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Rosehip
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« on: August 07, 2009, 01:08:37 PM »

I'm wondering what your feelings are about women's clothing, hairstyles etc. Do you prefer high maintance women with french manicures, jimmy choo shoes, coach/prada handbags, expensive jewelry, expensive hairstyles etc. over a woman who doesn't have these things?

I was always taught in my childhood that these things are worldly and that inner beauty was more important. Also, without a huge income, it's very difficult to even afford constant trips to the hairdresser, much less all the expensive clothing and handbags etc.

But I recently went out with a man who just sent me a message informing me basically that I needed an expensive hairstyle and a makeover. I was rather insulted by this, as I simply do not have even a job at present. How can I afford to spend money on such things? I love beautiful, expensive clothing as much as anyone, but how to afford it?

Is this what is important to you men? Please discuss.
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 01:12:40 PM »

I think this will depend upon the man.
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 01:18:44 PM »

I'm wondering what your feelings are about women's clothing, hairstyles etc. Do you prefer high maintance women with french manicures, jimmy choo shoes, coach/prada handbags, expensive jewelry, expensive hairstyles etc. over a woman who doesn't have these things?

I was always taught in my childhood that these things are worldly and that inner beauty was more important. Also, without a huge income, it's very difficult to even afford constant trips to the hairdresser, much less all the expensive clothing and handbags etc.

But I recently went out with a man who just sent me a message informing me basically that I needed an expensive hairstyle and a makeover. I was rather insulted by this, as I simply do not have even a job at present. How can I afford to spend money on such things? I love beautiful, expensive clothing as much as anyone, but how to afford it?

Is this what is important to you men? Please discuss.

It makes it sound as we are all alike.

It has been a contention of mine that women don't dress mostly for men, but for other women.  My ex couldn't understand why I couldn't care less is another guy showed up at a party with the same shirt, etc.  I'd complement him on his good taste. Tongue

My ex was very into the appearances, though she didn't need to.  She was very attractive without it.  As she didn't care what my opinion was in preferences, who was she dressing up for.  She suffered from narcissism though, and a borderline personality, so I can't go too much on her as to what women are like (my son asked me what it is like to be married yesterday, and I honestly had to tell him "I don't know.").

Inner beauty is more important, but guys in general like outer beauty too.  The main thing is the thought that the woman is being beautiful for him.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 01:19:21 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 01:25:22 PM »

Well, I thought I had really dressed up with a pretty dress and heels and jewelry, but even that wasn't good enough, I guess. It always seems there's something that's not right-really there's no way under the sun to ever be good enough for a man. It's so discouraging and hurtful. I can't understand how other people are able to marry, but others are simply never ever good enough, no matter how hard they try. Also, it seems many, many women find rich boyfriends who buy them all kinds of expensive things. Seems to me not quite fair. It's the one's who don't have boyfriends who need the money to buy expensive things in order to attract someone... Undecided
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 01:37:11 PM »


Rosehip,  I am sure you looked lovely.  You can't look anything, but, lovely - even if you were wearing a potato sack. 

Maybe this guy simply used that as an excuse.  Maybe he is looking for a "different" type of girl.

I used to work with one girl (using the word loosely) who would "dress up" specifically for her lunch dates.  I won't go into what occurred over lunch. 

Her many men would shower her with gifts.  Trust me, she wasn't "all that".

However, she shopped around until she found one who gave her the most gifts, and then she latched on.  She's now married to that one, and has quit work, because he pays her way.

While she may be materialistically satisfied, I would guess the quality of her life may not be what you (or I, for that matter) would be looking for.  Her goal in marriage was to get money.  Her men were looking for women who were all made up - arm candy.  Their match was perfect, for them.

I think you are looking for a man with some depth in his soul, not just his pockets.

If you truly wish to get married, don't give up....I'm sure he's out there.



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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2009, 01:43:49 PM »

I don't know, Liz. It seems impossible and unfair to be judged cruelly by men all the time. Some of us just aren't blessed with the kind of money we'd like to have in order to pay for expensive clothing. Sometimes one wants to commit suicide after decades of rejection from men who have hurt so cruelly a simple, wistful soul who only wanted to experience love on this earth.

It seems to me that many people have never suffered a day in lives, if they demand such difficult and cruel things of people.
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 01:49:52 PM »

I don't know, Liz. It seems impossible and unfair to be judged cruelly by men all the time. Some of us just aren't blessed with the kind of money we'd like to have in order to pay for expensive clothing. Sometimes one wants to commit suicide after decades of rejection from men who have hurt so cruelly a simple, wistful soul who only wanted to experience love on this earth.

It seems to me that many people have never suffered a day in lives, if they demand such difficult and cruel things of people.

Not necessary. Some find that the way they exact their revenge for all their suffering, real and perceived.

I worked for 5 years in the locked psych ward.  Things aren't always what they seem.
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 01:51:06 PM »

[
It makes it sound as we are all alike.

It has been a contention of mine that women don't dress mostly for men, but for other women.

My ex was very into the appearances, though she didn't need to.  She was very attractive without it.  As she didn't care what my opinion was in preferences, who was she dressing up for.  She suffered from narcissism though, and a borderline personality, so I can't go too much on her as to what women are like (my son asked me what it is like to be married yesterday, and I honestly had to tell him "I don't know.").

Inner beauty is more important, but guys in general like outer beauty too.  The main thing is the thought that the woman is being beautiful for him.

Wow! You just described my own experience to a "T". My ex and yours could have been twins.  laugh

The fact is, we can't say men (meaning... all men) like such-and-such because we are stereo-typing and that is inadvisable (and wrong). Men are individuals. Some like what you've described whereas some simply don't care. I have to admit to being attracted to a woman who cares about her appearance BUT I readily admit that over the long haul, inner beauty is certainly more important. However, if we're to attract the opposite gender, then it seems only logical that we're going to need to put our best foot forward and take care of our appearance (as much as we can given our own circumstances).

I met my second wife online of all places so I didn't have an opportunity to judge her based upon her appearance BEFORE I got to know her "inner beauty" (as much as can be learned about someone via the internet/e-mail and six months of chatting). Perhaps the internet is changing the way the laws of attraction work these days. Who can say?

I honestly don't think an expensive handbag, expensive shoes and expensive hair-styling is going to be a huge attraction for most men (but then again... who am I to speak for other men so perhaps I should just say... for me). However, a woman who takes care of herself physically (i.e. her hair, her teeth, her nails, and so forth) is probably going to stand a better chance at attracting someone who doesn't do those things.
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 01:53:26 PM »

The guy that said that to you isn't the guy for you.  If he can't accept you the way your hair is now then good riddance to him.  A true partner will accept you for you and build the relationship based on trust, communication and respect... he's not going to build a lasting relationship on hair length or how sheik you dress.  If shallow is what he wants he'll be a lonely man all his life even if he's married to the girl he deems his trophy.
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 01:59:23 PM »

[
It makes it sound as we are all alike.

It has been a contention of mine that women don't dress mostly for men, but for other women.

My ex was very into the appearances, though she didn't need to.  She was very attractive without it.  As she didn't care what my opinion was in preferences, who was she dressing up for.  She suffered from narcissism though, and a borderline personality, so I can't go too much on her as to what women are like (my son asked me what it is like to be married yesterday, and I honestly had to tell him "I don't know.").

Inner beauty is more important, but guys in general like outer beauty too.  The main thing is the thought that the woman is being beautiful for him.

Wow! You just described my own experience to a "T". My ex and yours could have been twins.  laugh

Leaves the question:who is the evil twin. LOL.
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2009, 02:01:45 PM »

When I was single, I certainly was not interested in women who spent more than me on clothes (I like early 60s vintage British style-cut clothes which unfortunately are not cheap).  My wife shops @ Target and manages to find wonderful clothes that compliment her well.  I never liked the really made up look and was always attracted to women who didn't spend a whole lot of time looking in a mirror.  Even today, I tell me wife regularly that she looks most beautiful to me in the early morning before either of us get out of bed (she scoffs, at this, of course and sticks her tongue out at me, but she does accept that I believe that)!  

I echo username!'s comments.  The polite nature of this forum prohibits me from expressing my true feelings about this guy, so let's just say he's a knave and a rogue and you're better off looking elsewhere for companionship.

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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2009, 02:02:57 PM »

Yeah, ironically, he was complaining the whole time about his ex, who sounded to me exactly what Ialmisry and Douglas are talking about...she sounded very, very spoiled and ran away with another man and it sounds like now they don't even get along. She complains all the time about not having enough money to buy all the fancy things she's accustomed to, yet she has a very well paying job AND a rich boyfriend who constantly gives her money...I was just shaking my head in disbelief that such spoiled people exist. Yet, by his own shallowness, he likely helped create and support these traits...?

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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2009, 02:04:45 PM »

Yeah, ironically, he was complaining the whole time about his ex, who sounded to me exactly what Ialmisry and Douglas are talking about...she sounded very, very spoiled and ran away with another man and it sounds like now they don't even get along. She complains all the time about not having enough money to buy all the fancy things she's accustomed to, yet she has a very well paying job AND a rich boyfriend who constantly gives her money...I was just shaking my head in disbelief that such spoiled people exist. Yet, by his own shallowness, he likely helped create and support these traits...?



If he spent the whole time complaining about an ex, he's still running from her and not looking ahead.  IMHO, of course.
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2009, 02:09:27 PM »

Yes, Shultz. This is a weird, middle-class suburban world I'm just not used to at all.

But regarding hairstyles-what is required and considered good enough for a man? Any advice, please. I don't have bangs because I don't like them and think I look better without them-do men want women with bangs??
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2009, 02:10:23 PM »

Appearances and hygiene are important to me to an extent, but only insomuch as the woman physically healthy and clean.  For example, I don't really care if women shave their legs or armpit hair, but regular bathing is a plus.

As far as expensive clothing and hours primping and grooming, that is a huge turn-off for me.  I actually encourage my wife to not wear makeup.  She is beautiful without it, and so many women get sucked into a vortex of vanity that is completely devoid of any spiritual value.

As far as physical features, I don't prefer obese women.  But that has more to do with health and what it says about the woman's priorities and personal discipline than to do with 'ugliness' or whatever.

You have posted pictures of yourself on here, as well as posted your personality for all of us, and you are a beautiful woman inside and out who doesn't need any of the things that man was looking for.  Just ignore those sort of shallow idiots.  They don't deserve you!
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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2009, 02:13:06 PM »

I like it when women look good. A woman, IMHO, can look good while wearing all the different kinds of clothes: sports clothes, beach bikini, business suit, evening dress. If it is chosen with taste, - great. Hair - same thing. My wife and daughter are both experts in women's hair, and I've seen them wear all kinds of hairdos, from crewcut to long hair falling almost to the waist, and I like it always.

What I dislike in women clothes is pretentiousness and a lack of taste. Some of the most horrible examples of that I saw in American Protestant churches, especially in the "liberal" mainline Protestant congregation where I was baptised. The people who gathered there were from the "aging hippie" generation, and some women looked like parrots of peacocks.
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« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2009, 02:16:42 PM »

Is this what is important to you men? Please discuss.

I would strongly second Quinault's point that it depends on the man. We are each an individual. I know plenty of men happily married or seriously dating women that I would never have a relationship with--for reasons ranging from the shallow to deep philosophical differences to just plain incompatible personality traits. Some of those women I respect immensely, others I see what my friend sees in them even if I don't. They just weren't for me.

Even with an individual man, its not a simple yes-or-no answer. I would have to admit that, yes, I do like it when a woman is stylish, even flashy. I'm not particularly proud of it, but that does seem to be the trend of my taste. Despite that, for the first six months I knew her, my wife never wore any jewelry, not even earrings, except for a simple jade ring she had received from her grandmother. Now she's added a somewhat ornate but tasteful cross bought for her by her godmother and, of course, a wedding ring, but she still gets her hair cut at a discount place, never paints her nails, and the majority of her clothes are hand-me-downs from her mother. IOW, if you had asked me to describe the 'perfect woman', 3 years ago, the description would not have much in common with her. But then I met her and she completely reorganized my ideas about what the perfect woman is like.

I will say, from a practical viewpoint, that the one constant I can point to is self-assuredness. A woman who is comfortable with how she looks--whether that means being comfortable with a 5-inch heels, a prada bag, and a manicure or comfortable with old jeans, no make-up and a t-shirt--is more *interesting* (and therefore more attractive) than a woman who is clearly self-concious about how she is presenting herself.
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« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2009, 02:17:57 PM »

I think maybe the problem is not fitting into middle-class suburbanite culture. I just don't understand it and it is very off-putting to me.

George, can you define pretentious and parrots of peacocks?  

If any of you have links to pictures of how you would expect a woman to look, please post them.

Many thanks.
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« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2009, 02:27:12 PM »

George, can you define pretentious and parrots of peacocks?  

For example, wearing a huge hat with feathers, or a fluffy shapeless dress made of a material that shines with all the colors of the rainbow.

If any of you have links to pictures of how you would expect a woman to look, please post them.

My pleasure:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/photo.php?pid=230543&id=1096583292&ref=mf
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« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2009, 02:41:10 PM »


Heorhij,

The link didn't work.

I am interested in what a "good looking" woman looks like, too!

It's fun getting into men's heads!   Wink

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« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2009, 02:54:01 PM »

Sorry it did not work... it's from my wife's Facebook, the picture of her and of our daughter. I'll try to find something else closer to the end of the day.
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« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2009, 02:59:12 PM »

I will echo the others and say that it would depend on the man. However, it seems to me that men and women both look their best if they dress for the occasion and minimize, let us say, their imperfections. On the latter point, I will make an example of myself and point out that at age 63, I dress differently for the beach than I did at 23.

In any case, I prefer simplicity to complexity, restraint to extravagance, and understated to flashy--to allow the true self to shine through. This way, any exception to the rule would be recognized and appreciated as such. But, the dress and appearance should show thoughtfulness and a certain bow to convention (cleanliness and neatness).

As for what constitutes a "good looking woman" for men, I think a woman is good looking when she thinks herself to be good looking and projects her self-confidence and self-image accordingly.
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« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2009, 03:12:35 PM »

Rosehip, from the pictures you have posted of yourself I have to say you are quite beautiful exactly as you are.  You have a natural, elegant beauty that most women spend years and thousands of dollars trying to achieve!  The man you described sounds like he's trying to make you into the ex he's not really over, which is not healthy for either of you.  If he can't accept or even see you for who you are, he's really not worth the time spent.  He sounds pretty shallow to me.  It is true that every man has his own idea of beauty but at the same time, I don't believe that he should ever say you don't look good enough.  He should be honest enough to tell you if you really need a shower, but kind enough to do so without making you feel like you're a street urchin.
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« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2009, 04:30:49 PM »

Yeah, ironically, he was complaining the whole time about his ex, who sounded to me exactly what Ialmisry and Douglas are talking about...she sounded very, very spoiled and ran away with another man and it sounds like now they don't even get along. She complains all the time about not having enough money to buy all the fancy things she's accustomed to, yet she has a very well paying job AND a rich boyfriend who constantly gives her money...I was just shaking my head in disbelief that such spoiled people exist. Yet, by his own shallowness, he likely helped create and support these traits...?



Well, if he spent the whole time complaining about his ex, and then makes demands on you to be like her, RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!
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« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2009, 04:32:05 PM »

I will echo the others and say that it would depend on the man. However, it seems to me that men and women both look their best if they dress for the occasion and minimize, let us say, their imperfections. On the latter point, I will make an example of myself and point out that at age 63, I dress differently for the beach than I did at 23.

In any case, I prefer simplicity to complexity, restraint to extravagance, and understated to flashy--to allow the true self to shine through. This way, any exception to the rule would be recognized and appreciated as such. But, the dress and appearance should show thoughtfulness and a certain bow to convention (cleanliness and neatness).

As for what constitutes a "good looking woman" for men, I think a woman is good looking when she thinks herself to be good looking and projects her self-confidence and self-image accordingly.

It is odd how true this is.
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« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2009, 04:46:29 PM »

Rosehip, from the pictures you have posted of yourself I have to say you are quite beautiful exactly as you are.  You have a natural, elegant beauty that most women spend years and thousands of dollars trying to achieve!  The man you described sounds like he's trying to make you into the ex he's not really over, which is not healthy for either of you.  If he can't accept or even see you for who you are, he's really not worth the time spent.  He sounds pretty shallow to me.  It is true that every man has his own idea of beauty but at the same time, I don't believe that he should ever say you don't look good enough.  He should be honest enough to tell you if you really need a shower, but kind enough to do so without making you feel like you're a street urchin.

I agree with every word.
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« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2009, 05:07:28 PM »

Yeah, ironically, he was complaining the whole time about his ex, who sounded to me exactly what Ialmisry and Douglas are talking about...she sounded very, very spoiled and ran away with another man and it sounds like now they don't even get along. She complains all the time about not having enough money to buy all the fancy things she's accustomed to, yet she has a very well paying job AND a rich boyfriend who constantly gives her money...I was just shaking my head in disbelief that such spoiled people exist. Yet, by his own shallowness, he likely helped create and support these traits...?



Well, if he spent the whole time complaining about his ex, and then makes demands on you to be like her, RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!

I completely and totally agree!
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« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2009, 05:42:37 PM »

Here are a few images I would call "good-looking women":

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2a5kwsw&s=5

http://tros.nl/uploads/RTEmagicC_12Mis_s_en_05.jpg.jpg

http://www.skibumnews.com/2girls.jpg

http://www.fpra-orlando.org/info/Dana-Johnson-Large.jpg

http://www.adverts.pk/adpics/497da0aeac877fbd639082144.jpg

http://www.womens-sweatershop.com/images/tall-women-s-ski-sweaters_1.jpg

http://www.daemonstv.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/nup_135322_0076-332x500.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~ivychat/sarah_clarke.jpg

http://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/shop/images/tees7/6304_0L.jpg

http://www.johnnyjet.com/image/PictureForNewsletterMalaysiaAirlinesARNtoKULFAsWellDressed.JPG
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« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2009, 05:44:45 PM »

Someone I don't find even remotely attractive:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aceandvis/paris-hilton-001.jpg
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« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2009, 05:54:47 PM »

And to answer in the affirmative, Jami Gertz (my ex and her could pass as sisters):

http://cinematicpassions.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/jamigertzposter002.jpg

I just found out her birthday (oct 28) is the same day I met my ex.  Weird.
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« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2009, 06:30:26 PM »

A few more:

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_185/1189892800E1IW5r.jpg

http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_images_n300/0188-0511-1905-1616_business_woman_in_a_suit.jpg

http://www.collegefashion.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/woman-in-business-suit.jpg

http://www.handbags-purses-guide.com/pix/sarah-brown-clutch-bag.jpg

http://scienceblogs.com/isisthescientist/upload/2009/06/isiss_new_office_attire/business_woman.jpg

http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/4613452/86592-main_Full.jpg

http://www.cu.edu.ge/data/image_db/other/pic_2_FjxNfxS2B.JPG

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/.a/6a00d8341c2c7653ef011279822d3628a4-320wi

http://static-p3.fotolia.com/jpg/00/10/09/18/400_F_10091892_2nV4lCsj2YbOWp77ohacaoQiLgFhUyfM.jpg

http://cache.jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/01/beingbornjosiemaran.jpg

http://yourdailylife.bravehost.com/myPictures/woman_red_suit.jpg
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« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2009, 06:55:50 PM »

Whew-was gone for the day-thanks so much everyone for the input and advice!! This is extremely helpful!! Thanks to EVERYONE who has contributed thus far-I really, really appreciate it very much!!

George, thanks so much for all those links! Actually I find many of them too plain and business/career-like fo my tastes-but am relieved that this is good enough for you. One of the first pics-a woman in navy with a scarf on her head-now that I consider tasteful, chic, elegant, classy,sophisticated. But I have this feeling middle-class suburbanite men just wouldn't appreciate it at all.

A woman whom I consider to be very attractive and well-dressed is Carla Bruni-Sarkozy. Do you agree?
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« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2009, 06:57:35 PM »

Rosehip, I have already seen your pictures so I know how beautiful you are already. I have quite a few male friends and they all say. . big or petite doesn't bother them as long as a woman is natural and has natural beauty. I know sometimes this is a code word "larger" women use to describe themselves but they don't mean it that way. They don't like it when women starve themselves thin, but equally if a woman is naturally slim then they think this is also beautiful. I know sometimes there is a bit of hate thrown at slim women, as though they should purposely put weight on or something! Madness..People should be encouraged to accept themselves and others the way God made them, but that message does not seem to be coming from any source right now; it is one of society's sicknesses as we (generally) cannot accept, or appreciate people for who they are. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" -  one man's beauty is another's ugliness. Personally good looking men do not float my boat at all, but that is just a personal "thing". If we are happy and contented in our own skin, regardless of clothing, etc, hopefully we will naturally draw the right kind of people to us; those who accept us the way we are. Try to not become too disheartened, Rosehip.  You are still a very young woman, so you've still got a lot of time to meet the right kind of guys.  

 
 
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« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2009, 07:04:16 PM »

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://fashiontribes.typepad.com/fashion/images/2008/04/04/carla_bruni_sarkozy_fashion_2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://fashiontribes.typepad.com/fashion/2008/04/its-good-to-be.html&usg=__PL-EB3VFIWZscsBjPfJnojYW2ps=&h=231&w=415&sz=91&hl=en&start=76&sig2=VfQ3bX3SA6Q2JNsZcvH81Q&um=1&tbnid=duiJA6OKWsUHpM:&tbnh=70&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcarla%2Bbruni%2Bsarkozy%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGIK_enCA280CA285%26sa%3DN%26start%3D60%26um%3D1&ei=O7F8SpvtNZSINKWuweEC

Catherine, thanks for jogging my memory. This is what I was thinking about this afternoon. Everytime I go out with some man almost without fail he is verbally critical about some aspect of me. I am very slim, it is true, and SO many men say to me with a sort of distaste, "so why are you so thin?". It's really hurtful to me, and because of these constant cruel remarks, I caused serious damage to my body in an attempt to please these men. I am so fed-up with these rich, powerful men who treat women like objects that they can stomp on and crush with their ruthless words and ways, in the smug knowledge that they are so rich and powerful they can damage you psychologically and still get any woman they want, leaving you hurting and lonely. Women, likewise, treat you like dirt if you are slim, and yet, at the end of the day, it is nearly always the chubbier ones the men pick for their wives. So frustrating.
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« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2009, 07:09:22 PM »

Bangs and various hairstyles really depend on the individual and their hair. I don't look real great with bangs. Typically I like to have all my hair waist length and let it just wave and curl naturally. On occasion I will flat iron my hair, but normally I just like to leave it natural. The thing about hair is you need to wear it like you actually like it. If you always wear it in a tight bun or a ponytail and it is not covered then it isn't flattering. Even women that have their hair covered can take more pride in their hair by wearing coverings that are complementry and pretty. Self esteem has had a bad rap within Christianity but there is a need for a person to have it. There is nothing more attractive than a person that has some sense of self worth. And conversely even the most beautiful person will be pitiful and unattractive if they have no self worth. A lot of these women that are dressed up and "pretty" are quite ugly because they are not comfortable in their own skin.

I don't wear makeup. For a period of time I tried to do it and while it looked "good" on me it wasn't something I was comfortable in, it just wasn't me. I felt awkward in full make up. I feel I am really dressing up when I wear eyeliner, mascara and some lip tint.

It would be false to change yourself to find someone. You really are a lovely woman as i have seen in your photos. Honestly I would work on seeing the beauty in yourself and worry less about the beauty others see. You are a very lovely woman, I am not saying that to make you feel good either. I am honest to a fault about these sort of things actually- it tends to get me into alot of trouble with women.....
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« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2009, 07:29:43 PM »

Quote
Rosehip - Women, likewise, treat you like dirt if you are slim

 We have something in common: Looking back on my life, I have been bullied/treated like dirt over stupid things. Some Christian women are just as "bitchy" as the non-Christian women. Having said that, there are, obviously, some very wonderful women who are far from "bitchy". As for men, some men want to dominate women, bring them down to size. I do not know you, but I have read your posts and I just want to say that you seem like a really good, well-balanced, down to earth person; you have a whole lot to offer someone. Do not settle for it as you are worth much more than that.
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« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2009, 07:46:34 PM »

There's some really good advice on this Thread! I believe this man you had to deal with is on the same level as those people who want to "do it" without protection: they aren't concerned about you, just themselves. If this guy was worth your time, he wouldn't be trying to turn you into a shallow Honey from the Hamptons. If you consented to becoming arm candy, you'd be even more unhappy than when you started. This guy sounds like he was emotional junk food for you, Rose! Don't be upset, love, because people like him are a dime a dozen! Kiss
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« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2009, 07:54:11 PM »

All men have their own unique preferences and desires.

Personally, since I am not even sure what a jimmy choo shoe is or a coach handbag (I keep getting a mental image of a small travel trunk Tongue), trends and all that are not important to me.  If a woman actually likes the "latest look" and buys into, that is her choice.  Now, if she can pull off a lab coat and goggles... RrrrrrRRRRRrrr, LOL!  laugh

To do with body size, again, men are all over the board.  Typically, a guy can tell if a woman is naturally petite or if she is starving herself, but this is not always the case.  Often some guys will err on the side of caution, because we fear girls with eating disorders.  I know this might sound selfish, since they obviously need help, but such disorders, like drug use, can destroy not only the person but those around them.  I believe this is just a natural thing for men, to be attracted to what they view to be healthy.  Then of course, there are just people who act like jerks because they are jerks, and you can't win with those people.

Like everyone else said, personality, interests, etc. play a much larger role, and often you will find someone you never previously thought you would be attracted to, very attractive indeed.  For example, I perfer dark hair, dark eyes, and olive (or darker) skin tone in terms of physical attributes, yet, an albino girl who loves Sci-fi is infinitely more attractive to me than my "preference" who despises all things Dr. Who, Battlestar, Bladerunner, and Asimov.  laugh

Both genders go through this.
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« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2009, 08:06:57 PM »

Well, Nebelpfade, I've never in my life touched any drugs or even a cigarette. I've eaten like a pig for decades, desperately trying to somehow gain the type of body that men will want. So it's not for want of trying or eating. Sigh. I just think it disgusting that men think they have the right to make rude remarks about such matters when I always keep my mouth shut around men regarding body traits or things over which a person has no control. It just doesn't seem good manners or proper upbringing to draw potentially hurtful attention to something which may wound a person psychologically.
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« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2009, 08:18:09 PM »

My older sister is about 5 ft tall and doesn't even weigh 100lbs. She is dinky and has always been dinky.  She has an athletic build and isn't what one would ever call "curvy." I on the other hand am nearly the opposite (other than being only about 5'4). My sister-in-law is almost 6 feet tall and not curvy or particularly dinky. All this to say all three of us are wed and all three of us have husbands that think we are the most beautiful women in the world and all three of us wish we had the body of someone else sometimes.
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« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2009, 08:19:57 PM »

Well, Nebelpfade, I've never in my life touched any drugs or even a cigarette. I've eaten like a pig for decades, desperately trying to somehow gain the type of body that men will want. So it's not for want of trying or eating. Sigh. I just think it disgusting that men think they have the right to make rude remarks about such matters when I always keep my mouth shut around men regarding body traits or things over which a person has no control. It just doesn't seem good manners or proper upbringing to draw potentially hurtful attention to something which may wound a person psychologically.

Unfortunately, for some, they don't mature, and they continue on with the schoolyard insults and behaviour they did years ago.  Sometimes you find "adults" who act in ways that even a high school or college would think was going too far, and other times they give off an appearance of maturity, but their mind is still in a highschool caf and their old gossip ring.
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« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2009, 08:42:41 PM »

(By the way, Heorhij, did you spend all day looking at pictures?! Tongue  laugh )
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« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2009, 08:43:52 PM »

(By the way, Heorhij, did you spend all day looking at pictures?! Tongue  laugh )
LOL.  George, you've been caught. Shocked
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« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2009, 08:48:16 PM »

There's some really good advice on this Thread! I believe this man you had to deal with is on the same level as those people who want to "do it" without protection: they aren't concerned about you, just themselves. If this guy was worth your time, he wouldn't be trying to turn you into a shallow Honey from the Hamptons. If you consented to becoming arm candy, you'd be even more unhappy than when you started. This guy sounds like he was emotional junk food for you, Rose! Don't be upset, love, because people like him are a dime a dozen! Kiss

Please tell me that you don't want to become a "Real Housewife of New York."  Yuk.
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« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2009, 08:50:37 PM »

My older sister is about 5 ft tall and doesn't even weigh 100lbs. She is dinky and has always been dinky.  She has an athletic build and isn't what one would ever call "curvy." I on the other hand am nearly the opposite (other than being only about 5'4). My sister-in-law is almost 6 feet tall and not curvy or particularly dinky. All this to say all three of us are wed and all three of us have husbands that think we are the most beautiful women in the world
As it should be.
 
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« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2009, 09:12:16 PM »

I find many of them too plain and business/career-like fo my tastes

Yes, I agree - I just wanted to pick a number of women dressed differently (skirts, slacks, sweaters etc.), not selecting for special class or prettyness. In other words, I picked women who look good, not necessarily stunning.

A woman whom I consider to be very attractive and well-dressed is Carla Bruni-Sarkozy. Do you agree?

Yes!
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« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2009, 09:15:25 PM »

(By the way, Heorhij, did you spend all day looking at pictures?! Tongue  laugh )
LOL.  George, you've been caught. Shocked

NOOOO!!!! Five minutes. I'll tell you the secret: I just typed in the Google search window, "women dressed, images" - and selected photos very quickly, paying attention only to what I would call a "normally good" look, not something spectacular.

As for my day, alas, I spent all of it at a very boring assessment meeting.
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« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2009, 09:23:32 PM »

 Now, if she can pull off a lab coat and goggles... RrrrrrRRRRRrrr, LOL!  laugh

Hey Nebelpfade, my college major is Clinical Laboratory Science. Meet me by the back work table in Chem Lab 201! Wink Cheesy angel
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« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2009, 09:27:24 PM »

 Now, if she can pull off a lab coat and goggles... RrrrrrRRRRRrrr, LOL!  laugh

Hey Nebelpfade, my college major is Clinical Laboratory Science. Meet me by the back work table in Chem Lab 201! Wink Cheesy angel

Lesya's colleague has this cartoon on her office door. A guy sits at the bar next to a beautiful woman, and says to her, "Listen, why don't you move your stool closer to mine, and let's sample this drink..." The woman answers, "You know... I am a medical parasitologist. To me, words "stool" and "sample" have, eh, different associations..."  Embarrassed
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« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2009, 09:43:08 PM »

Hey Nebelpfade, my college major is Clinical Laboratory Science. Meet me by the back work table in Chem Lab 201! Wink Cheesy angel

LOL!  Good to see more women in the sciences!  Some days I have to walk to the humanities area of campus to know your gender hasn't been whiped out by some XX-attacking super virus.
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« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2009, 09:55:33 PM »

Hey Nebelpfade, my college major is Clinical Laboratory Science. Meet me by the back work table in Chem Lab 201! Wink Cheesy angel

LOL!  Good to see more women in the sciences!  Some days I have to walk to the humanities area of campus to know your gender hasn't been whiped out by some XX-attacking super virus.

Oooh. . I am a bit disappointed as I will not be needing the rather fetching outfit that I have been saving for a suitable wedding (all my matchmaking attempts have failed) but this, in fact, could be the beginning of something beautiful. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNC0kIzM1Fo
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« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2009, 09:59:13 PM »

  This sounds like a guilty conscience. .  laugh


NOOOO!!!! Five minutes. I spent all of it at a very boring assessment meeting.




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« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2009, 10:15:37 PM »

Oooh. . I am a bit disappointed as I will not be needing the rather fetching outfit that I have been saving for a suitable wedding (all my matchmaking attempts have failed) but this, in fact, could be the beginning of something beautiful. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNC0kIzM1Fo


LOL!  There must be a law somewhere that if you have a female friend, you will be subject to matchmaking.  Tongue

Jests aside, I acually have a girl taking me to a movie next friday.  Which is a nice change of pace, and easier on my meagre wallet.  laugh
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« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2009, 12:24:34 AM »

I'm wondering what your feelings are about women's clothing, hairstyles etc. Do you prefer high maintance women with french manicures, jimmy choo shoes, coach/prada handbags, expensive jewelry, expensive hairstyles etc. over a woman who doesn't have these things?

I was always taught in my childhood that these things are worldly and that inner beauty was more important. Also, without a huge income, it's very difficult to even afford constant trips to the hairdresser, much less all the expensive clothing and handbags etc.

But I recently went out with a man who just sent me a message informing me basically that I needed an expensive hairstyle and a makeover. I was rather insulted by this, as I simply do not have even a job at present. How can I afford to spend money on such things? I love beautiful, expensive clothing as much as anyone, but how to afford it?

Is this what is important to you men? Please discuss.


You are good the way you are. I like women who know how to live within their means. Women who are not frugil with money will always get into arguments with men, because they buy things they can't afford, and live above their means. This is one of the reasons why the divorce rate in America is extremely high.

Inner beauty is where it's at, and you have way much more than that. If a man doesn't like the way you are then that person is the wrong kind of man. You do not need a make over.......that man was the wrong person for you. You are extremely attractive.............you just need a non materialistic man that loves God. A man who is down to earth and level headed. A man that loves nature, and the things not of this world.

Keep your head up, guard your heart, and seek a man that loves God and believes in living within his means and you will do fine.









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« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2009, 12:26:19 AM »

Quote
Nebelpfade -There must be a law somewhere that if you have a female friend, you will be subject to matchmaking.

Confession: I love hosting dinner parties, etc (I love introducing people to one another. .). RE: matchmaking; I have tried and failed a couple of times, so my matchmaking days are over  Smiley.

Quote
I acually have a girl taking me to a movie next friday.


And why not. .Have a wonderful time, Nebelpfade.
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« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2009, 12:34:05 AM »

Quote
Nebelpfade -There must be a law somewhere that if you have a female friend, you will be subject to matchmaking.

Confession: I love hosting dinner parties, etc (I love introducing people to one another. .). RE: matchmaking; I have tried and failed a couple of times, so my matchmaking days are over  Smiley.

From personally experience, I find that women do a terrible job matching their male friends up with potential matches.  laugh  Some seem to love matchmaking for the sake of matchmaking, without even thinking about the two people... Tongue

Quote
Quote
I acually have a girl taking me to a movie next friday.


And why not. .Have a wonderful time, Nebelpfade.

Thanks!  I'm hoping District 9 turns out better than Terminator Salvation did.  Grin
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« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2009, 12:36:24 AM »

I have had good luck matching anyone that isn't related to me Smiley
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« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2009, 12:37:15 AM »

I have had good luck matching anyone that isn't related to me Smiley

Some have the gift, I guess.  Others should never try.  Tongue
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« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2009, 12:48:16 AM »

I have had good luck matching anyone that isn't related to me Smiley

  Others should never try.  Tongue

  Tongue
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« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2009, 12:59:45 AM »

  Tongue

LoL, good intentions at least.  Tongue
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« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2009, 01:21:06 AM »

Dear Roseship,

Not that I can properly be classed as a man (i'm 19 Cheesy). But first of all I looked at your picture and I literally was taken aback you have a natural beauty that I don't see in many people that I have met, so purely on the physical factor you have nothing at all to worry about. Sometimes you have to remember that guys play games with woman and sadly saying supposedly nasty things works (like the other week a girl asked me what her dress looked like, and I said it looked like a curtain, interestingly enough she kept talking to me out of every guy that was there and she was way above my league). It could also be a lesser problem, he may just have been an idiot Cheesy

Although I haven't had as many experiences as everyone here, I have noticed that I am not only not attracted to woman with expensive clothes and the like, but that I have disdain and disgust at the vanity sometimes. The humble girl in the humble clothes always gets my attention.
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« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2009, 01:50:42 AM »

And another thing. . Feminine, "pretty" clothing need not be expensive, Rosehip (designer labels and expensive clothes do not mean anything to me); you don't need lots of money to look very feminine, etc. Who wants to be part of the "in" crowd anyways? Do you have good, genuine friends - lots of support?
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« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2009, 01:51:29 AM »

  Tongue

LoL, good intentions at least.  Tongue

Yes. . Smiley
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« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2009, 01:53:07 AM »

Dear Roseship,

Not that I can properly be classed as a man (i'm 19 Cheesy). But first of all I looked at your picture and I literally was taken aback you have a natural beauty that I don't see in many people that I have met, so purely on the physical factor you have nothing at all to worry about. Sometimes you have to remember that guys play games with woman and sadly saying supposedly nasty things works (like the other week a girl asked me what her dress looked like, and I said it looked like a curtain, interestingly enough she kept talking to me out of every guy that was there and she was way above my league). It could also be a lesser problem, he may just have been an idiot Cheesy

Although I haven't had as many experiences as everyone here, I have noticed that I am not only not attracted to woman with expensive clothes and the like, but that I have disdain and disgust at the vanity sometimes. The humble girl in the humble clothes always gets my attention.
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« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2009, 01:53:59 AM »

Double post whoops
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« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2009, 02:46:03 AM »

Personally I find modesty more attractive than anything else. Whenever I see women that dress to get attention, then I immediatley perceive them to be insecure and weak. But whenever I see a woman who is dressed modestly and carries herself with quiet humility , then I perceive her to be strong and confident. And nothing is more attractive in a woman than serene strength and humble confidence.

That's my opinion, since you asked.


Selam

 
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« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2009, 03:24:12 AM »

Personally I find modesty more attractive than anything else. Whenever I see women that dress to get attention,

Selam

 

Out of interest, how do you (guys) know they are dressing to get your attention?  Smiley Some women do dress to draw attention. ., but some women are still little girls inside and little girls love to dress up *cough. .like me  Smiley*  (if I were in a relationship, or married, I would dress to please my husband). On a serious note, how do guys tell the difference between an attention-seeking woman and a women who merely dresses for herself?
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« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2009, 03:33:28 AM »

Out of interest, how do you (guys) know they are dressing to get your attention?  Smiley Some women do dress to draw attention. ., but some women are still little girls inside and little girls love to dress up *cough. .like me  Smiley*  (if I were in a relationship, or married, I would dress to please my husband). On a serious note, how do guys tell the difference between an attention-seeking woman and a women who merely dresses for herself?

Body language.  Not to say a woman who dresses for herself rather than for attention is cold or aloof, but they present themselves differently.
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« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2009, 03:36:55 AM »

And why should anyone be judged by how they dress? Isn't this thread about that very point; being judged negatively, and negative critical comments? What makes a well-dressed woman weak and insecure? I have a friend who always looks gorgeous; I have never thought of her as weak and insecure. She loves to dress up whereas I can't be bothered. Just different strokes for different folks. And would a well-dressed man be seen as seeking attention and weak and insecure? If so, why should he? Can't people simply please themselves on how they attire themselves without people judging them as this or that?

Rosehip, you are lovely.
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« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2009, 03:43:24 AM »

And why should anyone be judged by how they dress? Isn't this thread about that very point; being judged negatively, and negative critical comments? What makes a well-dressed woman weak and insecure? I have a friend who always looks gorgeous; I have never thought of her as weak and insecure. She loves to dress up whereas I can't be bothered. Just different strokes for different folks. And would a well-dressed man be seen as seeking attention and weak and insecure? If so, why should he? Can't people simply please themselves on how they attire themselves without people judging them as this or that?

Rosehip, you are lovely.

I completely agree. .
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« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2009, 03:44:41 AM »

Out of interest, how do you (guys) know they are dressing to get your attention?  Smiley Some women do dress to draw attention. ., but some women are still little girls inside and little girls love to dress up *cough. .like me  Smiley*  (if I were in a relationship, or married, I would dress to please my husband). On a serious note, how do guys tell the difference between an attention-seeking woman and a women who merely dresses for herself?

Body language.  Not to say a woman who dresses for herself rather than for attention is cold or aloof, but they present themselves differently.

Fairy nuff (Re: body language; point taken).
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« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2009, 04:17:21 AM »

And why should anyone be judged by how they dress? Isn't this thread about that very point; being judged negatively, and negative critical comments? What makes a well-dressed woman weak and insecure? I have a friend who always looks gorgeous; I have never thought of her as weak and insecure. She loves to dress up whereas I can't be bothered. Just different strokes for different folks. And would a well-dressed man be seen as seeking attention and weak and insecure? If so, why should he? Can't people simply please themselves on how they attire themselves without people judging them as this or that?

Rosehip, you are lovely.

Why are you confusing "well-dressed" with a lack of modesty? I was clear in stating that I prefer modesty in a woman. To me well-dressed means modest attire, not immodest. That's my opinion, which was the inquiring solicitation of the original post of this thread.

Now in regards to Catherine's question:
Of course no one can know what is in the heart or mind of a woman who dresses provocatively. But if a woman is desiring to honor God and honor men, then they will dress modestly so as not to encourage lustful thoughts. Perhaps a woman who is immature in her faith will not be aware of the consequences of her attire, and so in naivete she may continue to dress provocatively. But I doubt if any woman is really so naive as to not know that dressing provacatively brings undue attention to herself.

I also agree that body language and verbal language are good indicators of a woman's intention.

As far as being judgmental...  We all make judgments about people based upon their attire. It is disingenuous for anyone to claim that they don't. I for one do not apologize for making a prima facie assessment of a woman's character based upon her dress and her discourse. A provocatively clad woman may catch my eye; but a modest woman intrigues me intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually. And my gorgeous wife has intrigued me for 13 years, much to the chagrin of these Babylon trollops who can't understand why I won't chase after them!

   

Selam
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« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2009, 05:07:57 AM »

much to the chagrin of these Babylon trollops who can't understand why I won't chase after them!


Well, at least some women find you attractive.  Grin

I must say, I hate the word "trollop", Gebre Menfes Kidus, it is very judgmental and is only used to highlight the sins of others rather than our own sins. I live in a society in which my skirts and dresses are up to my knees (well, some of my dresses and skirts are up to my knees), I wear nice (sometimes tight "ish") tops, blouses, etc (that accentuate the female form). I do not dress a certain way to tempt you (men) or to try please you (not that I could or would want to anyway). "Tempting men" is certainly not on my mind. RE: lustful thoughts; I am an adult and therefore it is up to me to control myself. Lustful thoughts have been around for a very, very long time (regardless of how people dress).

Catherine
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« Reply #73 on: August 08, 2009, 05:12:42 AM »

I'm wondering what your feelings are about women's clothing, hairstyles etc. Do you prefer high maintance women with french manicures, jimmy choo shoes, coach/prada handbags, expensive jewelry, expensive hairstyles etc. over a woman who doesn't have these things?

I was always taught in my childhood that these things are worldly and that inner beauty was more important. Also, without a huge income, it's very difficult to even afford constant trips to the hairdresser, much less all the expensive clothing and handbags etc.

But I recently went out with a man who just sent me a message informing me basically that I needed an expensive hairstyle and a makeover. I was rather insulted by this, as I simply do not have even a job at present. How can I afford to spend money on such things? I love beautiful, expensive clothing as much as anyone, but how to afford it?

Is this what is important to you men? Please discuss.
Inner beauty is important to me.  I don't know why some women hang around men who are creeps.
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« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2009, 07:12:14 AM »

Personally I find modesty more attractive than anything else. Whenever I see women that dress to get attention,

Selam

 

Out of interest, how do you (guys) know they are dressing to get your attention?  Smiley Some women do dress to draw attention. ., but some women are still little girls inside and little girls love to dress up *cough. .like me  Smiley*  (if I were in a relationship, or married, I would dress to please my husband). On a serious note, how do guys tell the difference between an attention-seeking woman and a women who merely dresses for herself?

Actually, I do not think that if a woman dresses to get attention, it means that she is necessarily insecure. It may be "in the eyes of a beholder." My wife sometimes dresses to get attention, but she is very secure, and I think it's those men (or women), who pay too much attention to her when she is dressed to get attention, who are insecure.
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« Reply #75 on: August 08, 2009, 07:17:17 AM »

Lustful thoughts have been around for a very, very long time (regardless of how people dress).

But of course. And some men get a kick out of women who are dressed like nuns. It's described in the literature...
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« Reply #76 on: August 08, 2009, 07:19:15 AM »

LOL!  There must be a law somewhere that if you have a female friend, you will be subject to matchmaking.  Tongue


I've recently became a victim of my three friends doing such things on me. Quite an embarrassing situation.
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« Reply #77 on: August 08, 2009, 09:57:13 AM »

And why should anyone be judged by how they dress? Isn't this thread about that very point; being judged negatively, and negative critical comments? What makes a well-dressed woman weak and insecure? I have a friend who always looks gorgeous; I have never thought of her as weak and insecure. She loves to dress up whereas I can't be bothered. Just different strokes for different folks. And would a well-dressed man be seen as seeking attention and weak and insecure? If so, why should he? Can't people simply please themselves on how they attire themselves without people judging them as this or that?

Rosehip, you are lovely.

Why are you confusing "well-dressed" with a lack of modesty? I was clear in stating that I prefer modesty in a woman. To me well-dressed means modest attire, not immodest. That's my opinion, which was the inquiring solicitation of the original post of this thread.

Now in regards to Catherine's question:
Of course no one can know what is in the heart or mind of a woman who dresses provocatively. But if a woman is desiring to honor God and honor men, then they will dress modestly so as not to encourage lustful thoughts. Perhaps a woman who is immature in her faith will not be aware of the consequences of her attire, and so in naivete she may continue to dress provocatively. But I doubt if any woman is really so naive as to not know that dressing provacatively brings undue attention to herself.

I also agree that body language and verbal language are good indicators of a woman's intention.

As far as being judgmental...  We all make judgments about people based upon their attire. It is disingenuous for anyone to claim that they don't. I for one do not apologize for making a prima facie assessment of a woman's character based upon her dress and her discourse. A provocatively clad woman may catch my eye; but a modest woman intrigues me intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually. And my gorgeous wife has intrigued me for 13 years, much to the chagrin of these Babylon trollops who can't understand why I won't chase after them!
 
Selam

Babylon trollops!!??   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #78 on: August 08, 2009, 11:26:49 AM »

Dear Catherine and Riddikulus (and everyone else):

Please forgive my judgmental term "Babylon trollops." You are correct that this is not very Christian language, and I humbly accept the reprimand. Sometimes my fire spirit and poetic tongue get in the way of Christian charity. Thanks for pointing this out, and I'll try to do better in the future. Our Lord loves these "trollops," and thus I should love them too. (But in a much different way than I used to.)Embarrassed

Selam
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« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2009, 12:41:54 PM »

I guess I'll put my 2 cents in.

I don't think all guys are soley interested in physical attractiveness. To me, it isn't important as long as the person is taking care of themselves and trying to be healthy. Living with a bunch of guys in college has taught me that not all guys are soley focused on the physical aspects. The guys I live with are definitely constantly talking about who is "hot" and various other subjects innapropriate for this forum. But when it comes down to it, while they think they want someone that (according to our society) is physically stunning, they in fact look for other aspects first.

One of my best friends at college is dating our old RA (now graduated), she's very pretty, but our society may not put her up with the celebrities that many men gawk at. My other friend dated another friend of ours who is also pretty, but also probably wouldn't be considered in the same class as the celebrities. Not all guys are focused on the physical attractiveness.

Physical attractiveness isn't important. In my opinion, as long as the person cares about their appearance (that is, as far as hygiene, not makeup wise) and makes efforts to make sure they are physically healthy, as well as spiritually, then that shows more positive aspects of their personality.

I hope that makes sense. You don't have to be physically stunning or attractive. Just be yourself, don't worry about your physical aspects, just try to be healthy and hygienic.

One of my favorite Rock songs is by Evanescence (lead singer is Amy Lee), it's called "Everybody's Fool" and she wrote it about how we idolize & worship the models, socialites and celebrities, yet once they are no longer physically attractive, we throw them away. It appears she may have wrote it during Britney Spears' collapse & self-destruction.

The way our society views women is horrible, destructive and sinful. Many men recognize this and resist it. If someone doesn't like you for who you are physically, it's his problem, it isn't yours. You are created in God's image, don't worry about trying to improve parts of you that our society says are important/sexy.

I hope I helped and made sense! Smiley
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« Reply #80 on: August 08, 2009, 01:14:19 PM »

This is what is so extremely troubling and hurtful for me. I put hours of thought and time into dressing attractively and with femininity. I have extremely high standards for myself physically-not only physically, but also spiritually and chastity-wise. I love beauty and strive constantly for that. But all the same, the constant rude remarks, rejections and failures. I now have a checklist of cruel remarks that will be made and hold my breath, wondering which one it will be this time around...And this year, there have even been so-called godly, spiritually-minded Orthodox men who have completely led me on and stood me up.
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« Reply #81 on: August 08, 2009, 01:24:19 PM »

This is what is so extremely troubling and hurtful for me. I put hours of thought and time into dressing attractively and with femininity. I have extremely high standards for myself physically-not only physically, but also spiritually and chastity-wise. I love beauty and strive constantly for that. But all the same, the constant rude remarks, rejections and failures. I now have a checklist of cruel remarks that will be made and hold my breath, wondering which one it will be this time around...And this year, there have even been so-called godly, spiritually-minded Orthodox men who have completely led me on and stood me up.

I'm sorry to hear that. I wouldn't keep that list..........throw it away.
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« Reply #82 on: August 08, 2009, 01:27:29 PM »

This is what is so extremely troubling and hurtful for me. I put hours of thought and time into dressing attractively and with femininity. I have extremely high standards for myself physically-not only physically, but also spiritually and chastity-wise. I love beauty and strive constantly for that. But all the same, the constant rude remarks, rejections and failures. I now have a checklist of cruel remarks that will be made and hold my breath, wondering which one it will be this time around...And this year, there have even been so-called godly, spiritually-minded Orthodox men who have completely led me on and stood me up.
Lord have mercy,
I agree with jnorm888, throw the list away.

Are these men that are making these comments or men and women? It's really hard to be insulted by peers, especially if you are already beaten down. Have you spoken to your Priest or Spiritual Father about these things?
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« Reply #83 on: August 08, 2009, 01:40:28 PM »

This is what is so extremely troubling and hurtful for me. I put hours of thought and time into dressing attractively and with femininity. I have extremely high standards for myself physically-not only physically, but also spiritually and chastity-wise. I love beauty and strive constantly for that. But all the same, the constant rude remarks, rejections and failures. I now have a checklist of cruel remarks that will be made and hold my breath, wondering which one it will be this time around...And this year, there have even been so-called godly, spiritually-minded Orthodox men who have completely led me on and stood me up.

Dear Rosehip,

You are very beautiful, inside and out. Ignore the men who have disappointed you. And just because someone is raised Orthodox, it doesn't mean they know how to treat women respectfully or lovingly. I found that out when I was dating Orthodox men. In fact, some Orthodox cultures, unfortunately, look down on woman and treat them like second class citizens. Keep that in mind when you date. Perhaps you may want to date men who are new to the church and come from cultures which have a history of chivalry.

Many on this list have given you really great advice. Be confident in who you are. You know what you believe in and you know what you are looking for in a man. Expect the man you date to treat you respectfully and courteously.
Dress to please yourself. When you dress the way that makes you feel good about yourself and in a way that pleases you, it lets the men know out there you are a confident woman. Strength of character will help you attract the right kind of man and will keep the losers away from you.

love, Tamara  Kiss
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« Reply #84 on: August 08, 2009, 01:51:46 PM »

This is what is so extremely troubling and hurtful for me. I put hours of thought and time into dressing attractively and with femininity. I have extremely high standards for myself physically-not only physically, but also spiritually and chastity-wise. I love beauty and strive constantly for that. But all the same, the constant rude remarks, rejections and failures. I now have a checklist of cruel remarks that will be made and hold my breath, wondering which one it will be this time around...And this year, there have even been so-called godly, spiritually-minded Orthodox men who have completely led me on and stood me up.
Lord have mercy,
I agree with jnorm888, throw the list away.

Are these men that are making these comments or men and women? It's really hard to be insulted by peers, especially if you are already beaten down. Have you spoken to your Priest or Spiritual Father about these things?

There must be something wrong with the men in Canada for Rosehip is extremely attractive. I really don't understand...........I really don't.

It must be a Canadian thing or something.







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« Reply #85 on: August 08, 2009, 01:52:27 PM »

Roseship

I haven't seen a pic of you like others on here but I don't need to. (Although I'm always curious as to what posters on here look like) I hate to see you going through this and what a toll it seems to be taking on you. My sister is back in the dating scene after years out of it. She has meet a number of guys though online dating sites. I hear her tales and the feelings she experiences are not unlike what you have described. I think there is a good reason these guys are still single. No woman in her right mind would put up with them. Guys who are hung up on exes or who say cruel things... you are too wonderful to waste your time on them. Please don't take what they say and do to heart. I agree, get rid of the list. It isn't healthy for you to dwell on those things.
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« Reply #86 on: August 08, 2009, 01:57:01 PM »

People only hurt you because you let them, Rosehip; it's time to put a stop to it, sister, as I say, you are worth much more than this. Give, love, share, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out - who gives a monkey's. . anyway? - but make sure you have plenty of fun along the way . Whatever you do don't panic as in such situations one is likely to just accept any situation (it is indeed easier to push people away instead of risking a new relationship or give up completely). It is all in God's hands and I know He'll continue to bring you His peace. Stay close to your friends and Spiritual Father.
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« Reply #87 on: August 08, 2009, 01:59:50 PM »

Dear Catherine and Riddikulus (and everyone else):

Please forgive my judgmental term "Babylon trollops." You are correct that this is not very Christian language, and I humbly accept the reprimand. Sometimes my fire spirit and poetic tongue get in the way of Christian charity. Thanks for pointing this out, and I'll try to do better in the future. Our Lord loves these "trollops," and thus I should love them too. (But in a much different way than I used to.)Embarrassed

Selam

No worries - we all slip up at times (me more than most. .)

God Bless, GMK.
 
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« Reply #88 on: August 08, 2009, 02:02:16 PM »

Personally I find modesty more attractive than anything else. Whenever I see women that dress to get attention,

Selam

 

Out of interest, how do you (guys) know they are dressing to get your attention?  Smiley Some women do dress to draw attention. ., but some women are still little girls inside and little girls love to dress up *cough. .like me  Smiley*  (if I were in a relationship, or married, I would dress to please my husband). On a serious note, how do guys tell the difference between an attention-seeking woman and a women who merely dresses for herself?

Actually, I do not think that if a woman dresses to get attention, it means that she is necessarily insecure. It may be "in the eyes of a beholder." My wife sometimes dresses to get attention, but she is very secure, and I think it's those men (or women), who pay too much attention to her when she is dressed to get attention, who are insecure.

You sound like the perfect non-contolling husband, Heorhij. Some men would mind if their wives were dressing to attract attention. However, I am curious. . Do you not want her to dress solely for your attention?   Wink
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« Reply #89 on: August 08, 2009, 02:07:52 PM »

LOL!  There must be a law somewhere that if you have a female friend, you will be subject to matchmaking.  Tongue


I've recently became a victim of my three friends doing such things on me. Quite an embarrassing situation.

Mike, the golden rule of matchmaking is make sure that both parties are happy to take part. I hope things work out for you. . :-s

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« Reply #90 on: August 08, 2009, 02:12:35 PM »

Roseship

I haven't seen a pic of you like others on here but I don't need to. (Although I'm always curious as to what posters on here look like) I hate to see you going through this and what a toll it seems to be taking on you. My sister is back in the dating scene after years out of it. She has meet a number of guys though online dating sites. I hear her tales and the feelings she experiences are not unlike what you have described. I think there is a good reason these guys are still single. No woman in her right mind would put up with them. Guys who are hung up on exes or who say cruel things... you are too wonderful to waste your time on them. Please don't take what they say and do to heart. I agree, get rid of the list. It isn't healthy for you to dwell on those things.

The online men are terrible. Very cruel and rude. However, most of the men who have treated me like dirt are actually already in relationships. The man who completely destroyed my life a couple  years ago and who was a complete jerk, has, ironically, long since found someone. I really can't believe how easy it seems for others to find partners. And it is shocking for me to discover you can hardly find any men who believe in Biblical Christian principles of saving oneself in purity for one's future spouse. To me, this was always a no-brainer. Intimacy is sacred and precious and only for one's spouse, within marriage.
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« Reply #91 on: August 08, 2009, 02:28:25 PM »

Just a thought, but whereabouts do you live? That could play a key in the situation.
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« Reply #92 on: August 08, 2009, 03:37:19 PM »

Personally I find modesty more attractive than anything else. Whenever I see women that dress to get attention,

Selam

 

Out of interest, how do you (guys) know they are dressing to get your attention?  Smiley Some women do dress to draw attention. ., but some women are still little girls inside and little girls love to dress up *cough. .like me  Smiley*  (if I were in a relationship, or married, I would dress to please my husband). On a serious note, how do guys tell the difference between an attention-seeking woman and a women who merely dresses for herself?

Actually, I do not think that if a woman dresses to get attention, it means that she is necessarily insecure. It may be "in the eyes of a beholder." My wife sometimes dresses to get attention, but she is very secure, and I think it's those men (or women), who pay too much attention to her when she is dressed to get attention, who are insecure.

You sound like the perfect non-contolling husband, Heorhij. Some men would mind if their wives were dressing to attract attention. However, I am curious. . Do you not want her to dress solely for your attention?   Wink

You know, I never really thought about it. In my youth, I was what you can call a total "nerd" - I was all in books and science, and I had very little perception of the "real world." So when I began to date my future wife, and when we married, and for a good number of years after marriage, I never paid much attention to how she dresses or who might be paying attention to her. She even teased me, saying, oh boy, why in the world you are never jealous - look, these men are just dying for me, and it does not bother you? And it honestly, sincerely did not bother me. This same "nerdiness," detachment from the "real life" also prevented me (unfortunately) from noticing myself, how great my wife looks, how attractive she is. I guess I just took her for granted, and it hurt her, and I am sorry for that. Now, when I am already 51 1/2, I "grew up," and I pay a whole lot more attention to her; but I still do not want her to dress "solely for my attention." It's perfectly OK with me when others notice her. 
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« Reply #93 on: August 08, 2009, 04:03:42 PM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 
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« Reply #94 on: August 08, 2009, 04:05:57 PM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 

BV and I agree, Rosehip, so it has to be true. Tongue
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« Reply #95 on: August 08, 2009, 04:51:47 PM »

Roseship

I haven't seen a pic of you like others on here but I don't need to. (Although I'm always curious as to what posters on here look like) I hate to see you going through this and what a toll it seems to be taking on you. My sister is back in the dating scene after years out of it. She has meet a number of guys though online dating sites. I hear her tales and the feelings she experiences are not unlike what you have described. I think there is a good reason these guys are still single. No woman in her right mind would put up with them. Guys who are hung up on exes or who say cruel things... you are too wonderful to waste your time on them. Please don't take what they say and do to heart. I agree, get rid of the list. It isn't healthy for you to dwell on those things.

The online men are terrible. Very cruel and rude.

Well... once again, I think we need to be very careful about making sweeping generalizations. Online men are NOT terrible, cruel or rude. Some online men are these things but not all. As for Marat's sister and her experiences online... once again... they're HER experiences and not everyone's. Anytime you make a definitive statement, be careful that you are not using a broad brush stroke. For instance, I met my wife online of all places! Really? Uh huh! We just sort of bumped into one another on this forum and got to know one another for six months (chat, e-mails, telephone calls) before we actually met in person. Had we actually met in real life from the git-go, either one of us might have discounted the other for a variety of physical reasons. BUT we sort of fell in love with one another before actually meeting (as difficult as that might sound), we met... our love deepened... it is now nine years later and we're happily married. In fact, we're preparing for our fifth visit to Hawaii to celebrate that blessed day. I know of several who have met their current spouses online (some on OrthodoxCircle, some on other forums) and had no real issues.

Sure, there are jerks out there but there are also people just like yourself (myself) looking for love and companionship.
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« Reply #96 on: August 08, 2009, 05:23:49 PM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 

Like Ialmisry, I actually do not find her all that beautiful on the outside, too. She has strange, unkind eyes.
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« Reply #97 on: August 08, 2009, 05:34:48 PM »

She (Paris Hilton) wears far too much makeup. I once saw a picture of her without it and decided she is actually one of those girls who looks better without.

Douglas, I'm sorry, but I've went out with almost hundreds of online men. I've corresponded with this last particular man online for a little over a year before meeting him last week. There have been a couple good men, it is true, but they constituted only a tiny percentage. I've always been very generous about other people, always thinking I was the unworthy, not-good-enough person-always harsher and more judgmental towards myself than towards others, so I am not saying this to be cantankerous. A man whom I met online three years ago literally destroyed my life in a terrible way.

Another problem with online men is that they are chatting with many women simultaneously and to them you are nothing-there are hundreds more out there-you mean literally nothing to them at all. Now, when I was young and all my friends were dating, they did it the natural way and once they were dating, their boyfriends barely even looked at, or spoke to, other girls. They were taught from young up to be loyal and faithful to their girlfriends and wives.

I happen to be one of those people who simply cannot relax and be trusting when I know a man is not loving and cherishing me as I do him. If I know he is chatting with hundreds of others behind my back and is not at all serious about me, then it's too much for me to deal with-especially when I've never, ever had the experience of being loved and cherished by a man whom I love and care for.
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« Reply #98 on: August 08, 2009, 05:43:47 PM »

Another problem I've had with many of these men I've met online is that when we meet up for coffee etc., many of them spend the whole time they're with me, openly checking out other women, even turning and staring with open mouths as some other girl walks by while you are speaking. This behaviour is enough to cause you to commit suicide, believe me.
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« Reply #99 on: August 08, 2009, 06:04:11 PM »

I think, that, if someone cares about expensive clothing  etc. and, even more, if sb demands expensive vanities clothing etc., is certainly not the one(laughing).  Smiley

It's true, that a lot of people nowadays are completely vain regarding their beliefs, which are depicted in the their ....whole lifestyle, of course. Even in Greece, in which we had neved had Capitalist "values" being regarded as sth special or sth that stems from tradition of a kind. I mean consumerism, utilitarianism (in the "vulgar" sense), materialism etc.

And personally, the less "ornaments" and decoration a young woman, let's say, has the more I tend to regard her as a sister in Christ and appreciate her, with all the significance.

But it is important, that the key to true bliss in the true, i.e. Christian sense, is that we shouldn't care about whether someone loves us or adores us and so forth. Love does not ask its own. When you love another person, you are already complete internally...  Smiley
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« Reply #100 on: August 08, 2009, 07:52:57 PM »






 In my youth, I was what you can call a total "nerd" - I was all in books and science, and I had very little perception of the "real world." This same "nerdiness," detachment from the "real life". .


Try not to beat yourself up too much - a detachment from  "real life" and emotions comes with the territory in male scientists.  Smiley 



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Also, it is a well know fact. .when it comes to reading women's minds, men are complete and utter illiterates.  Tongue
 
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It's perfectly OK with me when others notice her. 


On a serious note. . .

Once again, you seem like a very secure person, Heorhij. I truly believe if we are to find true happiness, we must look deep within ourselves; we must accept ourselves exactly as we are - true happiness and confidence comes from within. Feelings of jealousy and insecurity are a sign of deep unhappiness and fear. Of course, on the one hand there is taking sensible responsibility for what God has given us and an unbalanced obsession based on the world's criteria - there needs to be a healthy balance as "self esteem at either end of the spectrum" is not healthy.
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« Reply #101 on: August 08, 2009, 08:00:23 PM »




 I truly believe if we are to find true happiness, we must look deep within ourselves; we must accept ourselves exactly as we are - true happiness and confidence comes from within. Feelings of jealousy and insecurity are a sign of deep unhappiness and fear. Of course, on the one hand there is taking sensible responsibility for what God has given us and an unbalanced obsession based on the world's criteria - there needs to be a healthy balance as "self esteem at either end of the spectrum" is not healthy.

Excellent advice. There's much wisdom packed into these few lines. Smiley
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« Reply #102 on: August 08, 2009, 08:05:08 PM »

And if we accept ourselves, but others are constantly rejecting us? What then? How does one come to terms with this rejection which impacts our entire life? The difference between having been allowed to marry and have children and be a homemaker or a life of losing dream after dream??? I really don't think anyone here who so easily gets married at the drop of the hat without having to have been alone for decades simply doesn't understand the grief and loss involved.
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« Reply #103 on: August 08, 2009, 08:17:51 PM »

I happen to be one of those people who simply cannot relax and be trusting when I know a man is not loving and cherishing me as I do him. If I know he is chatting with hundreds of others behind my back and is not at all serious about me, then it's too much for me to deal with-especially when I've never, ever had the experience of being loved and cherished by a man whom I love and care for.

Oh my, I really do not know about this world of on-line "relationships" - like I say to my students, I am a dinosaur who was shaped in the USSR of the 1970-s - 1980-s where computers were not a regular part of our lives; but I can imagine how hurtful it is to a good, honest, sincere, pure person like you, Rosehip, to come to the understanding that these lonely men are "talking" to scores of "girls," anticipating that "something will work out..." I kind of "peeked" into this world (my bad), in 1998-2000, when my wife and I were temporarily separated for job-searching reasons, and we grew angry and frustrated with each other, and our marriage was all but shattered; - and I have a hunch that it's tough....

What hurts me, honestly, is that some of these "online-talking" men might be professed Christians... and yes, I can imagine that they talk a lot to various "girls," casting a broad net. It's all self-serving perhaps, or most of it is.

Something will work out still, dear sister, I just know it. I am praying for you every day anyway and I know that some others (people better than I) are praying for you, too.

Best wishes and prayers,

G.
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« Reply #104 on: August 08, 2009, 08:28:04 PM »

And if we accept ourselves, but others are constantly rejecting us? What then? How does one come to terms with this rejection which impacts our entire life? The difference between having been allowed to marry and have children and be a homemaker or a life of losing dream after dream??? I really don't think anyone here who so easily gets married at the drop of the hat without having to have been alone for decades simply doesn't understand the grief and loss involved.

I am one of those, I know! I have been blessed with a wife and a child and a wonderful family of in-laws; and all that was not "just," - because I know that I do not deserve all that! And yes, in all honesty, I think about people who are not blessed the way I am, but I realize that I cannot experience what they experience...

Rosehip, dear sis, I just hope and look forward to the day when we ALL come together, married and single and divorced and remarried and whatever-whatever-whatever... whatever, and be together, rewarded, happy, blessed, blissful... and we will hug the kids who are not "my" or "yours" or "theirs," but the kids who are all "ours," and we will sing with joy, and dance, and sport all the best and most beautiful artistically designed clothes, and be what we all really are meant, by our God, to be...
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« Reply #105 on: August 08, 2009, 08:36:55 PM »

People only hurt you because you let them, Rosehip; it's time to put a stop to it, sister, as I say, you are worth much more than this. Give, love, share, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out - who gives a monkey's. . anyway? - but make sure you have plenty of fun along the way . Whatever you do don't panic as in such situations one is likely to just accept any situation (it is indeed easier to push people away instead of risking a new relationship or give up completely). It is all in God's hands and I know He'll continue to bring you His peace. Stay close to your friends and Spiritual Father.

Catherine has some jolly good advice. Rosehip, I have found that too many people - online and in real life - are control freaks. They think it their right to express any opinion they so wish about anyone else, about what one reads, what one wears, what one thinks; but when the compliment is returned, they crumble into whining messes; shocked that anyone could stand up to them. I'm not suggesting that you learn to give as good as you get, but it's probably time to draw on some inner resolve and truly "not give a hoot" what people think or say about you. I know that you are looking for a companion, but as far as I know, there's never been an easy way to do that. But if you allow yourself to be vulnerable in this process, you will continue to be disheartened and hurt. Don't let shallow people do that to you. 
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« Reply #106 on: August 08, 2009, 08:39:20 PM »

Dear Catherine and Riddikulus (and everyone else):

Please forgive my judgmental term "Babylon trollops." You are correct that this is not very Christian language, and I humbly accept the reprimand. Sometimes my fire spirit and poetic tongue get in the way of Christian charity. Thanks for pointing this out, and I'll try to do better in the future. Our Lord loves these "trollops," and thus I should love them too. (But in a much different way than I used to.)Embarrassed

Selam

Apology accepted, Gebre.
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« Reply #107 on: August 08, 2009, 09:02:29 PM »

And if we accept ourselves, but others are constantly rejecting us? What then? How does one come to terms with this rejection which impacts our entire life? The difference between having been allowed to marry and have children and be a homemaker or a life of losing dream after dream??? I really don't think anyone here who so easily gets married at the drop of the hat without having to have been alone for decades simply doesn't understand the grief and loss involved.

Rosehip, the stuffing has been knocked out of you (to put it mildly). These feelings or struggles are perfectly normal. On the subject of pain, loss and rejection - how many times have I been there? - I relate to what you say (again) as we have much in common (I recently walked away from a very abusive relationship, for example - I suffered mental abuse, verbal abuse, jealousy, control games -  I gave my whole self and my whole soul and he, basically, treated me like dirt. There is no "I am sorry," no remorse). God does fill us with peace, we have a laugh and a joke, we make the most of life, but some wounds may stay with us even if we take them to Christ, that is, the emotions, or thoughts, return now and then. The Christian life is not always easy (in the words of Leonard Cohen. ."Love is not a victory march":-s) and all Christians realise that the carrying of their own cross, pain, suffering is part of  life. Jesus, of course, holds our hand, but we have emotions which we cannot just switch off easily. I am sure Christ can see the bigger picture and He does bring good out of difficult situations. In hindsight, I am glad that it all happened that way  because I look at my spiritual progress from then to now. The worst feeling in the world is loneliness - I hope you have good friends and lots of support. I was in a very strange place for quite a while; I became rather cold and kept my emotional distance from everyone. Anyway, to cut a long story short, I have decided. . I am not going to allow others to make me hard and cold. Try to not become cynical and disheartened as you have still got a lot of time to find the right person - God-willing. I know God is with you, keep trusting Him. You are in my prayers.
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« Reply #108 on: August 08, 2009, 09:17:31 PM »

And if we accept ourselves, but others are constantly rejecting us? What then? How does one come to terms with this rejection which impacts our entire life? The difference between having been allowed to marry and have children and be a homemaker or a life of losing dream after dream??? I really don't think anyone here who so easily gets married at the drop of the hat without having to have been alone for decades simply doesn't understand the grief and loss involved.

Rosehip, there are no guarantees with this life. Perhaps many, many people get married easily and do all the things that you have dreams to do, but many, many of those same people are turning up in court with destroyed relationships and lives, bitter ongoing battles and heartbroken kids. Marriage isn't a guarantee that life will be a dream; in fact I know married people who are breaking their necks to get out of their situations; to be single again. Often they are women who married without having acheived self-definition or individuality of character. They wish they could turn back the clock and become the people they long to be; instead of some kind of extension of their husband's choices. Marriage, to them, has prevented them from being *real people*. They had imagined that having a partner would somehow complete them, but it didn't.

I know you want a shot at marriage; and I pray you get the chance. But perhaps finding yourself; defining yourself; being assured of yourself might be the most important issue at this point of your life. As Catherine has already said; who gives a monkey's what other people think about you. What is important is what you know about yourself, how comfortable you are with yourself.

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« Reply #109 on: August 09, 2009, 02:47:19 AM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 

Like Ialmisry, I actually do not find her all that beautiful on the outside, too. She has strange, unkind eyes.

Now now Heorhij. Remember that you are quick to condemn me for being judgmental. Why pick on poor Paris? Although I agree with your assessment, I doubt if you would have allowed me to make the same remarks. Just saying. Wink

Selam
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« Reply #110 on: August 09, 2009, 02:54:18 AM »

Another problem I've had with many of these men I've met online is that when we meet up for coffee etc., many of them spend the whole time they're with me, openly checking out other women, even turning and staring with open mouths as some other girl walks by while you are speaking. This behaviour is enough to cause you to commit suicide, believe me.

Don't speak such things my dear sister!!! Our Lord loves you just as you are. Never let the opinions of fools determine your self worth or your fate.

I know it sounds trite, but if we seek our contentment in Christ Himself then the other things will follow. "Delight yourself in the Lord, and He shall give you the desires of your heart." [Psalm 37:4]

Selam
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« Reply #111 on: August 10, 2009, 02:23:28 AM »

Hey--These look like Midwestern women!  The kind of women I see most around here and fit in with the most.  Cheesy


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« Reply #112 on: August 10, 2009, 04:12:46 AM »

I'm wondering what your feelings are about women's clothing, hairstyles etc.
They don't suit me.

Seriously though, men have a different way of noticing things like hairstyles and dress which is, basically, not to notice them.
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« Reply #113 on: August 10, 2009, 05:53:42 AM »

(hugs Rose) It's ok, love! You may feel alone in this pain, which is what the Devil wants, but you're not carrying your cross alone! If you dressed like the women that these men oggle, you would be throwing away your dignity. A woman was not meant to be stared at like a T-bone steak. You once told me that you used to wear hijab. Could you start wearing it again? The worthy man will see you for you, although it seems godly-acting men are going the way of the dinosaurs. Maybe....someone here might smile at you?  Wink angel
You come off as very gentle, very modest.
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« Reply #114 on: August 10, 2009, 06:07:57 AM »

No matter how pretty a woman is on the outside, it is the heart and soul that will determine her real beauty. I know women who are beautiful on the outside, but ugly on the inside, and vice versa. (And I know some beautiful inside & outside). I guess as you get older you become more wiser (supposedly), and sure, looks are nice, but they fade with time, but a good heart and soul is long lasting.
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« Reply #115 on: August 10, 2009, 10:17:24 AM »

although it seems godly-acting men are going the way of the dinosaurs.


Here we go again with the generalizations. Godly acting men (whatever that actually means) are NOT going the way of the dinosaur anymore than women. It's one thing to sympathize with Rosehip and to offer her prayer support and encouragement and it's quite another to make derogatory remarks about men which is totally uncalled for. Let's show some restraint as well as exercise some common sense in this discussion.
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« Reply #116 on: August 10, 2009, 10:24:35 AM »

although it seems godly-acting men are going the way of the dinosaurs.


Here we go again with the generalizations. Godly acting men (whatever that actually means) are NOT going the way of the dinosaur anymore than women. It's one thing to sympathize with Rosehip and to offer her prayer support and encouragement and it's quite another to make derogatory remarks about men which is totally uncalled for. Let's show some restraint as well as exercise some common sense in this discussion.

I agree.

Selam
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« Reply #117 on: August 10, 2009, 10:38:20 AM »


I would agree.  There are some pretty rotten women out there, as well!

Rosehip,  you simply have to have faith that if God wishes for you to find a mate, you will - when the time is right. 
Don't worry so much about it.  You still have lots of "time".

As for dressing - dress the way that makes YOU feel good. 

Go to places that you enjoy.
If you love art, hang out at the art museums.  If you love to read, spend time at the bookstore. 

I hope you find what you are looking for, however, keep in mind that marriage isn't always "perfect" and sometimes isn't what's best for you.

It might be God wants to use you in some other way.

Don't push it.  Don't give up, but, don't make it the single focus and goal of your life, otherwise, you might be greatly disappointed.

My mother always told me to be happy, at whatever juncture I find myself at in life.  Depend on God and yourself.  Don't look for a man to make your life "easy".  Expect to live on your own, and if God so wills to send you a man, than he is just the frosting on your cake.

However, you can live on cake, alone, without the frosting.   Fewer calories!   Cheesy

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« Reply #118 on: August 10, 2009, 10:58:34 AM »


I would agree.  There are some pretty rotten women out there, as well!

Rosehip,  you simply have to have faith that if God wishes for you to find a mate, you will - when the time is right. 
Don't worry so much about it.  You still have lots of "time".

As for dressing - dress the way that makes YOU feel good. 

Go to places that you enjoy.
If you love art, hang out at the art museums.  If you love to read, spend time at the bookstore. 

I hope you find what you are looking for, however, keep in mind that marriage isn't always "perfect" and sometimes isn't what's best for you.

It might be God wants to use you in some other way.

Don't push it.  Don't give up, but, don't make it the single focus and goal of your life, otherwise, you might be greatly disappointed.

My mother always told me to be happy, at whatever juncture I find myself at in life.  Depend on God and yourself.  Don't look for a man to make your life "easy".  Expect to live on your own, and if God so wills to send you a man, than he is just the frosting on your cake.

However, you can live on cake, alone, without the frosting.   Fewer calories!   Cheesy


Excellent wisdom!

Contentment is such a difficult thing to obtain. I think if we are all honest, we would confess our discontent about many of our circumstances. It is so hard to feel and experience what we profess and believe. We don't want to complain, because we think it's unChristian. We tell ourselves that wherever we are, God is there with us. And this is true. But yet it doesn't seem to assuage the agony we're experiencing at the moment.

Sometimes I offer what I think is Christian advice, but it comes across as trite and devoid of empathy. And yet I have suffered and struggled so much in my life- as have most of us. I have ben married for 13 years, and I have 3 great children. But family life is challenging and accompanied by many trials and tribualtions. My wife and I have been through some very, very tough times. But I remember a time in my life where I thought I would never marry, and I really questioned God.

So, contentment is something I still struggle to obtain. Perhaps the key is learning to be content even in suffering. I think the Saints and ascetics teach us this. In this sinful world we cannot flee from suffering. All we can do is try to understand its purpose and try to learn from it. We have to try to allow our suffering to draw us nearer to God. And we have to realize that our experiences of suffering will better allow us to empathize and minister to others who are also hurting.

Selam
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« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2009, 11:35:58 AM »


I would agree.  There are some pretty rotten women out there, as well!

Rosehip,  you simply have to have faith that if God wishes for you to find a mate, you will - when the time is right. 
Don't worry so much about it.  You still have lots of "time".

As for dressing - dress the way that makes YOU feel good. 

Go to places that you enjoy.
If you love art, hang out at the art museums.  If you love to read, spend time at the bookstore. 

I hope you find what you are looking for, however, keep in mind that marriage isn't always "perfect" and sometimes isn't what's best for you.

It might be God wants to use you in some other way.

Don't push it.  Don't give up, but, don't make it the single focus and goal of your life, otherwise, you might be greatly disappointed.

My mother always told me to be happy, at whatever juncture I find myself at in life.  Depend on God and yourself.  Don't look for a man to make your life "easy".  Expect to live on your own, and if God so wills to send you a man, than he is just the frosting on your cake.

However, you can live on cake, alone, without the frosting.   Fewer calories!   Cheesy


Excellent wisdom!

Contentment is such a difficult thing to obtain. I think if we are all honest, we would confess our discontent about many of our circumstances. It is so hard to feel and experience what we profess and believe. We don't want to complain, because we think it's unChristian. We tell ourselves that wherever we are, God is there with us. And this is true. But yet it doesn't seem to assuage the agony we're experiencing at the moment.

Sometimes I offer what I think is Christian advice, but it comes across as trite and devoid of empathy. And yet I have suffered and struggled so much in my life- as have most of us. I have ben married for 13 years, and I have 3 great children. But family life is challenging and accompanied by many trials and tribualtions. My wife and I have been through some very, very tough times. But I remember a time in my life where I thought I would never marry, and I really questioned God.

So, contentment is something I still struggle to obtain. Perhaps the key is learning to be content even in suffering. I think the Saints and ascetics teach us this. In this sinful world we cannot flee from suffering. All we can do is try to understand its purpose and try to learn from it. We have to try to allow our suffering to draw us nearer to God. And we have to realize that our experiences of suffering will better allow us to empathize and minister to others who are also hurting.

Selam

This is excellent advice. .
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« Reply #120 on: August 10, 2009, 12:16:44 PM »



However, you can live on cake, alone, without the frosting.   Fewer calories!   Cheesy



How did you get to be so smart?  Wink Cheesy
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« Reply #121 on: August 10, 2009, 12:40:45 PM »

To me, a lot of what makes a woman attractive is not necessarily her hairstyle or clothing, but her self-confidence.  I have a friend who is physically very beautiful but she is so insecure and awkward around men that she has never really been able to attract much attention from guys.  On the flip side, I have had several friends who wouldn't get a second glance from modelling agencies but they are quite happily married or enjoying an active dating life.  Part of appearance and attraction is exuding the inner beauty you have confidently and maturely, and the real trick is to do it without thinking about it. 
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« Reply #122 on: August 10, 2009, 01:20:07 PM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 

Like Ialmisry, I actually do not find her all that beautiful on the outside, too. She has strange, unkind eyes.

Now now Heorhij. Remember that you are quick to condemn me for being judgmental. Why pick on poor Paris? Although I agree with your assessment, I doubt if you would have allowed me to make the same remarks. Just saying. Wink

Selam

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« Reply #123 on: August 10, 2009, 01:44:36 PM »

I think most men like internal & external beauty. In general, guys are very visual.....it's just how we are wired. In my opinion, it is unattractive if a woman just "let's herself go" or dresses like an Amish. On the other hand, I don't like Paris Hilton types who are consumed with external beauty, but are ugly on the inside.

 

Like Ialmisry, I actually do not find her all that beautiful on the outside, too. She has strange, unkind eyes.

Now now Heorhij. Remember that you are quick to condemn me for being judgmental. Why pick on poor Paris? Although I agree with your assessment, I doubt if you would have allowed me to make the same remarks. Just saying. Wink

Selam

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Have you two boys always been like this?  Cheesy
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« Reply #124 on: August 10, 2009, 02:05:41 PM »

keep the thread on track or I will lock it.  There is a random post thread here in Other Topics already.  -username!section moderator.
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« Reply #125 on: August 10, 2009, 07:40:03 PM »

although it seems godly-acting men are going the way of the dinosaurs.


Here we go again with the generalizations. Godly acting men (whatever that actually means) are NOT going the way of the dinosaur anymore than women. It's one thing to sympathize with Rosehip and to offer her prayer support and encouragement and it's quite another to make derogatory remarks about men which is totally uncalled for. Let's show some restraint as well as exercise some common sense in this discussion.

Understood. Sorry for the offense! Smiley
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« Reply #126 on: August 10, 2009, 07:56:50 PM »

And if we accept ourselves, but others are constantly rejecting us? What then? How does one come to terms with this rejection which impacts our entire life? The difference between having been allowed to marry and have children and be a homemaker or a life of losing dream after dream??? I really don't think anyone here who so easily gets married at the drop of the hat without having to have been alone for decades simply doesn't understand the grief and loss involved.

I am one of those, I know! I have been blessed with a wife and a child and a wonderful family of in-laws; and all that was not "just," - because I know that I do not deserve all that! And yes, in all honesty, I think about people who are not blessed the way I am, but I realize that I cannot experience what they experience...

Rosehip, dear sis, I just hope and look forward to the day when we ALL come together, married and single and divorced and remarried and whatever-whatever-whatever... whatever, and be together, rewarded, happy, blessed, blissful... and we will hug the kids who are not "my" or "yours" or "theirs," but the kids who are all "ours," and we will sing with joy, and dance, and sport all the best and most beautiful artistically designed clothes, and be what we all really are meant, by our God, to be...

Wow. Beautiful words, George! *&#^% beautiful words! Grin
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« Reply #127 on: August 10, 2009, 08:02:44 PM »

Dear Rosehip,

You are clearly in a difficult place, where even your efforts to climb out of it work somehow hinder your quest to find a life mate. I think that the only way you are going to get out of this predicament is for you to leave this matter in God's hands--"Thy will be done" is the ultimate liberating prayer. It helped me in a similar quandary.

In any case, once your fate is in His hands, your peace of mind will be so much greater that you true-self will naturally radiate out like an aura. Then, God's will for you will be realized and you will be happy.
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« Reply #128 on: August 10, 2009, 08:14:34 PM »

It is also important to remember that not all married people got married easily and at the drop of a hat. I can promise you that nothing about my life prior to my marriage was easy. And I can tell you many heart breaking stories of things my wife and I went through before we finally got married. I can also tell you that nothing about marriage is easy at all. My family is the greatest blessing in my life apart from Christ and His Church, but it is not easy. It is heartache and pain and joy and struggle and highs and lows and hopes and disappointments and fears and expectations and doubts and temptations and resentment and pleasure and guilt and victory and loss and life and death and... I could keep going. In other words, it's just like life. It's reality. It's hard work. But it's worth fighting for. Of that I'm absolutely certain!

So keep fighting Rosehip! Smiley

Selam
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« Reply #129 on: August 12, 2009, 02:45:40 AM »

Dear Rosehip,

In my 20s I went through something similar, except I was far from having any sort of Christian piety (unknown to me, and goodness knows I am still working on it). I swear I had "mistress" stamped on my forehead, but not intentionally. I'd start dating someone and find out he was married/had a serious girlfriend - one guy worked in the same company as my best friend and he asked her to set up a date with me after we chatted briefly at a party. She started working on it until she found out he was getting married in a week! This sort of thing happened regularly.

But despite the clear differences (me being of a far more, ahem, worldly sort), I felt much the same frustration as you. By the way, are you actually Canadian (someone mentioned that...)? My personal opinion is many (certainly not all) Canadian men have a bit of a Peter Pan complex going on. Perhaps this is part of the reason I married a Russian fellow - he felt no fear when discussing, 6 months into our relationship, future wishes and expectation (kids, marriage and the like), unlike many a Canadian fellow I've met (although Canadian men are certainly lovely in many ways - I just don't know if I'd marry one).

Anyway, my story and many others I've met goes like this: you've given up in total frustration and heartbreak, and just decide, perhaps with a level of sorrow, that there is no hope of ever getting married and men are just jerks etc (please don't jump on me guys, I know this is not true, but when you get frustrated this is the way you start to think), and you just get on with your life and BAM! That's when the good ones come along. It's true. They (the guys) sense your desperation (and you might not think of yourself as exuding a desperate persona, but trust me on this one, you almost assuredly are in your own way - desperation does not automatically mean that you throw yourselves at the boys - it manifests itself in many ways) and this will work against you.

My recommendation is to forget the online stuff (can't say I've ever done it, so I'm sure it does work - in fact I know it does work - on occasion), but try VOLUNTEERING for something you either really enjoy doing (although quilting doesn't count as you probably won't find the kind of boys you'd want to marry) or you really believe in. I met my husband when I decided to volunteer backstage (props etc.) in a local semi-professional theatre on a bit of a whim while reminiscing about some of the enjoyable times in my childhood. My mom did some acting in local theatre, and she'd drag me and my brother to rehearsals and occasionally make us participate in the action in the children's Christmas plays. It was a blast, particularly as many of the actors were Brits and they were really quite hilarious.

I digress yet a zillionth time again. So, my husband was the director of this play I volunteered for. I also had a choice of the lead actor (also an opera singer). Fortunately I went with the director, which not only led me to a really great guy (although being an artistic type there is no hope I'll ever be a homemaker - just a warning as you indicated earlier that this was a dream of yours), but also led me to Orthodoxy - a great gift of which I sadly do not take nearly enough advantage.

I think volunteering is a great way to go. You participate in something in which you love/enjoy/believe, build extra skills, and meet like-minded folk/men. And you give to society in many way (and message to Heorhij - it doesn't have to be the kind of volunteering that gives you the heebie-jeebies - cultural volunteering usually has no self-righteousness involved. Is there such as thing a wine-tasting volunteering??? Saving society from bad wine???)

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« Reply #130 on: August 12, 2009, 09:56:10 AM »

I've never had any luck with Russian men. Everyone has told me they prefer their own-Russian women, and I've found it to be so. Even Russian women however, has warned me constantly about their men. They do not have good track records as far as keeping themselves pure before marriage goes(I do not want to contract all sorts of STDs) and also, are not known to be faithful afterwards. And many of them drink and smoke and this is really not what I want at all. The minute I see a man lighting up, it completely turns me off.
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« Reply #131 on: August 12, 2009, 10:32:06 AM »

Let's see if I have this right: Canadian men (many Canadian men that is) have a Peter Pan complex. Russian men are a special group of their own... only preferring Russian women and even Russian women warn others of them. All online searching is dangerous and leads to problems. Generalization after generalization after generalization. Perhaps some of the problems relate directly to "some" of us making sweeping generalizations. Has that ever occurred to any contributors here?

Men (whether Russian, Canadian, American, Swahili, Serbian, Finnish etc etc etc) are men. It's a given that culture and cultural traditions will enter into how men behave BUT the bottom line is: they are NOT all the same and they should NOT all be lumped together as though they were.

As for online romances... I met my wife online and it's now going on nine years of blissful marriage. I can't imagine my life without her. Furthermore, I can point to several other happy marriages all of which occurred through a chance meeting online.

There are no guarantees... period. Volunteering is a great idea but it is no guarantee that you will find one of the good ones. You've just as much chance of meeting a jerk there as anywhere else. Having the priest set up a date is no guarantee, nor is being set up by a relative, a friend or a co-worker a guarantee. There are none.

It's been said countless times in this thread now and it bears repeating. First one must find contentment and peace with oneself. In so doing he/she will exude confidence and THAT quality is certainly a good one in attracting others. I love my wife's sense of humor. She is one of the happiest, sweetest gals I've ever come across. But I had to get to know that quality and I've a sense that had I met her in a physical manner (as opposed to online) I might have dismissed her. I'm just thankful that we met the way we did.

I work with a woman in her early 40's (42 I believe) who also wants to find a husband. We were talking about this the other day and she remarked, "You know... I really hope to meet this man of my dreams some day BUT if I don't... I will still be happy with the life I now live. I'm content in my job and I have several interests that occupy me. Life is still good." I truly believe she is going to meet that special someone because of her attitude more than anything else. And it will happen in good time. But if I'm wrong, evidently she is content with the life with which God has blessed her.

Rosehip, I pray that you will find contentment within and of course I hope and pray that ultimately you will find someone special. There has been so much great advice in this thread. I really encourage you to go back and re-read many of the replies. (just ignore the generalizations as being well-intentioned but way off-course)
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« Reply #132 on: August 12, 2009, 10:44:13 AM »

Let's see if I have this right: Canadian men (many Canadian men that is) have a Peter Pan complex. Russian men are a special group of their own... only preferring Russian women and even Russian women warn others of them. All online searching is dangerous and leads to problems. Generalization after generalization after generalization. Perhaps some of the problems relate directly to "some" of us making sweeping generalizations. Has that ever occurred to any contributors here?

Men (whether Russian, Canadian, American, Swahili, Serbian, Finnish etc etc etc) are men. It's a given that culture and cultural traditions will enter into how men behave BUT the bottom line is: they are NOT all the same and they should NOT all be lumped together as though they were.

As for online romances... I met my wife online and it's now going on nine years of blissful marriage. I can't imagine my life without her. Furthermore, I can point to several other happy marriages all of which occurred through a chance meeting online.

There are no guarantees... period. Volunteering is a great idea but it is no guarantee that you will find one of the good ones. You've just as much chance of meeting a jerk there as anywhere else. Having the priest set up a date is no guarantee, nor is being set up by a relative, a friend or a co-worker a guarantee. There are none.

It's been said countless times in this thread now and it bears repeating. First one must find contentment and peace with oneself. In so doing he/she will exude confidence and THAT quality is certainly a good one in attracting others. I love my wife's sense of humor. She is one of the happiest, sweetest gals I've ever come across. But I had to get to know that quality and I've a sense that had I met her in a physical manner (as opposed to online) I might have dismissed her. I'm just thankful that we met the way we did.

I work with a woman in her early 40's (42 I believe) who also wants to find a husband. We were talking about this the other day and she remarked, "You know... I really hope to meet this man of my dreams some day BUT if I don't... I will still be happy with the life I now live. I'm content in my job and I have several interests that occupy me. Life is still good." I truly believe she is going to meet that special someone because of her attitude more than anything else. And it will happen in good time. But if I'm wrong, evidently she is content with the life with which God has blessed her.

Rosehip, I pray that you will find contentment within and of course I hope and pray that ultimately you will find someone special. There has been so much great advice in this thread. I really encourage you to go back and re-read many of the replies. (just ignore the generalizations as being well-intentioned but way off-course)

I completely agree with all you said.

Rosehip, it is obvious that a lot of people love and care about you. Try to focus on that. I can tell that your heart is hurting, and I applaud you for sharing your pain so openly. That takes a lot of courage and faith. But there is no perfect man. And if/when you do get married, you will both quickly realize that there are a lot of flaws in each other. But you will also realize that there is so much more good about each other as well. The perfect man does not exist. The perfect Christian does not exist. And believe it or not, you are not the perfect woman (and I know you don't think that you are.) Just focus on positive things. I sense you spiraling into negativity and anger, which is certainly understandable. But try not to give satan a foothold. You are a beautiful person Rosehip, so keep moving forward and shake the dust from your feet. OK?

Selam
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« Reply #133 on: August 12, 2009, 10:45:54 AM »

You must visit Great Britain, Rosehip. You would be most welcome (I have only had one bad experience with an English man). True English gentlemen value politeness; they strive to keep proper form toward other people, at all times. I rather enjoy their dry humor also. Some English men might be serious adulterers, but they do it in a polite and correct maner. Grin Tally-ho. . .



Colin Firth. . .*Sigh*
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« Reply #134 on: August 12, 2009, 10:47:32 AM »


I work with a woman in her early 40's (42 I believe) who also wants to find a husband. We were talking about this the other day and she remarked, "You know... I really hope to meet this man of my dreams some day BUT if I don't... I will still be happy with the life I now live. I'm content in my job and I have several interests that occupy me. Life is still good."

I didn't know you were sitting in the cube next to mine!  Hey, lets do lunch!
 Grin

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« Reply #135 on: August 12, 2009, 11:03:08 AM »

You're a riot, Liza.  Cheesy
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« Reply #136 on: August 12, 2009, 11:07:40 AM »

You must visit Great Britain, Rosehip. You would be most welcome (I have only had one bad experience with an English man). True English gentlemen value politeness; they strive to keep proper form toward other people, at all times. I rather enjoy their dry humor also. Some English men might be serious adulterers, but they do it in a polite and correct maner. Grin Tally-ho. . .


Ha! So is this guy!

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« Reply #137 on: August 12, 2009, 11:42:52 AM »

Ah - makes me proud to be British!   Smiley
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« Reply #138 on: August 12, 2009, 12:45:03 PM »

Rosehip,

I think you might have better luck at finding a husband in an Antiochian Orthodox parish that has many men who are new to the faith. The men I have encountered in the parish I now attend are intelligent gentleman and very faithful to their wives. These men are some of the most ethical and kind men I have ever met in my life. Many come from an evangelical background but not all. Some are former Episcopalians and Roman Catholics. They all make Orthodoxy the centerpiece of their lives. Recently, while traveling, I met some men from another Antiochian Orthodox parish across the country who are very similar to the men in my parish. You may be able to find the same quality of man in an OCA parish which has many who are new to the faith. Just another idea.

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« Reply #139 on: August 12, 2009, 12:53:48 PM »

Tamara,

Thanks for the advice, but I don't think there is an Antiochian church anywhere close to me. There is an OCA church, but it consists of mostly new Russian immigrants, and most of the these people are all married with children.

And I've been on so many dating sites and went out with scores of men. Most men seem mostly interested in watching TV, sports, poker, racing, and other things which are completely foreign to me. I know Douglas doesn't like generalizations, but then he wasn't single for 40 years of his life and hasn't had the same experiences I've had. I'm not good at lying, so my experiences with men are unfortunately all true. The closest I came to finding a man whom I thought shared many of my interests turned out to be a pathological liar, drunkard, and despite all these terrible qualities, already is with yet another woman. Yet an honest, sincere, caring woman is never good enough for any man.
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« Reply #140 on: August 12, 2009, 01:47:19 PM »

I know Douglas doesn't like generalizations, but then he wasn't single for 40 years of his life and hasn't had the same experiences I've had. I'm not good at lying, so my experiences with men are unfortunately all true. The closest I came to finding a man whom I thought shared many of my interests turned out to be a pathological liar, drunkard, and despite all these terrible qualities, already is with yet another woman. Yet an honest, sincere, caring woman is never good enough for any man.

Dear Rosehip,

In my dating life, I found myself attracted to women who needed various degrees of help, some more than others.  I was not directly able to help them all; however, indirectly, I feel I've had some impact on their lives.

I'm sure you are truly honest, sincere and caring, which is perfectly fine.  A woman from my past was also very honest, sincere and caring except that her immaturity negated all these positive qualities.

In the 1980's, a niece of my father's wanted to marry an American man, to the chagrin of her traditional family.  When the niece came to my father for advice about marriage, he told her a very simple and powerful reply which is roughly translated from the Greek as "do what the majority does."  As an example, if you wear headdresses and very few people do, perhaps the time has come to take off the headdress.

Just as I was finding myself attracted to women who needed help, the pathological liars, drunkards and adulterers are attracted to you because these men see that you are someone that can be walked over without impunity.  Using the same analogy, women who lie, drink, flirt with other men and own pets are not attracted to me because I will not tolerate these behaviors from the start.

To complete this post, I was scared to death of having any roommate when I was entering college.  I prayed under my breath asking the Lord to find me a suitable roommate that I could get along and not have problems.  From that point, I've had my best friend for 18 years, stood in his wedding and seen his children even as he's tremendously busy in academia.  The Lord delivers; however, one has to work and not expect things to be handed to them on a silver platter.

I hope the vignette helped.  I apologize if I offended.  The thread said, "Question for Men" and as a man, I've given the best answer I could.   angel

May the Lord Bless you.

Amen!
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« Reply #141 on: August 12, 2009, 02:01:27 PM »

Sol,

Thanks for the advice. If you are implying that I wear headdresses this is simply not true. Of course, I do cover my head for church-but so does almost every girl and woman in the parish-including babies.  As far as I can tell, when I go out with men, I dress just like everyone else, if not better. I always wear heels and a dress. There are certain commonly-accepted behaviours, such as sleeping around etc. which I simply WILL NOT do regardless of the standards society sets. I want to honour,love, and esteem my future husband and reserve myself only for him by my behaviour prior to meeting him. I firmly believe in the golden rule of doing as you would be done by.
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« Reply #142 on: August 12, 2009, 02:27:02 PM »

^^ He is very cute!!
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« Reply #143 on: August 12, 2009, 04:21:11 PM »

Tamara,

Thanks for the advice, but I don't think there is an Antiochian church anywhere close to me. There is an OCA church, but it consists of mostly new Russian immigrants, and most of the these people are all married with children.

And I've been on so many dating sites and went out with scores of men. Most men seem mostly interested in watching TV, sports, poker, racing, and other things which are completely foreign to me. I know Douglas doesn't like generalizations, but then he wasn't single for 40 years of his life and hasn't had the same experiences I've had. I'm not good at lying, so my experiences with men are unfortunately all true. The closest I came to finding a man whom I thought shared many of my interests turned out to be a pathological liar, drunkard, and despite all these terrible qualities, already is with yet another woman. Yet an honest, sincere, caring woman is never good enough for any man.
Rosehip,

Do you have a Facebook page? Maybe we can put you in direct contact with of the some of these nice guys.

Tamara
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« Reply #144 on: August 12, 2009, 07:31:13 PM »

Let's see if I have this right: Canadian men (many Canadian men that is) have a Peter Pan complex. Russian men are a special group of their own... only preferring Russian women and even Russian women warn others of them. All online searching is dangerous and leads to problems. Generalization after generalization after generalization. Perhaps some of the problems relate directly to "some" of us making sweeping generalizations. Has that ever occurred to any contributors here?

Men (whether Russian, Canadian, American, Swahili, Serbian, Finnish etc etc etc) are men. It's a given that culture and cultural traditions will enter into how men behave BUT the bottom line is: they are NOT all the same and they should NOT all be lumped together as though they were.

As I have read through the comments, I couldn't help but think that if this thread was about "lousy women", there would be a riot! And quite rightly so! I don't believe it's the intention of anyone here to do a sexist number, but it has come very close on several occassions.  Wink

Quote
It's been said countless times in this thread now and it bears repeating. First one must find contentment and peace with oneself. In so doing he/she will exude confidence and THAT quality is certainly a good one in attracting others.

I agree. And of paramount importance, is that we have to remember is that each of us is a flawed human being looking to have a relationship with another flawed human being. None of us are perfect; but many of us can be blessed in accepting the faults of our life-time partner, focusing on the good and forgiving the rest. 
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« Reply #145 on: August 12, 2009, 11:47:05 PM »

Generalizations - agreed. Joshing a bit on the poor old Canadian boys - the fact is many Canadians, male and female alike, are avoiding like crazy the growing up process (I took long enough at it - heck, I'm 36 with a career and two kids and I still have a hard time thinking of myself as an adult). And our men are at least often good-hearted, entertaining sorts and if you are willing to wait a long, long time they will settle down. Yes, more generalizations, but there are cultural norms. But I did speak specifically to Rosehip regarding men because she's looking for men and my experiences are from a woman's perspective.

And regarding Russian men - I have heard many of the same things (although most of the Russian men of our church certainly DO NOT fit the description supplied by Rosehip, although most of them are already married so it doesn't do a single girl much good).

That said, people like Rosehip (and for a period of time, myself) have had experiences that should not be dismissed. Clearly, most men do not fit some of the generalizations thrown about here. But such repeatedly negative experiences are going to colour one's perspective. Let the woman vent a bit please, with gentle assurances (as most have provided) that there are plenty of great male specimens about (and perhaps she knows it deep down in talking to many of you here). She is, however, not managing to stumble across them and she needs to be able to work through this. I've never gotten the impression that she (or most others generalizing here) are stating that all men are turds. She is simply stating that the experiences she has had is giving her a negative impression about a significant cross section of them that she has met through the often painful dating process (yech, I'd never do the dating thing again).

I will repeat though that, from what I have seen, things seem to fall into place if you just stop worrying about it and move on with your life. That's probably not all that reassuring though...
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« Reply #146 on: August 12, 2009, 11:54:34 PM »

... the fact is many Canadians, male and female alike, are avoiding like crazy the growing up process...

I think we humans have the longest maturation process of all the animals.  Here in the West, it seems, we try to draw it out to the Nth degree. LOL
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« Reply #147 on: August 12, 2009, 11:55:48 PM »

Best Mr. Darcy ever?

Oh, crikey. . here I go again. . .definitely!!

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I work with a woman in her early 40's (42 I believe) who also wants to find a husband. We were talking about this the other day and she remarked, "You know... I really hope to meet this man of my dreams some day BUT if I don't... I will still be happy with the life I now live. I'm content in my job and I have several interests that occupy me. Life is still good." I truly believe she is going to meet that special someone because of her attitude more than anything else. And it will happen in good time. But if I'm wrong, evidently she is content with the life with which God has blessed her.

I missed this little gem. . more good advice. Douglas, men often give the best advice. The men I know really listen (well, some of the men I know. .). I am very fortunate to have so many male friends who support me when I need, or want, their support.

A lot of people genuinely love you and care about you, Rosehip. As you know, support from friends makes all the difference. xx.






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« Reply #148 on: August 13, 2009, 02:27:00 AM »

If you make it evident that you consider yourself better than men, that any of their interests and hobbies are stupid and unworthy of you, they are morally bankrupt etc. it is no wonder guys are running the other way.  It seems that you are living in some sort of timewarp of 1950s stereotypes of innocent women and immoral men.  It's very off putting.  Most people have had bad experiences with relationships and dating.  All of the types of things you ascribe to "men" have happened to me, except only from women.  Sitting around and stewing about how corrupt women are probably won't help me.   
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« Reply #149 on: August 13, 2009, 12:03:08 PM »

I split off the discussion about Colin Firth to this thread. Smiley
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« Reply #150 on: August 13, 2009, 12:24:12 PM »

You must visit Great Britain, Rosehip. You would be most welcome (I have only had one bad experience with an English man). True English gentlemen value politeness; they strive to keep proper form toward other people, at all times. I rather enjoy their dry humor also. Some English men might be serious adulterers, but they do it in a polite and correct maner. Grin Tally-ho. . .


Ha! So is this guy!



LOL.  Did you see him on Jay Leno the next day?  Right off the bat Jay opened "what the HELL were you thinking?"  And the signs outside "Hugh, I would have done it for free!"

Wasn't he engaged to a supermodel at the time?
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« Reply #151 on: August 13, 2009, 12:31:24 PM »



Wasn't he engaged to a supermodel at the time?

He was MARRIED to Elizabeth Hurley at the time.
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« Reply #152 on: August 13, 2009, 12:51:38 PM »



Wasn't he engaged to a supermodel at the time?

He was MARRIED to Elizabeth Hurley at the time.

In that case this is my question for men.

http://inyourface.freedomblogging.com/files/2008/05/elizabeth-hurley-111407.jpg

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-200905/bc13ee730915809ca0ca3395d9e0cf78.jpg
The happy couple
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« Reply #153 on: August 13, 2009, 12:58:21 PM »

To Grant's credit, he didn't try to excuse it or explain it.  He said he did a bad thing and there it was.  Considering how rare that is among celebrities of his stature, you have to give him props for not trying to whitewash it.

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« Reply #154 on: August 13, 2009, 07:22:59 PM »



Wasn't he engaged to a supermodel at the time?

He was MARRIED to Elizabeth Hurley at the time.

I don't recall that they ever married.
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« Reply #155 on: August 13, 2009, 07:41:56 PM »



Wasn't he engaged to a supermodel at the time?

He was MARRIED to Elizabeth Hurley at the time.

I don't recall that they ever married.

You're right (Liz Hurley was Hugh Grant's girlfriend).
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« Reply #156 on: August 14, 2009, 03:16:38 AM »

Rosehip, I'm replying to your initial inquiry.  I have only skimmed through some of the replies.

Just for perspective, I'm a 56 year old, never married male; engaged once for 2.5 years, but my finance terminated the engagement, many years ago.

I only want to note, that I think there is more to what the man you're discussing had told you.  For whatever reason, he didn't tell you his real reasons for ending the relationship.  I find people are attracted to one another prior to initiating a relationship.  Attraction is not something that develops.  It may become more intense as a relationship grows, but it is either there initially or not.  In a relationship, we see each other dressed up and dressed down; whether it's a big Saturday night on the town, or a Saturday afternoon picnic.  I've been attracted to both the high maintenance look and the casual look.  I am very low maintenance; T.J. Max works for me.  I cannot imagine someone suddenly telling me that they've lost interest because I have no interest in an executive appearance, and expect me to take them seriously.  Something else is wrong in reality.  Likewise, I never lost interest in someone because they were not dressed with designer clothes, etc., or because I wanted her to dress down more. My only point is, I believe he didn't level with you as to his reason for his loss of interest.
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« Reply #157 on: August 18, 2009, 11:23:32 AM »

Quote
Thanks!  I'm hoping District 9 turns out better than Terminator Salvation did.  Grin
[/quote]

Wait, you have a girl taking you to see District 9 instead of some sappy love fest film?  You might be on to something! There are those of us that can do sci-fi and adventure even better than sappy love films.  Wink

Rosehip I have never seen a picture of you, but I am sure you are beautiful. You have got to be who God created you to be and be confident in that. There is no one type of man that you need to please, as evidenced by the many male opinions right here in this thread. Seems like "healthy" would far outweigh any certain weight preference.  I have been both the skinny woman (at 5'10 being under 100lbs is not attractive, but I did fit into anything I wanted after being ill for two years) and the not quite as thin mom of 7. My dh has seen both, and caused a little bit of that Wink and he loves me as me. In fact the poor guy has known me since I was 14, even in the tall braces stage! It really depends on the man, and you don't want one whose depths end at his fashion expectations for a partner. The idea isn't to struggle to appeal to a man's physical desires alone, and then have nothing more to offer. Despite the fact that men are visual creatures and are initially attracted in that manner, they do desire a woman that can enjoy the same kinds of movies, or music and food and other comforts of life yet can still bring something new and exciting/intelligent to the table. Or so I have been told by more than a few-its amazing how much info you get when you are already the old married lady.  Smiley  I have a single Russian gentleman at our parish that is quite ready to find a woman of quality and integrity. All that shows up at our little parish is either too old or too young! He works at our local nuclear company... just saying.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 11:34:56 AM by calligraphqueen » Logged
Rosehip
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« Reply #158 on: August 18, 2009, 11:36:47 AM »

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« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 11:37:29 AM by Rosehip » Logged

+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +
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