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« on: September 06, 2009, 07:32:17 PM »

How would one go about starting a western rite mission?
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« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2009, 09:37:03 PM »


Altar Server,

First of all, you say your jurisdiction is OCA and the OCA has no western rite vicariate attached to it unlike the Antiochians who do.  I'm not sure what the formal petition process is to start a mission; I'm sure you'd need a priest willing to come on board.  Where are you in the Midwest? 

May I ask why you do not wish to celebrate according to the Eastern Rite?  I'm not saying anything or implying anything derogatory about the Western Rite, but here are some things for you to consider:  Even in the Antiochian Archdiocese in America, it is very, very hard to start up and maintain a western rite parish.  It just is.  A lot of western rite parishes are down in numbers from where they started with a lot of those people switching over to eastern rite churches.  Also, a lot of the Western rite priests, if not all, are former Episcopalians or Lutherans and unless you can bring over a priest from one of those two traditions, you may be searching for one in vain. There are not many western rite priests being trained in the seminaries simply because the seminaries in America are under the OCA and the GOA both of which do not have western rite vicariates.  THat is not to say that western rite priests receive no formal schooling in western rite liturgics, but the opportunities are rare.  Of course, I could be wrong, but these are the things that I have heard over the years.

Bishop BASIL has often called St. Benedict of Nursia Western Rite Orthodox Church as the model western rite church.  You can visit the website here:  http://www.st-benedict.org/  . the information which I have told you was what my former girlfriend, daughter of an Orthodox deacon at this church, has told me.  Whether it is still the case, I'm not sure, but be mindful of the difficulties.

Jurisidiction is another thing you're going to have to consider.  If you want a Western Rite through the Antiochians, I think that there is some expected courtesy between the respective hierarchs of a region about what is going on.  So, BIshop MARK, Bishop JOB, Met. CHRISTOPHER and the Greek hierarch (don't know who he is) would have to be made aware.

I'm not trying to undercut you; I just want you to be mindful of these things.
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2009, 10:15:21 PM »


Altar Server,

First of all, you say your jurisdiction is OCA and the OCA has no western rite vicariate attached to it unlike the Antiochians who do.  I'm not sure what the formal petition process is to start a mission; I'm sure you'd need a priest willing to come on board.  Where are you in the Midwest? 

May I ask why you do not wish to celebrate according to the Eastern Rite?  I'm not saying anything or implying anything derogatory about the Western Rite, but here are some things for you to consider:  Even in the Antiochian Archdiocese in America, it is very, very hard to start up and maintain a western rite parish.  It just is.  A lot of western rite parishes are down in numbers from where they started with a lot of those people switching over to eastern rite churches.  Also, a lot of the Western rite priests, if not all, are former Episcopalians or Lutherans and unless you can bring over a priest from one of those two traditions, you may be searching for one in vain. There are not many western rite priests being trained in the seminaries simply because the seminaries in America are under the OCA and the GOA both of which do not have western rite vicariates.  THat is not to say that western rite priests receive no formal schooling in western rite liturgics, but the opportunities are rare.  Of course, I could be wrong, but these are the things that I have heard over the years.

Bishop BASIL has often called St. Benedict of Nursia Western Rite Orthodox Church as the model western rite church.  You can visit the website here:  http://www.st-benedict.org/  . the information which I have told you was what my former girlfriend, daughter of an Orthodox deacon at this church, has told me.  Whether it is still the case, I'm not sure, but be mindful of the difficulties.

Jurisidiction is another thing you're going to have to consider.  If you want a Western Rite through the Antiochians, I think that there is some expected courtesy between the respective hierarchs of a region about what is going on.  So, BIshop MARK, Bishop JOB, Met. CHRISTOPHER and the Greek hierarch (don't know who he is) would have to be made aware.

I'm not trying to undercut you; I just want you to be mindful of these things.

