its son;

Like I said, that bunch consists of Ukrainians with an identity crisis. 

Now you're arguing in a circular manner.  You asked for ONE citizen of Ukraine who self-identified himself as a Rusyn.  Deacon Lance provided an answer along with documentation.  Your prior argument hinged on the fact that only people from Pittsburgh identify themselves as Carpatho-Rusyns and that no one in the civil state of Ukraine does so. 

Apparently there are a few people who do and who are you, as an American citizen, to tell anyone 1/3 of the way around the globe who they are?  The claim of self-identity is one of the most basic of human rights. 

Basic human rights are food, water, shelter and possibly oil.

Man does not live by bread alone.
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« Reply #163 on: October 18, 2009, 08:32:24 PM »

This thread is a prime example of why arguing on the internet is just a bad idea.  Since I have no dog in this fight aside from academic interest, I am bowing out.  Enjoy arguing past each other, folks!
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« Reply #164 on: October 18, 2009, 11:36:52 PM »

This thread is a prime example of why arguing on the internet is just a bad idea.  Since I have no dog in this fight aside from academic interest, I am bowing out.  Enjoy arguing past each other, folks!

That's the fun of it, it's just for fun. It's not like we are discussing as heart transplant surgeons a new way to more effectively implant a heart.  We're just folks arguing over what to call people living in mountains in Eastern Europe. 
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« Reply #165 on: October 19, 2009, 09:33:38 AM »

To change gears a bit:  I have been told by Ukrainians that there is no such word as "Ruthenians"--yet there is a Ruthenian Catholic Church?  What's up with that?

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« Reply #166 on: October 19, 2009, 10:29:40 AM »

To change gears a bit:  I have been told by Ukrainians that there is no such word as "Ruthenians"--yet there is a Ruthenian Catholic Church?  What's up with that?



It's the Latinized word they say.
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« Reply #167 on: October 19, 2009, 01:42:47 PM »

Just as an aside, Fr. Dmitri Sidor would call himself a Russian.
He is part of a very small minority in Zakarpatia who still adhere to the Russphile party/movement & orthodox movement of the late 19th century.  He wants nothing to do with Magosci or people in the USA who identify themsleves as Rusyns and not Russians.

On the other hand there are the Rusyns, under the leadership of Prof. Paul Robert Magocsi, who is president of the World Free Congress of Rusyns, who see the Slavic people of this area as a distinct ethnic group with their own language, history and traditions.

Read any of Magocsi's books or brrochures.  If you do, it is interesting to discover how ethnically diverse this area was throughout history.  Lots of Hungarians, Slovaks, Poles, even Germans.  Also magosci mentions that the Ruthenians were the poorest of the poor.  I am only adding this in case people think that the so-called Rusyns were ever had a donimant role in the area until after WW2.  There was a lot of re-settling and voluntary and involuntary movement of ethnic groups then.
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« Reply #168 on: October 19, 2009, 06:43:19 PM »

In this interview Fr. Dmitri describes himself as Rusyn.  I do understand that as a priest of UOC-MP he is pro-Russian, but everything I have read about him states he a Rusyn activist.

http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/intsidor.htm
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« Reply #169 on: November 10, 2009, 12:56:57 PM »

see below...sorry don't know if I can delete.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 01:11:50 PM by Vocatio » Logged

\"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God.\"  St. Ignatius of Antioch
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« Reply #170 on: November 10, 2009, 01:10:52 PM »

In this interview Fr. Dmitri describes himself as Rusyn.  I do understand that as a priest of UOC-MP he is pro-Russian, but everything I have read about him states he a Rusyn activist.

http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/intsidor.htm
There's a reason we call this territory a geographic shatterbelt.

My family of origin is from this part of the world and after reading about the history I understand why they abandoned that territory, constant wars and owning property became seemingly fragile.  The settled in Schulenburg, Texas.  Any body remember the battery operated helicopters on a wire string connected to a flashlight looking operator?  That's my family... "The Stanzel Factory", now a museum.  I learned about this territory in the Province of Bohemia by picking up a book in the library about this region while trying to learn a bit more about my family.  German and Czech speakers through wars and conquers were forced to live in harmony...yea right.  I would love to do more research on this part of the world as a geographer. 

