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Author Topic: Unity of Antiochians and OCA - Dreaming  (Read 8595 times) Average Rating: 0
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JamesRottnek
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« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2011, 07:44:24 PM »

I know of three Antiochian, one Greek, and one ROCOR parish(es) in Idaho.  There may well be more.
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« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2011, 01:11:37 AM »

I know of three Antiochian, one Greek, and one ROCOR parish(es) in Idaho.  There may well be more.

If anyone has the new Atlas of American Orthodox Christian Churches then we could find out if there are more! lol
I think there is also a .pdf on orthodoxreality.org that has the states and how many churches are there, but I have no clue right now where to find it.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 01:12:54 AM by 88Devin12 » Logged
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« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2011, 10:45:22 PM »

Out of curiosity, why would it really even matter if they merged.

If they are united in Eucharist?

Isn't the Orthodox understanding of the Eucharist that when your receive the body & blood, that you are in 100% communion with every Orthodox Christian Worldwide? (of course "Orthodox" meaning the ones that your jurisdiction is in communion with)

If the real point is the Eucharist and sacraments, the jurisdictional issues really only mean a "churchy", "money", and "property line" issue.  I could not imagine this happening.    However, sure, anything is possible.   But within the same communion, I just don't see the point I guess?? 

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« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2011, 10:49:12 PM »

Out of curiosity, why would it really even matter if they merged.

If they are united in Eucharist?

Isn't the Orthodox understanding of the Eucharist that when your receive the body & blood, that you are in 100% communion with every Orthodox Christian Worldwide? (of course "Orthodox" meaning the ones that your jurisdiction is in communion with)

If the real point is the Eucharist and sacraments, the jurisdictional issues really only mean a "churchy", "money", and "property line" issue.  I could not imagine this happening.    However, sure, anything is possible.   But within the same communion, I just don't see the point I guess??  


Well, for starters, instead of huge dioceses where the bishop is running around constantly and still doesn't get to all the parishes, we can have local compact dioceses where not only is the bishop not running himself into a grave but can reach all his parishes and they can all easily reach him.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 10:50:45 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2012, 03:35:17 PM »

I just saw this map and it reminded me of the above post, for comparison:

Its the population density of the USA in 2000
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« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2012, 10:25:44 PM »

the map has been updated:
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« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2012, 06:42:16 AM »

That would be really nice and all but I honestly doubt it would work out. I've never attended an Antiochian Church and I know very little about the formal relations between the OCA and Antiochian Church, but from what Arab Christians at my Church have told me, the Antiochians do not have very positive thoughts about the OCA, and are generally skeptical of non-Arabs. Now combine this with the fact that the OCA is extremely laid back and made up mostly of western converts and I think you have a bad combination. I had always thought that the OCA and ROCOR were the closest North American jurisdictions and were likely to merge together since they both share a common ancestor (Russian Patriarch).
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« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2012, 07:07:09 AM »

That would be really nice and all but I honestly doubt it would work out. I've never attended an Antiochian Church and I know very little about the formal relations between the OCA and Antiochian Church, but from what Arab Christians at my Church have told me, the Antiochians do not have very positive thoughts about the OCA, and are generally skeptical of non-Arabs. Now combine this with the fact that the OCA is extremely laid back and made up mostly of western converts and I think you have a bad combination. I had always thought that the OCA and ROCOR were the closest North American jurisdictions and were likely to merge together since they both share a common ancestor (Russian Patriarch).
JamesR, I wonder if you're being unduly influenced by the Arabs in your church who may have left the Antiochian church for personal reasons (yes, I realize that's just supposition on my part - you will know better than I). My own small parish is predominantly non-Arab - and the few Arabs that we have are in ethnically mixed marriages or well on the way to local cultural assimilation. We have an excellent relationship with a small OCA parish about 45 minutes away. Their deacon occasionally assists our priest for weddings, funerals, etc. That deacon's brother (and family) is a member of our parish. Experiences will vary. Unity of this sort at the local level will happen long before any formal administrative unity.
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« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2012, 02:15:25 PM »

That would be really nice and all but I honestly doubt it would work out. I've never attended an Antiochian Church and I know very little about the formal relations between the OCA and Antiochian Church, but from what Arab Christians at my Church have told me, the Antiochians do not have very positive thoughts about the OCA, and are generally skeptical of non-Arabs. Now combine this with the fact that the OCA is extremely laid back and made up mostly of western converts and I think you have a bad combination. I had always thought that the OCA and ROCOR were the closest North American jurisdictions and were likely to merge together since they both share a common ancestor (Russian Patriarch).

