OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 29, 2014, 05:01:30 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Circumcision in Orthodoxy  (Read 13377 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA (Old Calendar)
Posts: 6,789



« on: September 15, 2009, 01:48:45 AM »

My first child is due in December, and it's a boy!  So I've been wondering, back in the Orthodox lands, do the Greek, Slavic and Arabic Eastern Orthodox Catholics usually circumcise their infant males?  I know that some of the Oriental Miaphysites do, as well as many Protestants in North America (for supposed medical reasons). 

How do the Orthodox understand circumcision?  Is it seen as being tied in with the Mosaic law, and thus frowned upon?  Is it common, as Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism?  Do people not really care either way?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 01:48:54 AM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
deusveritasest
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Jurisdiction: None
Posts: 7,528



WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2009, 02:03:34 AM »

There's no teaching of the Church in this matter, other than it's not necessary. You'll have to decide on the basis of your conscience.
Logged

I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2009, 02:43:19 AM »

It's not practised in Europe and would be considered at least eccentric.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,090


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2009, 02:50:26 AM »

The Divine Liturgy of our Ethiopian Orthodox Church says, "Let us not be circumcised like the Jews, for He who has fulfilled the Law has already come." But interestingly, circumcision is still widely practiced by most Ethiopian Orthodox Christians. There are many Judaic customs to which Ethiopian Orthodox Christians still adhere, such as circumcision and not eating pork. But I did not have my two sons circumcised, and I would not do so if I were to have another son. In my opinion, there is no theological or medical reason to do so. Why cause an infant such unnecessary pain? And why deprive him of part of the body with which God created him? Also, I think circumcision is unfortunately a profiteering racket of the medical community. When both of my sons were born, the people at the hospital just assumed that I wanted to have my sons circumcised. I had to be very adamant about telling them "NO! I do NOT want my sons circumcised!"

But I certainly don't pass judgment on those who practice circumcision, especially my Ethiopian brethren. I'm just offering you my humble opinion.

Selam
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 02:51:56 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

"If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you along the way, you will never reach your goal." [Turkish Proverb]
deusveritasest
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Jurisdiction: None
Posts: 7,528



WWW
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2009, 03:28:27 AM »


In my opinion, there is no theological or medical reason to do so. Why cause an infant such unnecessary pain? And why deprive him of part of the body with which God created him?

Completely agree!
Logged

I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com
LBK
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,209


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2009, 03:56:15 AM »

Circumcision under the Mosaic Law is the prefiguration of Christian baptism. Baptism is the fulfilment of the old Law with regard to those who become God's people. There is no theological reason for an Orthodox Christian to need to be circumcised.
Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA (Old Calendar)
Posts: 6,789



« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2009, 04:09:09 AM »

What if my reasoning is practical rather than theological?  I am circumcised, and my wife is worried that the son needs to look like his father for his own psychological security. 

Although, I was not planning on showing my son my penis, but whatever.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 04:09:30 AM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,090


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2009, 04:26:05 AM »

What if my reasoning is practical rather than theological?  I am circumcised, and my wife is worried that the son needs to look like his father for his own psychological security. 

Although, I was not planning on showing my son my penis, but whatever.

Well, my sons have never had any issues whatsoever with this. I also think that, "practically," there is a purpose for the foreskin. Also, the psychological security of your son has everything to do with your love, affirmation, and discipline as his father, and much less to do with physical resemblence.

My humble advice (and I am certainly no Priest), is that you as the male head of your household gently and lovingly explain to your wife why you think it's best not to have your son circumcised. Reassure her that you will take full repsonsibility for teaching your son how to clean himself in that area. (That was my wife's main concern- the cleanliness thing. But my sons have had no problems at all in regards to their hygeine and health in that area.)

But if you are really struggling with this decision, then by all means consult your Priest.

