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Author Topic: Your 'Pope Francis Thread Of The Day' For 6.20.14  (Read 582 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« on: June 20, 2014, 03:31:20 PM »

Pope Francis says he opposes making recreational drugs legal

Are you stoned?

That's the message Pope Francis seemed to be sending lawmakers Friday, saying the growing worldwide trend toward legalizing recreational drugs is a very, very bad idea.

"Drug addiction is an evil, and with evil there can be no yielding or compromise," he told participants at the International Drug Enforcement Conference in Rome.

The Pope's call isn't shocking. Francis has spoken of the dangers of drug use before.
 
But it lends his voice and the authority of the Catholic Church to the growing worldwide debate over legalizing or at least decriminalizing some recreational drugs, most notably marijuana...
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2014, 07:29:24 PM »

Uh...alcohol is a recreational drug.
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2014, 10:03:58 AM »


So is nicotine.
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2014, 05:52:57 PM »

Yeah, It is entertaining because I stood up in several Catholic weddings for friends, and more that once the Roman Catholic Priest was drunk, I also sold pizzas to the Cathedral across the street from my place, and the Priests had a cooler full of beer to go with thier pizzas every weekend.

So it is the same as it ever was, people need to look at thier own before condemning others.
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2014, 05:54:48 PM »

Yeah, It is entertaining because I stood up in several Catholic weddings for friends, and more that once the Roman Catholic Priest was drunk.

During the marriage service?
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2014, 06:04:15 PM »

Recreational drugs being illegal is a modern and absurd phenomenon, and was originally the product of the progressive ideology.
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2014, 06:08:35 PM »

Yeah, some of my liberal Catholic friends on Facebook were upset about this.
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2014, 06:45:53 PM »

The reason it is bad is the same reason that Prohibition was bad, I understand that none of these substances are good for us, but the laws and wars against our fellow man over these substances is far worse.

I was only surprised at his statement because so far he has been a beacon of understanding, but he is under a lot of pressure from his peers, so I can understand him wanting to please them too, It takes time to change things.

I believe the best solutions are only through educating people, and helping those who want it.
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2014, 07:26:14 PM »

Yeah, It is entertaining because I stood up in several Catholic weddings for friends, and more that once the Roman Catholic Priest was drunk, I also sold pizzas to the Cathedral across the street from my place, and the Priests had a cooler full of beer to go with thier pizzas every weekend.

So it is the same as it ever was, people need to look at thier own before condemning others.


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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2014, 08:05:24 PM »

Pope excommunicates Italian Mafia members

"Those who in their life have gone along the evil ways, as in the case of the mafia, they are not with God, they are excommunicated," Francis said in an outdoor Mass in Piana di Sibari, Calabria.
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2014, 09:18:29 PM »

Pope excommunicates Italian Mafia members

"Those who in their life have gone along the evil ways, as in the case of the mafia, they are not with God, they are excommunicated," Francis said in an outdoor Mass in Piana di Sibari, Calabria.

He is one brave Pope, isn't he ?

He is cleaning the Catholic Church after centuries of corruption .  I hope God will protect him from any harm.
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2014, 10:11:17 PM »

I think I'm in love with Pope Francis. 
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2014, 12:11:15 AM »

Pope excommunicates Italian Mafia members

"Those who in their life have gone along the evil ways, as in the case of the mafia, they are not with God, they are excommunicated," Francis said in an outdoor Mass in Piana di Sibari, Calabria.

He is one brave Pope, isn't he ?

He is cleaning the Catholic Church after centuries of corruption .  I hope God will protect him from any harm.

What is he doing aside from saying the right things?  The Pope could very easily sell every piece of artwork in the Vatican and give it to the poor a la "In the Shoes of the Fisherman".  People forget how much power the Pope actually has.  Pope Benedict defrocked over 200 priests in 4 years, much more than his predecessor did in nearly 30 years. 

