Author Topic: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)  (Read 6298 times)

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Offline Tonedawg

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Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« on: January 17, 2016, 02:40:51 AM »
Hello everyone,

To all my Copts here, does anyone know of this man at this link? http://shineinternational.org/Founder

He looks Egyptian and has a history within the Coptic Orthodox Church. His bio states that he spend years in the dessert of Egypt. No mention of him being an actual Coptic orthodox priest. His bio seems eerily similar to that of a Dr. Atef Aziz. I'm lead to believe that he is the same person. He goes by the name of Father Seraphim (Atef Meshreky) but a quick Google search doesn't reveal that he is associated with any church nor was he consecrated by any canonical Orthodox Church. Is this the same Dr. Atef Aziz who was excommunicated by the late Pope Shenouda III? Any information on "father" seraphim would be appreciated. He's also dressed similar to an EO priest, which is interesting.

Thanks.
“How needful the human being is of service of the spirit, in an age where materialism, atheism, apostasy and deviant intellectual trends prevail. How needful people are to see Christ in our lives and to smell His sweet fragrance in us." St. Kyrillos (Cyril) VI

Offline Tonedawg

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2016, 03:54:41 AM »
Excuse the bad spelling, was typing from my iPad lol
“How needful the human being is of service of the spirit, in an age where materialism, atheism, apostasy and deviant intellectual trends prevail. How needful people are to see Christ in our lives and to smell His sweet fragrance in us." St. Kyrillos (Cyril) VI

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2016, 11:15:05 AM »
bump!

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2016, 12:04:25 PM »
I have encountered a number of Copts who 'flee' into the Byzantine world to flee from discipline.  Looks like we have another case, given the photo.

My hope is that someday we'll have a better mechanism for 'checking out' these fellows before they are received, though I doubt any EO bishop has received him yet.  That would mean accountability, and we all know how off-putting that is...    ::)
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2016, 12:06:53 PM »
If you do a youtube search on him, he seems to just sew that EO dress on his own.  For some time, he just wore black with a shaved face, preaching to an Asian community, and seems to have some sort of Charismatic/Pentecostal vibe about him.
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If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Remnkemi

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2016, 12:20:22 PM »
It sounds like the same person.
Quote
"Today we have the same bad story: [the story of] a doctor who didn’t make it in the field of medicine. He is called Dr. Atef Aziz from Assiut. This doctor, who seems to be mentally ill, claims that he gets a direct relationship with God. He claims that he has been inspired by God who has given him instructions about establishing a new church called "The New Testament Church," because the present church is away from the right religion.

Dr. Atef Aziz calls on people to be devoted only to God and to him as being the minister of "The New Testament Church." He believes that the teachings of this church should prevail throughout Egypt.

That’s why Pope Shenouda has formed a committee of a number of bishops to investigate Dr. Atef Aziz and his followers who believe in his teachings.

The committee asked them to go turn away from such beliefs but they refused. They remained acting according to this heresy. This matter, therefore, was submitted to the Holy Council, headed by Pope Shenouda. The council decided to punish the group by excommunicating them from the Orthodox Church."
http://www.arabwestreport.info/en/year-2002/week-37/14-heresy-coptic-orthodox-church

Both lived in Upper Egypt. Both went to medical school (although Fr Seraphim says he completed medical school and the other reference says he failed). Shine International doesn't seem different than the New Testament Church. According to Wiki, the New Testament Church is a Pentecostal Mission church (TPM). The Shine International "teachings" are almost verbatim of TPM.

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2016, 12:20:51 PM »
If you do a youtube search on him, he seems to just sew that EO dress on his own.  For some time, he just wore black with a shaved face, preaching to an Asian community, and seems to have some sort of Charismatic/Pentecostal vibe about him.

Virtually all of my Arab families who leave the Church do so in the direction of 'Charismatic/Pentecostal' churches.  There's an Arabic-language one that has scooped up a number of families.  Funny thing, though: when they want a marriage, they end up coming back to us.  Baptisms, too.

Kind of annoying.

It seems that emotional worship is very tempting to Arabs in general.
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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2016, 12:23:09 PM »
It sounds like the same person.
Quote
"Today we have the same bad story: [the story of] a doctor who didn’t make it in the field of medicine. He is called Dr. Atef Aziz from Assiut. This doctor, who seems to be mentally ill, claims that he gets a direct relationship with God. He claims that he has been inspired by God who has given him instructions about establishing a new church called "The New Testament Church," because the present church is away from the right religion.

