OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 21, 2014, 03:32:32 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Miaphysite vs monphysite  (Read 3623 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I'm Greek and proud of it, damn it!
Posts: 6,129



« on: September 25, 2009, 04:28:20 PM »

Is there a difference between the terms monophysite and miaphysite?  Both "mia" and "mono" mean one or alone in Greek.  Sometimes I have seen the terms used interchangeably but some will say that there is a fine line of difference.  So, which is it?
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Pilgrim
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Inquirer
Jurisdiction: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 304



« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2009, 04:36:24 PM »

Monophysites were heretics who followed Eutychean christology. Miaphysites follow the christology of St. Severus, and are now the non-Chalcedonian Orthodox Churches.

I think the difference in the tern is simply to seperate these two.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 04:37:26 PM by Pilgrim » Logged

Heavenly King, Comforter, Spirit of Truth help us to walk the way of Life, which is Christ Jesus.

St. Cyril, St. Leo, and St. Severus pray that the Church may be united and one, Eastern and Oriental.St. Issac the Syrian, pray that Assyria would return to the Holy Church. St. Gregory, pray for Rom
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,647


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2009, 08:57:23 PM »

Monophysites were heretics who followed Eutychean christology. Miaphysites follow the christology of St. Severus, and are now the non-Chalcedonian Orthodox Churches.

I think the difference in the tern is simply to seperate these two.
Is it really that simplistic?  Let's wait and see what those of our OO brothers and sisters who are much better versed in their own history have to say before jumping to such simplistic conclusions as the above.
Logged
Salpy
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,723


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2009, 10:01:33 PM »

It's been discussed here before, but I think there is a difference in meaning between mia and mono.  I've been told that mono is one in the sense of a numerical one, whereas mia is one in the sense of a united, or composite, one.
Logged

Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,254


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2009, 03:18:19 PM »

It's been discussed here before, but I think there is a difference in meaning between mia and mono.  I've been told that mono is one in the sense of a numerical one, whereas mia is one in the sense of a united, or composite, one.
Sounds like either could possibly be problematic.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
_Seraphim_
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Serbian Diocese of Western America (under His Grace Bishop Maxim)
Posts: 657


May Orthodoxy become our orthopraxis


WWW
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2009, 03:37:58 PM »

Is there a difference between the terms monophysite and miaphysite?  Both "mia" and "mono" mean one or alone in Greek.  Sometimes I have seen the terms used interchangeably but some will say that there is a fine line of difference.  So, which is it?


I've never heard of "monphysite,"  Wink Grin,  but here's a very basic article about miaphysite/monophysite:


http://orthodoxwiki.org/Miaphysitism

Quote

...the Churches of the Oriental Orthodox Communion, while sometimes called monophysite, vehemently reject that label.

Over recent decades, leaders of the various branches of the Church have spoken about the differences between their respective christologies as not being as extreme as was traditionally held.

Much has been said about the difficulties in understanding the Greek technical terms used in these controversies.

The main words are ousia (οὐσία, 'essence'), physis (φύσις, 'nature'), hypostasis (ὑπόστασις, 'concrete reality/person') and prosopon (πρόσωπον, 'mask/person'). Even in Greek, their meanings can overlap somewhat. These difficulties became even more exaggerated when these technical terms were translated into other languages. In Syriac, physis was translated as kyānâ and hypostasis was qnômâ. The shades of meaning are even more blurred between these words, and they could not be used in such a philosophical way as their Greek counterparts. Hence, some have suggested that miaphysitism came about due to a grounding of language in the fact that someone's person and nature are a verisimilitude.

(Note: This article or section represents an Oriental Orthodox (Non-Chalcedonian) perspective, which may differ from an Eastern Orthodox (Chalcedonian) understanding.)



« Last Edit: September 26, 2009, 03:46:39 PM by _Seraphim_ » Logged

"Disputes merely about words must not be suffered to divide those who think alike."
-St. Athanasius (†444)

Pray for Orthodox Unity

"Behold the light of our Agreed Statement on Christology"
http://www.orthodoxunity.org/state04.html
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,647


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2009, 05:17:38 PM »

It's been discussed here before, but I think there is a difference in meaning between mia and mono.  I've been told that mono is one in the sense of a numerical one, whereas mia is one in the sense of a united, or composite, one.
Sounds like either could possibly be problematic.
From whose perspective?
Logged
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,071


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


WWW
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2009, 06:35:32 PM »

"Monophysite" is a word used by those of the Chalcedonian tradition who attacked anyone that rejected Chalcedon.  Implied by the word was either a confusion of natures or a docetic/semidocetic Christ or an Apollinarian form of Christ, all of which are condemned by the OO fathers and the Church.

The word "Miaphysite" was taken from St. Cyril's famous phrase "Mia Physis tou Theo Logos Sesarkomene," and thus this has been adopted by our OO fathers along with its theological implications (theosis for one is a strong implication).  This word "Miaphysite" was adopted in answer to the attacks made against the OO as "Monophysites" to highlight the truth behind OO beliefs as well as allude to the common father St. Cyril as the source of OO beliefs.
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,254


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2009, 01:41:33 PM »

It's been discussed here before, but I think there is a difference in meaning between mia and mono.  I've been told that mono is one in the sense of a numerical one, whereas mia is one in the sense of a united, or composite, one.
Sounds like either could possibly be problematic.
From whose perspective?
A Chalcedonian one.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,091


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2009, 03:48:11 PM »

"Monophysite" is a word used by those of the Chalcedonian tradition who attacked anyone that rejected Chalcedon.  Implied by the word was either a confusion of natures or a docetic/semidocetic Christ or an Apollinarian form of Christ, all of which are condemned by the OO fathers and the Church.

