OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 16, 2014, 07:14:24 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags CHAT Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Extremism  (Read 4750 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
carpo-rusyn
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 383



« on: November 30, 2003, 10:15:48 AM »

Hello all,

I don't know quite how to ask this but here goes.  What do you think accounts for people to run to the extremes in their faith life.  This is something that we have in both east and west.  We have people who are RCs who become RC then immeadiately head towards outfits like SSPX, SSPV or CMRI.  A Prot friend of mine (I think it's nice to have a few Prot friends) says that he sees people in his church (Presbyterianism) who come to Jesus enter the church then head right off to the most radical fundamentalist.  You guys seem to have people who become EO in OCA or ACROD or ROCOR then head right off to the Old Calendarists or others.

This is just a general question not an attack on anyone and I'm certainly not trolling for converts to RCC (we've got enough, so many we don't know where to put them).  It seems to be a phemenon that both East and West share in common.  It also tends to affect relations between us.  

Carpo-Rusyn
Logged
the slave
intolerant of intolerance
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Catholic
Jurisdiction: UGCC
Posts: 810



« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2003, 10:48:07 AM »

Well - yes - ummm - I know what you mean.

I was given a warning when I converted to the RCC that I should be careful - many converts seem to be somewhat unsettled and carry on looking for what they perceive to be the IDEAL in their newly chosen faith. They seem to go overboard in trying to make up for lost time, as they see it.  I wonder also if it is often a case that they in fact despise what they have been before and wish to demonstrate how their life has been turned round.

At the same time  they forget that man is not perfect and he never made anything that is perfect either. No matter how we struggle and strive we will fall . But when most of us pick ourselves up again we continue from where we left off so-to-speak. This very intense type of convert however,after they have fallen, seem to push themselves even harder to try and make up for their humanity and weakness - they seem to deny that they are weak.

I have to admit that I do get very exasperated by those who are still canonically in one Church and are in the process of changing ,who are then determined to to show how wonderful their new ' choice ' is and try and take everyone else there with them, by thrusting this new 'choice' down their throats all the time.

Honey attracts , the constant drip wears the stone away , but the constant bashing over the head repels folk.
Logged

"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch
carpo-rusyn
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 383



« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2003, 11:09:51 AM »

Thanks.  That's what I was trying to put into words.  The old expression (at least in the RCC) for people who were trying so hard is "More Catholic than the Pope".  Do you think the EO have a similar expression "More Orthodox than the Patriarch"?

CR
Logged
the slave
intolerant of intolerance
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Catholic
Jurisdiction: UGCC
Posts: 810



« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2003, 11:24:34 AM »

Now I haven't a clue about that - more Orthodox than etc etc

Sometimes this agressively defensive attitude comes over as " I know I'm right and therefore I'm going to make you see that it's right too, whether you like it or not "

Sadly this is where lack of respect for others comes in and becomes intolerance for another person's beliefs.
Logged

"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch
Innocent
No longer posting on this site
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 440

St. Innocent of Alaska


« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2003, 12:57:08 PM »

I agree with what was said. I think it is a wanting to belong to the 'right" group. Many people come into Church really for the wrong reasons. They are searching not for God perfection but man perfection. In this search they are easily led astray. You look at some extreme Orthodox groups and you can see almost their entire makeup (of converts that is) are from the extremist RC groups. They want to be one of the last few on the planet that are "right". Its very sad to see.

I wonder sometimes if these extremists were garbed by moslems first if they would turn into the next John Walker Lynn.
Logged
carpo-rusyn
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 383



« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2003, 01:02:51 PM »

Again I agree.  The other thing is that I find when talking to someone who wants to belong to the "right" group they hardly ever mention prayer.  Yet another thing is that they seem to see conspiracies (as I'm sure some probably see this posting as a conspiracy) everywhere and they seem to credit the evil one with more power than he has.

Carpo-Rusyn
Logged
Innocent
No longer posting on this site
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 440

St. Innocent of Alaska


« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2003, 01:05:27 PM »

Again I agree.  The other thing is that I find when talking to someone who wants to belong to the "right" group they hardly ever mention prayer.  Yet another thing is that they seem to see conspiracies (as I'm sure some probably see this posting as a conspiracy) everywhere and they seem to credit the evil one with more power than he has.