Anyway societies have been forced to blend in with existing indigenous populations at the expense of culture clashes. At one point it was illegal to speak either Czech or German, forget which.  We consider ourselves Austrian, but today's Austria is much further away.  My family came over with documents saying "Austrian Empire".  In other parts of the world many indigenous populations are trying to gain higher notoriety by lobbying for example minority status.  Louisiana, also part of my French and Spanish heritage, had a group of "Cajuns" lobbying for minority status.  Sorry if this seems off topic, but I meant it only as an example of what happens when cultures are forced to live together and neither one is absorbed into the other,which seems to be the norm today as even many are encouraged to return to their roots.
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\"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God.\"  St. Ignatius of Antioch
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« Reply #171 on: November 10, 2009, 03:13:05 PM »

In this interview Fr. Dmitri describes himself as Rusyn.  I do understand that as a priest of UOC-MP he is pro-Russian, but everything I have read about him states he a Rusyn activist.

http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/intsidor.htm
There's a reason we call this territory a geographic shatterbelt.

My family of origin is from this part of the world and after reading about the history I understand why they abandoned that territory, constant wars and owning property became seemingly fragile.  The settled in Schulenburg, Texas.  Any body remember the battery operated helicopters on a wire string connected to a flashlight looking operator?  That's my family... "The Stanzel Factory", now a museum.  I learned about this territory in the Province of Bohemia by picking up a book in the library about this region while trying to learn a bit more about my family.  German and Czech speakers through wars and conquers were forced to live in harmony...yea right.  I would love to do more research on this part of the world as a geographer. 

Anyway societies have been forced to blend in with existing indigenous populations at the expense of culture clashes. At one point it was illegal to speak either Czech or German, forget which.  We consider ourselves Austrian, but today's Austria is much further away.  My family came over with documents saying "Austrian Empire".  In other parts of the world many indigenous populations are trying to gain higher notoriety by lobbying for example minority status.  Louisiana, also part of my French and Spanish heritage, had a group of "Cajuns" lobbying for minority status.  Sorry if this seems off topic, but I meant it only as an example of what happens when cultures are forced to live together and neither one is absorbed into the other,which seems to be the norm today as even many are encouraged to return to their roots.

The discussion is about those Rusyns located within the current borders of Ukraine.  Those Rusyns who reside within the current Slovak or Polish borders have their Rusyn identity recognized as such.

Orthodoc
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Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
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« Reply #172 on: November 10, 2009, 04:11:02 PM »

In this interview Fr. Dmitri describes himself as Rusyn.  I do understand that as a priest of UOC-MP he is pro-Russian, but everything I have read about him states he a Rusyn activist.

http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/intsidor.htm
There's a reason we call this territory a geographic shatterbelt.

My family of origin is from this part of the world and after reading about the history I understand why they abandoned that territory, constant wars and owning property became seemingly fragile.  The settled in Schulenburg, Texas.  Any body remember the battery operated helicopters on a wire string connected to a flashlight looking operator?  That's my family... "The Stanzel Factory", now a museum.  I learned about this territory in the Province of Bohemia by picking up a book in the library about this region while trying to learn a bit more about my family.  German and Czech speakers through wars and conquers were forced to live in harmony...yea right.  I would love to do more research on this part of the world as a geographer. 

Anyway societies have been forced to blend in with existing indigenous populations at the expense of culture clashes. At one point it was illegal to speak either Czech or German, forget which.  We consider ourselves Austrian, but today's Austria is much further away.  My family came over with documents saying "Austrian Empire".  In other parts of the world many indigenous populations are trying to gain higher notoriety by lobbying for example minority status.  Louisiana, also part of my French and Spanish heritage, had a group of "Cajuns" lobbying for minority status.  Sorry if this seems off topic, but I meant it only as an example of what happens when cultures are forced to live together and neither one is absorbed into the other,which seems to be the norm today as even many are encouraged to return to their roots.