IIRC, "monophysite" was a term coined well before Chalcedon.

The word "Miaphysite" was taken from St. Cyril's famous phrase "Mia Physis tou Theo Logos Sesarkomene," and thus this has been adopted by our OO fathers along with its theological implications (theosis for one is a strong implication).  This word "Miaphysite" was adopted in answer to the attacks made against the OO as "Monophysites" to highlight the truth behind OO beliefs as well as allude to the common father St. Cyril as the source of OO beliefs.

In modern Greek "mono" has more of an exclusive sense (like "only one"), versus "mia" which is merely a feminine form of "one" (enas, mia, ena).
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
John Larocque
Catholic
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox
Posts: 530


« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2009, 04:32:03 PM »

I remember a couple of years ago an explanation of something along these lines. Those who had an issue with Jesus' divinity found themselves in the Arian camp. Those who had an issue with Jesus' humanity tended to go to one of two extremes. The Nestorians treated Jesus divinity as having little to do with his humanity and vice versa, so you'd have a strange expression like, "Jesus the man died on the cross, but not the Jesus the divine." The monophysites swallowed up his divinity so that it was fused into a singular (mostly) divine nature. Again, at the expense of the humanity of Jesus. Even now, occasionally on the bulletin boards, "Chalcedonian" Christians will see expressions like "the humanity of Jesus" or "Jesus the Man" and think that it was some sort of intrinsic denial of his divine nature or Arianism in disguise. Why was the humanity of Jesus - or rather - that Jesus could be simultaneously truly human and truly divine - so problematic?

Cyrillian Miaphysitism seems like a milder form of monophysitism, and I read that some have tried to make it compatible with Chalcedonian expressions. Forgive me for saying this, but it seems similar to the semantics involved in making Western and Eastern approachs to the Trinity to unambiguously mean the same things, without in any sense departing from the Western terminologies. So from Latin/Greek semantics it's Syrian/Greek semantics. I suppose if you can get both confessions to assert the same thing (though semantically worded differently) you'd have unity, right?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 04:36:00 PM by John Larocque » Logged
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,071


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


WWW
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2009, 05:55:35 PM »

"Monophysite" is a word used by those of the Chalcedonian tradition who attacked anyone that rejected Chalcedon.  Implied by the word was either a confusion of natures or a docetic/semidocetic Christ or an Apollinarian form of Christ, all of which are condemned by the OO fathers and the Church.

IIRC, "monophysite" was a term coined well before Chalcedon.

I was only defining it within the context of the Chalcedonian debate, but you're right.

Quote
The word "Miaphysite" was taken from St. Cyril's famous phrase "Mia Physis tou Theo Logos Sesarkomene," and thus this has been adopted by our OO fathers along with its theological implications (theosis for one is a strong implication).  This word "Miaphysite" was adopted in answer to the attacks made against the OO as "Monophysites" to highlight the truth behind OO beliefs as well as allude to the common father St. Cyril as the source of OO beliefs.

In modern Greek "mono" has more of an exclusive sense (like "only one"), versus "mia" which is merely a feminine form of "one" (enas, mia, ena).

Is physis thus a feminine word?  Or is ancient Greek usage different from modern Greek in the word "mia"?
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Shlomlokh
主哀れめよ!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Bulgarian
Posts: 1,263



« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2009, 08:53:50 PM »

"Monophysite" is a word used by those of the Chalcedonian tradition who attacked anyone that rejected Chalcedon.  Implied by the word was either a confusion of natures or a docetic/semidocetic Christ or an Apollinarian form of Christ, all of which are condemned by the OO fathers and the Church.

IIRC, "monophysite" was a term coined well before Chalcedon.

I was only defining it within the context of the Chalcedonian debate, but you're right.

Quote
The word "Miaphysite" was taken from St. Cyril's famous phrase "Mia Physis tou Theo Logos Sesarkomene," and thus this has been adopted by our OO fathers along with its theological implications (theosis for one is a strong implication).  This word "Miaphysite" was adopted in answer to the attacks made against the OO as "Monophysites" to highlight the truth behind OO beliefs as well as allude to the common father St. Cyril as the source of OO beliefs.

In modern Greek "mono" has more of an exclusive sense (like "only one"), versus "mia" which is merely a feminine form of "one" (enas, mia, ena).

Is physis thus a feminine word?  Or is ancient Greek usage different from modern Greek in the word "mia"?

I had a Maronite priest explain to me once about how the Maronites and other Syriac Christians were accused of being monothelites. He said they expressed their belief as being "one will doubly." Do OO express this same sort of idea as miaphysites?

In Christ,
Andrew
Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
Tags: Christology Oriental Orthodox Chalcedon 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.077 seconds with 40 queries.