Selam
Logged

"If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you along the way, you will never reach your goal." [Turkish Proverb]
AlexanderOfBergamo
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Traditionalist Christian
Jurisdiction: The Original First Millennium Church
Posts: 706


« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2009, 07:36:37 AM »

In the freedom of the Kingdom of God, I don't see any reason to impose or deny circumcision by the Church, as it is unnecessary to be a Christian. St. Paul clearly defended the uncircumcised to keep as they were called in the Faith, but never discouraged those of Jewish origins to abandon it. I think tradition was the most importante source of judgment to decide on circumcision. That's why the Ethiopians, who can legitimately claim Jewish origins through Solomon's son Menelik, have kept this tradition as well as the 1st century Judeo-Christians under the lead of Patriarch st. James, brother of Jesus. Luckily, God gave many traditions in the unity of Faith, so that we can appreciate and enjoy these differences.

In Christ,   Alex
Logged

"Also in the Catholic Church itself we take great care that we hold that which has been believed everywhere, always, by all. For that is truly and properly Catholic" (St. Vincent of Lérins, "The Commonitory")
AlexanderOfBergamo
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Traditionalist Christian
Jurisdiction: The Original First Millennium Church
Posts: 706


« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2009, 07:43:33 AM »

I'll add st. Paul's words on the subject:
Quote
Is any man called, being circumcised? let him not procure uncircumcision. Is any man called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing: but the observance of the commandments of God. Let every man abide in the same calling in which he was called. (1 Corinthians 7:18-20)
Logged

"Also in the Catholic Church itself we take great care that we hold that which has been believed everywhere, always, by all. For that is truly and properly Catholic" (St. Vincent of Lérins, "The Commonitory")
GammaRay
The Awful Preacher
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 574


Alexandros Papadiamantis


« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2009, 09:39:50 AM »

If there's no medical reason or certain health issues, then don't even bother.

God bless your child! Smiley
Logged

Though I've walked the valley of the shadow of the death, I've fallen not. Not completely. Not yet.
admiralnick
Cardinal, Editor for Photogalleries
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,880


« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2009, 10:25:34 AM »

All I will point out on this topic is that we celebrate the Circumcision of Christ on January 1 (or 14 depending on your calendar).

-Nick
Logged

The ORIGINAL: "NULL"
Ionnis
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,069



« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2009, 12:26:50 PM »

Personally, I'm opposed to the practice.  Leave him as he is. 
Logged

"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the church door, you will not find Him in the chalice.”  -The Divine John Chrysostom

“Till we can become divine, we must be content to be human, lest in our hurry for change we sink to something lower.” -Anthony Trollope
BoredMeeting
Loving the Life of a Council Member
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic Christian
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox/OCA
Posts: 721



« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2009, 02:42:24 PM »

In my opinion, there is no theological or medical reason to do so. Why cause an infant such unnecessary pain? And why deprive him of part of the body with which God created him?
Completely agree!
A medical student in my old fraternity got circumcised in his early twenties because of the medical arguments for circumcision.

So, the moral of the story is that it's 100% ok to allow him to grow to adulthood and make his own decision.
Logged
deusveritasest
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Jurisdiction: None
Posts: 7,528



WWW
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2009, 05:24:23 PM »


What if my reasoning is practical rather than theological?  I am circumcised, and my wife is worried that the son needs to look like his father for his own psychological security.

That's some really weird reasoning to go out of one's way to cut off the tip of one's child's penis.
Logged

I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com
deusveritasest
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Jurisdiction: None
Posts: 7,528



WWW
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2009, 05:26:25 PM »


All I will point out on this topic is that we celebrate the Circumcision of Christ on January 1 (or 14 depending on your calendar).

-Nick

...

How does that connect to this topic?
Logged

I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com
dirtyharry667
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 22


« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2009, 06:39:01 PM »

What if my reasoning is practical rather than theological?  I am circumcised, and my wife is worried that the son needs to look like his father for his own psychological security. 

Although, I was not planning on showing my son my penis, but whatever.

I was circumcised thanks to my Jewish pediatrician, so was my brother.  When my nephew was born, he was also circumcised.  Ironically, his sister-in-law asked him the same question if they do this in Europe?

I look at it this way.  Who cares if there is a theological reason or not?  It's medically proven to be more sanitary.  Besides, Jews are smart and if they do it that's good enough for me.

Logged

NULL
deusveritasest
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Jurisdiction: None
Posts: 7,528



WWW
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2009, 07:34:36 PM »


It's medically proven to be more sanitary.

Not to a significant enough degree.