I'd contact Fr. Fenton at Holy Incarnation.

btw, Bishop Job is very hostile to the idea of WRO.  Met. Jonah is not, nor is Bishop Nathaniel, the Romanian OCA bishop of Detroit.

I am Eastern, but support the WRO.  PM me if you want. Btw, I'm in Chicago.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 10:16:08 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2009, 10:25:41 PM »

^Again, considering the jurisdicitonal overlap, I think Bishop JOB would not appreciate Bishop MARK establishing a western rite parish in their territory, especially if MARK did not consult him.
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 11:15:13 PM »

^Again, considering the jurisdicitonal overlap, I think Bishop JOB would not appreciate Bishop MARK establishing a western rite parish in their territory, especially if MARK did not consult him.

What overlap?  Bp. Job has made it quite clear he is against the WRO.  He has made it clear that he is retiring.

Whatever overlap exists already exists. I live in Chicago and Bp. Mark is our bishop.  And I think that there is already at least three WRO in the states in Bp. Job's diocese.
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2009, 09:31:41 AM »

On one of the western rite Orthodox blogs, it goes through a very detailed process on how one should go about trying to start a western rite mission. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the link on the site because I don't know the forum rules (Moderators would this be okay, and what exactly are the forum rules on posting links to websites?), but it provides who to contact and how to get it started and everything. I'm not sure if you already did this, but I'd check the Antiochian website to make sure there are no western rite parishes near you and I would also check other western rite parish websites because sometimes they'll list where a mission or western rite community is that isn't on the Antiochian website yet. But I guess if you contact the western rite vicar general (pm me if you want that link which shows how to get in contact with him), he could tell you where the closest one to you is.
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2009, 09:58:39 AM »

On one of the western rite Orthodox blogs, it goes through a very detailed process on how one should go about trying to start a western rite mission. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the link on the site because I don't know the forum rules (Moderators would this be okay, and what exactly are the forum rules on posting links to websites?)

Since the blog is not yours, and it is appropriate to the topic, it is permissible to post the link. Please provide a description of the link when you post it so people are aware of were you are sending them.

-Arimethea
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 09:59:25 AM by arimethea » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2009, 11:11:14 AM »

I have nothing aginst the eastern rite but I love the beauty that is the simplicity of the western rite. I figured I would have to contact the Antiochians. The only reason I attend a OCA Parish is I'm in the process of converting and thats the parish I first experienced orthodoxy I live in Kansas City MO. btw
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2009, 12:15:58 PM »

I have nothing aginst the eastern rite but I love the beauty that is the simplicity of the western rite. I figured I would have to contact the Antiochians. The only reason I attend a OCA Parish is I'm in the process of converting and thats the parish I first experienced orthodoxy I live in Kansas City MO. btw

You are three hours from a WRO parish and a mission, the former St. Vincent in Omaha
http://www.stvincentchurch.org/

and St. Michael's mission in Wichita
http://www.stgregoryoc.org/

I know that the parish in Omaha was St. Tikhon DL, but the priest Gregorian.

I have to say, the WRO has an uphill struggle on various fronts, but doesn't everything worthwhile?

Btw, does the priest catechizing you know that you are interested in WRO?  Does it matter to him?  I should say that it shouldn't, as once you are Orthodox, you may transfer to any canonical parish you want (and the Antiochian and now ROCOR WRO are fully canonical, something even its severest critics admit), but it might be wise to assess that.

Btw, a godson of mine is at St. Vincent. He and his wife and son had been Eastern Rite, at the OCA Chicago cathedral. But when they went to Omaha, the "Eastern" Church was Western wannabe (Davinic Last Supper, etc.) that they said "if we are going to be Western, we might as well be the real thing."

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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2009, 03:41:40 PM »

If you can make it to Canada, and if 25 persons have not already signed up:
Anglicans AWAKE!

