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Hamartolos
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« on: August 17, 2009, 07:33:20 PM »

Hi All,

This Sunday our priest will be out of town and a "Typika with with communion" will be served.  The research I've done says that of the differing forms of Typika, that in which communion is served, is done with a deacon.  I also read that this is not a universally accepted practice among Orthodoxy.  Is this true?  Also, what exactly does the Typika consist of?  Thanks!
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2009, 08:09:24 PM »

Basically, the Typika is the (psalm-centric) beginning of the full, festal Divine Liturgy.

When it's done alone (at least in a monastic setting), it adds a few things to the Typika as chanted during the Divine Liturgy and goes like this: It's all of Psalms 102 (Bless the Lord, O my Soul), 145 (Praise the Lord, O my Soul), O Only Begotten Son, & the Beatitudes. Then it skips to the Creed, the Our Father, the hymns of the day, then Psalm 33 and the "Through the prayers..."

That's basically it. A few other hymns here or there. Sometimes people tack Scripture readings on to it, but I've never actually attended one with Holy Communion. Suppose it is possible, but, in that case, the Deacon would really just be communing people from the Reserve Sacrament -- as if visiting people at the hospital -- as an add-on ceremony.

Edit: Adding Holy Communion doesn't make sense according to the original purpose of the Typika (which was used in monasteries on days where there wasn't a full Divine Liturgy with communion, especially during Great Lent, wherein normal Divine Liturgies are not allowed on weekdays), but it makes sense in modern parochial settings, if the priest is away and the Bishop gives his blessing. Makes more sense to bring in one of the retired clergy from the diocese (that's what we do), but that's not always practical in areas without much Orthodox presence.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 08:20:24 PM by pensateomnia » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2009, 08:24:41 PM »

Hi All,

This Sunday our priest will be out of town and a "Typika with with communion" will be served.  The research I've done says that of the differing forms of Typika, that in which communion is served, is done with a deacon.  I also read that this is not a universally accepted practice among Orthodoxy.  Is this true?  Also, what exactly does the Typika consist of?  Thanks!

There are 7 times 70 ways of doing Typika as a Reader's service.

Here is a copy of the Typika (Obednitsa) as it is often done in the Russian Church without a priest.

As you can see, it is mainly things taken from the regular Liturgy.
 
The various parts of Typika are sung in the usual way as they are sung at a normal Liturgy.  But if you don't know the melodies, then reading them would be quite OK.
 
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/hours_typica.htm
 
Keep up the good work!
 
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Hamartolos
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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2009, 08:29:18 PM »

Thanks guys,

On our bulletin it says "Typika with Communion"..so I'm assuming the two are ordinarily separate?
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« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2009, 10:35:37 PM »

Typica with communion makes no sense and I don't know why this practice is sanctioned in our Archdiocese.  The Liturgy is the celebration of all of God's saving work here on earth and culminates, after that prepartion, with the distribution of the Body and Blood of Christ.

Typica is routinely said by monastics after the ninth hour (or sixth hour on Saturdays) and includes the appointed scriptures of the day.  Also, the typica service should be spoken, never chanted.
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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2009, 10:47:28 PM »

It makes sense in some instances.  Our priest was in charge of a mission an hour and a half away from our parish.  He would serve liturgy at our parish and once a month, he would travel to the mission with the consecrated gifts.  They would serve Typika w/ communion, since he could not serve liturgy again that day.  That way, at least, the people there were offered the holy gifts once a month. 
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2010, 06:12:17 PM »

An excerpt from "The Typicon of the Orthodox Church’s Divine Services: The Orthodox Christian and the Church Situation Today."

"According to our Typicon, all the Divine Services of the daily cycle — apart, needless to say, from the Divine Liturgy and other Church sacraments — may be performed also by persons not ordained to priestly rank. This has been widely done in the practice of prayer by all monasteries, sketes, and desert-dwellers in whose midst there are no monks clothed in the rank of priest. And up until the most recent time this was to be seen also....where in case of the illness or absence of the priest, the faithful themselves, without a priest, read and sang the Nocturnes, and Matins, and the Hours, and Vespers, and Compline, and in place of the Divine Liturgy, the Typica.

"Public prayer, as none other, firmly unites the faithful. And so, in all those parishes where there is no permanent priest, it is absolutely necessary not merely to permit, but indeed to recommend to the faithful that they come together on Sundays and feast days in church or even in homes, where there is no church, in order to perform together such public prayer according to the established order of Divine Services."

