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Author Topic: Will Greece ever get Constantinople back?  (Read 17583 times) Average Rating: 0
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Tzimis
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« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2009, 09:47:51 PM »

Will Greece ever recapture the New Rome from the Turks?
Greece never owned Constantinople, so it would not be a case of "recapturing" it but rather annexing it. What is now called Greece was part of the Roman Empire with Constantinople as its capital, so New Rome owned Greece, not the other way around.
A little known fact is that the Fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans coincided with a rise in Greek Nationalism led by the neoPlatonic philosopher Gemistus Pletho. The new revival in "Greek nationalism" is no different, and it would be completely revisionist for it to claim that "Greece" ever "owned" Constantinople.


Let us not put the cart before the horse George. Cheesy It was Constantine he great who transformed the ancient Greek colony of Byzantium into a new imperial residence, Constantinople. Wink
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« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2013, 05:12:30 AM »

Now Sol, are you being sarcastic?

I wasn't being sarcastic.

Are you being sarcastic about not being sarcastic?  Huh
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« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2013, 05:29:07 AM »

When Holy Russia decides to rise up and crush the followers of Satan in Turkey, then shall the throne of Constantine be raised up again.

We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do,
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too,
We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true,
The Russians shall not have Constantinople.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 05:29:30 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2013, 07:35:26 AM »


Instead, let us consider this... Is it better that it remain under the Turks for now? Or would it be best if a western nation were given control? Would non-Orthodox in those countries be persecuted just as bad or worse under an "Orthodox" country or would peace be better preserved with another country controlling it.


On my last visit to Mt Athos, I heard a story from a Greek Archimandrite and the point of it was that persecution of Christians is alive and well. The story went something like this.

While visiting the north part of the country, the tour group went to a tavern to eat. The proprietor upon realising who/what they were, invited the priest to his 'cellar' to look at this wines. Deep below in a hidden room was a small chapel. Crying the man begged them to hold a liturgy! When asked about it all, the man said that they built it like this so that when they light incense it will not give them away....

So.. YES we should take the whole of Turkey back if possible but the thought of a war... Sad
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« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2013, 07:42:33 AM »


Instead, let us consider this... Is it better that it remain under the Turks for now? Or would it be best if a western nation were given control? Would non-Orthodox in those countries be persecuted just as bad or worse under an "Orthodox" country or would peace be better preserved with another country controlling it.


On my last visit to Mt Athos, I heard a story from a Greek Archimandrite and the point of it was that persecution of Christians is alive and well. The story went something like this.

While visiting the north part of the country, the tour group went to a tavern to eat. The proprietor upon realising who/what they were, invited the priest to his 'cellar' to look at this wines. Deep below in a hidden room was a small chapel. Crying the man begged them to hold a liturgy! When asked about it all, the man said that they built it like this so that when they light incense it will not give them away....

So.. YES we should take the whole of Turkey back if possible but the thought of a war... Sad


The Great Idea is dead and buried. As it should be.
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« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2013, 08:11:10 AM »

The Great Idea is dead and buried. As it should be.

Was it so evil?
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« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2013, 08:26:11 AM »

The Great Idea is dead and buried. As it should be.

Was it so evil?

Read up on the history.  Smiley
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« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2013, 08:36:19 AM »

The Great Idea is dead and buried. As it should be.

Was it so evil?

Read up on the history.  Smiley

The problematic part is that it failed. But the megali idea can hardly be called evil.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 08:52:48 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2013, 11:09:26 PM »

The Great Idea is dead and buried. As it should be.

Was it so evil?

Read up on the history.  Smiley

The problematic part is that it failed. But the megali idea can hardly be called evil.

It failed because Russia was indisposed at the time.
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« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2013, 11:19:19 PM »

Now Sol, are you being sarcastic?

I wasn't being sarcastic.

Are you being sarcastic about not being sarcastic?  Huh

A lot has happened in Turkey since my last reply in this thread.  Turkey has some internal issues at the moment.  They haven't affected the Greeks, at least not according to the Huffington Post.

So, I'm not sarcastic about not being sarcastic which means I'm still not sarcastic.
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« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2013, 11:20:51 PM »

Only if Russia finally re-heats its bitter rivalry with Turkey and rebuilds its empire to destroy them.
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« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2013, 11:25:07 PM »

Only if Russia finally re-heats its bitter rivalry with Turkey and rebuilds its empire to destroy them.

Russia kind of has historical ADD.
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« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2013, 12:57:54 AM »

Yea, I couldn't see any Greeks taking a chance and migrating to Turkey for any reason regardless of whether or not the Turks have joined the EU.

