Author Topic: Jurisidiction  (Read 13218 times)

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Offline Byzantine Christian

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Jurisidiction
« on: December 02, 2003, 02:37:27 PM »
This question is for all Converts to Holy Orthodoxy.

How did you guys choose a Jurisidiction?

In Christ


Offline David

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2003, 05:45:33 PM »
It was easy enough for me.  The priest where I converted was the father of one of my best friends(now my roomate in fact) from high school.  As I was growing ever more dissatisfied with my brief sojourn in Protestantism, I ran into the priest at a Protestant Bookstore that let him carry Orthodox books on consignment.  We had a brief conversation, and the next day I spent five hours at his house talking theology with him and left with a few cassette tapes and a copy of Of Water and the Spirit by Fr. Alexander Schmemann.  I am as happy today with the OCA as I was then when all I knew was GOC, AOC, and OCA.  There are problems, certainly, but I believe we are doing a great deal of good out there.  I look forward to the day when more jurisdictions work together to the point of conglomeration.
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Offline JoeS

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2003, 10:21:48 PM »
The question of jurisdiction was never a question, at least to me anyway.  I was searching for a more full expression of the Catholic Faith and upon reading and investigation my journey led first to an OCA parish in Philadelphia, Pa.  As a matter of fact it was an Albanian Orthodox church that I first had contact with.  I was sold on my first few hours of discussion with the priest that was assigned their.  I never looked back.  I am a former RC of 12 years in the Phila. parochial school system which has prepared me for the Orthodox life.

JoeS 8)

Offline TomS

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2003, 10:35:12 PM »
I married a Greek woman. End of story.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 02, 2003, 10:35:52 PM by SmoT »

Offline FrChris

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2003, 10:58:05 PM »
When it finally was apparent to me that I was ready for the Holy Orthodox Church, the closest church to me was in the GOA.

The people were very friendly, and hence I am in the GOA.
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline katherine 2001

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2003, 11:04:08 PM »
Because the mission where I live is OCA.  Since there was no Orthodox presence here when I first knew I wanted to attend an Orthodox Church, I was very grateful when this started.  I live in Montana, and the closest Orthodox church was 70 miles away.  In winter, it would often be impossible to make it.  We don't have a resident priest yet.  We have a priest that comes up once a month (if the roads allow him to) for vespers and liturgy.  The other weeks we have typica (or reader's) services.  I'm just grateful to have what I have.

Offline prodromos

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2003, 07:22:44 AM »
Like Tom, I married a Greek woman. Unlike Tom, I now live in Greece ;D.

There is an old calendar church not far from where we live but they are unfortunately schismatic (trust me on this OK)

John.

Offline TomS

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2003, 09:03:53 AM »
Like Tom, I married a Greek woman. Unlike Tom, I now live in Greece ;D.

Gimme time John. Niki inherited her grandmothers house in Mytalini.  :D

Offline Oblio

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2003, 09:10:32 AM »
Quote
Gimme time John. Niki inherited her grandmothers house in Mytalini.  

Shall we start planning the next Winterfest :)

Offline prodromos

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2003, 09:33:23 AM »
Hey Oblio, the monk we met at the airport was from Mytilini.  This can't be coincidence :o ;D






Well okay, it might be :D

Anyway, here is the plan. You all start saving up your money and I'll get in touch with Fr Theofanis to put us all up at the monastery on Mytilini ;D

John

Offline Doubting Thomas

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2003, 02:59:43 PM »
I recently informed my wife of my plans to step down from being a deacon in our baptist church and to start visiting some Orthodox churches.  The two closest ones to where we live are each about one hour away--an OCA mission church and a church under the EP (at least that's what the newspaper ad said). I've visited another OCA church this past summer closer to where my in-laws live and liked it.  This closer OCA mission has weekly reader's services and the Eucharist once month when the priest comes.  Apparently, this used to be an Evangelical Orthodox parish.  I'm less familiar with the EP church, but it appears they have liturgy weekly and more services and classes and such.