The following link provides resources to the primary texts of various Typicons for comparison:

http://www.synaxis.info/synaxis/6_typicon/survey.html

+Cosmos
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 06:13:41 PM by Cosmos » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2010, 06:32:58 PM »

Church isn't about what we want it is about the community.  If the priest instructed for that service to take place then that's his decision as the priest the father of the flock. And further I'm sure he was following protocol set forth by his Bishop who is the leader of your parish..the priest is his representative.  So relax and remember Christianity is about putting others first not causing an uproar because the individual isn't externally satisfied. 
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2010, 06:40:48 PM »

Probably a priest or a deacon will be there as I can't imagine a Bishop allowing the laity to enter he altar ready the gifts and distribute them.  An ordained subdeacon
..not a reader blessed to wear a stole is the point in priestly orders where a man can even touch the holy table or sacred vessels.  Certainly a subdeacon couldn't distribute communion at the typically as he can't go through the royal doors and distribute.  Yes one jurisdiction in the states allows subdeacons to distribute communion but as far as I know the aoaa doesn't.   So no I wouldn't worry a. Priest or deacon will be there if there is communion.
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2010, 06:48:55 PM »

Who allows subdeacons to distribute Communion?
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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2010, 08:53:47 PM »

Who allows subdeacons to distribute Communion?


   The American carpatho Russian Orthodox diocese
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2010, 01:15:00 PM »

Has anyone heard of people reading the Typica service at home as part of a daily rule?
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2010, 09:07:01 PM »

Edit: Adding Holy Communion doesn't make sense according to the original purpose of the Typika (which was used in monasteries on days where there wasn't a full Divine Liturgy with communion, especially during Great Lent, wherein normal Divine Liturgies are not allowed on weekdays), but it makes sense in modern parochial settings, if the priest is away and the Bishop gives his blessing. Makes more sense to bring in one of the retired clergy from the diocese (that's what we do), but that's not always practical in areas without much Orthodox presence.

You need to recheck your research.  The original purpose of Typika according to the Horologion of the Monastery of St. Sabbas was for communing from the Presanctified Gifts after the Ninth Hour.  Holy Communion was dropped from Typika when the service was adopted by the Studite monks of Constantinople where Vesperal Presanctified was already in place.
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2010, 09:10:48 PM »

Has anyone heard of people reading the Typica service at home as part of a daily rule?

Yes, I have heard of it. Yes, I have tried it. No, I wasn't consistent. Yes, I discontinued the practice.
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« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2010, 11:03:37 AM »

Has anyone heard of people reading the Typica service at home as part of a daily rule?

Yes, I have heard of it. Yes, I have tried it. No, I wasn't consistent. Yes, I discontinued the practice.

Thanks. I know that monasteries have daily liturgy/typica and thought, why not a domestic home time permitting.
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« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2010, 12:00:25 PM »

Edit: Adding Holy Communion doesn't make sense according to the original purpose of the Typika (which was used in monasteries on days where there wasn't a full Divine Liturgy with communion, especially during Great Lent, wherein normal Divine Liturgies are not allowed on weekdays), but it makes sense in modern parochial settings, if the priest is away and the Bishop gives his blessing. Makes more sense to bring in one of the retired clergy from the diocese (that's what we do), but that's not always practical in areas without much Orthodox presence.

You need to recheck your research.  The original purpose of Typika according to the Horologion of the Monastery of St. Sabbas was for communing from the Presanctified Gifts after the Ninth Hour.  Holy Communion was dropped from Typika when the service was adopted by the Studite monks of Constantinople where Vesperal Presanctified was already in place.

Is that in Sin. gr. 1096, or some early modern edition? I would be curious where that appears in the manuscripts.

While very interesting, this is more a question of arcane historical interest than anything related to current usage, either by lineage or actual practice, don't you think? A (12th? 13th? century) manuscript attestation that calls for a Typika with Presanctified Gifts after the 9th hour isn't some kind of precedent for one held on a Sunday morning. That actually seems contrary to Sabbaitic (or Studite or Evergetian, etc.) principles, to be honest.
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« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2010, 05:49:17 PM »

Who allows subdeacons to distribute Communion?

The American carpatho Russian Orthodox diocese

Must be in isolated cases (?).  I admit to not attending all that many services in ACROD, but in the 30-35 that I have, I have never seen a subdeacon distribute the Holy Gifts.
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