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Author Topic: "Male and female He created them" - sometimes in one person?  (Read 1738 times) Average Rating: 0
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Heorhij
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« on: September 20, 2009, 01:15:30 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irp8CNj9qBI

Beautiful, original, amazing, breathtaking... Could this have been created without this striking androginy in the person of their leading singer (especially), and without this strange, eery touch of maleness and femaleness in all of them?

And David Bowie... sometimes he dressed, and spoke, and sang like a woman, and took pictures and posed for filming like a woman. On other occasions, he showed harsh, gutsy virility.

Sinful perversion... or an inalieanable part of the Divine Creation and providence?

Thoughts -?
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2009, 07:57:44 PM »

Been quite a while, no responses... is it like peoples has nothin' to say...?

Other,...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMz-wi50ACU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxbFLYa0_bw
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 08:14:05 PM by Heorhij » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2009, 08:25:51 PM »

A friend was talking to me about a documentary she saw on the intersexed - not that I'm saying that David Bowie or the person in the video are such cases. It's very rare, but it does seem that it is possible for someone to appear female, to have been brought up and consider themselves to be such and then actually discover that they are male. This might only be discovered when that person married and had problems conceiving a child. Tests would then reveal that the female was genetically male. Rare as this might be, this is all very sad.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 08:26:28 PM by Riddikulus » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2009, 08:48:16 PM »

A friend was talking to me about a documentary she saw on the intersexed - not that I'm saying that David Bowie or the person in the video are such cases. It's very rare, but it does seem that it is possible for someone to appear female, to have been brought up and consider themselves to be such and then actually discover that they are male. This might only be discovered when that person married and had problems conceiving a child. Tests would then reveal that the female was genetically male. Rare as this might be, this is all very sad.

Riddi, but Bowie and Freddie Mercury were not quite like that, AFAIK... they did not need any tests because they REALLY WERE MALE *AND*FEMALE... Of course, there are thousands of thousands of transgender people, etc., but there are also people who are not male OR female, but both in one person (hypostasis)...
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2009, 09:05:37 PM »

Yes, but they weren't so severely *handicapped* that they were diagnosed as female at birth. Obviously they had all the correct plumbing, so to speak; so the gender diversity, for want of a better word, results as an effeminate male. Seems to me that this works both ways, for there are women who are very masculine. Something in the genetics affects a person's sexuality and, no doubt, their sexual expression. We have known about hermaphrodites for thousands of years, but this is something more subtle, something we are only just beginning to understand. Perhaps it's something that should give us pause in judging the sexuality of others.

Sorry, I'm so clumsy in expressing my opinion, here. Does this make any sense to you?
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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2009, 09:17:42 PM »

Yes, but they weren't so severely *handicapped* that they were diagnosed as female at birth. Obviously they had all the correct plumbing, so to speak; so the gender diversity, for want of a better word, results as an effeminate male. Seems to me that this works both ways, for there are women who are very masculine. Something in the genetics affects a person's sexuality and, no doubt, their sexual expression. We have known about hermaphrodites for thousands of years, but this is something more subtle, something we are only just beginning to understand. Perhaps it's something that should give us pause in judging the sexuality of others.

Sorry, I'm so clumsy in expressing my opinion, here. Does this make any sense to you?

Yes, perfectly! The traditional notion of "hermaphrodites" implied that these individuals have male an female genitalia. This most probably is not true for Freddie Mercury (the Queen leading guitarist and singer) or David Bowie or others like these two guys (gals? guyals?). They are very peculiar - they have one "phenotype" (masculine, or, for some others like them, perhaps, feminine), and yet two identities, masculine AND feminine...

