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Rosehip
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« Reply #90 on: August 08, 2009, 02:12:35 PM »

Roseship

I haven't seen a pic of you like others on here but I don't need to. (Although I'm always curious as to what posters on here look like) I hate to see you going through this and what a toll it seems to be taking on you. My sister is back in the dating scene after years out of it. She has meet a number of guys though online dating sites. I hear her tales and the feelings she experiences are not unlike what you have described. I think there is a good reason these guys are still single. No woman in her right mind would put up with them. Guys who are hung up on exes or who say cruel things... you are too wonderful to waste your time on them. Please don't take what they say and do to heart. I agree, get rid of the list. It isn't healthy for you to dwell on those things.

The online men are terrible. Very cruel and rude. However, most of the men who have treated me like dirt are actually already in relationships. The man who completely destroyed my life a couple  years ago and who was a complete jerk, has, ironically, long since found someone. I really can't believe how easy it seems for others to find partners. And it is shocking for me to discover you can hardly find any men who believe in Biblical Christian principles of saving oneself in purity for one's future spouse. To me, this was always a no-brainer. Intimacy is sacred and precious and only for one's spouse, within marriage.
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« Reply #91 on: August 08, 2009, 02:28:25 PM »

Just a thought, but whereabouts do you live? That could play a key in the situation.
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« Reply #92 on: August 08, 2009, 03:37:19 PM »

Personally I find modesty more attractive than anything else. Whenever I see women that dress to get attention,

Selam

 

Out of interest, how do you (guys) know they are dressing to get your attention?  Smiley Some women do dress to draw attention. ., but some women are still little girls inside and little girls love to dress up *cough. .like me  Smiley*  (if I were in a relationship, or married, I would dress to please my husband). On a serious note, how do guys tell the difference between an attention-seeking woman and a women who merely dresses for herself?

Actually, I do not think that if a woman dresses to get attention, it means that she is necessarily insecure. It may be "in the eyes of a beholder." My wife sometimes dresses to get attention, but she is very secure, and I think it's those men (or women), who pay too much attention to her when she is dressed to get attention, who are insecure.

You sound like the perfect non-contolling husband, Heorhij. Some men would mind if their wives were dressing to attract attention. However, I am curious. . Do you not want her to dress solely for your attention?   Wink

You know, I never really thought about it. In my youth, I was what you can call a total "nerd" - I was all in books and science, and I had very little perception of the "real world." So when I began to date my future wife, and when we married, and for a good number of years after marriage, I never paid much attention to how she dresses or who might be paying attention to her. She even teased me, saying, oh boy, why in the world you are never jealous - look, these men are just dying for me, and it does not bother you? And it honestly, sincerely did not bother me. This same "nerdiness," detachment from the "real life" also prevented me (unfortunately) from noticing myself, how great my wife looks, how attractive she is. I guess I just took her for granted, and it hurt her, and I am sorry for that. Now, when I am already 51 1/2, I "grew up," and I pay a whole lot more attention to her; but I still do not want her to dress "solely for my attention." It's perfectly OK with me when others notice her. 
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« Reply #93 on: August 08, 2009, 04:03:42 PM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 
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« Reply #94 on: August 08, 2009, 04:05:57 PM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 

BV and I agree, Rosehip, so it has to be true. Tongue
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« Reply #95 on: August 08, 2009, 04:51:47 PM »

Roseship

I haven't seen a pic of you like others on here but I don't need to. (Although I'm always curious as to what posters on here look like) I hate to see you going through this and what a toll it seems to be taking on you. My sister is back in the dating scene after years out of it. She has meet a number of guys though online dating sites. I hear her tales and the feelings she experiences are not unlike what you have described. I think there is a good reason these guys are still single. No woman in her right mind would put up with them. Guys who are hung up on exes or who say cruel things... you are too wonderful to waste your time on them. Please don't take what they say and do to heart. I agree, get rid of the list. It isn't healthy for you to dwell on those things.

The online men are terrible. Very cruel and rude.

Well... once again, I think we need to be very careful about making sweeping generalizations. Online men are NOT terrible, cruel or rude. Some online men are these things but not all. As for Marat's sister and her experiences online... once again... they're HER experiences and not everyone's. Anytime you make a definitive statement, be careful that you are not using a broad brush stroke. For instance, I met my wife online of all places! Really? Uh huh! We just sort of bumped into one another on this forum and got to know one another for six months (chat, e-mails, telephone calls) before we actually met in person. Had we actually met in real life from the git-go, either one of us might have discounted the other for a variety of physical reasons. BUT we sort of fell in love with one another before actually meeting (as difficult as that might sound), we met... our love deepened... it is now nine years later and we're happily married. In fact, we're preparing for our fifth visit to Hawaii to celebrate that blessed day. I know of several who have met their current spouses online (some on OrthodoxCircle, some on other forums) and had no real issues.