Any thoughts on going OCA as opposed to an EP church or vice versa?
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Offline PhosZoe

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2003, 03:08:33 PM »
What is EP?

We chose an Antiochian parish because it's the only orthodox parish within 60 miles! I live in a college town with a diverse group of people, my particular parish has everything from American born converts to Romanian, Russian, Syrian, Serbian, Greek and Bulgarian. (I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody) It makes parish life interesting to say the least. :D Especially since our priest is an American Convert.

On occaision, when weather and car permit, we attend a Serbian parish.

Offline David

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2003, 03:11:17 PM »
DT,

Is this the EP Parish?

Parish St Elizabeth Mission
Deanery Washington, D.C.
Priest Rev. Fr. Paul Stoll
Deacon N/A
Readers-Subdeacons N/A
Address 206 Deerchase Drive
City Woodstock
State Georgia
Zip 30188
Phone (770) 924-7181
Fax N/A
E-mail f.stoll@attbi.com
Website N/A  

If so, Linus7 would be the best contact, as he is an ACROD member.  I'd say go to whichever one you're more comfortable in.
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Offline Doubting Thomas

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2003, 03:19:12 PM »
DT,

Is this the EP Parish?

Parish St Elizabeth Mission
Deanery Washington, D.C.
Priest Rev. Fr. Paul Stoll
Deacon N/A
Readers-Subdeacons N/A
Address 206 Deerchase Drive
City Woodstock
State Georgia
Zip 30188
Phone (770) 924-7181
Fax N/A
E-mail f.stoll@attbi.com
Website N/A  

Yes, it is.

Quote
If so, Linus7 would be the best contact, as he is an ACROD member.  I'd say go to whichever one you're more comfortable in.  
Thanks, David.  BTW--what is "ACROD"?

PhosZoe,
EP = Ecumenical Patriarchate
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Offline Elisha

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2003, 03:22:51 PM »
ACROD = American Carpatho-Russion Orthdox Diocese (or something like that)

Mods, where's that acronymn thread?

Offline Oblio

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2003, 03:29:46 PM »
American Carpatho-Russian Diocese

see acrodnymfinder.com
« Last Edit: December 03, 2003, 03:35:21 PM by Oblio »

Offline nicodemus

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2003, 07:36:20 PM »
I'm in OCA.  For me, it was a combination of proximity and language.  There's a Greek church nearby, but they still do a good bit in Greek and they do the whole organ/pew thing, which I'm not into.  There's a Moscow Patriarchate parish in the general area, but it would be about a 45 minute drive and they do a decent bit in Russian I think.  OCA church nearby is all in English and the closest of the three.  Recently, an Antiochian parish has opened up but I believe it is Arabic language.  I enjoy Arabic music the most, but that's no reason to go switching parishes :D

Offline Karamazov

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2003, 08:40:48 PM »
Was raised Ukrainian Catholic (Uniate).  Was only natural that I should join Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada (Ecumenical Patriarch).  Dragged wife and kids along.

http://www.uocc.ca/

http://www.stmaryprotectress.mb.ca/

ps. sorry about the above linx.  seems my church doesn't like to update stuff very often.

pss:  JoeS and Katherine2001, your avatar is an icon from my church!  Honestly!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2003, 08:46:36 PM by Karamazov »

Offline gregory2

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2003, 09:09:16 PM »
Was born into the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of N & S America, as it was called then.  Only 1/2 Greek, and as I grew up, realized that culturally I'm much more American and cannot really relate to all that Greek festival stuff or liturgy in Greek (I'm sure if my mum were Greek I'd be more into it, but she isn't).  Also, I'm not a big fan of Eastern Orthodox organ music.  Through the years, I have worshipped in OCA, ACROD, ROCOR, and Antiochian parishes.  Now I call an OCA parish home.  

Let's pray for Orthodox unity -- what a disappointment "SCOBA" has been in that respect!

I love the words of Saint John of Shanghai and San Francisco, the Wonderworker -- "There's no such thing as separate 'jurisdictions' - we're all in Christ's juristiction!!"
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Offline TonyS

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2003, 12:37:14 AM »
Well I left the Ruthenian BCC for the OCA.  It would seem that I should have gone to the ACROD as that is the counterpart of the Ruthenian BCs.  Most people on this thread don't seem to be leaving the "Unia" for Orthodoxy though.