Besides, Jews are smart and if they do it that's good enough for me.

*facepalm*
Logged

I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,956


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2009, 07:38:44 PM »


It's medically proven to be more sanitary.

Not to a significant enough degree.

I don't think either side is going to convince the other here unless some sort of support pro/con is presented (i.e. links to articles about, or texts of, studies/research/etc.).
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2009, 09:40:30 PM »


What if my reasoning is practical rather than theological?  I am circumcised, and my wife is worried that the son needs to look like his father for his own psychological security.

That's some really weird reasoning to go out of one's way to cut off the tip of one's child's penis.

No, the covering, and you don't need it.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2009, 09:43:16 PM »

My first child is due in December, and it's a boy!  So I've been wondering, back in the Orthodox lands, do the Greek, Slavic and Arabic Eastern Orthodox Catholics usually circumcise their infant males?  I know that some of the Oriental Miaphysites do, as well as many Protestants in North America (for supposed medical reasons). 

How do the Orthodox understand circumcision?  Is it seen as being tied in with the Mosaic law, and thus frowned upon?  Is it common, as Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism?  Do people not really care either way?

Congratulations!  I wasn't aware you were that old.

Yes, Arabs do it.  Greeks, Slavs, Romanians, Armenians don't.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
lizzyd
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 54


« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2009, 10:19:51 PM »

Quote
In my opinion, there is no theological or medical reason to do so. Why cause an infant such unnecessary pain? And why deprive him of part of the body with which God created him?

Ditto. Baby boys should not be subject to a routine cosmetic surgery.

Your son is never going to look 100% like you, so I don't see why he would be concerned if your penises are not exactly the same. If you have brown hair and his is blonde, will you dye it to match yours?
Logged
dirtyharry667
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 22


« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2009, 10:44:01 PM »


Congratulations!  I wasn't aware you were that old.

Yes, Arabs do it.  Greeks, Slavs, Romanians, Armenians don't.

We did!
Logged

NULL
deusveritasest
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Jurisdiction: None
Posts: 7,528



WWW
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2009, 10:54:20 PM »


What if my reasoning is practical rather than theological?  I am circumcised, and my wife is worried that the son needs to look like his father for his own psychological security.

That's some really weird reasoning to go out of one's way to cut off the tip of one's child's penis.

No, the covering, and you don't need it.

The foreskin, while being the covering of the penis, because it envelopes the head and extends beyond it, in effect constitutes the tip of the penis, at least for those who have it.

The fact that it is not needed doesn't really mean much of anything.
Logged

I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2009, 10:58:35 PM »

Quote
In my opinion, there is no theological or medical reason to do so. Why cause an infant such unnecessary pain? And why deprive him of part of the body with which God created him?

Ditto. Baby boys should not be subject to a routine cosmetic surgery.

Oh? Why not?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
deusveritasest
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Jurisdiction: None
Posts: 7,528



WWW
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2009, 11:05:10 PM »

Quote
In my opinion, there is no theological or medical reason to do so. Why cause an infant such unnecessary pain? And why deprive him of part of the body with which God created him?

Ditto. Baby boys should not be subject to a routine cosmetic surgery.

Oh? Why not?

Causing great pain to an infant, mutilating them, destroying a section of their nervous system, and leaving them lacking in a natural sexual function for the rest of their lives, for no reason of equivalent value, is simply ridiculous.
Logged

I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2009, 11:07:43 PM »

Quote
In my opinion, there is no theological or medical reason to do so. Why cause an infant such unnecessary pain? And why deprive him of part of the body with which God created him?

Ditto. Baby boys should not be subject to a routine cosmetic surgery.

Oh? Why not?

Causing great pain to an infant, mutilating them, destroying a section of their nervous system, and leaving them lacking in a natural sexual function for the rest of their lives, for no reason of equivalent value, is simply ridiculous.

Great pain?  Ever see one? Mutilating, that's a loaded term.  The nervous system myth is just that, and the foreskin serves no natural sexual function.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
deusveritasest
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Jurisdiction: None
Posts: 7,528



WWW
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2009, 11:36:48 PM »


Great pain?  Ever see one?

Yes. The pain is obvious.


Mutilating, that's a loaded term.