Sure, there are jerks out there but there are also people just like yourself (myself) looking for love and companionship.
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« Reply #96 on: August 08, 2009, 05:23:49 PM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 

Like Ialmisry, I actually do not find her all that beautiful on the outside, too. She has strange, unkind eyes.
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« Reply #97 on: August 08, 2009, 05:34:48 PM »

She (Paris Hilton) wears far too much makeup. I once saw a picture of her without it and decided she is actually one of those girls who looks better without.

Douglas, I'm sorry, but I've went out with almost hundreds of online men. I've corresponded with this last particular man online for a little over a year before meeting him last week. There have been a couple good men, it is true, but they constituted only a tiny percentage. I've always been very generous about other people, always thinking I was the unworthy, not-good-enough person-always harsher and more judgmental towards myself than towards others, so I am not saying this to be cantankerous. A man whom I met online three years ago literally destroyed my life in a terrible way.

Another problem with online men is that they are chatting with many women simultaneously and to them you are nothing-there are hundreds more out there-you mean literally nothing to them at all. Now, when I was young and all my friends were dating, they did it the natural way and once they were dating, their boyfriends barely even looked at, or spoke to, other girls. They were taught from young up to be loyal and faithful to their girlfriends and wives.

I happen to be one of those people who simply cannot relax and be trusting when I know a man is not loving and cherishing me as I do him. If I know he is chatting with hundreds of others behind my back and is not at all serious about me, then it's too much for me to deal with-especially when I've never, ever had the experience of being loved and cherished by a man whom I love and care for.
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« Reply #98 on: August 08, 2009, 05:43:47 PM »

Another problem I've had with many of these men I've met online is that when we meet up for coffee etc., many of them spend the whole time they're with me, openly checking out other women, even turning and staring with open mouths as some other girl walks by while you are speaking. This behaviour is enough to cause you to commit suicide, believe me.
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« Reply #99 on: August 08, 2009, 06:04:11 PM »

I think, that, if someone cares about expensive clothing  etc. and, even more, if sb demands expensive vanities clothing etc., is certainly not the one(laughing).  Smiley

It's true, that a lot of people nowadays are completely vain regarding their beliefs, which are depicted in the their ....whole lifestyle, of course. Even in Greece, in which we had neved had Capitalist "values" being regarded as sth special or sth that stems from tradition of a kind. I mean consumerism, utilitarianism (in the "vulgar" sense), materialism etc.

And personally, the less "ornaments" and decoration a young woman, let's say, has the more I tend to regard her as a sister in Christ and appreciate her, with all the significance.

But it is important, that the key to true bliss in the true, i.e. Christian sense, is that we shouldn't care about whether someone loves us or adores us and so forth. Love does not ask its own. When you love another person, you are already complete internally...  Smiley
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« Reply #100 on: August 08, 2009, 07:52:57 PM »






 In my youth, I was what you can call a total "nerd" - I was all in books and science, and I had very little perception of the "real world." This same "nerdiness," detachment from the "real life". .


Try not to beat yourself up too much - a detachment from  "real life" and emotions comes with the territory in male scientists.  Smiley 



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Also, it is a well know fact. .when it comes to reading women's minds, men are complete and utter illiterates.  Tongue
 
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It's perfectly OK with me when others notice her. 


On a serious note. . .

Once again, you seem like a very secure person, Heorhij. I truly believe if we are to find true happiness, we must look deep within ourselves; we must accept ourselves exactly as we are - true happiness and confidence comes from within. Feelings of jealousy and insecurity are a sign of deep unhappiness and fear. Of course, on the one hand there is taking sensible responsibility for what God has given us and an unbalanced obsession based on the world's criteria - there needs to be a healthy balance as "self esteem at either end of the spectrum" is not healthy.
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« Reply #101 on: August 08, 2009, 08:00:23 PM »




 I truly believe if we are to find true happiness, we must look deep within ourselves; we must accept ourselves exactly as we are - true happiness and confidence comes from within. Feelings of jealousy and insecurity are a sign of deep unhappiness and fear. Of course, on the one hand there is taking sensible responsibility for what God has given us and an unbalanced obsession based on the world's criteria - there needs to be a healthy balance as "self esteem at either end of the spectrum" is not healthy.

Excellent advice. There's much wisdom packed into these few lines. Smiley
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« Reply #102 on: August 08, 2009, 08:05:08 PM »

And if we accept ourselves, but others are constantly rejecting us? What then? How does one come to terms with this rejection which impacts our entire life? The difference between having been allowed to marry and have children and be a homemaker or a life of losing dream after dream??? I really don't think anyone here who so easily gets married at the drop of the hat without having to have been alone for decades simply doesn't understand the grief and loss involved.
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« Reply #103 on: August 08, 2009, 08:17:51 PM »

I happen to be one of those people who simply cannot relax and be trusting when I know a man is not loving and cherishing me as I do him. If I know he is chatting with hundreds of others behind my back and is not at all serious about me, then it's too much for me to deal with-especially when I've never, ever had the experience of being loved and cherished by a man whom I love and care for.