For example, Pope Francis has set up an 'advisory council' to deal with the sexual abuse crisis in the church.  Why?  All he has to do is clamp down on individual bishops and throw out convicted priests.  It's great that he says he is going to do this and tells his bishops to live a humble lifestyle but he's not doing near as much as he could.  His ideas are great but I won't be a believer until real action is taken.

In the meantime, RC bishops are driving $30,000 cars and asking people in beat up Buick's to give more of their income (my local diocese).  I know it's a formidable task to monitor every diocese in the world but he's only taken action against bishops who made headlines for more than a few weeks.  Nothing has changed.
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2014, 01:44:37 AM »

Pope excommunicates Italian Mafia members

"Those who in their life have gone along the evil ways, as in the case of the mafia, they are not with God, they are excommunicated," Francis said in an outdoor Mass in Piana di Sibari, Calabria.

He is one brave Pope, isn't he ?

He is cleaning the Catholic Church after centuries of corruption .  I hope God will protect him from any harm.

What is he doing aside from saying the right things?  The Pope could very easily sell every piece of artwork in the Vatican and give it to the poor a la "In the Shoes of the Fisherman".  People forget how much power the Pope actually has.  Pope Benedict defrocked over 200 priests in 4 years, much more than his predecessor did in nearly 30 years. 

For example, Pope Francis has set up an 'advisory council' to deal with the sexual abuse crisis in the church.  Why?  All he has to do is clamp down on individual bishops and throw out convicted priests.  It's great that he says he is going to do this and tells his bishops to live a humble lifestyle but he's not doing near as much as he could.  His ideas are great but I won't be a believer until real action is taken.

In the meantime, RC bishops are driving $30,000 cars and asking people in beat up Buick's to give more of their income (my local diocese).  I know it's a formidable task to monitor every diocese in the world but he's only taken action against bishops who made headlines for more than a few weeks.  Nothing has changed.

That was my opinion on Pope Francis as an individual. He is very good and trying his best to clean the Catholic Church. However, and I was going to post this as a comment to Mor Ephrem's post about falling in love with Pope Francis, my comment was going to be " I'm in love with Pope Francis as well, but I'm not in love with the Catholic Church ".

Sadly, there are plenty of Catholics worldwide, from the Cardinals to the laity trying to keep the Church corrupted, and hiding things and trying to show that what Pope Francis saying and doing is nothing new! And that is a false claim, because what Pope Francis saying and doing is new indeed.

About the child abuse, I believe that Pope could do more, he simply can be as tough as he is now on the Mafia, he could excommunicate the Bishops and the pervert priests right away.

About him selling the artworks of the Vatican, and all the expensive stuff in it, I'm not sure if he can do that even as a Pope, I don't think he owns the Vatican and all what is in it, I don't think he has any right to just take everything out and have a sale yard at the Vatican.

I like the Pope, but many Cardinals and Bishops are corrupted, and they may even wish Pope Francis never came to power, I don't think they make his job easy.

I was just watching an interesting debate titled " The Catholic Church is Beyond Redemption : Pope Francis can't save it ". Now, I think this debate is not theological, but it is about the attitude of the Church leaders on many issues and people, the church's past,  present and future. I'm saying this because I'm staying away from theological discussions about which Church is right, is this faith true or not...etc. But I'm still interested in learning more about social and moral issues worldwide, specially those that include religious institutions.

I may open a thread on the issue of Catholic Church redemption. I need to finish watching the debate and see if it is worthy of discussing it.

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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2014, 09:43:39 AM »

Quote
Yeah, It is entertaining because I stood up in several Catholic weddings for friends, and more that once the Roman Catholic Priest was drunk,
Well bless my soul. alchohol at a wedding. I think I've heard this before. something about a guy creating wine for his mother at a wedding party or something like that.

Quote
I also sold pizzas to the Cathedral across the street from my place, and the Priests had a cooler full of beer to go with thier pizzas every weekend.