Dr. Atef Aziz calls on people to be devoted only to God and to him as being the minister of "The New Testament Church." He believes that the teachings of this church should prevail throughout Egypt.

That’s why Pope Shenouda has formed a committee of a number of bishops to investigate Dr. Atef Aziz and his followers who believe in his teachings.

The committee asked them to go turn away from such beliefs but they refused. They remained acting according to this heresy. This matter, therefore, was submitted to the Holy Council, headed by Pope Shenouda. The council decided to punish the group by excommunicating them from the Orthodox Church."
http://www.arabwestreport.info/en/year-2002/week-37/14-heresy-coptic-orthodox-church

Both lived in Upper Egypt. Both went to medical school (although Fr Seraphim says he completed medical school and the other reference says he failed). Shine International doesn't seem different than the New Testament Church. According to Wiki, the New Testament Church is a Pentecostal Mission church (TPM). The Shine International "teachings" are almost verbatim of TPM.

He might have discovered that there are a whole lot of 'New Testament Church' groups out there, so he had to get a name that wasn't already an existing internet domain name...   :o
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Offline Jonathan

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2016, 04:21:19 PM »
I have encountered a number of Copts who 'flee' into the Byzantine world to flee from discipline.  Looks like we have another case, given the photo.

Often though they're being disciplined for teaching Orthodoxy, or just falsely accused. I hope those continue to find a home.

I don't mean like this guy, who seems to be protestant and doesn't seem to have sought to be received.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 04:26:30 PM by Jonathan »

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2016, 03:50:23 AM »
Thanks you all for your responses. This gentlemen here doesn't seem to be a part of any Orthodox Church. A few articles from arab west report reveal his troubling past, and he seems to be teaching a mixture of Pentecostalism mixed with orthodoxy. He claims to be teaching from the early church fathers.
“How needful the human being is of service of the spirit, in an age where materialism, atheism, apostasy and deviant intellectual trends prevail. How needful people are to see Christ in our lives and to smell His sweet fragrance in us." St. Kyrillos (Cyril) VI

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2016, 10:06:03 PM »
Someone shared with me the Coptic Synod's decisions against Atef Aziz. Excuse the translation, it's not perfect but it gets the point across. Please see below:


Resolutions of the Holy Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Church During the Era of Pope Shenouda III (117)
 
Page 194
Atef Aziz
Session dated on 01 June 1996,
 
The Holy Synod demanded precautions to be taken against Atef Aziz and his group, and for the group not to be permitted to teach.
 
Session dated 22 June 2002,
Faults of Atef Aziz and his group were read, as follows:
 
First, this is a private anti-church group falls under a single leader; Dr. Atef Aziz Mikhail, who gets offered the full loyalty and submission, after God, from the rest of the group members.
 
Second, this group works in complete secrecy following the style of cluster cells; as Dr. Atef trains a group of leaders, and then each leader would train a private group of disciples.   
 
Third, this group plans to spread all over and within the Coptic Orthodox Church in the shape of groups, such as the groups of Al Faggalah, Al Zamalek, Masr Al Gadeedah, Ezbat Al Nakhl, and Shobra, and they consider their main territory to be
 
Page 195
 
In Asyout. The group conducts activities in Manfalot, Al Minya as well other area and they allocate provinces of Egypt to group leaders.
 
Fourth, Dr. Atef believes that he is tasked with a very special call from God for renewing the Church. Some members of the group agree and they consider themselves to be the true church of Jesus and the church of the New Testament which shall replace the current ruined, dead, desolating Church along with its corrupt shepherds. Therefore, they shall link the current generation with the age of our Christian Fathers of the fourth century, because the current church had stepped away from the ideological and spiritual path of the early fathers. 
 
Fifth, According to their records and books, a clear spirit of pride can be observed which had struck the group, as shown in their messages where the group alleged that it was sent to them from the Holy Spirit via visions, speaking in different tongues (languages) or through direct speeches.
 
Sixth, the group’s approach is characterized by passion and emotions as they repeat certain slogans many times and very passionately; such as “The power of the blood of Jesus sets us free”.
 
Seventh, the group focuses on the presence of Satan and its control over vacant places, and they believe that the Holy Spirit had given them special formula of prayers to be recited on water and sprayed at their gathering sites. In addition, the group also believes that the Satan goes out of their chests while coughing during prayers.
 
