Author Topic: Liturgical wine  (Read 2280 times)

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Offline mike

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Liturgical wine
« on: August 16, 2009, 06:37:07 AM »
Where, whan and why did RCC switch from red sweet wine to white dry wine?

Offline Altar Server

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2009, 08:47:17 AM »
They didn't it just depends on the parish
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Offline mike

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2009, 08:51:58 AM »
I know they could use any grape wine, but white is far more popular that the red one. I'm curious, why.

Offline username!

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2009, 01:11:35 PM »
Where, whan and why did RCC switch from red sweet wine to white dry wine?

Not every Roman Catholic Church uses white wine.  However those suffering from Red wine headaches http://winegeeks.com/articles/4 may be the reason some churches shifted to white wine.  White wine does not give the headache red wine does. 

Offline mike

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2009, 02:18:35 PM »
But only RC Priests drink wine and I think in moderated amount. How can the headache be the issue?

 The link is broken :P

BTW After drinking samohonka your head also does not hurt ;)

Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2009, 04:26:27 PM »
I have only once experienced white wine at a Roman Catholic Church, every other time it has been red.  I guess like other said, just depends on the parishes.
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Offline coptickev

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2009, 01:19:16 PM »
I know they could use any grape wine, but white is far more popular that the red one. I'm curious, why.

I've been told it's so that the altar linen doesn't get stained.

Offline Athanasios

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2009, 10:02:53 AM »
I've only encountered white wine once. Thus from my experience, it is certainly not the norm. While we can see in red wine a fuller symbol of it being blood, there is nothing illict about white wine. It usually comes down to the preferences of the Priest celebrant. The canons of the Catholic Church state:

Quote
Can.  924 ยง3. The wine must be natural from the fruit of the vine and not spoiled.

Thus, it must be made from only grapes -- no other fruit (e.g., no apple wine). But, there is no requirement on the type of grape, it could be red, it could be white, it could be a fine nebbiolo or a wonderful blend of cabernet and sangiovese, or even chardonnay.

It must be natural. That means no artificial sweeteners such as honey or can sugar. It also means no chemicals for balancing.

It must be unspoiled -- no vinegar.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 10:04:39 AM by Athanasios »
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Offline mike

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2009, 01:19:47 PM »
Does Oriental Orthodox Church use red or whithe wine? Or both types?

It looks like white wine is so popular in Poland only.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 01:20:18 PM by mike »

Offline coptickev

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2009, 02:34:52 PM »
Does Oriental Orthodox Church use red or whithe wine? Or both types?

It looks like white wine is so popular in Poland only.
No.
I've only see white wine used in Western Churches


Offline Father H

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2009, 08:07:03 PM »
Pre-Vatican II usage was always to use white wine.   Vatican II allowed to return (by the option of the bishop, or in many dioceses left up to the priest) to the more ancient usage of red wine.   It has nothing to do with people getting headaches. 

Offline Elisha

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2009, 09:24:17 PM »
Anyone know if we have a decent discussion on this in the general Orthodox threads?  I was thinking we could elaborate from here.  The old standby to use in Orthodox parishes is actually.....Manishevitz.

Some parishoners I know (now divorced) who both worked in the wine industry once made a large batch of Communion wine from Black Muscat.  A panel of wine snobby priests said it was the best.  Unfortunately it has been gone for a few years.  Evidently it fared the best when mixed with warm water.

Offline LBK

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Re: Liturgical wine
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 12:19:55 AM »
Pre-Vatican II usage was always to use white wine.   Vatican II allowed to return (by the option of the bishop, or in many dioceses left up to the priest) to the more ancient usage of red wine.   It has nothing to do with people getting headaches. 

I find this rather difficult to believe. Not far from where I live, there is a Jesuit monastery which, for more than 150 years, has produced sacramental wines, as well as conventional table wines, and still does. Their sacramental range, which is also drawn from by some of the Orthodox churches in the area, has always been exclusively red varieties, never whites.
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