Hate hate hate... but what to do?

[Heorhij]

Dear folks,

Having been on OC.net for about 2 years now, I developed a certain perspective or, if you will, an attitude, to this site.

I really hate views expressed by a number of people here. Both religious and political/social.

For example, I just can't stand the views of those who claim that EP is too "liberal" or, read, forgiving to the d-d Catholics who are behind the Mustashi who killed my Berbian brothers. And that the only antidote to the EP and the d-d Catholics and the evil NATO is the Orthodox Empire lead by Vladimir Putin.

I also really hate the views of those who say that Hollywood is perpetrating a propaganda glorifying abortion and homosexuality. And I really, really, strongly, most strongly hate the views of those of you who believe that the real problem with America is "liberals" and "Socialists."

And I do not understand... and, well, maybe "hate" here is a word that is way too strong, but, really, do not understand the views of those of you who say that evolution could not happen and cannot happen because the Fathers did not acknowledge it in their writings; or the views of those of you who believe that Adam passed to his progeny something that changed 1,000,000,000 of his genes all at once so that because of his disobedience all his progeny (i.e. we all) became "mortal and diseased and all that, you know what."

And with all my hate for many of the views of the many of those who write to this forum, I love you all.

And I believe that I am an OK Orthodox because of that. Not a "good" Orthodox because that does not exist, but an OK Orthodox, one who is in the making, one who is "work in progress."

But I am tired of you, of many of you and of this site. I hate the fact that when there were disagreements between me and some of you, I wrote long, elaborate messages to you and you did not bother to reply.

I hate what I view as signs of brainwashing. I hate what I view as signs of Fundamentalist, utterly non-Christian (in my understanding, most personal and subjective as it is) attitude to the world and to your partner in dialogue.

And I cannot get rid of the belief that these signs are peculiar to the United S. of A.

Am I right, or am I mistaken?

Please write to me personally because I do not want to stir a discussion on the site. Just let me know what you think in a PM.

Many thanks.

Meanwhile, I will stick to the Facebook, which I found (recently) to be a lot more peaceful and interesting.

Praying for you all. Please pray for me.

George

[Entscheidungsproblem]

May the Lord bless and keep you, Heorhij!

[Catherine]

I can only speak from my personal experience as to why I find myself unhappy, on the forums, at times, George. My comments are not directed at anyone on O.C. net as I am new to the forum and (as I say) I can only speak from experience; it is nice on here. Anyway.. Forums reflect bellybuttons, George...Bear with me...  :-) Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one and often you will find them filled with a little fluff. Forums serve as a sounding board for peoples thoughts, ideas and opinions, differing opinions whatever they are are bound to cause some conflict or tensions.  People come to such forums with mixed motives and the anonymity doesn't help the situation, if we all were to physically meet together, get to know one another a bit better, then we would certainly treat one another quite differently on the forums. Sadly, this format of communication lacks the social interaction so desperately needed in good, wholesome, respectful, mutual conversation.  Also, I have a lot of misunderstandings with people, in cyberspace; body language is important, so I would say a face-to-face meeting is better, and tone of voice is often important too, meaning a phone conversation is better than the written word. I say this because I have had fallings out with people I know (people who I have not met face-to-face) through emails, etc. The fallings out have always been through misunderstandings, and this is because of how inadequate the written word can be. However, that depends upon the person: there are certainly many people who prefer "human" contact, but find it difficult to communicate in words, but I don't feel that way; eye contact, body-language... all this is lost online, but that doesn't mean I don't feel love, of course not, as I have an intense love for my cyberfriends, but I do have a lot of misunderstandings with people. On the whole, I do think that Forums are a good thing, if not a little obsessed with bellybuttons. There is plenty of room for discussion, debate and disagreements, so long as we all behave decently towards each other, which would be expected of all Christians. If you think about it.. we are Brothers and Sisters in Christ and all families argue, all families have their problems, families and relationships are hard work.    Perhaps you need a short break? Take a deep breath, take some time out, and pray.  It does no harm to have a break, I have often done that and suggested to others that they do the same; I think we all need a break from time to time. HOWEVER, you cannot stay away too long as I am 100% sure you will be missed (I might be new to the forum, but I have read quite a few posts and I know the folks on O.C.net luv ya!) If you do decide to take a break, enjoy your time off and come back refreshed.