Carpo-Rusyn

I see black helicopters outside my window!   Shocked
Logged
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2003, 03:22:09 PM »

Extremist remind me of the Screwtape letters.  Every time I bump into one ( and I bump into them all the time in my line of work and in my religious walk ) I remember that the enemy would have us go to extremes.  I say - lets look for what we have in common, what we share rather than what divides us.  I’m not saying we should compromise the truth, only that we should focus together on Christ rather focus on differences.
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
carpo-rusyn
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 383



« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2003, 06:11:36 PM »

Vicki

[The Evil One has a great deal of power, and one of his powers is the power to turn the good intentions and zeal of converts and cradle Orthodox and other faithful into antagonism and schism through pride by creating this idealism]

I think we sort of agree here.  I don't know that I'd say the evil one (lower case please he's not worth capital letters) has a great deal of power.  I'd say he has power but not a great deal.  God on the other hand.....well it goes without saying he has a great great deal of power, actually let's just say unlimited power.

[As Orthodox we are told to be tolerant of the failings of others and critical of ..................]

As RCs we are taught all this too.  We do have to be on guard against the evil one but always have to remember that God is the All Powerful.

Carpo-Rusyn
Logged
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2003, 07:06:10 PM »

Ideals are good.  Idealism is dangerous.
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
Mexican
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria
Posts: 489


« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2003, 08:04:02 PM »

It's curious that this situation, going to the extreme groups such as the CMRI or the Old Calendarists, is common among Protestant people who convert to Apostolic Christianity.

Do you have any idea about why it's so common?
Logged
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2003, 08:38:03 PM »

Mexican: it’s the pendulum effect.  Forces act on the pendulum so as to pull it out of center, eventually, however, the limit of the forces is reached sooner or later usually caused by the counter force pulling the pendulum in the other direction - the problem is, once the pendulum starts swinging, it is difficult to bring it to rest again without either an effort on both sides to bring the pendulum to a halt or an outside force acting upon the pendulum so as to negate the other forces.  So the pendulum begins swinging -  it swings one way then the other.  Problem is, when to opposing beliefs are the forces causing the pendulum to swing, there must always be an outside force which causes the pendulum to stop swinging.  Rarely do the 2 factions come to terms and bring the pendulum to a halt together.  Rather, they both act more and more on the pendulum trying to pull it over are recenter it above their own heads.  AM I making sense?
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2003, 11:42:22 PM »

vicki: Smiley Welp glad I did something right!!
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2003, 12:10:50 AM »

vicki: right after the primary elections Smiley I wanna be able to vote for sharpton!! Grin
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2003, 12:28:51 AM »

lol.  A vote for AL sharpton is a vote for president Bush!! Grin
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2003, 12:54:37 AM »

maybe its his hair! Grin maybe its when he opens his mouth he's almost guaranteed to say something STUPID who knows Grin
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
prodromos
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,463

Sydney, Australia


« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2003, 04:01:15 AM »

IDo you have any idea about why it's so common?

Lack of love for God?

John.
Logged
Linus7
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,780



« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2003, 10:52:46 AM »

IDo you have any idea about why it's so common?

Lack of love for God?

John.

That, and perhaps an inability to see God in others.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2003, 10:53:13 AM by Linus7 » Logged

The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,322



« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2003, 02:24:13 PM »

To go pick up where I left off in the other thread:

I think it depends a lot on the sort of forces driving people about.

The Episcopal Church used to pick up a lot of people with grievances against the RC Church. (They still do, I suppose.) The varieties of grievance need not be gone into here except to note/admit that perhaps they tend to involve "liberalizations", which is to say, they reject legal decisions within the RC church.

But even so, the concept of being radically Anglican is hard to wrap one's mind around. I can conceive of it, but it lacks the, shall we say, temper of the Jurisdiction-That-Cannot-Be-Named. Or various fundamentalist groups, for that matter.

But it is the history of those fundamentalists that provides the key to understanding. Fundamentalism is specifically and deliberately reactionary, and its reaction was first to the early stirrings of critical theology and second to the growing force of "scientific" atheism. Its solution was to declare where they were theologically at the time to be an immutable point-- but more important, they were angry, and especially concerned with fighting the threat of these innovations/fallacies.

Does this sound much like believers converting to Orthodoxy because they are opposed to what they find in their own churches? Well, it should. If one is looking for an immovable point, what better than the church "founded in 33 AD and not changed since"? Orthodoxy looks uncontaminated and really, really old, so what better place to go and be angry at one's old church?

