Author Topic: Four Liturgical Questions for Antiochian and/or SVS-educated clergy  (Read 242 times)

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Offline wgw

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These questions came to mind when posting in the thread on praise and worship music, but I did not wish to risk taking that thread off topic:

1. For those of you educated at St. Vladimir's Seminary, are you specifically taught therein that instrumental music is incompatible with Orthodoxy?  If so, are the Armenians from St. Nerses Seminary who study some courses at SVS also present when that is taught?

2. Does the Antiochian Western Rite Vicarate make use of organs?

3. Are there any specific instructions given by Eastern Rite bishops in the AOCNA concerning the use of musical instruments?

4. This question may be moot in light of no. 3, but were any older Antiochian parishes built with organs, and are these instruments still used or allowed to be used?

I am just curious on this based on some specific comments made on the subject of this issue by Father Giryus and also by Father Andrew Stephen Dammick, and by a few other SVS graduates I have met.   I think Holy Trinity Seminary in Jordanville probably does teach that instrumental worship is un-Orthodox; from what I understand the ROCOR Western Rite does not use organs (or pews).
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 05:45:51 PM by wgw »

Online Mor Ephrem

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1. For those of you educated at St. Vladimir's Seminary, are you specifically taught therein that instrumental music is incompatible with Orthodoxy?  If so, are the Armenians from St. Nerses Seminary who study some courses at SVS also present when that is taught?

I don't ever recall being taught that "instrumental music is incompatible with Orthodoxy".  We were simply taught Orthodox music. 

Quote
I am just curious on this based on some specific comments made on the subject of this issue by Father Giryus and also by Father Andrew Stephen Dammick, and by a few other SVS graduates I have met. 

IIRC, Fr Damick is a graduate of St Tikhon's. 
Mor has an open appeal. This we knew already.

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Offline JTLoganville

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Re:  Question 2 - Yes.

So do some Greek Orthodox parishes...to the detriment of both choir and congregation.

Offline Elisha

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Re:  Question 2 - Yes.

So do some Greek Orthodox parishes...to the detriment of both choir and congregation.

The Antiochian parish in San Francisco (I think built in the 60's) uses an organ.  It plays the melody kinda softly to accompany the choir.  I didn't find it very noticeable after about halfway into the service.

Offline Elisha

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Btw, the Capella Romana Greek Liturgy CD w/ Organ (released a couple years ago) is pretty good.  I think the organ could've been a little quieter at times, but overall a nice CD.  With that said though, I would NEVER advocate a parish that doesn't already use an organ to suddenly go out and get one and use it.

Online Aram

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1. Armenian seminarians take their liturgical music and other practicum courses from St. Nersess faculty at their own campus, not at St. Vlad's. The courses they take at SVS are more of the general, not necessarily Armenian-specific types. It's a hybrid program--students shuttle back and forth between the two campuses.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 07:41:53 PM by Aram »

Offline wgw

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Thank you all for your answers!  It is much appreciated.  :)

Offline wgw

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Btw, the Capella Romana Greek Liturgy CD w/ Organ (released a couple years ago) is pretty good.  I think the organ could've been a little quieter at times, but overall a nice CD.  With that said though, I would NEVER advocate a parish that doesn't already use an organ to suddenly go out and get one and use it.

You are thinking of the Divine Liturgy of Tikey Zes.  They have one other album of his work, which also includes some folk music, but I can't recall the name.

My favourite Capella Romana albums are The Divine Liturgy as set by Michaelides, Arctic Light: Music of the Finnish Orthodox Church, Lay Aside All Earthly Cares (a compendoum of English language music), Gothic Pipes, the recording at St. Catharines in Sinai, The Fall of Constantinople, the two Zes recording, When Augustus Reigned, the Russian Orthodoc Holy Week settings by Steinerg, and of course, the legendary recording of the Divine Liturgy in English lamguahe Byzantine chant, which firmly dispelled the myth that the Byzantine Chant was not compatible with the English language.  Alexander Lingas likes dispelling myths.  I consider him the foremost choir director, musicologost, and liturgical historian in the Eastern Orthodox Church (his papers on the history of the Cathedral Rite, the Asthmatic Office, were an absolute delight). 

A true genius, one of the best minds in the Church today.

Offline Cavaradossi

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Offline Alpo

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from what I understand the ROCOR Western Rite does not use organs (or pews).

But my heart belongs to ROCOR.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline DeniseDenise

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Asmatic*. An asthmatic office is something I would not want to hear.


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Offline scamandrius

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4. This question may be moot in light of no. 3, but were any older Antiochian parishes built with organs, and are these instruments still used or allowed to be used?



My parish does have an organ which is still located in the choir loft.  It has not been played in decades and I'm not sure it even still works.  It is a beast to move so it has sat in the same place collecting dust for all these years.  As far as I know, before there were some chanters at the church (not until the late 80s), the organ was used but I don't know how often during Liturgy (Vespers and Orthros were not yet part of the set schedule of services).

Offline asdamick

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I am just curious on this based on some specific comments made on the subject of this issue by Father Giryus and also by Father Andrew Stephen Dammick, and by a few other SVS graduates I have met.   I think Holy Trinity Seminary in Jordanville probably does teach that instrumental worship is un-Orthodox; from what I understand the ROCOR Western Rite does not use organs (or pews).

I went to St. Tikhon's, actually, and I have zero recollection as to whether this issue was ever addressed during my time there.

And please, of your charity, spare me that extra "m" in my last name.  My poor great-grandfather thought that "Damick" (DAY-mick) might be easier to pronounce than our Lithuanian "Domeika."  If only he had known that our family would be reduced to something just shy of a curse! Alas.  :)
The Rev. Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick, Emmaus, Pennsylvania

Author, "Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy" (2011) & "An Introduction to God" (2014) (both from Ancient Faith Publishing / Conciliar Press), as well as the forthcoming "Bearing God" (2017).