You are in my prayers.

Much Love,
Catherine Sarah

[GabrieltheCelt]

^^Well said, Ms. Catherine.  I was about to post something similar, but you beat me to it and said it in a much better way. 

[Heorhij]

Guys, please, PM.

[Quinault]

I'm not as nice.

So what if you don't agree with other's views? It can't be the first time in your life you have had to deal with that. And as much as you hate the views of others there are bound to be people that hate your views as well. You are passionate about what you believe (example: that children shouldn't be taught anything about God) and others have things that they are passionate about (that you should teach children about God from birth). The difference is that you seem to need to convince others that you are "right" and they are "wrong." You don't seem to ever let things go as a difference of opinion. (even when you walk away from a discussion you make sure that you establish that you are "right" before you leave a few times) I highly suggest that you learn that skill of walking away and agreeing to disagree- then you will find online communication/discussion much easier.

And if you sincerely wanted to only communicate via PM you would have pm-ed the people that you wanted to hear from in particular. I am not going to pm you on this subject. If I seem like a certain expletive that is used to describe a cranky woman I don't mean to. But this post about how hard it is for you to be on a forum where everyone doesn't agree with you irks me. If you want to have a board where everyone agrees with you, start your own and make sure only to allow people on it that already agree with you. Otherwise buck up.

All this is said as a sister that has had to tell my 6 real life brothers to buck up. I have a great deal of respect for you George, I think you are a wonderful man. We don't agree on quite a few things but I still have a ton of respect for you.

[Quinault]

Online discussions aren't the same as in person ones. In person discussions are typically amongst friends over some good food and some wine. You can talk into the night and know that everyone is discussing so that they can know each other better. Online the discussions too often turn into * asinine disputes * in length and windbaggery (I am saying this as someone that has all too often been guilty of this myself). And there isn't typically a desire by everyone to discuss/debate in order to learn about each other. Online discussions nearly always turn into a battle of wills as to whom is right and whom is wrong.

A good rule of thumb I have learned- if the debate makes you feel angry well after you are offline you need to walk away and never look at the thread again no matter how curious you are.



MODERATION:  Colorful, yet inappropriately vulgar idiom replaced with something more acceptable yet--I hope--just as strong...  -PtA

[Entscheidungsproblem]

I shot a PM your way, Heorhij.

[Myrrh23]

Man, I wish you were my mom, Quin! You are a great person to learn from! I need to remember your lesson to "buck up", since I've let my personal troubles land me on Academic Probation.

George, I think Quin speaks wisely when she says

if the debate makes you feel angry well after you are offline you need to walk away and never look at the thread again no matter how curious you are

. I also think Catherine speaks wisely concerning her bellybutton quip. I believe that every website, even ones for entertainment, will feature people who possess views and behaviors that disagree with us. It's just a part of dealing with the internet and with people. (I also believe that there are people on this website, as with people on other websites, who would never, ever say to someone's face what oozes out of their fingertips!).
Don't feel like you're wrong if dealing with certain people here bums you out and you have to take a break. Even our Savior went away by Himself to pray and reflect. Every one of us needs time away to be with our God to refresh our spirits and continue the struggle. I think you should still give your opinion on matters here, as I believe the Holy Spirit uses us to reach one another.

As for me, I apologize if my craziness and childishness has offended you or anyone else. I know I've had a lot of growing up to do, and I know I've possessed extreme views in the past that have been tempered by people like you. It's good to give your views, as they may cause another to grow closer to Christ.

[Quinault]

+(sorry about being too colorful)

[PeterTheAleut]

+(sorry about being too colorful)

No harm done.