Mutilation is simply the intentional damaging of tissue that (long term) affects the appearance or function of the body. I don't see how circumcision does not obviously fit under this?


The nervous system myth is just that,

http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/winkelmann2


and the foreskin serves no natural sexual function.

Other than the protection and preservation of the head as a mucous membrane.
Logged

I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com
LBK
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,209


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2009, 11:57:58 PM »

Your son is never going to look 100% like you, so I don't see why he would be concerned if your penises are not exactly the same. If you have brown hair and his is blonde, will you dye it to match yours?

lizzyd, thank you so much for this post. This is the most sensible and utterly irrefutable reply to the notion "worried that the son needs to look like his father for his own psychological security". What, is a lad's psychological makeup SO tied up with what his penis looks like? C'mon, already! This is the sort of stuff the "radical feminist" brigade (oyyy!) feed off.  Tongue
Logged
BoredMeeting
Loving the Life of a Council Member
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic Christian
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox/OCA
Posts: 721



« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2009, 12:06:08 PM »

Sir Richard Burton (the explorer, not the actor) was circumcised as an adult and greatly regretted it because of a loss of sexual sensation.

I guess there's probably a way to scientifically verify that but I haven't seen it done.
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2009, 01:14:32 PM »


Great pain?  Ever see one?

Yes. The pain is obvious.


Mutilating, that's a loaded term.

Mutilation is simply the intentional damaging of tissue that (long term) affects the appearance or function of the body. I don't see how circumcision does not obviously fit under this?

Like ear piercing.



The nervous system myth is just that,

http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/winkelmann2


and the foreskin serves no natural sexual function.

Other than the protection and preservation of the head as a mucous membrane.

Smegma collection is not sexy.

Btw, I do recall someone finally did a study on all the Russian Jews who became circumcized after immigrating to Tel Aviv. It deflated the hysteria over the issue.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2009, 01:16:08 PM »

Your son is never going to look 100% like you, so I don't see why he would be concerned if your penises are not exactly the same. If you have brown hair and his is blonde, will you dye it to match yours?

lizzyd, thank you so much for this post. This is the most sensible and utterly irrefutable reply to the notion "worried that the son needs to look like his father for his own psychological security". What, is a lad's psychological makeup SO tied up with what his penis looks like? C'mon, already! This is the sort of stuff the "radical feminist" brigade (oyyy!) feed off.  Tongue


LOL.  I'll believe it when I meet the man more worried about his hair color than his penis.....
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,562


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2009, 03:46:49 PM »

Your son is never going to look 100% like you, so I don't see why he would be concerned if your penises are not exactly the same. If you have brown hair and his is blonde, will you dye it to match yours?

lizzyd, thank you so much for this post. This is the most sensible and utterly irrefutable reply to the notion "worried that the son needs to look like his father for his own psychological security". What, is a lad's psychological makeup SO tied up with what his penis looks like? C'mon, already! This is the sort of stuff the "radical feminist" brigade (oyyy!) feed off.  Tongue


LOL.  I'll believe it when I meet the man more worried about his hair color than his penis.....
That is, if the man has any hair left to color.
Logged
admiralnick
Cardinal, Editor for Photogalleries
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,880


« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2009, 03:49:08 PM »


All I will point out on this topic is that we celebrate the Circumcision of Christ on January 1 (or 14 depending on your calendar).

-Nick

...

How does that connect to this topic?

Christ was Circumcised, therefore it is perfectly acceptable to immitate him and be circumcised, I'm sorry you couldn't connect the dots.....

-Nick
Logged

The ORIGINAL: "NULL"
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,956


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2009, 06:22:32 PM »


All I will point out on this topic is that we celebrate the Circumcision of Christ on January 1 (or 14 depending on your calendar).

-Nick

...

How does that connect to this topic?

Christ was Circumcised, therefore it is perfectly acceptable to immitate him and be circumcised, I'm sorry you couldn't connect the dots.....

-Nick

Right (I don't know why he didn't see it either), which brings us back to the best point in the thread - don't force it, don't hate it.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
deusveritasest
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Jurisdiction: None
Posts: 7,528



WWW
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2009, 07:24:43 PM »


All I will point out on this topic is that we celebrate the Circumcision of Christ on January 1 (or 14 depending on your calendar).