Oh my, I really do not know about this world of on-line "relationships" - like I say to my students, I am a dinosaur who was shaped in the USSR of the 1970-s - 1980-s where computers were not a regular part of our lives; but I can imagine how hurtful it is to a good, honest, sincere, pure person like you, Rosehip, to come to the understanding that these lonely men are "talking" to scores of "girls," anticipating that "something will work out..." I kind of "peeked" into this world (my bad), in 1998-2000, when my wife and I were temporarily separated for job-searching reasons, and we grew angry and frustrated with each other, and our marriage was all but shattered; - and I have a hunch that it's tough....

What hurts me, honestly, is that some of these "online-talking" men might be professed Christians... and yes, I can imagine that they talk a lot to various "girls," casting a broad net. It's all self-serving perhaps, or most of it is.

Something will work out still, dear sister, I just know it. I am praying for you every day anyway and I know that some others (people better than I) are praying for you, too.

Best wishes and prayers,

G.
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« Reply #104 on: August 08, 2009, 08:28:04 PM »

And if we accept ourselves, but others are constantly rejecting us? What then? How does one come to terms with this rejection which impacts our entire life? The difference between having been allowed to marry and have children and be a homemaker or a life of losing dream after dream??? I really don't think anyone here who so easily gets married at the drop of the hat without having to have been alone for decades simply doesn't understand the grief and loss involved.

I am one of those, I know! I have been blessed with a wife and a child and a wonderful family of in-laws; and all that was not "just," - because I know that I do not deserve all that! And yes, in all honesty, I think about people who are not blessed the way I am, but I realize that I cannot experience what they experience...

Rosehip, dear sis, I just hope and look forward to the day when we ALL come together, married and single and divorced and remarried and whatever-whatever-whatever... whatever, and be together, rewarded, happy, blessed, blissful... and we will hug the kids who are not "my" or "yours" or "theirs," but the kids who are all "ours," and we will sing with joy, and dance, and sport all the best and most beautiful artistically designed clothes, and be what we all really are meant, by our God, to be...
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« Reply #105 on: August 08, 2009, 08:36:55 PM »

People only hurt you because you let them, Rosehip; it's time to put a stop to it, sister, as I say, you are worth much more than this. Give, love, share, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out - who gives a monkey's. . anyway? - but make sure you have plenty of fun along the way . Whatever you do don't panic as in such situations one is likely to just accept any situation (it is indeed easier to push people away instead of risking a new relationship or give up completely). It is all in God's hands and I know He'll continue to bring you His peace. Stay close to your friends and Spiritual Father.

Catherine has some jolly good advice. Rosehip, I have found that too many people - online and in real life - are control freaks. They think it their right to express any opinion they so wish about anyone else, about what one reads, what one wears, what one thinks; but when the compliment is returned, they crumble into whining messes; shocked that anyone could stand up to them. I'm not suggesting that you learn to give as good as you get, but it's probably time to draw on some inner resolve and truly "not give a hoot" what people think or say about you. I know that you are looking for a companion, but as far as I know, there's never been an easy way to do that. But if you allow yourself to be vulnerable in this process, you will continue to be disheartened and hurt. Don't let shallow people do that to you. 
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« Reply #106 on: August 08, 2009, 08:39:20 PM »

Dear Catherine and Riddikulus (and everyone else):

Please forgive my judgmental term "Babylon trollops." You are correct that this is not very Christian language, and I humbly accept the reprimand. Sometimes my fire spirit and poetic tongue get in the way of Christian charity. Thanks for pointing this out, and I'll try to do better in the future. Our Lord loves these "trollops," and thus I should love them too. (But in a much different way than I used to.)Embarrassed

Selam

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« Reply #107 on: August 08, 2009, 09:02:29 PM »

And if we accept ourselves, but others are constantly rejecting us? What then? How does one come to terms with this rejection which impacts our entire life? The difference between having been allowed to marry and have children and be a homemaker or a life of losing dream after dream??? I really don't think anyone here who so easily gets married at the drop of the hat without having to have been alone for decades simply doesn't understand the grief and loss involved.

Rosehip, the stuffing has been knocked out of you (to put it mildly). These feelings or struggles are perfectly normal. On the subject of pain, loss and rejection - how many times have I been there? - I relate to what you say (again) as we have much in common (I recently walked away from a very abusive relationship, for example - I suffered mental abuse, verbal abuse, jealousy, control games -  I gave my whole self and my whole soul and he, basically, treated me like dirt. There is no "I am sorry," no remorse). God does fill us with peace, we have a laugh and a joke, we make the most of life, but some wounds may stay with us even if we take them to Christ, that is, the emotions, or thoughts, return now and then. The Christian life is not always easy (in the words of Leonard Cohen. ."Love is not a victory march":-s) and all Christians realise that the carrying of their own cross, pain, suffering is part of  life. Jesus, of course, holds our hand, but we have emotions which we cannot just switch off easily. I am sure Christ can see the bigger picture and He does bring good out of difficult situations. In hindsight, I am glad that it all happened that way  because I look at my spiritual progress from then to now. The worst feeling in the world is loneliness - I hope you have good friends and lots of support. I was in a very strange place for quite a while; I became rather cold and kept my emotional distance from everyone. Anyway, to cut a long story short, I have decided. . I am not going to allow others to make me hard and cold. Try to not become cynical and disheartened as you have still got a lot of time to find the right person - God-willing. I know God is with you, keep trusting Him. You are in my prayers.
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« Reply #108 on: August 08, 2009, 09:17:31 PM »