A Day of Recollection

for Anglicans Seeking

Western-Rite Orthodoxy

Saturday, 26 September 2009

Our Lady of Glastonbury

Orthodox Church

390 Cannon Street East

Hamilton, ON  L8L 2C4
http://www.christminster.org/

The link has the phone number and more information.
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2009, 08:23:02 PM »

No the preist catechizing me dosen't know as of yet it's actually a very recent development but I plan to talk to him in a few weeks Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2009, 11:11:31 AM »

On one of the western rite Orthodox blogs, it goes through a very detailed process on how one should go about trying to start a western rite mission. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the link on the site because I don't know the forum rules (Moderators would this be okay, and what exactly are the forum rules on posting links to websites?)

Since the blog is not yours, and it is appropriate to the topic, it is permissible to post the link. Please provide a description of the link when you post it so people are aware of were you are sending them.

-Arimethea


Well I just re-read the article that I was going to post and it seems to be more geared for if a non-Orthodox priest/pastor is wanting to take his parish to the western rite of Orthodoxy. But it still has useful information so here's the link:
http://westernorthodox.blogspot.com/2009/01/practical-tips-for-move-to-western.html
This website is a blog devoted to the western rite with news and articles included. And if you look on the left side of the website it says,

 "Want to Start a Western Rite Mission?

If you are interested in becoming part of the Western Rite, click here for a WRV Parish Directory. If there is not a Western Rite Orthodox parish in your area, and you'd like to change that, click here." If you click where it says "click here", it'll bring up an email address where I guess you can email and place a concern about forming a mission. And by the way, I wouldn't use the website's link to the WRV Parish Directory because it is outdated. Instead, use the one on the Antiochian website for their directory. But remember that ROCOR and I think the Romanian jurisdictions have some western rite parishes. Here's one bi-ritual ROCOR one in Oklahoma:
http://www.russianorthodoxoklahoma.org/
So maybe if you ask around their could be a western rite parish that isn't Antiochian close to you or maybe a parish that might want to become a bi-ritual parish.
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2009, 11:28:10 AM »

No the preist catechizing me dosen't know as of yet it's actually a very recent development but I plan to talk to him in a few weeks Smiley

Are you, by chance, attending Holy Trinity in Overland Park?  That's right next door to my hometown.
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2009, 07:59:07 AM »

yes I am:)
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2009, 04:27:19 PM »

Or perhaps you could move to Finland, convince Finnish bishops about existence and legitimacy of the WRO and start a Benedictine monastery with me in the wilderness of Karelia. Tongue
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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2009, 04:43:11 PM »

Or perhaps you could move to Finland, convince Finnish bishops about existence and legitimacy of the WRO and start a Benedictine monastery with me in the wilderness of Karelia. Tongue

When I was in the Upper Peninsula (Michigan) I thought, what a nice place for a monastery, preferably Finnish Orthodox.
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2009, 03:09:01 AM »

Or perhaps you could move to Finland, convince Finnish bishops about existence and legitimacy of the WRO and start a Benedictine monastery with me in the wilderness of Karelia. Tongue

Or you can go to Poland and start a mission in Warsaw. DL of St. Gregory's text is already acceptep but noone uses it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 03:09:12 AM by mike » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2009, 09:33:14 AM »

Clergy wanting information on beginning a new Western Rite Parish/Mission in the AOCNA should contact Bishop BASIL (Essey) of Wichita and the Midwest of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America.  He is the assigned Archepiscopal Vicar for the Western Rite. The Bishop of each Diocese is responsible for the WR missions and parishes of his Diocese, they are responsible for ordained priests and WR clergy who are members of the local diocese deaneries. The Rev. John W. Fenton is Assistant to the Vicar General  his email is frfenton @ holyincarnation.org.

If you are a layman interested in starting a mission group, The Rev. John W. Fenton is Assistant to the Vicar General  his email is frfenton @ holyincarnation.org. would be a good place to start in discussing how it is done. he will likely put you incomaptact with the appropriate bishop to establish a mission station or full mission if there are others like you in the area.

Thomas

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« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 10:58:10 AM by arimethea » Logged

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