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Author Topic: Soteriological Concerns  (Read 941 times) Average Rating: 0
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fleur-de-lys
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« on: August 07, 2009, 12:43:14 PM »

I've been reading a lot of oldish threads around here, trying to get a sense of what the Oriental Orthodox believe in regards to the Atonement and how it was accomplised. I'm having a lot of trouble making sense of it all. My brain is leaking out of my ears, so let me just ask you all a rather vague question:

How did Christ's atoning sacrifice interact with God's infinite justice?

I'm less interested in a debate. I just want to hear what you guys think.  Smiley
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 12:44:19 PM by fleur-de-lys » Logged

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John of the North
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tgild
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 01:17:57 PM »

Christ came on a rescue mission to save ourselves from ourselves...
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fleur-de-lys
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 02:03:55 PM »

God's justice was not involved?
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PoorFoolNicholas
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 02:20:49 PM »

God's justice was not involved?
When Eastern Christians speak with Western Christians, oftentimes, definitions/semantics get in the way. We come from quite a different theological background, which sometimes uses a much different theological vocabulary, than say Roman Catholics. Perhaps you could define what you mean, or what you have in mind, when you speak of the justice of God? God Bless!
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Salpy
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 03:29:05 PM »

I would look at reply 52 in this thread:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13288.msg183619.html#msg183619
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John of the North
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2009, 06:11:08 PM »

Oooops...didn't realize this was the OO forum....I shall take my leave now... Smiley
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 06:14:40 PM by Ukiemeister » Logged

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fleur-de-lys
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 06:54:33 PM »

Thanks, Salpy. That post was very helpful.

PoorFoolNicholas, this

Quote
St Athanasius of Alexandria: "He sends His own Son, and He becomes Son of Man, by taking created flesh, that, since all were under sentence of death, He being other than them all, might Himself for all offer to death His own body; and that henceforth, as if all had died through Him, the word of that sentence might be accomplished (for "all died" 2 Cor. 5: 14, in Christ), and all through Him might thereupon become free from sin and from the curse which came upon it and might truly abide for ever, risen from the dead and clothed in immortality and incorruption."

is the sort of thing I mean. That God, being wholely righteous, was enforcing a juridical sentence on the world, which Christ somehow saved us from, and that this was done in a way which demonstrates the righteousness/justice of God.
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Between us, by the peace of God, such truth can now be told;

Yea, there is strength in striking root, and good in growing old.
Salpy
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 08:16:14 PM »

Oooops...didn't realize this was the OO forum....I shall take my leave now... Smiley

It's OK, we like you.   Smiley  Besides, what your Church teaches is pretty much what ours teaches.
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PoorFoolNicholas
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 10:24:25 PM »

...God, being wholely righteous, was enforcing a juridical sentence on the world,

This is where Orthodoxy departs from Roman Catholicism, and where you read one thing from the Fathers, while we come to a different conclusion. For us, and I would venture to say the OO's as well, Death is ABSOLUTELY NOT from God. He didn't create death, and He (God), didn't impose death on mankind as a sentence. Here is a saying from the Book of Wisdom, which you have in your Bible as well, I believe:
Wisdom 1:12-16

Court not death by your erring way of life, nor draw to yourselves destruction by the works of your hands.
Because God did not make death, nor does he rejoice in the destruction of the living.
For he fashioned all things that they might have being; and the creatures of the world are wholesome, And there is not a destructive drug among them nor any domain of the nether world on earth, For justice is undying. It was the wicked who with hands and words invited death, considered it a friend, and pined for it, and made a covenant with it, Because they deserve to be in its possession...


Man made a decision to walk away from the Life Giving Trinity. When one walks away from Life they will Die. We have a problem saying that God would impose something on His creation(Death), that is SO completely opposed to what He is(Life). Did God allow His creatures to die? Yes in a sense. He didn't want sin, and corruption, to be eternal in Mankind. But we do not see death as a juridical punishment imposed on mankind by God. Here is a quote from Hebrews 2:14-15:

Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself (Christ) likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery.

Now this verse is a little troubling if you come from the viewpoint of God imposing death as a sentence on mankind. He must, therefore, have given the Devil the power of Death. Why would God impose death on mankind, give the Devil the power of Death, and then send His Son to destroy His own sentence? From our standpoint, the Devil brings death to the world, NOT God, and holds the power of Death. I hope that this gives you a little more of an idea of how we think, and stand theologically. And I hope I haven't butchered our OO brothers' theology. I am a Poor Fool after all.  Wink God Bless You!

 
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