-Nick

...

How does that connect to this topic?

Christ was Circumcised, therefore it is perfectly acceptable to immitate him and be circumcised, I'm sorry you couldn't connect the dots.....

-Nick

Christ had a significantly more legitimate reason for being circumcised than pretty much anyone on this thread would have.
Logged

I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com
lizzyd
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 54


« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2009, 09:03:40 PM »

Quote

Right (I don't know why he didn't see it either), which brings us back to the best point in the thread - don't force it, don't hate it.

I don't hate those that do it, but I do hate the act itself. Not only is there no benefit, but there is much room for harm. It removes highly sensory tissue, causes pain and stress, can lead to complications including death. Why do this for something that is a cosmetic issue?
Logged
Punch
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Body of Christ
Posts: 5,098



« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2009, 10:24:27 PM »

Quote
In my opinion, there is no theological or medical reason to do so. Why cause an infant such unnecessary pain? And why deprive him of part of the body with which God created him?

Ditto. Baby boys should not be subject to a routine cosmetic surgery.

Oh? Why not?

Causing great pain to an infant, mutilating them, destroying a section of their nervous system, and leaving them lacking in a natural sexual function for the rest of their lives, for no reason of equivalent value, is simply ridiculous.

Great pain?  Ever see one? Mutilating, that's a loaded term.  The nervous system myth is just that, and the foreskin serves no natural sexual function.

I disagree.  And I have one.
Logged

Orthodox only because of God and His Russians.
Punch
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Body of Christ
Posts: 5,098



« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2009, 10:41:21 PM »


All I will point out on this topic is that we celebrate the Circumcision of Christ on January 1 (or 14 depending on your calendar).

-Nick

...

How does that connect to this topic?



Christ was Circumcised, therefore it is perfectly acceptable to immitate him and be circumcised, I'm sorry you couldn't connect the dots.....

-Nick

Christ intended to fulfill the Law.  We do not have that obligation.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 10:41:59 PM by Punch » Logged

Orthodox only because of God and His Russians.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2009, 10:56:40 PM »

Quote
In my opinion, there is no theological or medical reason to do so. Why cause an infant such unnecessary pain? And why deprive him of part of the body with which God created him?

Ditto. Baby boys should not be subject to a routine cosmetic surgery.

Oh? Why not?

Causing great pain to an infant, mutilating them, destroying a section of their nervous system, and leaving them lacking in a natural sexual function for the rest of their lives, for no reason of equivalent value, is simply ridiculous.

Great pain?  Ever see one? Mutilating, that's a loaded term.  The nervous system myth is just that, and the foreskin serves no natural sexual function.

I disagree.  And I have one.

That's nice. Thanks for sharing.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
admiralnick
Cardinal, Editor for Photogalleries
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,880


« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2009, 11:10:55 AM »


All I will point out on this topic is that we celebrate the Circumcision of Christ on January 1 (or 14 depending on your calendar).

-Nick

...

How does that connect to this topic?



Christ was Circumcised, therefore it is perfectly acceptable to immitate him and be circumcised, I'm sorry you couldn't connect the dots.....

-Nick

Christ intended to fulfill the Law.  We do not have that obligation.

You're missing the point here. It wasn't to say that we are required to immitate him I said, "It is perfectly acceptable to immitate him and be circumcised". Its implying that there is precedent for circumcising a child, not saying its the correct decision, just showing that there is a precedent for it.

-Nick
Logged

The ORIGINAL: "NULL"
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2009, 11:27:03 AM »

The Divine Liturgy of our Ethiopian Orthodox Church says, "Let us not be circumcised like the Jews, for He who has fulfilled the Law has already come." But interestingly, circumcision is still widely practiced by most Ethiopian Orthodox Christians. There are many Judaic customs to which Ethiopian Orthodox Christians still adhere, such as circumcision and not eating pork. But I did not have my two sons circumcised, and I would not do so if I were to have another son. In my opinion, there is no theological or medical reason to do so. Why cause an infant such unnecessary pain? And why deprive him of part of the body with which God created him? Also, I think circumcision is unfortunately a profiteering racket of the medical community. When both of my sons were born, the people at the hospital just assumed that I wanted to have my sons circumcised. I had to be very adamant about telling them "NO! I do NOT want my sons circumcised!"

