OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 22, 2014, 07:48:47 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Name the saint  (Read 2627 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Robert W
Self-appointed forum herald
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Finland
Posts: 469


Love is no feeling


« on: September 02, 2009, 02:45:37 AM »

I got this icon as a present from my sister. The icon is obviously Coptic and it came with a note calling the icon "Friendship of Christ". The note also said that the saint depicted together with Christ is nameless.



I really do not believe this saint to be nameless or unknown, especially since there is an inscription besides his head. Roll Eyes

Could someone more knowledgeable than me name the saint? ...please?  Grin

« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 02:47:31 AM by Robert W » Logged
Salpy
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Online Online

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,317


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 03:01:42 AM »

I think this icon was used by EA in his recent thread here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,23039.0.html

Hopefully he'll know the identity of the saint.  I'm sure the saint is one of the desert fathers.



You know, the funny thing is that when I saw the title I thought this was going to be one of those threads where someone gives clues about a saint and you have to answer who the saint is.  Like:  "Which saint(s) washed the feet of Christ?"  And then someone gives the answer.  A thread like that would be fun.   Smiley
Logged

"I don't think I've ever eaten anything Armenian I didn't like.  I even drink my non-Armenian coffee out of a St Nersess Seminary coffee mug because it is better that way." --Mor Ephrem
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,144


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 03:29:15 AM »

If memory serves, the saint is Apostle Peter.
Logged
EkhristosAnesti
'I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."' - Psalm 91:2
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Posts: 2,743


Pope St Kyrillos VI


« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 03:54:28 AM »

According to the Coptic inscription, the Saint is St. Mina (the Egyptian / Miracle-Performer)--one of the most popularly venerated martyrs in the Coptic Church today; up there with Sts George, Theodore and Abu Sefein (Philopateer Merkourios).
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 03:56:48 AM by EkhristosAnesti » Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,144


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2009, 04:04:58 AM »

Thanks for that.
Logged
Robert W
Self-appointed forum herald
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Finland
Posts: 469


Love is no feeling


« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2009, 04:49:24 AM »

Thank you EkhristosAnesti for the information.

I am somewhat offended that those who sold this icon to my sister tried to pass off St. Mina as "the unknown friend of Christ".

Thanks again for the information! Grin
Logged
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,605



WWW
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2009, 07:11:57 AM »

My understanding is that is Abbot Menas of the Monastery of St Apollo at Bawit.

According to the reproduction of this image in Coptic Egypt: The Christians of the Nile which I have in my hand.

It could be wrong.

Father Peter
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
Robert W
Self-appointed forum herald
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Finland
Posts: 469


Love is no feeling


« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2009, 08:38:01 AM »

My understanding is that is Abbot Menas of the Monastery of St Apollo at Bawit.

According to the reproduction of this image in Coptic Egypt: The Christians of the Nile which I have in my hand.

It could be wrong.

Father Peter

Mina is also called Menas.

While we shouldn't trust wikipedia with out lives, their article on st Menas includes a picture of this icon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Menas

Can anyone else comment of the identity of the saint?
Logged
EkhristosAnesti
'I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."' - Psalm 91:2
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Posts: 2,743


Pope St Kyrillos VI


« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 10:01:56 AM »

Ah, Fr Peter, that indeed seems to make more sense given that St Mina's name is preceded with 'Apa' which is a monastic title. I simply assumed it was St Mina the Coptic Martyr, mainly because he is really the only known St Mina today amongst Copts. St Mina the Abbot is practically unheard of (does he even have his own entry in the Synaxarion? I'll have to check). It is also quite known that St Mina the Coptic Martyr lived a solitary ascetic life in the desert for some time prior to his martyrdom, so I assumed the 'Apa' title was placing emphasis on this aspect of his life. The word qualifying the actual name is incomprehensible to me. It would certainly shed some light on this matter though. Does your book give a translation of the complete inscription?
Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,605



WWW
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 10:03:07 AM »

No, no other info. It is not really academic.

I tried to understand the text next to St Mina. Is it not comprehensible Coptic?

Father Peter
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,605



WWW
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 10:10:29 AM »

The recent volume...

Coptic Christology in practice: incarnation and divine participation

has this icon on the cover and describes it as...

Icon of Christ accompanying a Coptic monk named Menas.

The volume ... The icon in the life of the church describes it as ..

Christ with Abbot Menas.

The volume ... Jesus: the complete guide describes it as ....

Christ and the Abbot Mena.