I think you have to find a parish that suits you in distance and language and in the other ways only you can determine.  You then integrate youself into that parish.  Later you will be able to percieve if other parishes of that same jurisdiction share the same qualities that attracted you to that parish.  If they do, great you've found a home jurisdictionally, if not that is fine, you still have a parish.  

Upon entering Holy Orthodoxy unless you have academic interest in some jurisdiction or a particular ethnic group because of ancestry or marriage, I really think you have to go where you feel welcomed and can worship and understand.
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Offline Byzantine Christian

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2003, 02:23:35 PM »
Nicodemus do you live in california, I know of a GOA parish that does the whole organ and pews thing. Its called St. Prophet Elais Greek Orthodox Church.  I have many orthodox parishes around me, I have a Coptic, Greek, Antiochian, Russian not to mention all the Eastern Rite Catholic Parishes.
Im in a good location but i dont know which Orthodox one is right.


Offline Elisha

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2003, 02:29:28 PM »
Nicodemus do you live in california, I know of a GOA parish that does the whole organ and pews thing. Its called St. Prophet Elais Greek Orthodox Church.  I have many orthodox parishes around me, I have a Coptic, Greek, Antiochian, Russian not to mention all the Eastern Rite Catholic Parishes.
Im in a good location but i dont know which Orthodox one is right.



If you're talking about the one in Santa Cruz, I've met the priest (Fr. Meletios Weber or Fr. Mel) but not visited the parish.  He's a London born Scot who went to Oxford and studied with Bishop Kallistos (he says AKA Super K).  Fr. Mel is great.  He spoke at a retreat I was at recently.  He wrote the book 12 Steps to Transformation (supposedly modeled somewhat after AA).

Offline JamesB

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2003, 09:06:04 PM »
I can answer the question about St. Elizabeth's!  Its my parish.

To begin, I'll say that we live two hours north of Atlanta, but the closest parish of any kind is in Atlanta.  We visited a ROCOR parish near Alpharetta, and really liked the priest and the people.  In the end, though, because we were converting as a family (H&W and 2 teenage daughters), we wanted to see if there was a fully english speaking parish available where we were all comfortable.  We lucked on what is probably the same newspaper ad you saw, and contacted the priest.

That was two years ago.  I resigned my Methodist pulpit after Pascha in 2002, we were all baptized in October of 2002, and have been at St. Elizabeth's the whole time.  Father Paul is a fine priest, and the people in the parish have been incredibly welcoming.  We are extremely happy there.  My oldest daughter (when shes not away at school) and I sing in the choir, and I, along with two others, will be tonsured as a reader the weekend after this in Johnstown.

Some people have issues with ACROD, but I find that there is no jurisdiction out there that doesn't have someone dissing it.  Suffice it to say that we are Orthodox.

EP, by the way, stands for Ecumenical Patriarch.  ACROD is a diocese under him.  Some people have issues with him, too, but see the above re: jurisdictions.

Come visit us anyway.  I'll be the red headed guy standing among what one of our altos calls "the droning basses".  As a bonus, although we're a little shy of sopranos at the moment, the choir is excellent.

If I do say so myself.

If you want more info or directions to our temporary quarters, feel free to contact me off list.

In Christ,

James

Offline TonyS

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2003, 09:16:37 PM »
I can answer the question about St. Elizabeth's!  Its my parish.

Can you tell me where St. Elizabeth's is please.  And, does it have a Carptho-Russian foundation (I mean the fouding community)?

Thanks!

Tony
Tómame como al tequila, de un golpe y sin pensarlo. - Ricardo Arjona

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Offline JamesB

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2003, 10:37:43 PM »
Tony asked:  "Can you tell me where St. Elizabeth's is please.  And, does it have a Carptho-Russian foundation (I mean the fouding community)?"

