Author Topic: A.D. 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State  (Read 1121 times)

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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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A.D. 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State
« on: August 28, 2009, 03:32:09 PM »


I noticed this a while ago at a local bookstore.  I was just wondering if there has been any real Orthodox reaction to this publication?  Freeman asserts that Emperor Theodosius actually issued the following degree prior to the Second Ecumenical Council:

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We authorize followers of this law to assume the title of orthodox Christians; but as for the others since, in our judgment, they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious names of heretics.

After the persecution of the heretics began, the Church scrambled to issue a degree that would conform to the imperial edict, as She could not withstand the power of the emperor.  I haven't read the book yet.  It sounds as if there could be a lot of holes in the author's argument, but it does sound like an interesting book.

As anyone on here read it, and if so, any thoughts?

Offline Pilgrim

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Re: A.D. 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2009, 04:03:00 PM »
I saw the same book. I didn't look through it though. Is this book anti-Orthodox (in the sense that it claims that they destroyed all other true versions of christianity, etc) in aany way?
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: A.D. 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2009, 05:03:47 PM »
I saw the same book. I didn't look through it though. Is this book anti-Orthodox (in the sense that it claims that they destroyed all other true versions of christianity, etc) in aany way?

I believe I've seen words to that effect whether on this forum or simply reading the jacket at my local bookstore.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: A.D. 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2009, 06:30:51 PM »
Yes, it is anti-Orthodox.  But I'm still interested in understanding the perspective.  Truth will remain True either way.  We don't have to be frightened by alternative perspectives.  If what we believe is true, it will withstand all scrutiny.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: A.D. 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2009, 07:37:19 PM »

I saw the same book. I didn't look through it though. Is this book anti-Orthodox (in the sense that it claims that they destroyed all other true versions of christianity, etc) in aany way?

I'm getting tired of seeing books like that all over the place.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: A.D. 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2009, 01:22:49 AM »
I'm getting tired of seeing books like that all over the place.

Do you really thing they should be so readily dismissed?  If so, why?

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: A.D. 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2009, 01:49:42 AM »
I'm getting tired of seeing books like that all over the place.

Do you really thing they should be so readily dismissed?  If so, why?

It's not so much that the idea itself is ridiculous and without any merit to the point that it should not even be considered. What I find annoying and bothersome is that most people are espousing it as a fad simply because they see it as a useful tool to make another jab at Christianity, particularly institutional Christianity. Kind of like Zeitgeist (except that itself actually had no merit).
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: A.D. 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2009, 02:02:01 AM »


I noticed this a while ago at a local bookstore.  I was just wondering if there has been any real Orthodox reaction to this publication?  Freeman asserts that Emperor Theodosius actually issued the following degree prior to the Second Ecumenical Council:

Quote
We authorize followers of this law to assume the title of orthodox Christians; but as for the others since, in our judgment, they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious names of heretics.

After the persecution of the heretics began, the Church scrambled to issue a degree that would conform to the imperial edict, as She could not withstand the power of the emperor. 

If that's his argument, its a dumb one.

Yes, Theodosios issued that edict. The rest of the edict explicitely states that the Creed of Popes Damasus of Rome and Peter of Alexandria (both Orthodox) is the criteria of the state Creed.

As not being able to withstand the emperor, he should read about what happened when St. Ambrose of Milan (another Orthodox, who had combated the Arians) excommunicated Theodosius.



Quote
I haven't read the book yet.  It sounds as if there could be a lot of holes in the author's argument, but it does sound like an interesting book.

As anyone on here read it, and if so, any thoughts?

If you have described his arguement acurately, he has only holes, no substance, to his argument.  I prefer my fiction straight.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 02:03:00 AM by ialmisry »
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                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: A.D. 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2009, 02:13:55 AM »
Well, if I end up reading it, I might bring up any concerns the book raises.