Author Topic: Liturgy of St. James  (Read 166 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
  • O Most Holy Theotokos, save us
  • Faith: EO or Coptic? leaning EO
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR, Greek OR Coptic?
Liturgy of St. James
« on: Yesterday at 09:57:32 PM »
What is this liturgy? I hear it is the oldest surviving Liturgy from 49 A.D., and I hear it used by the Syriac Orthodox Church, any other information anybody has about this Liturgy? Thanks

Offline Tikhon29605

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 669
Re: Liturgy of St. James
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 10:13:40 PM »
The Divine Liturgy of St. James is actually very similar to the liturgies of Saint John Chrysostom and Saint Basil that we use today.  If you are familiar with both of those, the Liturgy of St. James would not be all that different to you. It is a much longer liturgy, but the overall format is pretty much the same.  There are a couple notable differences from today's Liturgy:

1.  The Cherubic Hymn is different.  St. James uses the original Cherubic hymn "Let all mortal flesh keep silence" instead of the newer "Let us who mystically represent the Cherubim."
2.  The prayers of the Anaphora are VERY VERY long, even longer than those of Saint Basil's liturgy.
3.  Because it is so ancient, the Liturgy of St. James pre-dates the use of the spoon in the Eucharist. There is no intinction in this liturgy.  The Body and Blood of Christ are administered separately to all the communicants, if it is done in its most ancient form.  The faithful receive the Body of Christ by opening their mouth and having the priest place it on their tongue.  The faithful then receive the precious Blood by drinking directly from the Chalice.

I hope that answers your questions.

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
  • O Most Holy Theotokos, save us
  • Faith: EO or Coptic? leaning EO
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR, Greek OR Coptic?
Re: Liturgy of St. James
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 10:17:23 PM »
Thanks there a Syriac Orthodox Church about a hour and 15 minutes or so away from me once I get a working vehicle I want to pay a visit I talked to the priest very briefly on the phone he a nice guy from the sounds of it they seem happy anyone even know they exist. Thanks for the info especially the info on the Eucharist is very informative.

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
  • O Most Holy Theotokos, save us
  • Faith: EO or Coptic? leaning EO
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR, Greek OR Coptic?
Re: Liturgy of St. James
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 10:25:40 PM »
The Divine Liturgy of St. James is actually very similar to the liturgies of Saint John Chrysostom and Saint Basil that we use today.  If you are familiar with both of those, the Liturgy of St. James would not be all that different to you. It is a much longer liturgy, but the overall format is pretty much the same.  There are a couple notable differences from today's Liturgy:

1.  The Cherubic Hymn is different.  St. James uses the original Cherubic hymn "Let all mortal flesh keep silence" instead of the newer "Let us who mystically represent the Cherubim."
2.  The prayers of the Anaphora are VERY VERY long, even longer than those of Saint Basil's liturgy.
3.  Because it is so ancient, the Liturgy of St. James pre-dates the use of the spoon in the Eucharist. There is no intinction in this liturgy.  The Body and Blood of Christ are administered separately to all the communicants, if it is done in its most ancient form.  The faithful receive the Body of Christ by opening their mouth and having the priest place it on their tongue.  The faithful then receive the precious Blood by drinking directly from the Chalice.

I hope that answers your questions.

I got one more question how long is the Liturgy so I know how long it would last if I ever get to attend it?

Offline Tikhon29605

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 669
Re: Liturgy of St. James
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 10:38:38 PM »
The Syriacs are Oriental Orthodox, not Eastern Orthodox.  What I said earlier pertains to how we Eastern Orthodox celebrate the Liturgy of St. James on those rare occasions when we do (usually only a seminary or a monastery and even then usually only once a year on the Feast of St. James, if it is celebrated at all.  (Remember there are only a handful of Eastern Orthodox who celebrate this ancient Liturgy anymore.)

Since the Syriacs are Oriental Orthodox, they do not follow the liturgical traditions that we do.  Many of our liturgical traditions come from Constantinople.  The Syriacs follow an older tradition that comes from Antioch.  I do not know how similar their version of St. James would be to the Byzantine version we would use.  It might be very different, I just don't know.  If they were to serve it in its FULL form with no abbreviations it could easily last 3.5 to 4 hours.  However, since the Syriacs use St. James as their primary Sunday liturgy, it might not take that long. They could have developed an abbreviated manner of serving it over the years and leave the full , unabbreviated version for the monasteries.