Eighth, an unreal language was indicated in their audio recordings as they alleged to be an evidence of speaking in tongues and it was also indicated in handwritten notes. Group members had implemented such practices alleging that they were granted special talents and heavenly messages. Dr. Atef believes that the talent of speaking in tongues cannot discontinue in the church.
 
Page 196
 
Ninth, Dr. Atef alleged in audio recordings that the Holy Spirit spoke to him.
 
Tenth, Dr. Atef Aziz and his group apply deception methods, as upon their arrival from Asyout, they have not abided by the written pledges they submit to the committee of the Holy Synod formed according to the request of Pope Shenouda III, during which Atef Aziz and his group pledged to abide by the teaching of the church, and refrain from the Pentecostal doctrine. Nonetheless, they show certain behavior and act defiantly, then lie to cover for their undisclosed activities or their improper purposes.
 
Eleventh, the group has not benefited from the given chances, warnings, or disciplinary actions issued by the church, however they remained on their path and started to disseminate their publications to the congregation for the purpose of toppling the official Church and establishing their private church.
 
It became dangerous to ignore such group while they deceive young men and women, and consecrate some of them without asking for the permission of the church, as a preliminary step to form a defected sect while utilizing Priest Safnia as a church cover for their subversive activity which deviates from the true Orthodox dogma.
 
The Holy Synod accepted the recommendations of the Committee of Faith, Education, and Legislation and issued a verdict, was published in Al Kirazah magazine, to prohibit this group and all their followers from serving, teaching, and partaking in the Church Communion and all Holy Sacraments, and for Father Safnia to be stripped of his monasticism and priesthood, for his to return to using his original name of Medhat Kamel Fahmy and to be banned from the Priestly ministry and all types of service in Cairo, Alexandria, and all Dioceses which fall under the Episcopate of St. Mark. Furthermore, for all this
 
Page 197
 
To be published in a public newspaper. This verdict is also considered to be a decision to abstract Dr. Atef forms his diaconal rank of Agnestts in addition to the rest of his group to include diaconal and consecration ranks. 
 
Below are names of some activists within the gorup of Atef Aziz:
1. Nabil Adly Kamel
2. Engineer Salah Fayik Matta
3. Miranda Kamel Fahmy (Formerly Tasoni Anastasia)
4. Jalina Labib Ramzy (Formerly a Tasoni)
5. Samia Sadek Abadeer (Formerly a Tasoni)
6. Awatef Adeeb Elias (Formerly Tasoni Kristina)
7. Ezis Refky
8. Suzi Kamel Habeesh
9. Sawsan Sad
10. Manal William
11. Hala William
 
The Holy Synod also accepted the recommendations of the Committee of Faith, Education, and Legislation and issued a signed statement by His Holiness Pope Shenouda III to all Priests of Cairo, Alexandria, and all Dioses to warning against Atef Aziz and his group.
The decision of the Holy Synod and the published statement of the Holy Synod at Al Kirazah magazine are going to be published on the issue which will be published right after the Pentecost Holiday. The statement comprises that the group of Atef Aziz alleges the possession of superior talents such as speaking in tongues, receiving visions, where they see themselves as Patriarchs as well as the priesthood of women in addition to the above summary of mistakes as indicated in the report of the Synodic Committee of Faith, Education, and Legislation.
The Holy Synod had added to the verdict that the “Gates of repentance are open to those who depart this group and its beliefs.
 
 
 
 
“How needful the human being is of service of the spirit, in an age where materialism, atheism, apostasy and deviant intellectual trends prevail. How needful people are to see Christ in our lives and to smell His sweet fragrance in us." St. Kyrillos (Cyril) VI

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2016, 11:36:11 PM »
Quote
The Coptic Orthodox hierarchs of North America, including Metropolitan Serapion, have published an important Pastoral Message concerning the heretical movement of Atef Aziz, who has taken shelter within the jurisdiction of the Orthodox Church in America.

Please read the statement and exercise caution against this new heresy.

Pastoral Message Concerning Atef Aziz

http://lacopts.org/news/pastoral-message-concerning-atef-aziz/
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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2016, 11:42:03 PM »
So he's still in the OCA? The OCA sponsors his mission?
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Offline wgw

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2016, 12:23:09 AM »
I have encountered a number of Copts who 'flee' into the Byzantine world to flee from discipline.  Looks like we have another case, given the photo.