And if we accept ourselves, but others are constantly rejecting us? What then? How does one come to terms with this rejection which impacts our entire life? The difference between having been allowed to marry and have children and be a homemaker or a life of losing dream after dream??? I really don't think anyone here who so easily gets married at the drop of the hat without having to have been alone for decades simply doesn't understand the grief and loss involved.

Rosehip, there are no guarantees with this life. Perhaps many, many people get married easily and do all the things that you have dreams to do, but many, many of those same people are turning up in court with destroyed relationships and lives, bitter ongoing battles and heartbroken kids. Marriage isn't a guarantee that life will be a dream; in fact I know married people who are breaking their necks to get out of their situations; to be single again. Often they are women who married without having acheived self-definition or individuality of character. They wish they could turn back the clock and become the people they long to be; instead of some kind of extension of their husband's choices. Marriage, to them, has prevented them from being *real people*. They had imagined that having a partner would somehow complete them, but it didn't.

I know you want a shot at marriage; and I pray you get the chance. But perhaps finding yourself; defining yourself; being assured of yourself might be the most important issue at this point of your life. As Catherine has already said; who gives a monkey's what other people think about you. What is important is what you know about yourself, how comfortable you are with yourself.

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« Reply #109 on: August 09, 2009, 02:47:19 AM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 

Like Ialmisry, I actually do not find her all that beautiful on the outside, too. She has strange, unkind eyes.

Now now Heorhij. Remember that you are quick to condemn me for being judgmental. Why pick on poor Paris? Although I agree with your assessment, I doubt if you would have allowed me to make the same remarks. Just saying. Wink

Selam
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« Reply #110 on: August 09, 2009, 02:54:18 AM »

Another problem I've had with many of these men I've met online is that when we meet up for coffee etc., many of them spend the whole time they're with me, openly checking out other women, even turning and staring with open mouths as some other girl walks by while you are speaking. This behaviour is enough to cause you to commit suicide, believe me.

Don't speak such things my dear sister!!! Our Lord loves you just as you are. Never let the opinions of fools determine your self worth or your fate.

I know it sounds trite, but if we seek our contentment in Christ Himself then the other things will follow. "Delight yourself in the Lord, and He shall give you the desires of your heart." [Psalm 37:4]

Selam
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« Reply #111 on: August 10, 2009, 02:23:28 AM »

Hey--These look like Midwestern women!  The kind of women I see most around here and fit in with the most.  Cheesy


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« Reply #112 on: August 10, 2009, 04:12:46 AM »

I'm wondering what your feelings are about women's clothing, hairstyles etc.
They don't suit me.

Seriously though, men have a different way of noticing things like hairstyles and dress which is, basically, not to notice them.
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« Reply #113 on: August 10, 2009, 05:53:42 AM »

(hugs Rose) It's ok, love! You may feel alone in this pain, which is what the Devil wants, but you're not carrying your cross alone! If you dressed like the women that these men oggle, you would be throwing away your dignity. A woman was not meant to be stared at like a T-bone steak. You once told me that you used to wear hijab. Could you start wearing it again? The worthy man will see you for you, although it seems godly-acting men are going the way of the dinosaurs. Maybe....someone here might smile at you?  Wink angel
You come off as very gentle, very modest.
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« Reply #114 on: August 10, 2009, 06:07:57 AM »

No matter how pretty a woman is on the outside, it is the heart and soul that will determine her real beauty. I know women who are beautiful on the outside, but ugly on the inside, and vice versa. (And I know some beautiful inside & outside). I guess as you get older you become more wiser (supposedly), and sure, looks are nice, but they fade with time, but a good heart and soul is long lasting.
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« Reply #115 on: August 10, 2009, 10:17:24 AM »

although it seems godly-acting men are going the way of the dinosaurs.


Here we go again with the generalizations. Godly acting men (whatever that actually means) are NOT going the way of the dinosaur anymore than women. It's one thing to sympathize with Rosehip and to offer her prayer support and encouragement and it's quite another to make derogatory remarks about men which is totally uncalled for. Let's show some restraint as well as exercise some common sense in this discussion.
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« Reply #116 on: August 10, 2009, 10:24:35 AM »

although it seems godly-acting men are going the way of the dinosaurs.