Arabs are no longer a majority in the Antiochian Archdiocese, and since the 1980s, Antiochian clergy have been about 70 percent non-Arab.
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« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2012, 02:17:58 PM »

That would be really nice and all but I honestly doubt it would work out. I've never attended an Antiochian Church and I know very little about the formal relations between the OCA and Antiochian Church, but from what Arab Christians at my Church have told me, the Antiochians do not have very positive thoughts about the OCA, and are generally skeptical of non-Arabs. Now combine this with the fact that the OCA is extremely laid back and made up mostly of western converts and I think you have a bad combination. I had always thought that the OCA and ROCOR were the closest North American jurisdictions and were likely to merge together since they both share a common ancestor (Russian Patriarch).
JamesR, I wonder if you're being unduly influenced by the Arabs in your church who may have left the Antiochian church for personal reasons (yes, I realize that's just supposition on my part - you will know better than I). My own small parish is predominantly non-Arab - and the few Arabs that we have are in ethnically mixed marriages or well on the way to local cultural assimilation. We have an excellent relationship with a small OCA parish about 45 minutes away. Their deacon occasionally assists our priest for weddings, funerals, etc. That deacon's brother (and family) is a member of our parish. Experiences will vary. Unity of this sort at the local level will happen long before any formal administrative unity.

No, he's just making stuff up as he goes along based on his own imagination and what he reads on the internet.
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« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2012, 02:35:25 PM »

I personally hope for it but I doubt it will be any time soon. There is the supposed general council sometime in 2013, but there is too much ego, too much money, too much property, and really, too much loyalty to the jurisdiction to clean it all up in one meeting.

In reference to the arabs, I really think its not so much arabs, or even laity for that matter. Its the leadership.

PP
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« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2012, 08:46:12 PM »

That would be really nice and all but I honestly doubt it would work out. I've never attended an Antiochian Church and I know very little about the formal relations between the OCA and Antiochian Church, but from what Arab Christians at my Church have told me, the Antiochians do not have very positive thoughts about the OCA, and are generally skeptical of non-Arabs. Now combine this with the fact that the OCA is extremely laid back and made up mostly of western converts and I think you have a bad combination. I had always thought that the OCA and ROCOR were the closest North American jurisdictions and were likely to merge together since they both share a common ancestor (Russian Patriarch).
JamesR, I wonder if you're being unduly influenced by the Arabs in your church who may have left the Antiochian church for personal reasons (yes, I realize that's just supposition on my part - you will know better than I). My own small parish is predominantly non-Arab - and the few Arabs that we have are in ethnically mixed marriages or well on the way to local cultural assimilation. We have an excellent relationship with a small OCA parish about 45 minutes away. Their deacon occasionally assists our priest for weddings, funerals, etc. That deacon's brother (and family) is a member of our parish. Experiences will vary. Unity of this sort at the local level will happen long before any formal administrative unity.

No, he's just making stuff up as he goes along based on his own imagination and what he reads on the internet.

Boy am I glad that I wasn't drinking anything when I read that.  It would have cost me a laptop.
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« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2012, 09:22:56 PM »

I personally hope for it but I doubt it will be any time soon. There is the supposed general council sometime in 2013, but there is too much ego, too much money, too much property, and really, too much loyalty to the jurisdiction to clean it all up in one meeting.

In reference to the arabs, I really think its not so much arabs, or even laity for that matter. Its the leadership.

PP

Yes, but there have been 50 years of meetings leading up to the one meeting.
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« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2012, 09:55:49 AM »

I personally hope for it but I doubt it will be any time soon. There is the supposed general council sometime in 2013, but there is too much ego, too much money, too much property, and really, too much loyalty to the jurisdiction to clean it all up in one meeting.

In reference to the arabs, I really think its not so much arabs, or even laity for that matter. Its the leadership.

PP

Yes, but there have been 50 years of meetings leading up to the one meeting.
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