I think the founding members were people who had grown up in the Carpatho-Russian parishes in Pennsylvania and elsewhere, and then moved to Atlanta.  If I had to break down the parish, more or less, I'd say about 25% are cradle Carpatho-Russians, fifty percent are converts of various backgrounds, and 25 percent are people who are otherwise Orthodox, but not C-R -- some Russians, Greeks and Antiochians.  Our choir director grew up OCA, but I thank God every Sunday that she wandered into St. Elizabeth's!  Now if she could just get back now that her baby is born...

We meet in a chapel located on the grounds of a humongous Roman Catholic Church, St. Joseph's in Marietta.  There are some obvious disconnects:  a couple of statues of Christ and the Theotokos for starters, and we have to put our icons up on easels and stands.  Someday we'll get a real church.  But for now, its home.

These are directions I wrote for someone coming down I-575, north of town:

I-575 will merge into I-75 South.  Get onto I-75, but then take the first exit to the right.  This will be Highway 5.  When  you first get on it, it will be a divided highway.  It will very shortly come to a stop light.  Pass through that stop light, and then turn right at the next stop light onto Tower Road.

Go one block on Tower Road to a stop sign.  Turn left at the stop sign onto Campbell Hill Street.  You will then be passing behind Kennestone Hospital.  Go to the stop sign where Campbell Hill intersects Lacy Street.  Continue on Campbell Himm Street to the next right, and turn there.  Then immediately take the next right onto a residential street that goes up a fairly steep hill.  Park along the side of this street.  At the top of the hill you will find the Chapel of Peace.  Its a two story brick building, and you'll find us on the bottom.  Look for the clouds of smoke.  

For services that are not on Sundays, like Vespers and weekday feast days, we meet in a chapel in the basement of the rectory.  That address is the one shown in the ACROD directory.

I hope that helps.  Let me know if it is unclear.

James

Offline TonyS

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2003, 11:20:01 PM »
Tony asked:  "Can you tell me where St. Elizabeth's is please.  And, does it have a Carptho-Russian foundation (I mean the fouding community)?"

I think the founding members were people who had grown up in the Carpatho-Russian parishes in Pennsylvania and elsewhere, and then moved to Atlanta.  If I had to break down the parish, more or less, I'd say about 25% are cradle Carpatho-Russians, fifty percent are converts of various backgrounds, and 25 percent are people who are otherwise Orthodox, but not C-R -- some Russians, Greeks and Antiochians.  Our choir director grew up OCA, but I thank God every Sunday that she wandered into St. Elizabeth's!  Now if she could just get back now that her baby is born...


JamesB,

Thanks!  I am originally from Atlanta but when I lived there I was not Orthodox.  I hope I can visit next time I am down to see my mom.

TonyS
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Offline Strobert

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2003, 02:11:55 AM »
There are, in Grand Rapids, a Greek church and two Antiochian, and one Russian Orthodox (Moscow Patriarchate).  When I first became interesting in Orthodoxy, and wanted to attend services (but also continue going with my wife to our Protestant church), the new priest at the Russian church was holding Vespers several days a week, and doing Vespers and Matins on Saturday night.  The other churches in twn were pretty much restricted to Sunday morning liturgy, with some Saturday vespers.  This gave me an opportunity to attend some services at times other than Sunday morning.  It's a small church.  I like the Russian version of the 8 tones.  I got to know several of the members, and so, when I finally got to the point of wishing to enter through chrismation, that was the church I was most familiar with and most comfortable with.  Partly because there are many converts there, and the "ethnic" Russians are not very numerous.

Unfortunately, my wife continues to attend the Protestant church I left, but we have a good marriage, and have made the respectful adjustment to the situation.
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Offline NDHoosier

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2003, 02:49:57 AM »
Well, I really chose a parish rather than a jurisdiction...

However, I did take somewhat of the longer view, and kept the jurisdiction in mind.

I chose the most traditional parish in Indianapolis.  

It didn't hurt that I heard such good things about Metropolitan JOSEPH. (Bulgarian Patriarchate).
There ain't a horse that can't be rode, and there ain't a rider that can't be throwed.