Where is this place, I need to get there ASAP. Wink

Quote
So it is the same as it ever was, people need to look at thier own before condemning others.
Are we projecting here?
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2014, 09:46:19 AM »

I think I'm in love with Pope Francis. 
Seems someone needs to enroll in RCIA classes.
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2014, 10:53:45 AM »

Yeah, some of my liberal Catholic friends on Facebook were upset about this.
The same people who were just ducky with Francis telling them not to "judge" homosexuals or perhaps to "re-evaluate" wymin's role in the Church, I'm sure. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2014, 12:22:26 PM »

Pope excommunicates Italian Mafia members

"Those who in their life have gone along the evil ways, as in the case of the mafia, they are not with God, they are excommunicated," Francis said in an outdoor Mass in Piana di Sibari, Calabria.

He is one brave Pope, isn't he ?

He is cleaning the Catholic Church after centuries of corruption .  I hope God will protect him from any harm.

What is he doing aside from saying the right things?  The Pope could very easily sell every piece of artwork in the Vatican and give it to the poor a la "In the Shoes of the Fisherman".  People forget how much power the Pope actually has.  Pope Benedict defrocked over 200 priests in 4 years, much more than his predecessor did in nearly 30 years.  

For example, Pope Francis has set up an 'advisory council' to deal with the sexual abuse crisis in the church.  Why?  All he has to do is clamp down on individual bishops and throw out convicted priests.  It's great that he says he is going to do this and tells his bishops to live a humble lifestyle but he's not doing near as much as he could.  His ideas are great but I won't be a believer until real action is taken.

In the meantime, RC bishops are driving $30,000 cars and asking people in beat up Buick's to give more of their income (my local diocese).  I know it's a formidable task to monitor every diocese in the world but he's only taken action against bishops who made headlines for more than a few weeks.  Nothing has changed.

That was my opinion on Pope Francis as an individual.

About him selling the artworks of the Vatican, and all the expensive stuff in it, I'm not sure if he can do that even as a Pope, I don't think he owns the Vatican and all what is in it, I don't think he has any right to just take everything out and have a sale yard at the Vatican.

I like the Pope, but many Cardinals and Bishops are corrupted, and they may even wish Pope Francis never came to power, I don't think they make his job easy.


I agree with these points.  Changing a worldwide culture that has been so for centuries will take many years to fix.  It's incredibly hard just in business situations alone, let alone an organization with some 2,000 bishops.  I do believe he is a good man but seems to be an ineffective leader.

He could sell the artwork because the Pope is also a monarch and has full jurisdiction and power over Vatican City.  I don't expect him to do this but him not excommunicating bishops and priests for covering sexual abuse is telling.  It's telling in that he's all words with no action.

Also, it's a nice gesture his excommunicating members of the mafia but unfortunately they were already most likely excommunicated ipso facto.  Not that it doesn't take courage.  John Paul II did this in 1993 and there was backlash with churches and priests targeted.  

I'm just pointing out that all this fawning over Francis by the media is pathetic only because his statements are easy enough to manipulate into making it sound like he is a liberal champion of gay rights and social welfare.  Actually, some of his statements don't need much manipulating.  

He's in over his head and isn't up to the intellectual challenge of the Papacy like his predecessor, Benedict XVI was.  It's my controversial opinion and alternate universe desire that John Paul II resigned in the 90s and Benedict have been elected then.  He could have done so much more for the Catholic Church in its most recent turbulent years IMO than John Paul II did.
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2014, 01:09:16 PM »

I think I'm in love with Pope Francis. 
Seems someone needs to enroll in RCIA classes.

If they teach you how to discern sarcasm, you might consider enrolling in one yourself. 
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« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2014, 03:25:45 PM »

I think I'm in love with Pope Francis. 
Seems someone needs to enroll in RCIA classes.

If they teach you how to discern sarcasm, you might consider enrolling in one yourself. 
Funny you should say that.

Oh the irony!
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« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2014, 03:28:17 PM »

Yeah, It is entertaining because I stood up in several Catholic weddings for friends, and more that once the Roman Catholic Priest was drunk, I also sold pizzas to the Cathedral across the street from my place, and the Priests had a cooler full of beer to go with thier pizzas every weekend.