Except there's a snag. Real churches aren't unchanged. Real churches have to react to the real world, and Orthodox churches are patently caught up in this issue. So this angry convert goes to an Antiochian church, and Gasp! they've made concessions! Eventually they wash up in a ROCOR parish (if there's one handy) and Gasp Again! they're showing signs of making concessions to the MP! So the Angry Convert shows up at ROAC or some other splinter that is obsessed with its own anger with the rest of Orthodoxy, and nestles right in for a time.

But only for a time, because by now the A.C. is on a quest for Radical Purity, disregarding the one thing that everyone knows: you can't get really radical purity by affiliation. So the Angry Convert is always angry, and always directs his anger against his own church in the end, and becomes more and more extreme.
Logged
Oblio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 454

The Pointless One !


WWW
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2003, 02:58:06 PM »

The latent mathematician in me asks what is the limit as Delta J-->0 where Delta J is the change in Jurisdictions

Smiley
Logged
Robert
"Amazing"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,437



« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2003, 03:15:11 PM »

D[v](F) = limit(delta, j = 0);

We can find directional derivatives of jurisdictional changes!!!

And then put them into a matrix:

D[v](f) = <<D[1](f) | D[2](f) | D[3](f) | D[4](f) >, <D[1](g) |D[2](g)| D[2](g) |D[2](g)> , <D[1](h) | D[2](h) | D[3](h) | D[4](h)> , <D[1](k) |D[2](k) | D[3](k)|D[4](k)> > * <<a, b, c, d>>;

VECTORS RULE

Bobby
Logged
Oblio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 454

The Pointless One !


WWW
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2003, 03:16:30 PM »

Smiley
Logged
Robert
"Amazing"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,437



« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2003, 03:18:10 PM »

Thanks to Mor Ephrem...
we have come up with a name!

Bobby's Theorum for Jurisdictional Tracking
« Last Edit: December 01, 2003, 03:18:23 PM by Mr. Turkey » Logged
David
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of the South)
Posts: 1,952


Retired GM


WWW
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2003, 03:57:10 PM »

You need to write that up for all of us mathematical laymen and put it on the texts page. Smiley
Logged

"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim
MsGuided
Pharmakolytria
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 478


St. Anastasia


« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2003, 04:25:03 PM »

Bobby

We'll need to have a thesis from you about that theorem with significant proof of its "infallibility" if I may use the term loosely  Wink

Apparently thats how its done in the Math PhD world
Logged

"Forgive me that great love leads me to talking nonsense." Barsanuphius
PhosZoe
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 346

One foot in the cradle


« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2003, 05:19:06 PM »

Extremism, it's going to happen no matter what. We are human and therefore not perfect. As someone else said, these people are looking for the "right" way. They (extremists) exist and I have learned to pray and not react.  I have learned that extremists LOVE a good verbal rumble.  

I have had my own encounters with extremists. Once while visiting an all convert parish in Indianapolis, I was taken aside by a parishioner who INSISTED that I wear a babushka. Out of politeness, I covered my head. She also commented on what I was wearing (Who knew a sweater and dress slacks could be sooo offensive?) While I did not come to orthodoxy until I was an adult, I'm serbian and spent lots of time in orthodox churches and never was it required that I cover my head nor did I ever see anyone ( with the exception the babas) cover their head. I found the experience to be bewildering and thier behavior cultish.  As a modern woman with a college education and a career I have no desire to start dressing like a Ukrainian peasant  from the 19th century.  I also found out that this particular parish was formerly Holy order of Mans. Sort of explains the cultish behavior and the intolerance of those that are "outside" thier group.


Logged
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,345


« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2003, 05:34:33 PM »

I have had my own encounters with extremists. Once while visiting an all convert parish in Indianapolis, I was taken aside by a parishioner who INSISTED that I wear a babushka. Out of politeness, I covered my head. She also commented on what I was wearing (Who knew a sweater and dress slacks could be sooo offensive?) While I did not come to orthodoxy until I was an adult, I'm serbian and spent lots of time in orthodox churches and never was it required that I cover my head nor did I ever see anyone ( with the exception the babas) cover their head. I found the experience to be bewildering and thier behavior cultish.  As a modern woman with a college education and a career I have no desire to start dressing like a Ukrainian peasant  from the 19th century.  I also found out that this particular parish was formerly Holy order of Mans. Sort of explains the cultish behavior and the intolerance of those that are "outside" thier group.