Offline Byzantine Christian

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2003, 02:09:43 PM »
Elisha, yes Fr. Mel is the Pastor of St. Prophet Elias.
His parish has The Organ and the Chior with the Robes, and the pews. I was going to visit but that Kinda killed it after I visted the Antiochian Orthodox Parish near me.

Im in the Best location for Orthodox Parishes.

Coptic, Greek, Antiochian, Serbian, ROCOR, OCA, Moscow Patrirarchate Parishes. Its cool.

In Christ
« Last Edit: December 05, 2003, 02:11:19 PM by Byzantine Christian »

Offline Byzantine Christian

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2003, 02:14:00 PM »

Ive ruled out the OCA as a Possobliltiy, due to some of my views on certain issues, I get the ROCOR view of things. Spiritual Director is ROCOR 8)

In Christ.
Byzantine Catholic soon to be Orthodox Christian

Offline Doubting Thomas

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2003, 03:11:13 PM »
JamesB,

Thanks for the info!  I was the one who mentioned St. Elizabeth's.  I live in Rome, but my parents are still in Marietta so I don't consider that very far at all.  I'm going to have to go down and visit sometime, but in all likelihood it will be after the holidays.

Wow...so you were a Methodist minister?  I would like to read your conversion story if you don't mind posting it (or sending me a PM perhaps).

Thanks again!  :)

DT
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Offline TonyS

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2003, 04:01:23 PM »

Ive ruled out the OCA as a Possobliltiy, due to some of my views on certain issues, I get the ROCOR view of things. Spiritual Director is ROCOR 8)

In Christ.
Byzantine Catholic soon to be Orthodox Christian

For the benefit of the ongoing discussion please elaborate on your views and their incompatibility with the OCA.

Tómame como al tequila, de un golpe y sin pensarlo. - Ricardo Arjona

I'd be a fool to surrender when I know I can be a contender
and if everbody's a sinner then everybody can be a winner
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I'll see you when yo

Offline Doubting Thomas

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2003, 04:21:54 PM »

Ive ruled out the OCA as a Possobliltiy, due to some of my views on certain issues, I get the ROCOR view of things. Spiritual Director is ROCOR 8)

In Christ.
Byzantine Catholic soon to be Orthodox Christian

For the benefit of the ongoing discussion please elaborate on your views and their incompatibility with the OCA.



I would like to read this as well.  :)
"My Lord and My God!"--Doubting Thomas, AD 33

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2003, 04:30:16 PM »
My first exposure to the spiritual side of Orthodoxy(as opposed to some of its cultural aspects) came through  a bishop-less ex-HOOM parish that later became Bulgarian(they didn't have any Bulgarians though :) . A good portion of my family is Orthodox, but nominally. I was the product of mixed marriages, etc. so I wasn't Orthodox. When my family members do attend church it's either a Ukrainian parish of the EP, and some other ones might go to any local Orthodox parish ...not really being concerned with jurisdiction as they will go just for Pascha. Anyway, I might have considered a Ukrainian EP parish but there were none around.

So, at this soon to be Bulgarian parish they really valued the writings of Fr. Seraphim Rose and some of Jordanville's greats of the past. This is the Orthodoxy I was first "sold" on. When I first encountered this parish they were without a bishop, recuperating from the Pangratios mess and still very insular in some respects.  I ended up leaving this parish after a little less than a year and settling in at a local OCA parish that I wasn't too keen on...I was aware of the history of the OCA and what I perceive to be somewhat of a betrayal in their accepting autocephaly from Moscow in the 1970's. I would have liked to attend a ROCOR parish at that point but the only option was a parish that uses Slavonic almost exclusively, which wouldn't have worked for me. Anyway, I stayed at this OCA parish for a few years, going to the local ROCOR parish about once a month for feast days of saints' that my parish didn't have.