Often though they're being disciplined for teaching Orthodoxy, or just falsely accused. I hope those continue to find a home.

That's a very serious accusation, and every Coptic diocesan bishop I know of has been strictly Orthodox (HG Youssef of the Southern US, HG Serapion of Los Angeles, HG Abanoub of Muqattam, to name a few).  Fr. Atef Azis was obviously, lets be frank, a heretic, and every other case Ive heard of where the Coptic Church has deposed someone or otherwise cut ties, it has been for a very good reason.  If there is a specific case of someone getting the sack for preaching Orthodoxy in the Coptic Church that is eating you, please post a thread on it, or link us to such threads; I think that would be more charitable than basically bashing the Holy Synod en passant*.   That may not have been your intention, but your post read that way to me; this priest has been correctly removed.

*"In passing" in French.

So he's still in the OCA? The OCA sponsors his mission?

Fortunately, not.  See this article: https://tcopt.wordpress.com/2016/01/18/father-seraphim/

He is not a priest in the OCA,    He apparently spent some time living in the monastery of St. John of San Francisco where he was tonsured a rassaphore, and he now lives in Phoenix, where he occasionally attends, as a layman, an OCA mission parish. 

If he is penitent I am not surprised if the OCA does grant him some form of monastic "shelter," similiar to the very gracious and proper way they received Archbishop Lazar Puhalo as a retired titular bishop, taking care to enjoin him from teaching on certain topics like human sexuality against the settled doctrine of the Church.  I think the OCA deserves a lot of credit for how they have handled painful situations of personal failure like that.

But we can rest assured that the OCA is not supporting a person anathematized by the Coptic church in spreading a heresy they anathematize as much as we do.  They would not do that; I can't imagine the OCA sponsoring a deposed Coptic priest and setting him up in a mission parish with a blessing to solicit Coptic converts with Pentecostal / neo-Gnostic / Chiliast worship.  A lot of people like to criticize the OCA, and there have been some problems and controversies, but let us grant them some credit.  He has "shelter."  I believe if he starts causing problems for the Coptic Church, a phone call between HG Serapion, who I have met and much admire, and HG Benjamin, who I have not met but have interacted with indirectly, and who I also admire greatly, would be sufficient to fix the problem.

Edit: updated ro reflect the exact status of Fr. Seraphim in the OCA.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 12:53:52 AM by wgw »

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2016, 01:11:53 AM »
Apparently, he's now "Fr. Macarius"

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2016, 01:17:12 AM »
Note: I have failed to give the bishop of Los Angels proper credit under OCNet regulations; I am pleased to report he is now His Eminence, Metropolitan Serapion of Los Angeles.  Axios, and may God grant him many years, and a service of distinction like his namesake Metropolitan Serapion of Thmuis.

As an amusing anecdote, the first time I met the Metropolitan he was still a regular diocesan bishop, in 2013; having just been received into the Syriac Orthodox Church, on the Saturday before Pentecost Inresolved to visit a Coptic church, and then I had the thrilling experience of Syriac Orthodox Pentecost the next day (where Metropolitan Mor Eugene Kaplan was present.  Because our Cathedral was the seat of an archdiocese, I assumed, incorrectly, that the Coptic bishop was also a Metropolitan and said "Thank you, your eminence," when he handed me the blessed bread from his throne in the center of the parish (this was at St. Mary and Athanasius in Van Nuys).  He seemed to smile in the subtle way bishops express emotion.

I am delighted that now I can correctly call him a Metropolitan.

I also inadvertantly demoted Archbishop Benjamin from his rank, and called him His Grace when he is in fact Very Reverend.

~

To clarify on my previous post also, it seems clear the OCA is strictly providing "shelter."  What that means is they are allowimg him to be a Rassaphore and to provide him with the sacraments; he is not a priest and has no teaching authority.  There might well be cause however for some pan-Orthodox efforts to help make sure things stay that way; the OCA is known for being friendly with the Oriental Orthodox, for example, welcomimg them at St. Vladimir's, so I doubt that they would ignore a warning from the Coptic church about this man.