In other words... I am just trying to put myself in Freddie Mercury's or Dawid Bowie's shoes. Yes, I have a penis and I do not have a vagina. But, but... nevertheless, I feel like I am a guy and I am a gal. If I so think, if I am so inclined, I can hide my external genitalia (and that's really not all that difficult to do), and I can grow long hair, and I can dress like a gal, and I can sing in a soprano voice. It's not artificial for me -no, it is natural, because SHE is ALSO what *I* AM. I was BORN that way. Never for one split second in my entire life there was any other scenario for me. So... did GOD create me this way? Or am I, like so many people who are either not like me, or are like me but are ashamed to admit they are like me, say, I am a sinful abomination???
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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2009, 09:27:46 PM »

I don't really see what someone does with their genitalia as the big issue with regard to what is an abomination. Seems to me, the more important issue is how someone treats their fellow creatures; not the luck of the draw of how one is born.
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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2009, 09:47:21 PM »

just want to point out that Brian May, not Freddie Mercury, played guitar for Queen. Freddie just sang.
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 07:51:35 AM »

just want to point out that Brian May, not Freddie Mercury, played guitar for Queen. Freddie just sang.

Thank you! But they all, the whole band, look somewhat "adroginic" on their clips.

There is a movie where the two main characters are like that. It's titled "Velvet Goldmine," directed by Todd Haynes.

I have been thinking lately, just how little we know about phenomena like androginy. So many people are perhaps hiding, fearing rejection - and living fake lives, "somebody else's lives."
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2009, 11:46:35 AM »

First of all, remember, folks, David and Freddie also made a nice living off this shtick in show biz.

Second, when people talk about feeling like a man trapped in a woman's body or vice versa, or both together. I don't have the least idea what they are talking about. I have never felt either male or female, whatever it means to feel like a man or a woman.
I've always just felt like myself, an individual. Even as a tot, I remember feeling that way. Not me as a girl. Or me as a boy. Or me as both.
Just me. Huh
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2009, 12:03:47 PM »

just want to point out that Brian May, not Freddie Mercury, played guitar for Queen. Freddie just sang.

Not to get off track again, but Freddie occasionally played acoustic or electric guitar on a few songs live such as "Crazy Little Thing Called Love."

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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2009, 07:09:54 PM »

First of all, remember, folks, David and Freddie also made a nice living off this shtick in show biz.

Second, when people talk about feeling like a man trapped in a woman's body or vice versa, or both together. I don't have the least idea what they are talking about. I have never felt either male or female, whatever it means to feel like a man or a woman.
I've always just felt like myself, an individual. Even as a tot, I remember feeling that way. Not me as a girl. Or me as a boy. Or me as both.
Just me. Huh

I know what you mean, but for people with this problem the pain is great. People who don't understand this situation can be very callous, too. But imagine having this kind of problem and people insisting that it is demonic; that the problem isn't genetic, it's "all in the mind", a perversion and an abomination. Lord, have mercy.
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2009, 07:22:11 PM »

What about Kleinfelter Syndrome which is a genetic disorder and which is observed in the DNA...they have one extra male chromosome which leads to developmental problems and sexual peculiarities ...is this demonic? we sure didn't know about it until we started or were able to map chromosomes.
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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2009, 01:12:04 AM »

Heorhij,


People are born with all kinds of different tendencies. Is your index finger the same size as your pointer finger? A good number of effeminate males have this trait. Now this doesn't mean they are gay, for alot of effeminate men are not, but we are all born with certain tendencies, urges, desires, cravings......ect. that we have to learn to control and master.

I think the issue of effeminate men and masculine women maybe a hormone / thyroid issue......with the Second law of thermodynamics combined with alot of other things I feel that we are born in a World where we decay, and so variations are bound to happen.



Christianity is a moderate ascetical Religion where we delay self gratification of whatever internal craving/desire. We are a Faith of self-control and mastery in many ways. We say no to some of the things we want in favor for some of the things we need. We say no to self alot......maybe not in all areas but in a number of areas.








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« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2010, 09:36:59 AM »

There are some people born XX who are physiologically (and genetically, really are) male. This is caused by the X and Y chromosomes accidentally transcribing into eachother... Genetically they are completely women and completely men.

It's also possible and has happened that two eggs in one women were fertilized by different men and then combined creating chimeras. People never find out unless they have blood work done for some reason which will reveal there are two DNA sets of two half siblings coming from one person.
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« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2010, 02:33:11 PM »

When fraternal twins merge in the womb, a chimera is created.  If one of the twins is female and the other is male, the result is a true hermaphrodite, which is readily distinguishable.

If both twins are of the same sex, the chimerism may go undetected for years till one has children whose DNA doesn't match his/hers.
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