When I moved from that area this Fall I settled down at a nice little English ROCOR mission a little over an hour from me. The choice to go with ROCOR was based primarily on ROCOR's path of integrity in regards to the value they place on monasticism and remaining Patristic, the stances they've taken in the past regarding the Moscow Patriarchate, their recognition and spiritual unity with the New Martyrs of Russia, their traditional Orthodox piety, and a number of other things. I believe this rich history is manifested at the parish level. Mostly, I feel comfortable in this ROCOR parish and that's why I'm there (I also like talking Ukrainian heritage with a nice Ukrainian lady there.. :) ) Though the hows and whys of the OCA autocephaly don't sit right with me, I would attend an OCA parish if it had the same "flavor" that brought me into the Church in the first place. At this point, I'm mostly basing my decisions on which church to attend by the feeling of individual parishes, not solely by jurisdictional affiliation.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2003, 04:45:01 PM by Bogoliubtsy »
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Offline Oblio

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2003, 05:10:38 PM »
We meet in a chapel located on the grounds of a humongous Roman Catholic Church, St. Joseph's in Marietta.  There are some obvious disconnects:  a couple of statues of Christ and the Theotokos for starters, and we have to put our icons up on easels  

James, I didn't realize ya'll drove to Atlanta for services, we'll have to drive up and meet some Sunday.

Offline Linus7

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2003, 05:26:13 PM »
JamesB -

I belong to an ACROD parish, as well: Nativity of Our Lord, Manassas, Virginia (over an hour's drive away from my home).

The fact that you used to be a Methodist pastor reminded me of another former Methodist pastor who is now a ROCOR priest, Father John Moses.

Here is a link to his church.

Fr. John is great guy, but his church is a little too far from my home, and we are quite happy in ACROD anyway.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2003, 05:33:27 PM by Linus7 »
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
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Offline Elisha

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2003, 06:28:08 PM »
At this point, I'm mostly basing my decisions on which church to attend by the feeling of individual parishes, not solely by jurisdictional affiliation.

Even though I respect you for your personal decisions, the above is how it should ALWAYS be for any Orthodox.  Converts especially should be thinking this way as to not develop a political mindset.  Remember, everyone, the praxis is the most important part.

Offline Karamazov

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2003, 07:47:43 PM »
At this point, I'm mostly basing my decisions on which church to attend by the feeling of individual parishes, not solely by jurisdictional affiliation.

Even though I respect you for your personal decisions, the above is how it should ALWAYS be for any Orthodox.  Converts especially should be thinking this way as to not develop a political mindset.  Remember, everyone, the praxis is the most important part.

I think there is a certain danger in seeking out a parish that "feels right," Orthodox or otherwise.  It seems to me it is a reflection of the "What's in it for me?" attitude.  I think that our primary purpose in attending church is to participate in Liturgy - the "common work" of the people of the Church.  

Fr. Thomas Hopko wrote "The Divine Liturgy is the common action of Orthodox Christians officially gathered to constitute the Orthodox Church.  It is the action of the Church assembled by God in order to be together in one community to worship, to pray, to sing, to hear God's word, to be instructed in God's commandments, to offer itself with thansgiving in Christ to God the Father, and to have the living experience of God's eternal kingdom through communion with the same Christ Who is present in his people by the Holy Spirit."   Hopko does not say "It's a place that makes me feel warm and gushy."  

That being said, though, it is nice for the parish to feel "right" right off the bat, because then we can "bank" those good feelings for when the times get rough and lees warm/fuzzy.  Trust me when I say that things will not always be rosy in your parish.  That Priest you think is the cat's meow will get transferred to Walla-Walla, and a new priest with an entirely different personality will replace him, much to your dismay.  Or, a new convert or somebody who moved to your quaint village of Nowheresville will start attending your church - a person who, as you get to know her, will annoy you to absolutely no end.  And on top of it all, she will befriend everybody at church, leaving you to wonder "Am I the only one who can't stand that cow?"  

The point is, when the going gets rough, will you divorce yourself from the church (or even the Orthodox Church) to go find another church where you feel warm and cozy again?  Or, will you stick it out and make things work, like you should be doing with your marriage at home?  Remember - if you are a convert to Orthodoxy, you probably went church-shopping and endured a number of church "divorces" before arriving at Holy Orthodoxy.  You divorced before - who's to say you won't do it again?  