Here we go again with the generalizations. Godly acting men (whatever that actually means) are NOT going the way of the dinosaur anymore than women. It's one thing to sympathize with Rosehip and to offer her prayer support and encouragement and it's quite another to make derogatory remarks about men which is totally uncalled for. Let's show some restraint as well as exercise some common sense in this discussion.

I agree.

Selam
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« Reply #117 on: August 10, 2009, 10:38:20 AM »


I would agree.  There are some pretty rotten women out there, as well!

Rosehip,  you simply have to have faith that if God wishes for you to find a mate, you will - when the time is right. 
Don't worry so much about it.  You still have lots of "time".

As for dressing - dress the way that makes YOU feel good. 

Go to places that you enjoy.
If you love art, hang out at the art museums.  If you love to read, spend time at the bookstore. 

I hope you find what you are looking for, however, keep in mind that marriage isn't always "perfect" and sometimes isn't what's best for you.

It might be God wants to use you in some other way.

Don't push it.  Don't give up, but, don't make it the single focus and goal of your life, otherwise, you might be greatly disappointed.

My mother always told me to be happy, at whatever juncture I find myself at in life.  Depend on God and yourself.  Don't look for a man to make your life "easy".  Expect to live on your own, and if God so wills to send you a man, than he is just the frosting on your cake.

However, you can live on cake, alone, without the frosting.   Fewer calories!   Cheesy

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« Reply #118 on: August 10, 2009, 10:58:34 AM »


I would agree.  There are some pretty rotten women out there, as well!

Rosehip,  you simply have to have faith that if God wishes for you to find a mate, you will - when the time is right. 
Don't worry so much about it.  You still have lots of "time".

As for dressing - dress the way that makes YOU feel good. 

Go to places that you enjoy.
If you love art, hang out at the art museums.  If you love to read, spend time at the bookstore. 

I hope you find what you are looking for, however, keep in mind that marriage isn't always "perfect" and sometimes isn't what's best for you.

It might be God wants to use you in some other way.

Don't push it.  Don't give up, but, don't make it the single focus and goal of your life, otherwise, you might be greatly disappointed.

My mother always told me to be happy, at whatever juncture I find myself at in life.  Depend on God and yourself.  Don't look for a man to make your life "easy".  Expect to live on your own, and if God so wills to send you a man, than he is just the frosting on your cake.

However, you can live on cake, alone, without the frosting.   Fewer calories!   Cheesy


Excellent wisdom!

Contentment is such a difficult thing to obtain. I think if we are all honest, we would confess our discontent about many of our circumstances. It is so hard to feel and experience what we profess and believe. We don't want to complain, because we think it's unChristian. We tell ourselves that wherever we are, God is there with us. And this is true. But yet it doesn't seem to assuage the agony we're experiencing at the moment.

Sometimes I offer what I think is Christian advice, but it comes across as trite and devoid of empathy. And yet I have suffered and struggled so much in my life- as have most of us. I have ben married for 13 years, and I have 3 great children. But family life is challenging and accompanied by many trials and tribualtions. My wife and I have been through some very, very tough times. But I remember a time in my life where I thought I would never marry, and I really questioned God.

So, contentment is something I still struggle to obtain. Perhaps the key is learning to be content even in suffering. I think the Saints and ascetics teach us this. In this sinful world we cannot flee from suffering. All we can do is try to understand its purpose and try to learn from it. We have to try to allow our suffering to draw us nearer to God. And we have to realize that our experiences of suffering will better allow us to empathize and minister to others who are also hurting.

Selam
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« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2009, 11:35:58 AM »


I would agree.  There are some pretty rotten women out there, as well!

Rosehip,  you simply have to have faith that if God wishes for you to find a mate, you will - when the time is right. 
Don't worry so much about it.  You still have lots of "time".

As for dressing - dress the way that makes YOU feel good. 

Go to places that you enjoy.
If you love art, hang out at the art museums.  If you love to read, spend time at the bookstore. 

I hope you find what you are looking for, however, keep in mind that marriage isn't always "perfect" and sometimes isn't what's best for you.

It might be God wants to use you in some other way.

Don't push it.  Don't give up, but, don't make it the single focus and goal of your life, otherwise, you might be greatly disappointed.

My mother always told me to be happy, at whatever juncture I find myself at in life.  Depend on God and yourself.  Don't look for a man to make your life "easy".  Expect to live on your own, and if God so wills to send you a man, than he is just the frosting on your cake.

However, you can live on cake, alone, without the frosting.   Fewer calories!   Cheesy


Excellent wisdom!

Contentment is such a difficult thing to obtain. I think if we are all honest, we would confess our discontent about many of our circumstances. It is so hard to feel and experience what we profess and believe. We don't want to complain, because we think it's unChristian. We tell ourselves that wherever we are, God is there with us. And this is true. But yet it doesn't seem to assuage the agony we're experiencing at the moment.