Someone ought to e-mail the warning letter written by the Coptic bishops led by Metropolitan Serapion to Archbishop Benjamin's office, so the OCA hierarchy can be made aware of this specific concern, if they are not already.  Both the Coptic Church and the OCA in the areas concerned (Arizona and California) are huge; if I had to guess I would say that they are the largest and most geographically diverse Orthodox churches in the region.  So it is easy to see how someone might try to slip through the cracks and sneak his way from one into the other (since the OCA out west is extremely ethnically diverse; I have yet to visit a predominantly Russian or Russian American OCA parish out here, and there are a great many Antiochians and other Arabs in the OCA).

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2016, 01:19:04 AM »
Apparently, he's now "Fr. Macarius"

Well, perhaps the name Macarius was given to him when the OCA tonsured him a Rassophore?

Is it not the custom to call all monks Father in Eastern Orthodox even if they are Rassaphores?  Or should he be called Brother?

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2016, 01:25:19 AM »
Apparently, he's now "Fr. Macarius"

Well, perhaps the name Macarius was given to him when the OCA tonsured him a Rassophore?

Is it not the custom to call all monks Father in Eastern Orthodox even if they are Rassaphores?  Or should he be called Brother?

He was advertising himself as Fr. Seraphim.  Recently, after the Coptic Church took action against him within the last couple of months, he changed his name to Macarius.  Does that mean he was "retonsured"?
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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2016, 01:27:46 AM »
Apparently, he's now "Fr. Macarius"

Well, perhaps the name Macarius was given to him when the OCA tonsured him a Rassophore?

Is it not the custom to call all monks Father in Eastern Orthodox even if they are Rassaphores?  Or should he be called Brother?

He was advertising himself as Fr. Seraphim.  Recently, after the Coptic Church took action against him within the last couple of months, he changed his name to Macarius.  Does that mean he was "retonsured"?

If he is actively doing something right now, we need to tell the OCA.  My understanding is a clergyman can change his name each time ne is ordained, even to Reader or Psalti, in the Eastern Orthodox Church, but I doubt that's what happened.  Check your PMs.

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2016, 04:15:27 AM »
Quote
This is a summary of the results of the Pope’s investigation into Fr Bishoy Andrawes, as reported to the congregation of St Mark Coptic Orthodox Church, Washington, D.C. by H.E. Metropolitan Serapion and H.G. Bishop Karas in a meeting on 4/2/2016.

Update on Fr Bishoy Andrawes, Atef Aziz and St Mark’s DC

1. Fr Bishoy has been moved to St Mary and St Mercurius in Belleville, New Jersey (www.smandsm.org).

2. The investigation uncovered many other Coptic parishes in North America that have been in contact with Atef Aziz and/or his followers, adopting their teachings. Anba Serapion observed that Atef Aziz seems to be targeting college age youth, young priests and their wives. H.E. will explore the idea of publishing a book about Atef Aziz’s wrong teachings.

3. Anba Serapion has been in touch with the OCA, an Eastern Orthodox jurisdiction where Atef Aziz is currently a monk of the Monastery of St John of San Francisco, but does not reside in the monastery. H.E. met with Archbishop Benjamin of San Francisco and the West (OCA) who had tonsured Atef Aziz as a monk. Archbishop Benjamin told him that he didn’t know about Atef’s history, and that he would recall Atef back to the monastery.

4. Anba Serapion specified the wrong teaching as being extreme asceticism – the goal of the spiritual life should be to discipline our bodies against the passions of the flesh, not to beat our bodies up.

Anba Serapion also wrote to the Metropolitan of the OCA, Tikhon (Mollard), informing him that Atef Aziz was targeting the Coptic youth and that if this continues it will put a strain on the relationship between the Coptic Church and the OCA.

Apart from this public meeting, reliable sources have also informed us that Atef Aziz has been actively bringing his followers from Egypt to America in order to infiltrate Coptic parishes. American disciples of Fr Bishoy are also spreading this spirituality abroad; anecdotally, one youth moved from DC to California to start his own discipleship group there.

Restore the unbelievers; may the schisms of the Church cease. Strip the vanity of the heretics, and count us all in the unity of godliness.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/update-bishoy-andrawes-atef-aziz-st-marks-dc/
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 04:15:42 AM by qawe »
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Offline wgw

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2016, 07:17:53 PM »
Quote
This is a summary of the results of the Pope’s investigation into Fr Bishoy Andrawes, as reported to the congregation of St Mark Coptic Orthodox Church, Washington, D.C. by H.E. Metropolitan Serapion and H.G. Bishop Karas in a meeting on 4/2/2016.

