Author Topic: Orthodoxy in Japan  (Read 5882 times)

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Offline ag_vn

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Re: Orthodoxy in Japan
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2010, 10:06:45 AM »
Very interesting... Do you know whether the Ecumenical Patriarchate recognize the Church of Japan? I've read that once the Ecumenical Patriarchate claimed jurisdiction over Japan through its Metropolis of New Zealand and later through the Metropolis of Korea.

I'm not sure what you mean by recognize.  I'm new to Orthodoxy, but I've never heard of His All Holiness claiming any jurisdiction in Japan.  We're under the omophorion of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Edit: I just looked at wikipedia and it says our autonomy is not universally recognized.  Perhaps that's what you're talking about?

Yes, that's what I meant, whether the Ecumenical Patriarchate recognizes the autonomous status of the Church of Japan.

I've never heard of His All Holiness claiming any jurisdiction in Japan.  
See:
http://www.patriarchate.org/greek/hierarchs/show.php?lang=gr&id=166
The title of metropolitan of Korea is : Μητροπολίτης Κορέας, ὑπέρτιμος καί Ἐξαρχος Ἰαπωνίας (Metropolitan of Korea and exarch of Japan).

Thank you both.

Are there actually Greek churches/parishes/missions in Japan?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 10:15:00 AM by ag_vn »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Orthodoxy in Japan
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2010, 12:03:56 PM »
Very interesting... Do you know whether the Ecumenical Patriarchate recognize the Church of Japan? I've read that once the Ecumenical Patriarchate claimed jurisdiction over Japan through its Metropolis of New Zealand and later through the Metropolis of Korea.

I'm not sure what you mean by recognize.  I'm new to Orthodoxy, but I've never heard of His All Holiness claiming any jurisdiction in Japan.  We're under the omophorion of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Edit: I just looked at wikipedia and it says our autonomy is not universally recognized.  Perhaps that's what you're talking about?

Yes. Of course, the Phanar claims all the "Barbarian Lands," and sees Japan as a barbarian land, which I am sure, knowing something of the Japanese world view, the Japanese should find interesting.

Quote
Yes, that's what I meant, whether the Ecumenical Patriarchate recognizes the autonomous status of the Church of Japan.

It doesn't recognize the Russian jurisdiction just as it doesn't recognize the Russian jurisdiction of the Mother Mission in North America (in many ways the Japanese mission was the daughter of the mission to North America), hence it does not recognize the Orthodox Church of Japan, its history, jurisdiction, autonomy or existence.

I've never heard of His All Holiness claiming any jurisdiction in Japan.  
See:
http://www.patriarchate.org/greek/hierarchs/show.php?lang=gr&id=166
The title of metropolitan of Korea is : Μητροπολίτης Κορέας, ὑπέρτιμος καί Ἐξαρχος Ἰαπωνίας (Metropolitan of Korea and exarch of Japan).

Thank you both.

Are there actually Greek churches/parishes/missions in Japan?
LOL. You will notice that the title he gives is neither in Korean nor Japanese.

I think that something was set up for the Greek expat community for Japan: God forbid that they should mix with the locals, or worship in an Orthodox Church that they didn't control, and was placed under the Greek bishop of New Zealand.  That may have gone defunct, and revived when the Metropolis of Hong Kong and real mission work by the Greeks began.

Btw, the title of the real canonical primate of Japan is 全日本の府主教、及び東京大主教 "Archbishop of Tokyo and Metropolitan of All Japan," HB Daniel . And after the repose of Pat. Alexei of blessed memory, at the PoM's web site on the vote for Patriarch, Met. Daniel pulled out first, as the only bishop in the PoM without a Soviet past.
http://jbpress.ismedia.jp/articles/-/466
In Japanese, but you can google translate.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 12:05:45 PM by ialmisry »
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Orthodoxy in Japan
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2010, 10:17:46 AM »

Yes. Of course, the Phanar claims all the "Barbarian Lands," and sees Japan as a barbarian land, which I am sure, knowing something of the Japanese world view, the Japanese should find interesting.


"interesting" is one word for it.  ;)
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Offline samkim

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Re: Orthodoxy in Japan
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2010, 01:14:21 PM »
Of course they're barbarians. :)
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Sauron

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Re: Orthodoxy in Japan
« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2011, 06:14:45 PM »
To be a good Japanese nationalist, one should pay a visit to the local Shinto shrine occasionally and help to pacify the spirits of the dead soldiers, and to petition the kami (gods).  Also, 'Shinto' as a category divorced from Buddhism is a recent development in Japan, so in a sense categorical 'Shinto' religion is rather new on the scene, but most of the practices are in fact the ancient indigenous religion of the people.

I am sorry to resurrect the thread, but I thought I would be remiss if I did not respond.

Shinto predates Buddhism in Japan. Buddhism is an Indian import by way of China, while Shinto is the indigenous animist religion. History notes some conflict between Buddhism and Shinto upon the former's arrival to Japan. Shinbutsu bunri (神仏分離) was not the birth of Shinto as a Buddhist offshoot.

The practices you describe of soldiers' spirits and Japanese nationalism describe State Shinto, a practice that arose in the late 19th century. Shinto itself is much more a system of practices regarding purity and cleanliness than a system of beliefs and dogma. The vast majority of Japanese would describe themselves as doing Shinto things rather than practicing Shinto. For example, I used to live rather close to Ise Shrine (one of Shinto's holiest) and now visit there with my beautiful young Japanese wife every year. It holds no religious significance to her or most of the other Japanese visitors who are there with us. Think of a nominal member of a religion who does religious things like weddings and funerals but does not practice their religion's precepts.

(You may find it surprising, but most Japanese do not wish to be a "good Japanese nationalist". Nationalism in Japan is associated with extreme right-wing political fanaticism. In the larger cities, one occasionally encounters a van or truck decked out with loud speakers while a nationalist shouts a diatribe. He is invariably regarded as nothing more than a curiosity to be watched for a minute before going about one's business.)

I think that "god" is not the best translation of "kami" (神), although while "spirit" is closer, it still misses the mark. Perhaps something like "spiritual essence", although that still feels clumsy. The rock has a kami, the wind, and the grass, but no one worships the wind or a pebble. Still, ritual is followed to (ostensibly) gain favor, although for most, again, I think it is going through the motions. I wash my hands before entering the shrine out of respect for the local practice, not because I wish to curry spiritual favor, and I am confident that most other visitors are of similar mindset.

As coincidence would have it, the first place I lived in Japan was Hakodate, St. Nicholas's first post in Japan. The Russian influence in the city remains to this day. I am only recently an orthodox inquirer, so I unfortunately did not make better use of my time in Hakodate. I will remedy that during my next visit to Hakodate.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Orthodoxy in Japan
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2011, 09:19:21 AM »
Welcome to the forum, Sauron.  :)

From my studies I would say that Shinto, as opposed to "State Shinto" (and how that developed during the Meiji years is interesting in itself particularly as it contributed to a concept of "nationalism") is made up of many large (sort of "national" or of historical/cultural significance like the Grand Shrine of Ise or Atsuta) and smaller local shrines and there is no one unifying mechanism or organization. 

There was a lot of overlap, interaction and, as Sauron wrote, sometimes conflict between the local beliefs and practices and Buddhism.  If you read some of the diaries and works from the Heian period there are descriptions of Shinto, Buddhist and Taoist practices being followed by people according to the situation and custom.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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