So it is the same as it ever was, people need to look at thier own before condemning others.


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« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2014, 04:00:16 PM »

I can understand the condemnation of legalizing stuff like cocaine, krokodil, and bath salts, but marijauna?  I think it's been proven that it's better than cigarettes and perhaps even alcohol, right?  Plus, legalizing it would make it easier to produce things made out of hemp, which would probably make a lot of useful items cheaper.
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2014, 06:27:05 PM »

Quote
Yeah, It is entertaining because I stood up in several Catholic weddings for friends, and more that once the Roman Catholic Priest was drunk,
Well bless my soul. alchohol at a wedding. I think I've heard this before. something about a guy creating wine for his mother at a wedding party or something like that.

Quote
I also sold pizzas to the Cathedral across the street from my place, and the Priests had a cooler full of beer to go with thier pizzas every weekend.

Where is this place, I need to get there ASAP. Wink

Quote
So it is the same as it ever was, people need to look at thier own before condemning others.
Are we projecting here?

The priest was drunk at the Church, where there was no alcohol served, and for that matter that wedding had no alcohol at the reception either.
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« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2014, 06:43:03 PM »

I think I'm in love with Pope Francis. 

Well whatever you all may think, while I'm not in love with him, but I definitely love him  Cool

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« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2014, 07:06:49 PM »

I think I'm in love with Pope Francis. 

Get a room! Wink
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« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2014, 12:32:00 PM »


I agree with these points.  Changing a worldwide culture that has been so for centuries will take many years to fix.  It's incredibly hard just in business situations alone, let alone an organization with some 2,000 bishops.  I do believe he is a good man but seems to be an ineffective leader.

The guy is leading a church of 1.2 billion people and had been on the job for 15 months.  I think it is a tad premature to determine if he is an ineffective leader.
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2014, 01:05:08 PM »


I agree with these points.  Changing a worldwide culture that has been so for centuries will take many years to fix.  It's incredibly hard just in business situations alone, let alone an organization with some 2,000 bishops.  I do believe he is a good man but seems to be an ineffective leader.

The guy is leading a church of 1.2 billion people and had been on the job for 15 months.  I think it is a tad premature to determine if he is an ineffective leader.

I suppose there's no way of determining this by referring to his previous experience as Archbishop of Buenos Aires, right?
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2014, 02:10:04 PM »

Well, there are 33 million Catholics in a very traditionally Catholic Argentina. That is a much smaller population and a very different demographic than what he has now.  Someone can be a very good middle manager and suck and being on top.

I've not heard much about how well or poorly he did in Argentina, although I will readily admit to not closely following his career.
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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2014, 02:14:17 PM »

Well, there are 33 million Catholics in a very traditionally Catholic Argentina. That is a much smaller population and a very different demographic than what he has now.  Someone can be a very good middle manager and suck and being on top.

You're presuming that he was a middle manager: RC ecclesiology tends to lead to this conclusion on paper, but reality often works differently.  Also, there's more to "leadership" than how many you have to lead. 
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2014, 02:18:17 PM »

Well, there are 33 million Catholics in a very traditionally Catholic Argentina. That is a much smaller population and a very different demographic than what he has now.  Someone can be a very good middle manager and suck and being on top.

You're presuming that he was a middle manager: RC ecclesiology tends to lead to this conclusion on paper, but reality often works differently.  Also, there's more to "leadership" than how many you have to lead. 
I'm afraid I am not sure what point you are trying to make. My post was merely stating that we should hold off on judging how successful (or not) he will be as a leader until we have more years to evaluate his work. If his leadership in Argentina was demonstratively ineffectual, then I agree, that would have a significant reflection on how he may perform as Pope, but to my limited understanding of his career that is not the case.
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« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2014, 02:23:25 PM »

Well, there are 33 million Catholics in a very traditionally Catholic Argentina. That is a much smaller population and a very different demographic than what he has now.  Someone can be a very good middle manager and suck and being on top.

You're presuming that he was a middle manager: RC ecclesiology tends to lead to this conclusion on paper, but reality often works differently.  Also, there's more to "leadership" than how many you have to lead. 
I'm afraid I am not sure what point you are trying to make. My post was merely stating that we should hold off on judging how successful (or not) he will be as a leader until we have more years to evaluate his work. If his leadership in Argentina was demonstratively ineffectual, then I agree, that would have a significant reflection on how he may perform as Pope, but to my limited understanding of his career that is not the case.

I've heard mixed reviews about his time in Argentina, but whether or not that is the case I think there's more to leadership than just the size of the organisation being led.  It's not like he's doing it alone, either.
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« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2014, 02:28:09 PM »

Well, there are 33 million Catholics in a very traditionally Catholic Argentina. That is a much smaller population and a very different demographic than what he has now.  Someone can be a very good middle manager and suck and being on top.

You're presuming that he was a middle manager: RC ecclesiology tends to lead to this conclusion on paper, but reality often works differently.  Also, there's more to "leadership" than how many you have to lead. 
I'm afraid I am not sure what point you are trying to make. My post was merely stating that we should hold off on judging how successful (or not) he will be as a leader until we have more years to evaluate his work. If his leadership in Argentina was demonstratively ineffectual, then I agree, that would have a significant reflection on how he may perform as Pope, but to my limited understanding of his career that is not the case.

I've heard mixed reviews about his time in Argentina, but whether or not that is the case I think there's more to leadership than just the size of the organisation being led.  It's not like he's doing it alone, either.
I agree, but there is admittedly a big difference between being the owner of your local hardware store and being the CEO of Home Depot. He was Archbishop of 2.5% of the world's Roman Catholics. He is now Pope of 100% of them.
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Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
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« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2014, 07:23:02 PM »

Quote
Yeah, It is entertaining because I stood up in several Catholic weddings for friends, and more that once the Roman Catholic Priest was drunk,
Well bless my soul. alchohol at a wedding. I think I've heard this before. something about a guy creating wine for his mother at a wedding party or something like that.

Quote
I also sold pizzas to the Cathedral across the street from my place, and the Priests had a cooler full of beer to go with thier pizzas every weekend.

Where is this place, I need to get there ASAP. Wink

Quote
So it is the same as it ever was, people need to look at thier own before condemning others.
Are we projecting here?

The priest was drunk at the Church, where there was no alcohol served, and for that matter that wedding had no alcohol at the reception either.
No alchohol? What kind of wedding was that? Even Jesus made wine at a wedding.(Oh right that was "fruitjuice") Roll Eyes

Was this a Catholic wedding? Was everybody at it belong to AA or something?

Sounds very protty to me.


And just how do you know the priest was "drunk"?
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« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2014, 07:26:20 PM »


Quote
Well, there are 33 million Catholics in a very traditionally Catholic Argentina.


Well, seems their not that "traditional" when they allow this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Argentina
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« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2014, 08:43:58 PM »


I agree with these points.  Changing a worldwide culture that has been so for centuries will take many years to fix.  It's incredibly hard just in business situations alone, let alone an organization with some 2,000 bishops.  I do believe he is a good man but seems to be an ineffective leader.

The guy is leading a church of 1.2 billion people and had been on the job for 15 months.  I think it is a tad premature to determine if he is an ineffective leader.

But only some 452,000 of those 1.2 billion people (2,000 bishops) and 450,000 (priests) report directly to him and he complete and final say over what happens to them.  If he was a new CEO, I'd agree that it's premature but considering that he is the head of the church with absolute authority, I think by 15 months more should be accomplished.

Unrelated to above statement:  Pope Francis has pretty good luck with 'spontaneously' being holy in front of cameras.  http://news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-stops-his-car-to-bless-disabled-woman-in-italy-175334368.html
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