Update on Fr Bishoy Andrawes, Atef Aziz and St Mark’s DC

1. Fr Bishoy has been moved to St Mary and St Mercurius in Belleville, New Jersey (www.smandsm.org).

2. The investigation uncovered many other Coptic parishes in North America that have been in contact with Atef Aziz and/or his followers, adopting their teachings. Anba Serapion observed that Atef Aziz seems to be targeting college age youth, young priests and their wives. H.E. will explore the idea of publishing a book about Atef Aziz’s wrong teachings.

3. Anba Serapion has been in touch with the OCA, an Eastern Orthodox jurisdiction where Atef Aziz is currently a monk of the Monastery of St John of San Francisco, but does not reside in the monastery. H.E. met with Archbishop Benjamin of San Francisco and the West (OCA) who had tonsured Atef Aziz as a monk. Archbishop Benjamin told him that he didn’t know about Atef’s history, and that he would recall Atef back to the monastery.

4. Anba Serapion specified the wrong teaching as being extreme asceticism – the goal of the spiritual life should be to discipline our bodies against the passions of the flesh, not to beat our bodies up.

Anba Serapion also wrote to the Metropolitan of the OCA, Tikhon (Mollard), informing him that Atef Aziz was targeting the Coptic youth and that if this continues it will put a strain on the relationship between the Coptic Church and the OCA.

Apart from this public meeting, reliable sources have also informed us that Atef Aziz has been actively bringing his followers from Egypt to America in order to infiltrate Coptic parishes. American disciples of Fr Bishoy are also spreading this spirituality abroad; anecdotally, one youth moved from DC to California to start his own discipleship group there.

Restore the unbelievers; may the schisms of the Church cease. Strip the vanity of the heretics, and count us all in the unity of godliness.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/update-bishoy-andrawes-atef-aziz-st-marks-dc/

Good.  I am sure the OCA will take appropriate action.

Offline Tonedawg

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2016, 08:24:59 PM »
Wgw, Atef is a monk who has made vows to the monastery that was mentioned in one of the posts,mi believe St. John of San Francisco. Atef should be in that monastery and not outside of it. I've spoken to an OCA priest and that is what he has told me. Sometimes there are weirdos who are let out of their vows and their monasteries for various reasons. The OCA priest that I talked to also told me that he knows of a couple of nut cases, such as Atef. I attend St. Marks in DC, and Metropolitan Serapion told us that Atef was targeting young Coptic priests, their wives, and Coptic youth. I know at least one family that has been a mess, and I'm sure there are more, because of these teachings. There is no doubt about it, Atef should be excommunicated from the OCA, he has no business being in good standing there. He doesn't teach orthodoxy, but his own twisted view of it, which I includes Pentecostal and gnostic teachings. Things have been weird around here for a while, and Atef and his teachings greatly influenced, in a bad way, a lot of people that I personally know.

He is a shady character who doesn't deserve to "sheltered" by anybody. He has spoken out against the Church, calling it dead and dying, a great blasphemy against the body of Christ.
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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2016, 08:38:54 PM »
Also, if I may add, while I know he is a controversial figure, Archbishop Lazar is not necessarily the same person.  He seems to work within the obedience and confines of his Church.

For "Fr." Seraphim/Macarius, he pretty much sounds like the modern-day Montanist more than anything.  He does not seem to have permission from his bishop to do his missions.
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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2016, 10:11:35 PM »
Wgw, Atef is a monk who has made vows to the monastery that was mentioned in one of the posts,mi believe St. John of San Francisco. Atef should be in that monastery and not outside of it. I've spoken to an OCA priest and that is what he has told me. Sometimes there are weirdos who are let out of their vows and their monasteries for various reasons. The OCA priest that I talked to also told me that he knows of a couple of nut cases, such as Atef. I attend St. Marks in DC, and Metropolitan Serapion told us that Atef was targeting young Coptic priests, their wives, and Coptic youth. I know at least one family that has been a mess, and I'm sure there are more, because of these teachings. There is no doubt about it, Atef should be excommunicated from the OCA, he has no business being in good standing there. He doesn't teach orthodoxy, but his own twisted view of it, which I includes Pentecostal and gnostic teachings. Things have been weird around here for a while, and Atef and his teachings greatly influenced, in a bad way, a lot of people that I personally know.

He is a shady character who doesn't deserve to "sheltered" by anybody. He has spoken out against the Church, calling it dead and dying, a great blasphemy against the body of Christ.