[Irish Hermit]

I am a Heorhij fan too.  I think he has a lot of heart and a lot of opinions.   He brought his large heart to his work as moderator.  He brings it to all his posts.  If he really does stay away from OC.net we will all be the poorer.

Fr Ambrose

[Entscheidungsproblem]

I am a Heorhij fan too.  I think he has a lot of heart and a lot of opinions.   He brought his large heart to his work as moderator.  He brings it to all his posts.  If he really does stay away from OC.net we will all be the poorer.

Fr Ambrose

Agreed.

[Quinault]

^ I agree as well.

[scamandrius]

Heorhij,

Hypocrisy is the homage vice pays to virtue.  There is plenty of pro-left, anti-conservative, anti-Republican messages on this board to go around a few thousand times and I see you often joining that chorus.  But the people you condemn are those who espouse views different from your own.  I would think that if you were really upset about the negative tones that have occurred, you would have written a blanket all-inclusive statement.  But no, you single out only those of us who may be on the right or conservative or libertarian or Republican as if we are the problem, as if we do more to cause harm.  Have you read any statements by your fellow ideologues such as Bono Vox, Ukiemeister, ytterbiumanalyst, Bogo, Nacho, etc.?  Their statements are pretty inflamatory and, on the whole, fillwed with way more derision towards opposing viewpoints than vice-versa.  So, again, I ask where is your condemnation of them?  But no, only we're the problem.  

Is the United States the only place where this happens?  I don't know, but we should rejoice in that fact that it does that we are not a monolithic or homogeneous people.  Our world would be pretty boring if we didn't have this opposition.  Many of us here do not want to be like what is in Europe.  If that is the kind of life you wish to have, you are more than welcome to it.  

I will admit that should you decide to stay away, you will be missed.  

[Myrrh23]

Amen, Fr. A!

[PeterTheAleut]

This is a public thread.  Let's keep the politics out of it.  Thank you.

[Catherine]

...and said it in a much better way. 

I doubt that very much (I've read your posts :-)). 

[ozgeorge]

 Have you read any statements by your fellow ideologues such as Bono Vox, Ukiemeister, ytterbiumanalyst, Bogo, Nacho, etc.?  

Unlike your good self, they at least have the grace to contain their political opinions in the Politics forum.

[Αριστοκλής]

Have you read any statements by your fellow ideologues such as Bono Vox, Ukiemeister, ytterbiumanalyst, Bogo, Nacho, etc.? 

Unlike your good self, they at least have the grace to contain their political opinions in the Politics forum.

So, an opinion about an opinion is political? By posting his lament in open forum but tacitly rooting his complaints based on the Private forum activity, the original poster only got a valid response here.

[ozgeorge]

So, an opinion about an opinion is political?

No. THIS is political:

There is plenty of pro-left, anti-conservative, anti-Republican messages on this board to go around a few thousand times and I see you often joining that chorus. ........ But no, you single out only those of us who may be on the right or conservative or libertarian or Republican as if we are the problem, as if we do more to cause harm. ...... But no, only we're the problem.  

[PeterTheAleut]

So, an opinion about an opinion is political?

No. THIS is political:

There is plenty of pro-left, anti-conservative, anti-Republican messages on this board to go around a few thousand times and I see you often joining that chorus. ........ But no, you single out only those of us who may be on the right or conservative or libertarian or Republican as if we are the problem, as if we do more to cause harm. ...... But no, only we're the problem.  

Indeed, THIS is political!

[Myrrh23]

(sighs) How about we just PM George about certain things rather than risk this whole Thread being moved to Politics with our retorts and quips? This is about helping our Brother understand and overcome. If this gets moved to you-know-where, I wonder if it will turn into the equivalent of a Town Hall Debate.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

I have no idea what goes on behind the close doors of "Politics." May be I should explore. Nevertheless,

a. I completely agree with Father Ambrose: "I am a Heorhij fan too.  I think he has a lot of heart and a lot of opinions.   He brought his large heart to his work as moderator.  He brings it to all his posts.  If he really does stay away from OC.net we will all be the poorer."

b. I also agree with Quinault who advised Heorhij to develop thicker skin.

c. As usual, His Ozness is being his provocative self.