Also, did King Otto of Greece stay a Catholic (I presume, since he was Bavarian) or did he convert to Orthodoxy



High Highness Otto remained Catholic and his wife remained Protestant, but the agreement was that their children were to be baptised in the Orthodox Church. His retention of his religion and encouragement of Western missionaries in the new Kingdom was a bone of contention for decades.
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« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2013, 01:00:36 AM »

So did theyoungfogey model his profile picture after Robb's? Wink
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« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2013, 03:38:06 AM »

Certainly will never happen by human hands that is for sure...



Still, fantasize about it... maybe one day...

then just remember the size of the greek military compared to turkey, warming relations between the two countries (and between turkey and russia). also as another pointed out, the birth rate. orthodox as a people are I would say in a decline because of low birth rates compared to muslims.



one final thing, i believe the period of annexation of land is over for the western world. I don't think world powers would allow it to happen, and even if it did it would be impossible to keep with such a huge amount of the population being turk muslims. in order to take foreign land you would have to be cruel to keep it.  (yes, istanbul is now foreign land for the greeks.) the cruelty required would be impossible to do in this day in age. this is my opinion.


those glory days are over and only harder times are ahead
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« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2013, 09:13:31 AM »

When Holy Russia decides to rise up and crush the followers of Satan in Turkey, then shall the throne of Constantine be raised up again.

We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do,
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too,
We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true,
The Russians shall not have Constantinople.

Watch the movie 'Zulu' sometime.
That is what they mean by true Britons.
There ain't a lot fo them left.
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« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2013, 10:21:15 AM »

I doubt if Greece would want to spend the money to try to keep such a place.  War is expensive.
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« Reply #62 on: July 04, 2013, 05:29:10 PM »

Will Greece ever recapture the New Rome from the Turks?
Greece never owned Constantinople, so it would not be a case of "recapturing" it but rather annexing it. What is now called Greece was part of the Roman Empire with Constantinople as its capital, so New Rome owned Greece, not the other way around.
A little known fact is that the Fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans coincided with a rise in Greek Nationalism led by the neoPlatonic philosopher Gemistus Pletho. The new revival in "Greek nationalism" is no different, and it would be completely revisionist for it to claim that "Greece" ever "owned" Constantinople.

Would the emperor then be put back on hsi throne and Byzantium restored as a sacred kingdom in this world?
There was never a "Byzantine Empire", it was the Eastern Roman Empire.

Well put.  I would even say that whereas the Ottomans preserved Roman heritage, hellenism from the seventeenth century onwards through 1821 and today has always been directed by a pagan clique that has undermined the identity and character of Eastern Roman citizens and transformed them into Greek apostates.  The same process has occurred in every country of the Roman Empire occupied by the Franks and its allies.  
See for example, 'From Peasants to Frenchmen: The Modernization of Rural France 1870-1914' by Eugen Weber.

The Ottoman Empire and its Sultans were the Roman Empire in Islamic form.  The last truly Christian Emperor of Rome was Manuel II who opposed union with the Franks.  However, the final two Paleologue Emperors departed from his religious policy and became Frankish puppets from the 1430's Florentine Council to 1453 when Sultan Mehmed II took Constantinople and restored Roman civilization. The Ottoman Empire made Eastern Roman civilization its own and preserved it.  

We expose our own ignorance and insensitivity when we fail to distinguish the Ottoman Empire from secular Turkey established by Kemal Pasha.  Turkish governments since the 1920's have likewise sought to forcefully divest citizens of the vestiges of Roman and Islamic traditions.  The origin of this westernization was Sultan Selim III's reorientation of Ottoman government adopting western policies from 1789 onwards leading to the Tanzimat and the Young Turks.  The excessive taxations thus implemented in the early nineteenth century were a departure from Ottoman tradition and resulted in unfortunately successful revolutions in Greece and Egypt.  

The Ottoman Empire lasted centuries longer than other eastern kingdoms like those of Attila and Ghengis Khan because they adopted the principles of Roman civilization.  As long as the Ottoman Empire was faithful to its founding principles, it maintained its status long after its height in the 1500's.  The Ottoman's abandonment of founding principles in favor of European ways was the cause of its demise.  

Modern Greece and Serbia are creations and puppets of western colonialism and nationalism (which itself derives from "enlightenment" ideology) which have systematically destroyed the vestiges of Roman and civilization in the Balkans.  
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 05:47:12 PM by Dionysii » Logged
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