So I wonder if it is not indeed Christ with a later Abbot of the Monastery. What tell tale symbols would we expect to see if it were of St Menas the soldier? Do other early icons show the camels, or him as a soldier saint?

Father Peter


Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
EkhristosAnesti
'I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."' - Psalm 91:2
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Posts: 2,743


Pope St Kyrillos VI


« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 10:18:23 AM »

Not as far as my Coptic knowledge is concerned (and my Sahidic has faded dramatically since I took classes on it three years ago, since we don't use it liturgically and I have not had much time to engage in much Sahidic reading).

My first problem is being certain of what the letters are. The first letter preceding his name is clearly pi (which is the "the" introducing the qualification--"Apa Mina the..."), followed by ro; I can't tell if the next letter is theta or eey; next letter is yota; can't tell if next letter is seema or o...Assuming one letter or another for those of which I am not certain, the closest word I can think of is the Sahidic verb roeis, which means, "to be vigilant."
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 10:18:59 AM by EkhristosAnesti » Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus
Robert W
Self-appointed forum herald
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Finland
Posts: 469


Love is no feeling


« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2009, 02:19:51 AM »

Thank you peterfarrington and EkhristosAnesti for helping identify the saint. (And thanks to ialmisry for the PM)

Now comes step two  Grin; where can I find some information about the holy Abbot Menas?

EDIT:

The story is that my sister had been travelling around Europe with her friend from Poland. They where both visiting when my sister gave me the icon. Her Polish friend told me that they have the same icon on one side of the altar painting in her (catholic) church at home. She had also been told that the icon is of "Christ and an unnamed friend".

I would like find some information about the saint to be able to give to the friend of my sister. She is after all looking at this icon every time she goes to church at home. She should not be unaware of who the "friend of Christ" is.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 02:28:07 AM by Robert W » Logged
Robert W
Self-appointed forum herald
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Finland
Posts: 469


Love is no feeling


« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2009, 05:36:16 AM »

..oh, and post information about the Abbot Menas in this thread:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13801.0.html
Logged
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,346


metron ariston


« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2009, 10:12:03 AM »

The inscription reads "Apa Mena, Superior", i.e. the Abbot of the monastery. It's from the monastery of Bawit, founded in the fourth century, but abandoned under the Muslims. Today, it's one of those archeological sites that anyone writing about early Christian art always mentions. It was full of decorations, many of which were taken by the French archeologists who excavated the site. This particular icon is in the Louvre in Paris. At the Louvre, they have an entire room that recreates one of the monastery's churches.
Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,129


Truth, Justice, and the American way!


« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2009, 02:28:35 PM »

I got this icon as a present from my sister. The icon is obviously Coptic and it came with a note calling the icon "Friendship of Christ". The note also said that the saint depicted together with Christ is nameless.



I really do not believe this saint to be nameless or unknown, especially since there is an inscription besides his head. Roll Eyes

Could someone more knowledgeable than me name the saint? ...please?  Grin


Absolutely beautiful. I wonder where one could find a copy of this icon.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
Robert W
Self-appointed forum herald
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Finland
Posts: 469


Love is no feeling


« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2009, 01:39:11 PM »

Absolutely beautiful. I wonder where one could find a copy of this icon.

I believe she bought it while visiting the taize community. It is being marketed as the icon of "the friendship of Christ" by them.
http://www.taize.fr/
Logged
Jonathan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 793


WWW
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2009, 02:20:32 PM »

Ah, Fr Peter, that indeed seems to make more sense given that St Mina's name is preceded with 'Apa' which is a monastic title. I simply assumed it was St Mina the Coptic Martyr, mainly because he is really the only known St Mina today amongst Copts. St Mina the Abbot is practically unheard of (does he even have his own entry in the Synaxarion? I'll have to check). It is also quite known that St Mina the Coptic Martyr lived a solitary ascetic life in the desert for some time prior to his martyrdom, so I assumed the 'Apa' title was placing emphasis on this aspect of his life. The word qualifying the actual name is incomprehensible to me. It would certainly shed some light on this matter though. Does your book give a translation of the complete inscription?

Some people say that this comes from an accidental mixing together of the stories of St. Menas the monk and St. Menas the martyr (or wonder-worker), a confusion because of the shared name. Everything got attributed to one St. Menas, and the other was forgotten...
Logged
Tags: Coptic Oriental Orthodox saints saints icons OO icons Coptic Orthodox Church 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.074 seconds with 46 queries.