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
  • O Most Holy Theotokos, save us
  • Faith: EO or Coptic? leaning EO
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR, Greek OR Coptic?
Re: Liturgy of St. James
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 10:41:52 PM »
Thanks I'm still a inquirer so I haven't made up my mind yet still you been a great service and help.

Offline Tikhon29605

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 669
Re: Liturgy of St. James
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 10:43:26 PM »
I found a link for you.  This is the Anaphora of the Syriac version of the Liturgy of St. James, translated into English.  Enjoy!

http://sor.cua.edu/Liturgy/Anaphora/James.html

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
  • O Most Holy Theotokos, save us
  • Faith: EO or Coptic? leaning EO
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR, Greek OR Coptic?
Re: Liturgy of St. James
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 10:50:59 PM »
Awesome thanks so much!  :)

Offline Dominika

  • Troublesome Sheep
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,390
  • Serbian/Polish
    • My youtube channel
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Sth different than my heart belongs to
Re: Liturgy of St. James
« Reply #8 on: Today at 02:52:11 PM »
Actually, there are a few more very characteristic features of this Liturgy than Tikhon29605 wrote.
1. The sermon is said by priest that's sitting
2. No use of mitras, trikirion and dikirion (these special candles) by bishops
3. Sometimes the Liturgy is served before the iconostasis (as in the old times there were only curtains) and it should be served with face toward the faithful (I've especially observed it in videos from Jordan from the Great Thursday; in Jerusalem Patriarchate this Liturgy is used a bit more often than in other local EO Churches
4. The content of some ektenies is quite different
5. Another order of the readings:
a) the Old Testament
b) the New Testament (except the Gospel)
c) the Gospel

There is also the Liturgy of st. James of the Pre-Sanctified Gifts, but altough there are quite new re-prints of it, I doubt it's still used anywhere, even in Palestine or Jordan

Edit: I've attended it twice in 2 different churches; as far I remember it lasts about 2 hours, so not much longer (or even the same) as Liturgy of st. John
« Last Edit: Today at 02:55:59 PM by Dominika »
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The cat is back and its better than ever!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,630
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Liturgy of St. James
« Reply #9 on: Today at 07:41:35 PM »
Actually, there are a few more very characteristic features of this Liturgy than Tikhon29605 wrote.
1. The sermon is said by priest that's sitting
2. No use of mitras, trikirion and dikirion (these special candles) by bishops
3. Sometimes the Liturgy is served before the iconostasis (as in the old times there were only curtains) and it should be served with face toward the faithful (I've especially observed it in videos from Jordan from the Great Thursday; in Jerusalem Patriarchate this Liturgy is used a bit more often than in other local EO Churches
4. The content of some ektenies is quite different
5. Another order of the readings:
a) the Old Testament
b) the New Testament (except the Gospel)
c) the Gospel

There is also the Liturgy of st. James of the Pre-Sanctified Gifts, but altough there are quite new re-prints of it, I doubt it's still used anywhere, even in Palestine or Jordan

Edit: I've attended it twice in 2 different churches; as far I remember it lasts about 2 hours, so not much longer (or even the same) as Liturgy of st. John
Its a Novus Ordo liturgy?!?!?!  ;)
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline Cyrillic

  • The Laughing Cavalier
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,002
  • Φέρ' ὕδωρ φέρ' οἶνον, ὦ παῖ!
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Finland
Re: Liturgy of St. James
« Reply #10 on: Today at 07:43:13 PM »
Since the Syriacs are Oriental Orthodox, they do not follow the liturgical traditions that we do.  Many of our liturgical traditions come from Constantinople.  The Syriacs follow an older tradition that comes from Antioch. 

The Constantinopolitan Liturgy is an Antiochene Liturgy. It has developed, sure, but it shares the same roots as the Syriac liturgy.
« Last Edit: Today at 07:43:19 PM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

νίκας τοῖς Βασιλεῦσι κατὰ βαρβάρων δωρούμενος

Offline JTLoganville

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Re: Liturgy of St. James
« Reply #11 on: Today at 09:00:22 PM »
It is served in parishes dedicated to St. James on the patronal festival, October 23.

I have attended this at the St. James AO Mission in Westminster, Maryland.