[ozgeorge]

As usual, His Ozness is being his provocative self.

But scamandrius isn't being provocative?
Either take Quinalt's advice yourself and get over it or apply your standards generally to all and not just those whose views you dislike.

[Αριστοκλής]

"All of man's trouble stems from his inability to sit quietly in a room alone"

Well quoted, ozG

[scamandrius]

OzGeorge and PTA,

did you actually read Heorhij's original post?  It is filled with politics!  Notice how he talks about "socialism" and "liberalism", lamenting that others on this board are opposed to them.  Granted, he says that he is upset about the often vitriolic tone which accompanies the discussion of those issues.  And I responded in kind pointing out the hypocrisy.

Perhaps the OP should have been moved to the politics board. 

And Oz, please, the aforementioned people have commented on political things outside the politics board.

[ozgeorge]

did you actually read Heorhij's original post? 

I don't know about PTA but I did.

It is filled with politics! 

I don't think it is. I think it is filled with a genuine request for help VIA PM to understand how to deal with conflicts of opinion which grate on his value system and knowledge.

And I responded in kind pointing out the hypocrisy.

And I responded as he requested via pm with suggestions of how to deal with what he is experiencing.

[PeterTheAleut]

OzGeorge and PTA,

did you actually read Heorhij's original post?  It is filled with politics!  Notice how he talks about "socialism" and "liberalism", lamenting that others on this board are opposed to them.  Granted, he says that he is upset about the often vitriolic tone which accompanies the discussion of those issues.  And I responded in kind pointing out the hypocrisy.

Perhaps the OP should have been moved to the politics board. 

And Oz, please, the aforementioned people have commented on political things outside the politics board.

Yes, I have read Heorhij's original post.  While there is some political material in it, the political references were, in my professional opinion, peripheral to and merely supportive of the non-political points he wanted to make.  I also disagree with you perception that the OP is "filled with politics".  If anything, politics makes a very small part of Heorhij's post.  Unless the moderator of this board, Pravoslavbob, decides that the OP should be moved to Politics, I see no reason why it shouldn't be allowed to stay here.

You, OTOH, decided to rip Heorhij's political statements out of context and make them the focus of your very political rant.  Even if what Heorhij did WAS wrong and a violation of forum policy, which--as I said before--I don't believe, your decision to follow suit and continue the political discussion here on the Public Forum was equally wrong and worthy of formal sanction.  If you believe what someone has posted on a public thread is politics, then please bring the post to our attention via the "Report to Moderator" function so we moderators can decide whether it should be moved to the Politics board.  Don't post politics on the Public Forum, EVEN in reply to someone else's political post.  If we have to formally warn someone else for posting politics on the Public Forum, you will receive the same warning if you reply to the political post with an equally political post.

I will accept no further argument on this thread.  If you want to continue this argument, please take it up with me and the rest of the moderator team in private.

- PeterTheAleut

[GabrieltheCelt]

"All of man's trouble stems from his inability to sit quietly in a room alone"

Well quoted, ozG

    

[LizaSymonenko]

Heorhij!  We all love you!  Even if we disagree at times.  It's from these discussions that we learn.  We either develope new viewpoints or get strengthened in our original opinions.  Don't take any of it 'personally'.  If it wasn't said to you, it would have been to someone else.  It's just back and forth banter.  We are all siblings within the Church.  Siblings always squabble - yet in the end forgive each other!
I know personally, that my sister and I can argue, but, woe to the outsider who says something against my sister!
This is the same.  Familial disagreements.  It'll blow over.

Remember, we are instructed to love one another.

Love and peace to all my 'siblings'!

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