Sometimes I offer what I think is Christian advice, but it comes across as trite and devoid of empathy. And yet I have suffered and struggled so much in my life- as have most of us. I have ben married for 13 years, and I have 3 great children. But family life is challenging and accompanied by many trials and tribualtions. My wife and I have been through some very, very tough times. But I remember a time in my life where I thought I would never marry, and I really questioned God.

So, contentment is something I still struggle to obtain. Perhaps the key is learning to be content even in suffering. I think the Saints and ascetics teach us this. In this sinful world we cannot flee from suffering. All we can do is try to understand its purpose and try to learn from it. We have to try to allow our suffering to draw us nearer to God. And we have to realize that our experiences of suffering will better allow us to empathize and minister to others who are also hurting.

Selam

This is excellent advice. .
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« Reply #120 on: August 10, 2009, 12:16:44 PM »



However, you can live on cake, alone, without the frosting.   Fewer calories!   Cheesy



How did you get to be so smart?  Wink Cheesy
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« Reply #121 on: August 10, 2009, 12:40:45 PM »

To me, a lot of what makes a woman attractive is not necessarily her hairstyle or clothing, but her self-confidence.  I have a friend who is physically very beautiful but she is so insecure and awkward around men that she has never really been able to attract much attention from guys.  On the flip side, I have had several friends who wouldn't get a second glance from modelling agencies but they are quite happily married or enjoying an active dating life.  Part of appearance and attraction is exuding the inner beauty you have confidently and maturely, and the real trick is to do it without thinking about it. 
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« Reply #122 on: August 10, 2009, 01:20:07 PM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 

Like Ialmisry, I actually do not find her all that beautiful on the outside, too. She has strange, unkind eyes.

Now now Heorhij. Remember that you are quick to condemn me for being judgmental. Why pick on poor Paris? Although I agree with your assessment, I doubt if you would have allowed me to make the same remarks. Just saying. Wink

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« Reply #123 on: August 10, 2009, 01:44:36 PM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 

Like Ialmisry, I actually do not find her all that beautiful on the outside, too. She has strange, unkind eyes.

Now now Heorhij. Remember that you are quick to condemn me for being judgmental. Why pick on poor Paris? Although I agree with your assessment, I doubt if you would have allowed me to make the same remarks. Just saying. Wink

Selam

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Have you two boys always been like this?  Cheesy
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« Reply #124 on: August 10, 2009, 02:05:41 PM »

keep the thread on track or I will lock it.  There is a random post thread here in Other Topics already.  -username!section moderator.
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« Reply #125 on: August 10, 2009, 07:40:03 PM »

although it seems godly-acting men are going the way of the dinosaurs.


Here we go again with the generalizations. Godly acting men (whatever that actually means) are NOT going the way of the dinosaur anymore than women. It's one thing to sympathize with Rosehip and to offer her prayer support and encouragement and it's quite another to make derogatory remarks about men which is totally uncalled for. Let's show some restraint as well as exercise some common sense in this discussion.

Understood. Sorry for the offense! Smiley
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« Reply #126 on: August 10, 2009, 07:56:50 PM »

And if we accept ourselves, but others are constantly rejecting us? What then? How does one come to terms with this rejection which impacts our entire life? The difference between having been allowed to marry and have children and be a homemaker or a life of losing dream after dream??? I really don't think anyone here who so easily gets married at the drop of the hat without having to have been alone for decades simply doesn't understand the grief and loss involved.

I am one of those, I know! I have been blessed with a wife and a child and a wonderful family of in-laws; and all that was not "just," - because I know that I do not deserve all that! And yes, in all honesty, I think about people who are not blessed the way I am, but I realize that I cannot experience what they experience...

Rosehip, dear sis, I just hope and look forward to the day when we ALL come together, married and single and divorced and remarried and whatever-whatever-whatever... whatever, and be together, rewarded, happy, blessed, blissful... and we will hug the kids who are not "my" or "yours" or "theirs," but the kids who are all "ours," and we will sing with joy, and dance, and sport all the best and most beautiful artistically designed clothes, and be what we all really are meant, by our God, to be...

Wow. Beautiful words, George! *&#^% beautiful words! Grin
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« Reply #127 on: August 10, 2009, 08:02:44 PM »

Dear Rosehip,

You are clearly in a difficult place, where even your efforts to climb out of it work somehow hinder your quest to find a life mate. I think that the only way you are going to get out of this predicament is for you to leave this matter in God's hands--"Thy will be done" is the ultimate liberating prayer. It helped me in a similar quandary.

In any case, once your fate is in His hands, your peace of mind will be so much greater that you true-self will naturally radiate out like an aura. Then, God's will for you will be realized and you will be happy.
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« Reply #128 on: August 10, 2009, 08:14:34 PM »

It is also important to remember that not all married people got married easily and at the drop of a hat. I can promise you that nothing about my life prior to my marriage was easy. And I can tell you many heart breaking stories of things my wife and I went through before we finally got married. I can also tell you that nothing about marriage is easy at all. My family is the greatest blessing in my life apart from Christ and His Church, but it is not easy. It is heartache and pain and joy and struggle and highs and lows and hopes and disappointments and fears and expectations and doubts and temptations and resentment and pleasure and guilt and victory and loss and life and death and... I could keep going. In other words, it's just like life. It's reality. It's hard work. But it's worth fighting for. Of that I'm absolutely certain!

