I never said that the acceptance of a Council by the Pope isn't required, of course it is. What I'm arguing against is the idea that an Ecumenical Council is merely a form of Papal Ex Cathedra statement.
Well, it is sort of a fine line though. If in the end what a Council says is true because the Pope says it's true, then indeed in "some sense" it is an extension of Ex Cathedra, since the Council is getting the stamp of a approval from the only one who can give it, no?
I DO see the line there you're distinguishing, but it is a fine one in my mind.
Like I said earlier, our faith isn't so rigid and legalistic as non-Catholics like to think. Through our catechesis and Liturgy a Catholic knows what is infallible and why said teaching is important, but what is sometimes fuzzy is exactly where the teaching was originally defined, we don't generally add in with the teaching sidenotes of the <this was from an Ecumenical Council; this one was from a Papal decree; this one is from the Ordinary Magisterium; etc.>. If that makes sense to you.
it actually doesn't make sense to me...LOL!
In PRINCIPLE it makes sense, but I know and have talked to plenty of Catholics who are NOT sure what is and is not infallible dogma unless it's either, A.) from a Council, or B.) from an Ex Cathedra statement.
I realize you're saying the Catholic faith is more organic that it first appears, and I would agree. Trust me, I'm not anti-Catholic, anti-Western, anti-Pope, or anti-Augustinian at all. I pray the Rosary, read the Pope's writings and books, and find very little I actually disagree with in Catholic theology when understood through a western lens, (different ways of saying the same thing) but I still don't see the solid understanding of what is and is not infallible dogma that you say exists.
The CCC is not an infallible document. It is a "sure norm for teaching the Catholic faith", and as such it repeats the infallible teaching of the Church. Can you see the difference?
No I can't see the difference. Not because I cannot read, but because of the inconsistency of it's application. Again, the document on birth control doesn't say "this is infallible" and yet 99% of Catholics say it is. (and a few say it is NOT precisely because it DOESN'T say it's infallible) And yet, the language in the CCC to me, appears far stronger than the birth control document, and a majority of Catholics say that the CCC is NOT infallible teaching. (although I've heard some Catholics say that it IS)
I guess what I'm asking is this,
Does the Pope have to say "this is an ex Cathedra statement binding on all Catholics" for it to be Ex Cathedra?
I've been told, that the answer is NO! But if the answer is no, then how does anyone know what is and is not official dogma?
I've also been told that the answer is YES! So it seems Catholics are just as confused as us Orthodox...lol!
This is not to nitpick or bash Catholicism, so please don't think that's what I'm doing. My mother is Catholic, my neighbors are Catholic, and there are only a few minor issues that I don't accept in Catholic theology. I only ask this just to learn, because I've never really gotten a straight answer...or rather I have, and then gotten a contradictory answer from someone else.