Be vigilant and perservere!  Fight the good fight!  That's my prayer for you all today!  May you endure, persevere, and triumph over periods of despair, and show true determination and dedication to God and His will.

Finally, a word from G.K. Chesterton, who remarked: "He who marries the spirit of the age soon finds himself a widower."

-Karamazov

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2003, 08:05:03 PM »

I think there is a certain danger in seeking out a parish that "feels right," Orthodox or otherwise.  It seems to me it is a reflection of the "What's in it for me?" attitude.  

I understand ...and that's a huge part of the reason I stayed in the OCA parish before I moved- because it was where I started and as difficult as it got, I was determined to remain there despite many obstacles.
Also, let's be realistic. If you have an option between several parishes, you're not going to randomly select one to stay at and hope for the best. You're going to find the one that you feel will bring you closer to Christ. I suppose using the term "comfortable" was a bit misleading. I don't really mean comfort, but the parish I feel I can "progress" towards Christ in. My new parish is by no means "comfortable" in terms of worldly comfort. I'm expected to go to confession more here than at my previous parish. I'm forced to talk with people more and be closer with the priest. These are all spiritually good things for me, but not "comfortable" or "gushy".
I know temptations will come in a new parish. They always do. I'm more than well aware of that and hopefully I'll be preserved to some degree from being too critical or becoming too agitated by certain things. I also hope that I'll be preserved from becoming agitated by presumption on online forums.  :P

« Last Edit: December 05, 2003, 08:08:21 PM by Bogoliubtsy »
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline Elisha

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2003, 09:07:11 PM »
Yes, Karamozov, but what you are talking about is more like the "cult of Priest X".  If there are singular people, learn to deal with it.  And your parish is your parish.

BUT, if one thinks that a certain jurisdiction (or sub-jurisdiction, like former AEOM or HOOM parishes or whatever) has issues, then I don't see why you don't have the right to be comfortable in your parish.  This also brings up another issue.  Many people I know in my area drive distances of at least an hour to go to parish X, when there are several fine parishes much closer (even within the same jurisdiction!).  There's a lot to be said about belonging to the community.  This doesn't happen when there's a disconnect from your residence, workplace and church (especially when you really can help it).  Of course, only in America do we really have to worry about these things.  There aren't "jurisdictions" really to worry about in Romania, Russia and Greece (at least not in the American sense).

Offline Karamazov

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2003, 11:31:55 PM »

I think there is a certain danger in seeking out a parish that "feels right," Orthodox or otherwise.  It seems to me it is a reflection of the "What's in it for me?" attitude.  
I also hope that I'll be preserved from becoming agitated by presumption on online forums.  :P

Forgive me if I was being presumptuous.. Never intended to agitate you either.  Hope you weren't...
 :)

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2003, 11:40:14 PM »
Karamazov,
I pretty much agree with everything you wrote above. I'll admit it, my remark above was probably in response to the little jab my ego took from reading it. Don't you have faith in your 3rd generation fellow Ukie brethren?  :)
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline Karamazov

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2003, 11:11:54 AM »
Karamazov,
I pretty much agree with everything you wrote above. I'll admit it, my remark above was probably in response to the little jab my ego took from reading it. Don't you have faith in your 3rd generation fellow Ukie brethren?  :)

Probably, just have little faith in myself.  Worried about all the converts, such as myself, who hopefully will stick with Holy Orthodoxy after the "honeymoon" is over. :-";"xx

Offline Byzantine Christian

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2003, 02:34:15 AM »

Marietta, thats not far from me, im Riverside area.

Me Methodist Minister? Not me.


My Reasons for ruleing out the OCA? The False autocephaly, for starters, and because of there views on Ecumenism (more then any other Jurisdiction) and there Liberal Nature in general.

In Christ


Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:Jurisidiction
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2003, 03:45:23 AM »
and because of there views on Ecumenism (more then any other Jurisdiction) and there Liberal Nature in general.

I'm pretty sure the OCA gets "outdone" by many other jurisdictions in regards to ecumenism.
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara