Author Topic: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves  (Read 5419 times)

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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2010, 06:22:06 PM »
Strange. I thought it was a norm (or even a law) for any monk to give up all property. So, a monk who buys an expensive watch for himself... I can't even place it in my head.

Stop doing mental gymnastics and leave the matter between Patriarch Kirrill, his Spiritual Father, and God. We don't know the state of the Patriarch's heart and soul, and we don't know the instructions he has received from his Spiritual Father. Furthermore, the watch may have been a gift. We don't know, so why worry about it?
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2010, 06:33:07 PM »
We don't know the state of the Patriarch's heart and soul, and we don't know the instructions he has received from his Spiritual Father.

Maybe he was given it as a way to humble him.  You never know.

I have heard of people being commanded to eat meat and dairy by their spiritual father during Lent in order to humble them.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 06:33:29 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2010, 06:51:44 PM »
Strange. I thought it was a norm (or even a law) for any monk to give up all property. So, a monk who buys an expensive watch for himself... I can't even place it in my head.

Stop doing mental gymnastics and leave the matter between Patriarch Kirrill, his Spiritual Father, and God. We don't know the state of the Patriarch's heart and soul, and we don't know the instructions he has received from his Spiritual Father. Furthermore, the watch may have been a gift. We don't know, so why worry about it?

I have stopped it long ago - it's Father Ambrose who resumed it, not me.
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2010, 10:02:02 PM »
This is to show what a holy man Patriarch Kiril is.

God bless him.  I hope His oliness will be able to unite people.

Do holy people wear Breguet watch made of pure gold, with a strap made of crocodile skin, costing from 28,000 to 36,000 euro (http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/events/918683)? Just askin'...

Actually, you can get one online with free shipping from $99 to $152.00 at

http://hot-replica.com/replica_watches/breguet_classique_le_reveil_du_tsar_11943.html

This watch is Russian-themed "Le Reveil du Tsar."

I'm thinking of getting one myself.

Although I'd have to hide it from reporters if I visit the Ukraine. . .



Father, I thought you, as a monk, cannot have any property - am I wrong?

In my case, yes.  But I am not the norm of monastic life.  I was sent out of my monastery 28 years ago to care for 3 Russian parishes.   I was not provided with any money and have never received a salary from the parishes or diocese.    I have had to provide for myself (apart from airfares to parishes, donations for weddings and funerals) and live on a level of poverty which my countrymen would find hard to tolerate.  It's all good!   :)

Strange. I thought it was a norm (or even a law) for any monk to give up all property. So, a monk who buys an expensive watch for himself... I can't even place it in my head.

How nice if I had been able to "give up all property"  and someone else assumed the worries of providing a place for me to live out of the rain, clothes for my back and food for the body :(  Since the ecclesiastical authorities and the faithful did not provide these things, I suppose I could have slept on the streets and truly given up all property.  Truly a Christ-like way to live and a fine example to the city!   "The foxes and the birds of the air... but the Son of Man hath nowhere to lay his head..."  I certainly "gave up all property" in the sense that I "worked" full-time for the parishes for 30 years without receiving a dollar.

This article by a senior priest of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad about the truly awful poverty of our priests and the indifference of the laity will appall you
https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0006A&L=ORTHODOX&P=R8636

I think in my case it was exacerbated, because, as a monk without a family, people thought I was holy enough to exist on fresh air.   :laugh:

I have never owned a watch since I have been a monk.  I couldn't afford one.   But is a $99 imitation Breguet seen as expensive in the States?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 10:05:49 PM by Irish Hermit »

Offline Stanislav

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2010, 09:13:39 PM »
I have never owned a watch since I have been a monk.  I couldn't afford one.   But is a $99 imitation Breguet seen as expensive in the States?
As a matter of fact, yes. My watch costs $9.99.

This is almost besides the point. Breguet (as any other piece of luxury jewelery) is designed to indulge vanity. Imitation Breguet adds deception. And, Father, let's not fool ourselves: His Holiness's piece is quite real.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2010, 12:55:57 AM »
I have never owned a watch since I have been a monk.  I couldn't afford one.   But is a $99 imitation Breguet seen as expensive in the States?
As a matter of fact, yes. My watch costs $9.99.

This is almost besides the point. Breguet (as any other piece of luxury jewelery) is designed to indulge vanity. Imitation Breguet adds deception. And, Father, let's not fool ourselves: His Holiness's piece is quite real.

I've seen people get churned-up about the bishop's car, a BMW.  Donated by a wealthy man and serviced for free by a pious Serb mechanic.  I suppose that not all hierarchs are called to holy Patriarch Pavle's level of poverty. 

Offline ms.hoorah

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2010, 01:47:45 AM »
It is very possible that the watch previously discussed was also a gift.  Russians love to give gifts.

 A car dealership owner gave my neighbor, a retired RC priest, a new car when he retired. Father encouraged him to donate it to the church, but the man insisted Father drive it because it was an expression of his appreciation/love.   It would be very offensive to this parishioner if Father did not use his "gift".

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2010, 01:52:23 AM »
It is very possible that the watch previously discussed was also a gift.  Russians love to give gifts.

 A car dealership owner gave my neighbor, a retired RC priest, a new car when he retired. Father encouraged him to donate it to the church, but the man insisted Father drive it because it was an expression of his appreciation/love.   It would be very offensive to this parishioner if Father did not use his "gift".

All those pigeons didn't seem to be put off by the Breguet.  Now if they had been crows.....

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2010, 09:08:02 AM »
It is very possible that the watch previously discussed was also a gift.  Russians love to give gifts.

 A car dealership owner gave my neighbor, a retired RC priest, a new car when he retired. Father encouraged him to donate it to the church, but the man insisted Father drive it because it was an expression of his appreciation/love.   It would be very offensive to this parishioner if Father did not use his "gift".

All those pigeons didn't seem to be put off by the Breguet.  Now if they had been crows.....

Vesting The Patriarch



This went around some time ago when -- horror of horrors - the Patriarch was spotted wearing an extremely expensive watch (which someone had given him).

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2010, 03:35:41 PM »
We also need to realise that the Cross and Panagia sets the Patriarch wears are typically in the 100,000 dollar range.  The cross and panagia that Patriarch Alexey gave to Metropolitan Laurus at the Unification service was about 50,000.  Therefore, it is so funny they would point out the watch...

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2010, 03:42:12 PM »

Seriously?

$100,000?
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Offline stashko

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Re: Pigeons from all over Kiev flew to the Kiev Laura on the Caves
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2010, 03:54:14 PM »
Fr. Are the Jewelled pieces given to the Patriarch including the Mitre by the Tsars of old ,and a lot of them are antiques...To continually keep making them would be kind of expensive....I would think...
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 03:56:38 PM by stashko »
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