But I certainly don't pass judgment on those who practice circumcision, especially my Ethiopian brethren. I'm just offering you my humble opinion.

I remember an Ethiopian priest saying that it was acceptable as a cultural practice, but only if it was done before Baptism, lest it be seen as a denial of Christ's fulfillment of the Law and what St. Paul says about the circumcision of the heart.
Logged
sodr2
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 121


القديس الانبا رويس


« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2009, 11:40:23 AM »

YES! A thread on circumcision, oh how lovely.

Well, I'm against it...

If health's a reason to cut boys, then it's a better reason to cut girls... OH WAIT! That's illegal, how sexist of the legal system!

You say Jesus was circumcised? Well Jesus also offered sacrifices in the temple, should we do the same? I don't think so. We are the creation of God, we shouldn't mutilate our children's genitals.

20 000 out of 24 000 nerve endings... gone... and for what? Oh, and if any mother wishes to circumcise her child, SHE should be willing to get circumcised and see how SHE likes getting her genitals mutilated.

Forgive me if I may come off a little strong, but this issue gets me frustrated...
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 11:52:22 AM by sodr2 » Logged

"Happiness depends on the relationship between man and God." Pope Shenouda III
admiralnick
Cardinal, Editor for Photogalleries
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,880


« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2009, 12:45:42 PM »

YES! A thread on circumcision, oh how lovely.

Well, I'm against it...

If health's a reason to cut boys, then it's a better reason to cut girls... OH WAIT! That's illegal, how sexist of the legal system!

You say Jesus was circumcised? Well Jesus also offered sacrifices in the temple, should we do the same? I don't think so. We are the creation of God, we shouldn't mutilate our children's genitals.

20 000 out of 24 000 nerve endings... gone... and for what? Oh, and if any mother wishes to circumcise her child, SHE should be willing to get circumcised and see how SHE likes getting her genitals mutilated.

Forgive me if I may come off a little strong, but this issue gets me frustrated...

Why would we sacrifice anything in the temple when the ultimate sacrifice has already been made on our behalf? The fact that Jesus offered sacrifices in the temple and we do not doesn't have any relevence to whether or not a child should be circumcised. Doesn't Paul Circumcise Timothy in Acts 16:3?

The whole point in this thread and the idea that Cleveland points out is: If you want to be circumcised, you can be circumcised, if you don't want to be circumcised, you don't get circumcised. End of story. People who are vehemently one way or the other are kinda creepy, especially those who are so profusely against it.

-Nick
Logged

The ORIGINAL: "NULL"
sodr2
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 121


القديس الانبا رويس


« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2009, 01:47:56 PM »

Why would we sacrifice anything in the temple when the ultimate sacrifice has already been made on our behalf? The fact that Jesus offered sacrifices in the temple and we do not doesn't have any relevence to whether or not a child should be circumcised. Doesn't Paul Circumcise Timothy in Acts 16:3?

The whole point in this thread and the idea that Cleveland points out is: If you want to be circumcised, you can be circumcised, if you don't want to be circumcised, you don't get circumcised. End of story. People who are vehemently one way or the other are kinda creepy, especially those who are so profusely against it.

-Nick

Well then, you might as well be calling the Coptic church creeps since it's customary! And it's the parent's decision, not the child's, so how can you say, "If you want to be circumcised, you can be circumcised, if you don't want to be circumcised"?? That makes no sense. Also, if I'm against female circumcision, am I a creep?? If I was for it, I'm sure everyone would be calling me a creep. How can you call me a creep for being against circumcision man, that's offensive.

If I'm against torturing others, am I a creep??

What I meant to say about offering sacrifices, is that Jesus did it because He was a Jew, same with circumcision, and since we are Christians, there is no point to it. It should be illegal like it is with female circumcision because it is barbaric torture.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 01:51:47 PM by sodr2 » Logged

"Happiness depends on the relationship between man and God." Pope Shenouda III
Tags: circumcision FGM 
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.147 seconds with 71 queries.