The discussion is about those Rusyns located within the current borders of Ukraine.  Those Rusyns who reside within the current Slovak or Polish borders have their Rusyn identity recognized as such.

Orthodoc
Sorry if you don't get what I meant.  My point is the this part of the world has always been a geographic shatterbelt.  That's why the Soviet Union constantly tried to control activity in the eastern European nations.  That was my point added with a little bit of example as a background.  Sorry, I'm a geographer.  That's what interests me most and what got me into learning about Orthodoxy.  My apologies if I was too off topic.
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\"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God.\"  St. Ignatius of Antioch
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« Reply #173 on: November 10, 2009, 04:48:42 PM »

This is one of the most important dicussions on the forum.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 04:48:58 PM by Papist » Logged

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« Reply #174 on: November 10, 2009, 07:20:30 PM »

In this interview Fr. Dmitri describes himself as Rusyn.  I do understand that as a priest of UOC-MP he is pro-Russian, but everything I have read about him states he a Rusyn activist.

http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/intsidor.htm
There's a reason we call this territory a geographic shatterbelt.

My family of origin is from this part of the world and after reading about the history I understand why they abandoned that territory, constant wars and owning property became seemingly fragile.  The settled in Schulenburg, Texas.  Any body remember the battery operated helicopters on a wire string connected to a flashlight looking operator?  That's my family... "The Stanzel Factory", now a museum.  I learned about this territory in the Province of Bohemia by picking up a book in the library about this region while trying to learn a bit more about my family.  German and Czech speakers through wars and conquers were forced to live in harmony...yea right.  I would love to do more research on this part of the world as a geographer. 

Anyway societies have been forced to blend in with existing indigenous populations at the expense of culture clashes. At one point it was illegal to speak either Czech or German, forget which.  We consider ourselves Austrian, but today's Austria is much further away.  My family came over with documents saying "Austrian Empire".  In other parts of the world many indigenous populations are trying to gain higher notoriety by lobbying for example minority status.  Louisiana, also part of my French and Spanish heritage, had a group of "Cajuns" lobbying for minority status.  Sorry if this seems off topic, but I meant it only as an example of what happens when cultures are forced to live together and neither one is absorbed into the other,which seems to be the norm today as even many are encouraged to return to their roots.

The discussion is about those Rusyns located within the current borders of Ukraine.  Those Rusyns who reside within the current Slovak or Polish borders have their Rusyn identity recognized as such.

Orthodoc
Sorry if you don't get what I meant.  My point is the this part of the world has always been a geographic shatterbelt.  That's why the Soviet Union constantly tried to control activity in the eastern European nations.  That was my point added with a little bit of example as a background.  Sorry, I'm a geographer.  That's what interests me most and what got me into learning about Orthodoxy.  My apologies if I was too off topic.

No need to apologize I was just adding info.  There is a book out called 'The People From Nowhere' because every time there is a war they end up being separated amongst many different countries.  Guess that is what you meant.  Andy Wharol was a Lemko (Rusyn) and when asked where his ancestors came from he would reply
They are from nowhere'.  This is what they meant.

Orthodoc

P.S.  At one time they were part of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire'.  That's what it says on my grandpaents papers too.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 07:23:35 PM by Orthodoc » Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
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« Reply #175 on: November 10, 2009, 08:51:42 PM »

In this interview Fr. Dmitri describes himself as Rusyn.  I do understand that as a priest of UOC-MP he is pro-Russian, but everything I have read about him states he a Rusyn activist.

http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/intsidor.htm
There's a reason we call this territory a geographic shatterbelt.

My family of origin is from this part of the world and after reading about the history I understand why they abandoned that territory, constant wars and owning property became seemingly fragile.  The settled in Schulenburg, Texas.  Any body remember the battery operated helicopters on a wire string connected to a flashlight looking operator?  That's my family... "The Stanzel Factory", now a museum.  I learned about this territory in the Province of Bohemia by picking up a book in the library about this region while trying to learn a bit more about my family.  German and Czech speakers through wars and conquers were forced to live in harmony...yea right.  I would love to do more research on this part of the world as a geographer. 