If he is doimg this things right now, it sounds like he is on a par with Brother Nathanael; it looks like while Metropolitan Serapion has warned the OCA is sheltering him, you are right, he does not deserve that shelter, and I have no doubt that the OCA will withdraw it as soon as they have time to appropriately respond to the aforementioned letter of the Coptic bishops. 

If he repents, he deserves to be admitted through the gates of repentence of either the OCA or the Copts and sheltered.

Also, if I may add, while I know he is a controversial figure, Archbishop Lazar is not necessarily the same person.  He seems to work within the obedience and confines of his Church.

For "Fr." Seraphim/Macarius, he pretty much sounds like the modern-day Montanist more than anything.  He does not seem to have permission from his bishop to do his missions.

Indeed, Archbishop Lazar Puhalo is obedient, he keeps those opinions which have been rejected to himself and serves the church effectively as a retired bishop, serving the liturgy, engaging in catechesis, and debating with the Aerial Toll Houses people (I can't presume to know who is right; I love Father Seraphim Rose but what happens to the soul after death is etymologocally a bit of a conundrum, to put it mildly, and since toll houses are not official dogma but rather an accepted theologoumemnon, from what I understand, I think that Archbishop Lazar's writings on that subject are a good backup in case any inquiry reads some netodox material on them and falls into despair).

On the other hand, "Father" John Doe, as I propose we call him, since he changes his name so much that one wonders if he is even Afez Aziz, is sneaking his way through the church, pretending false piety and teaching heresy, much like the Arius and his disciples.  His pomp and vanity evokes the protheresiarch Simon Magus; his doctrines blemd Gnosticism and Montanism, and his treachery and faux-asceticism or unsanctioned asceticism evokes Arius, Eusebius of Nicomedia, Encratites, Tatian and Mani, respectively.

If someone decides to supplement the Panarion of St. Epiphanius of Salamis with new volumes, he would surely be included, because even if he repents, as a heresiarch he has spawned a well organized network of disciples and at least one heretical priest who followed him set up a cell of his disciples in Los Angeles; there could be thousands of these people hiding like wolves in sheep's cloathing in the flocks of the Coptic Church; they coukd be on parish councils, they might include clerics.   I believe the Encyclical of Pope Shenouda should probably be reread in all parishes based on his recent activity, or a new encyclical composed by Pope Tawadros, to be read in every Coptic Church around the world and forwarded to all other Orthodox archbishops, warning of this man.

Because it seems to me, based on the facts that have emerged in this thread, that we have the first Orthodox-specific heresiarch to appear recently; the last such groups who dared to do that who were not merely missionaries from a western cult (askde from the edgecase lf Archpriest Sergei Bulgakov), were some of the heretical Russian sects like the Doukhobors and mutilants, and the two heretical schismatic groups ipthat were finally subdued in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in the 19th century (one if whom was, IIRC, tritheistic, and the other, Sabellian).

It need surprise no one however who has walked into a Copric parish like St. Michael's, where I attended for six months or so in 2014, where you have the church filled with well-behaved children learning Coptic, learning to sing in Coptic, and the tiny church which coukd comfortably seat 50 filled to the rafters during the Eucharist, and packed on Saturday Night Vespers mainly for Confession with Abouna, that such a church would be specifically targeted by Satan for infilitration by wicked heresiarchs and for persecution by Islamist terrorists.   Kyrie Eleison.

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2016, 10:16:13 PM »
wo...calm down there buddy...let's not lose our heads in over-demonization.  He's wrong, but don't let his wrongness just throw every single heresy in the book against him.  I said "Montanist" for a reason after looking at some of his videos.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

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Offline Tonedawg

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Re: Dr. Atef Aziz or "Father" Seraphim (Atef Meshreky)
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2016, 06:52:19 PM »
wo...calm down there buddy...let's not lose our heads in over-demonization.  He's wrong, but don't let his wrongness just throw every single heresy in the book against him.  I said "Montanist" for a reason after looking at some of his videos.

There were also some gnostic elements as well Mina! Some individuals that I know were told that the body was sinful and evil, and that nothing mattered in the material world, only the spiritual!
“How needful the human being is of service of the spirit, in an age where materialism, atheism, apostasy and deviant intellectual trends prevail. How needful people are to see Christ in our lives and to smell His sweet fragrance in us." St. Kyrillos (Cyril) VI