Ditto how I feel (but I'm a guy).  The (former HoM) parish in our town is like that, except someone would politely (and probably more tactfully) supply you with a scarf.  A lot of those people need to step back into reality.  I think it will take those parishes a few years to relax a little.  There are some of those folk in the OCA near me as well that have adjusted better than the (Bulgarian) parish nearby (but that's another story).
Logged
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,322



« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2003, 05:36:49 PM »

I have had my own encounters with extremists. Once while visiting an all convert parish in Indianapolis, I was taken aside by a parishioner who INSISTED that I wear a babushka. Out of politeness, I covered my head. She also commented on what I was wearing (Who knew a sweater and dress slacks could be sooo offensive?)

This can be cured. Find the local AME church and have the ladies there give you some lessons in dressing to destroy. Make sure you end up with a hat that Hermione Gingold could have worn in The Music Man.
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong." - Carl Kraeff
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,995


Lion of Judah, Lion of Arabs, Lion of Everyone


WWW
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2003, 05:36:58 PM »

I actually called it the Quick Theorem for Jurisdictional Tracking, but looking at it, it doesn't look quick at all.
Logged

"Best of all, Mor Ephrem won't trap you into having his baby." - dzheremi

"Mor Ephrim will not be allowed in(to the getes of heaven) because God doesnt know him." - Cackles

"You are consistently one of the cruelest posters on this forum." - William
amhalaba
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 143


St. Michael, defend us in the midst of battle.


« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2003, 05:43:14 PM »

I'm just finishing "Not of This World", and I haven't read anything else about or by Fr Seraphim Rose, although I know he is somewhat controversial, but it seems he has a lot of very sensible things to say about the difference between truly seeking the spirit and heart of Orthodoxy, and following the letter of the law to the extreme at the expense of Christian love...

Anyway, he spoke to me, since I think I have a pretty heavy tendency to rely on the law, to try to align myself as justifiably "right" in times of doubt, stress or threat, rather than disengaging and responding from the heart through prayer and reliance on our Lord...

Thanks for discussing this topic...
Logged

"To live is to change, and to become perfect is to change often." - John Henry Neumann
David
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of the South)
Posts: 1,952


Retired GM


WWW
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2003, 07:11:21 PM »

Amhalaba,

Good to see you online again...it's been a while.  You should post more often. Smiley
Logged

"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim
katherine 2001
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 868


Eastern Orthodox Church--Established in 33 A.D.


« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2003, 07:26:00 PM »

I know what you are talking about.  I've read that some churches will even give people robes to wear if they are not dressed "properly".  I pointed out that some people may be poor and not be able to afford "proper" clothes.  Then we humiliate them  by making them put on a robe?  I went to a fundamentalist Baptist church for a few years, and they were even willing to let one lady wear pants to church on Sunday nights and Wednesday nights, as her husband was out of work and they had two small children.  It was taking all their money to provide the absolute necessities.  They didn't have enough money to buy dresses for her.  I know that some people will say that you can get clothes at Goodwill or the Salvation Army for a few dollars, but sometimes even $2 or $3 is more than you have.  So, this is a topic that I am really sensitive about.  Should we welcome these people to church because God would like them to come even if they are not dressed "properly" or should we make them wear robes so that they don't offend us?

I do usually wear a dress to liturgy, unless it is extremely cold.  If it is below 0, I will wear pants to keep my legs warm.  I do wear pants to Vespers a lot of times, but my priest has no problems with it.  The fact is that it is more than possible that the woman wearing pants has more real humility than the one that wears a floor-length skirt or dress and a headcovering.  Now, of course, she may have true humility too.  However, sometimes following all the outer signs of piety cause a real problem with pride.  I have discovered that in myself in the 3 years I've been Orthodox.

Logged
TonyS
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 705


« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2003, 08:37:53 PM »

You guys seem to have people who become EO in OCA or ACROD or ROCOR then head right off to the Old Calendarists or others.

ROCOR is a destination for many.  People do leave the OCA and ACROD for ROCOR.  I think it is not helpful to use the grouping you have.  I am sure it has been dealt with elsewhere but you seem to be using "Old Calendarists" more broadly than merely applied to someone who follows the Old Calendar (as about 1/2 of ACROD parishes do).
Logged

Tómame como al tequila, de un golpe y sin pensarlo. - Ricardo Arjona

I'd be a fool to surrender when I know I can be a contender
and if everbody's a sinner then everybody can be a winner
...
I'll see you when yo
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2003, 08:41:07 PM »

*sigh* it's not whats on your back but what's in your heart that matters.
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
amhalaba
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 143


St. Michael, defend us in the midst of battle.


« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2003, 09:02:17 PM »

You should post more often. Smiley

I lurk a lot! And the more I read (here and books), the more ignorant I find myself to be!

Thanks for the site. I learn a lot here about Orthodoxy (and much of it good  Wink!).
Logged

"To live is to change, and to become perfect is to change often." - John Henry Neumann
amhalaba
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 143


St. Michael, defend us in the midst of battle.


« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2003, 09:18:20 PM »

I remember reading a thread here last summer lamenting the lack of modesty and respect in dress by church-goers these days, and I whole-heartedly agreed.

But a friend of mine recently visited her daughter and her daughter's fiancee in Chicago. The daughter and this young man both went through difficult times in their teens... both struggled with mental illness, including drugs, and were "goths" when they met. But they are now, in their early 20's, coming around strongly, thanks be to God! They are going to be married, and both are very interested in the Catholic or Eastern Catholic Church (which is where my devout friend brought her daughter up).

During the visit, they all went to visit the National Shrine of St Terese, a long anticipated pilgrimage for my friend. While at mass, someone came up to the fiancee, slapped him on the back of the head, and hissed at him to remove his hat.

It was a shock for my friend... she would never have treated anyone that way, but she may quietly have judged someone similarly. And now she found herself so angry that he would have a negative experience during his first fledgling steps into a church.

It's a good thing to remember... you never know where people are coming from when we judge them. The journey just to enter this church was a long and even tortuous one for this young man. We must always be careful about welcoming newcomers, whatever they look like.

Logged

"To live is to change, and to become perfect is to change often." - John Henry Neumann
carpo-rusyn
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 383



« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2003, 09:36:47 PM »

Tony

My old ACROD parish followed the old calendar and I intended no disrespect to those who use that calendar. When I referred to Old Calendarists I meant that as more of a party label.

I stand by grouping OCA, GOA and ROCOR together.  If the reports are to be believed ROCOR and the MP will soon reunite.  True ROCOR has been seen by some as a destination but have found ROCOR not to "hold to the truth" and have left for places like ROAC.

Carpo-Rusyn
Logged
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2003, 11:01:04 PM »

During the visit, they all went to visit the National Shrine of St Terese, a long anticipated pilgrimage for my friend. While at mass, someone came up to the fiancee, slapped him on the back of the head, and hissed at him to remove his hat.



YIKES!! I'm glad we have ushers at our church to greet people at the door, welcome them, answer any questions, help them find a seat, and police the services to prevent disturbances and incidents like what you describe.
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,322



« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2003, 08:41:47 AM »

Clothing is something you enforce on your kids, not on strangers.
Logged
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2003, 09:50:01 AM »

People like to force conformity on others.
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
PhosZoe
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 346

One foot in the cradle


« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2003, 10:54:13 AM »

I have had my own encounters with extremists. Once while visiting an all convert parish in Indianapolis, I was taken aside by a parishioner who INSISTED that I wear a babushka. Out of politeness, I covered my head. She also commented on what I was wearing (Who knew a sweater and dress slacks could be sooo offensive?)

This can be cured. Find the local AME church and have the ladies there give you some lessons in dressing to destroy. Make sure you end up with a hat that Hermione Gingold could have worn in The Music Man.


LOL I'm 5'9, I'm tall and not to mention clumsy. I would be dangerous in a hat like that!

AME- I assume you mean Armenian?
Logged
Br. Max, OFC
Target of choice
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,418


ECCE HOMO


« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2003, 10:57:13 AM »

AME - African Methodist Episcopal
Logged

"Where I live in Manhattan and where I work at ABC, people say 'conservative' the way people say 'child molester.' Leftist thinking is just the culture that I live in and the culture the reporters who populate the mainstream media
The Caffeinator
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 433



« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2003, 01:21:29 PM »

Thanks for the eye-opening and charitable posts, my fellow Christians.

Touchstone magazine once did an issue called "Pugnacious Converts." I believe you may find it in their archives, if you are unoffended by conservative ecumenism (Touchstone is an ecumenical magazine.)

I myself was once among the most pugnacious of them, but God changes hearts. Smiley Pray for your pugnacious brethren, and if you are pugnacious yourself, pray for us! It is a fine line between triumphalism and indifferentism.
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.129 seconds with 72 queries.