So keep fighting Rosehip! Smiley

Selam
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« Reply #129 on: August 12, 2009, 02:45:40 AM »

Dear Rosehip,

In my 20s I went through something similar, except I was far from having any sort of Christian piety (unknown to me, and goodness knows I am still working on it). I swear I had "mistress" stamped on my forehead, but not intentionally. I'd start dating someone and find out he was married/had a serious girlfriend - one guy worked in the same company as my best friend and he asked her to set up a date with me after we chatted briefly at a party. She started working on it until she found out he was getting married in a week! This sort of thing happened regularly.

But despite the clear differences (me being of a far more, ahem, worldly sort), I felt much the same frustration as you. By the way, are you actually Canadian (someone mentioned that...)? My personal opinion is many (certainly not all) Canadian men have a bit of a Peter Pan complex going on. Perhaps this is part of the reason I married a Russian fellow - he felt no fear when discussing, 6 months into our relationship, future wishes and expectation (kids, marriage and the like), unlike many a Canadian fellow I've met (although Canadian men are certainly lovely in many ways - I just don't know if I'd marry one).

Anyway, my story and many others I've met goes like this: you've given up in total frustration and heartbreak, and just decide, perhaps with a level of sorrow, that there is no hope of ever getting married and men are just jerks etc (please don't jump on me guys, I know this is not true, but when you get frustrated this is the way you start to think), and you just get on with your life and BAM! That's when the good ones come along. It's true. They (the guys) sense your desperation (and you might not think of yourself as exuding a desperate persona, but trust me on this one, you almost assuredly are in your own way - desperation does not automatically mean that you throw yourselves at the boys - it manifests itself in many ways) and this will work against you.

My recommendation is to forget the online stuff (can't say I've ever done it, so I'm sure it does work - in fact I know it does work - on occasion), but try VOLUNTEERING for something you either really enjoy doing (although quilting doesn't count as you probably won't find the kind of boys you'd want to marry) or you really believe in. I met my husband when I decided to volunteer backstage (props etc.) in a local semi-professional theatre on a bit of a whim while reminiscing about some of the enjoyable times in my childhood. My mom did some acting in local theatre, and she'd drag me and my brother to rehearsals and occasionally make us participate in the action in the children's Christmas plays. It was a blast, particularly as many of the actors were Brits and they were really quite hilarious.

I digress yet a zillionth time again. So, my husband was the director of this play I volunteered for. I also had a choice of the lead actor (also an opera singer). Fortunately I went with the director, which not only led me to a really great guy (although being an artistic type there is no hope I'll ever be a homemaker - just a warning as you indicated earlier that this was a dream of yours), but also led me to Orthodoxy - a great gift of which I sadly do not take nearly enough advantage.

I think volunteering is a great way to go. You participate in something in which you love/enjoy/believe, build extra skills, and meet like-minded folk/men. And you give to society in many way (and message to Heorhij - it doesn't have to be the kind of volunteering that gives you the heebie-jeebies - cultural volunteering usually has no self-righteousness involved. Is there such as thing a wine-tasting volunteering??? Saving society from bad wine???)

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« Reply #130 on: August 12, 2009, 09:56:10 AM »

I've never had any luck with Russian men. Everyone has told me they prefer their own-Russian women, and I've found it to be so. Even Russian women however, has warned me constantly about their men. They do not have good track records as far as keeping themselves pure before marriage goes(I do not want to contract all sorts of STDs) and also, are not known to be faithful afterwards. And many of them drink and smoke and this is really not what I want at all. The minute I see a man lighting up, it completely turns me off.
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« Reply #131 on: August 12, 2009, 10:32:06 AM »

Let's see if I have this right: Canadian men (many Canadian men that is) have a Peter Pan complex. Russian men are a special group of their own... only preferring Russian women and even Russian women warn others of them. All online searching is dangerous and leads to problems. Generalization after generalization after generalization. Perhaps some of the problems relate directly to "some" of us making sweeping generalizations. Has that ever occurred to any contributors here?

Men (whether Russian, Canadian, American, Swahili, Serbian, Finnish etc etc etc) are men. It's a given that culture and cultural traditions will enter into how men behave BUT the bottom line is: they are NOT all the same and they should NOT all be lumped together as though they were.

As for online romances... I met my wife online and it's now going on nine years of blissful marriage. I can't imagine my life without her. Furthermore, I can point to several other happy marriages all of which occurred through a chance meeting online.

There are no guarantees... period. Volunteering is a great idea but it is no guarantee that you will find one of the good ones. You've just as much chance of meeting a jerk there as anywhere else. Having the priest set up a date is no guarantee, nor is being set up by a relative, a friend or a co-worker a guarantee. There are none.