Anyway societies have been forced to blend in with existing indigenous populations at the expense of culture clashes. At one point it was illegal to speak either Czech or German, forget which.  We consider ourselves Austrian, but today's Austria is much further away.  My family came over with documents saying "Austrian Empire".  In other parts of the world many indigenous populations are trying to gain higher notoriety by lobbying for example minority status.  Louisiana, also part of my French and Spanish heritage, had a group of "Cajuns" lobbying for minority status.  Sorry if this seems off topic, but I meant it only as an example of what happens when cultures are forced to live together and neither one is absorbed into the other,which seems to be the norm today as even many are encouraged to return to their roots.

The discussion is about those Rusyns located within the current borders of Ukraine.  Those Rusyns who reside within the current Slovak or Polish borders have their Rusyn identity recognized as such.

Orthodoc
Sorry if you don't get what I meant.  My point is the this part of the world has always been a geographic shatterbelt.  That's why the Soviet Union constantly tried to control activity in the eastern European nations.  That was my point added with a little bit of example as a background.  Sorry, I'm a geographer.  That's what interests me most and what got me into learning about Orthodoxy.  My apologies if I was too off topic.

No need to apologize I was just adding info.  There is a book out called 'The People From Nowhere' because every time there is a war they end up being separated amongst many different countries.  Guess that is what you meant.  Andy Wharol was a Lemko (Rusyn) and when asked where his ancestors came from he would reply
They are from nowhere'.  This is what they meant.

Orthodoc

P.S.  At one time they were part of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire'.  That's what it says on my grandpaents papers too.
interesting  my daughter has me trapped ,,,she's sick and my hands are trapped.  I'm typing one handed while reaching. will expand later on a relative I met by mere accident buying rosaries thinking about becoming catholic from fundamentalist,,,small world
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 09:16:24 PM by Vocatio » Logged

\"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God.\"  St. Ignatius of Antioch
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« Reply #176 on: November 10, 2009, 08:59:58 PM »

In this interview Fr. Dmitri describes himself as Rusyn.  I do understand that as a priest of UOC-MP he is pro-Russian, but everything I have read about him states he a Rusyn activist.

http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/intsidor.htm
There's a reason we call this territory a geographic shatterbelt.

My family of origin is from this part of the world and after reading about the history I understand why they abandoned that territory, constant wars and owning property became seemingly fragile.  The settled in Schulenburg, Texas.  Any body remember the battery operated helicopters on a wire string connected to a flashlight looking operator?  That's my family... "The Stanzel Factory", now a museum.  I learned about this territory in the Province of Bohemia by picking up a book in the library about this region while trying to learn a bit more about my family.  German and Czech speakers through wars and conquers were forced to live in harmony...yea right.  I would love to do more research on this part of the world as a geographer. 

Anyway societies have been forced to blend in with existing indigenous populations at the expense of culture clashes. At one point it was illegal to speak either Czech or German, forget which.  We consider ourselves Austrian, but today's Austria is much further away.  My family came over with documents saying "Austrian Empire".  In other parts of the world many indigenous populations are trying to gain higher notoriety by lobbying for example minority status.  Louisiana, also part of my French and Spanish heritage, had a group of "Cajuns" lobbying for minority status.  Sorry if this seems off topic, but I meant it only as an example of what happens when cultures are forced to live together and neither one is absorbed into the other,which seems to be the norm today as even many are encouraged to return to their roots.

The discussion is about those Rusyns located within the current borders of Ukraine.  Those Rusyns who reside within the current Slovak or Polish borders have their Rusyn identity recognized as such.

Orthodoc

I see the discussion restarted while I'm like really really away from frequent computer availability.   
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« Reply #177 on: July 16, 2010, 12:13:05 PM »

On www.timkovic.com proves that o.Timkovic's are liars and turning lies to their personal agenda.
o.Timkovic's  are hurting church and Ruthenians.
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