It's been said countless times in this thread now and it bears repeating. First one must find contentment and peace with oneself. In so doing he/she will exude confidence and THAT quality is certainly a good one in attracting others. I love my wife's sense of humor. She is one of the happiest, sweetest gals I've ever come across. But I had to get to know that quality and I've a sense that had I met her in a physical manner (as opposed to online) I might have dismissed her. I'm just thankful that we met the way we did.

I work with a woman in her early 40's (42 I believe) who also wants to find a husband. We were talking about this the other day and she remarked, "You know... I really hope to meet this man of my dreams some day BUT if I don't... I will still be happy with the life I now live. I'm content in my job and I have several interests that occupy me. Life is still good." I truly believe she is going to meet that special someone because of her attitude more than anything else. And it will happen in good time. But if I'm wrong, evidently she is content with the life with which God has blessed her.

Rosehip, I pray that you will find contentment within and of course I hope and pray that ultimately you will find someone special. There has been so much great advice in this thread. I really encourage you to go back and re-read many of the replies. (just ignore the generalizations as being well-intentioned but way off-course)
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« Reply #132 on: August 12, 2009, 10:44:13 AM »

Let's see if I have this right: Canadian men (many Canadian men that is) have a Peter Pan complex. Russian men are a special group of their own... only preferring Russian women and even Russian women warn others of them. All online searching is dangerous and leads to problems. Generalization after generalization after generalization. Perhaps some of the problems relate directly to "some" of us making sweeping generalizations. Has that ever occurred to any contributors here?

Men (whether Russian, Canadian, American, Swahili, Serbian, Finnish etc etc etc) are men. It's a given that culture and cultural traditions will enter into how men behave BUT the bottom line is: they are NOT all the same and they should NOT all be lumped together as though they were.

As for online romances... I met my wife online and it's now going on nine years of blissful marriage. I can't imagine my life without her. Furthermore, I can point to several other happy marriages all of which occurred through a chance meeting online.

There are no guarantees... period. Volunteering is a great idea but it is no guarantee that you will find one of the good ones. You've just as much chance of meeting a jerk there as anywhere else. Having the priest set up a date is no guarantee, nor is being set up by a relative, a friend or a co-worker a guarantee. There are none.

It's been said countless times in this thread now and it bears repeating. First one must find contentment and peace with oneself. In so doing he/she will exude confidence and THAT quality is certainly a good one in attracting others. I love my wife's sense of humor. She is one of the happiest, sweetest gals I've ever come across. But I had to get to know that quality and I've a sense that had I met her in a physical manner (as opposed to online) I might have dismissed her. I'm just thankful that we met the way we did.

I work with a woman in her early 40's (42 I believe) who also wants to find a husband. We were talking about this the other day and she remarked, "You know... I really hope to meet this man of my dreams some day BUT if I don't... I will still be happy with the life I now live. I'm content in my job and I have several interests that occupy me. Life is still good." I truly believe she is going to meet that special someone because of her attitude more than anything else. And it will happen in good time. But if I'm wrong, evidently she is content with the life with which God has blessed her.

Rosehip, I pray that you will find contentment within and of course I hope and pray that ultimately you will find someone special. There has been so much great advice in this thread. I really encourage you to go back and re-read many of the replies. (just ignore the generalizations as being well-intentioned but way off-course)

I completely agree with all you said.

Rosehip, it is obvious that a lot of people love and care about you. Try to focus on that. I can tell that your heart is hurting, and I applaud you for sharing your pain so openly. That takes a lot of courage and faith. But there is no perfect man. And if/when you do get married, you will both quickly realize that there are a lot of flaws in each other. But you will also realize that there is so much more good about each other as well. The perfect man does not exist. The perfect Christian does not exist. And believe it or not, you are not the perfect woman (and I know you don't think that you are.) Just focus on positive things. I sense you spiraling into negativity and anger, which is certainly understandable. But try not to give satan a foothold. You are a beautiful person Rosehip, so keep moving forward and shake the dust from your feet. OK?

Selam
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« Reply #133 on: August 12, 2009, 10:45:54 AM »

You must visit Great Britain, Rosehip. You would be most welcome (I have only had one bad experience with an English man). True English gentlemen value politeness; they strive to keep proper form toward other people, at all times. I rather enjoy their dry humor also. Some English men might be serious adulterers, but they do it in a polite and correct maner. Grin Tally-ho. . .



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« Reply #134 on: August 12, 2009, 10:47:32 AM »


I work with a woman in her early 40's (42 I believe) who also wants to find a husband. We were talking about this the other day and she remarked, "You know... I really hope to meet this man of my dreams some day BUT if I don't... I will still be happy with the life I now live. I'm content in my job and I have several interests that occupy me. Life is still good."

I didn't know you were sitting in the cube next to mine!  Hey, lets do lunch!
 Grin

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Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
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