Author Topic: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?  (Read 10609 times)

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Offline Robb

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Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« on: July 27, 2009, 03:19:11 AM »
Sorry I moved the post to a more proper place.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 03:40:03 AM by Robb »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2009, 03:29:56 AM »
And just how is this speculation on a celebrity's religious life pertinent to the issues our own potential converts and recent converts (that is, those of both groups who post on this forum) face?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 03:36:56 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Robb

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Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2009, 03:37:53 AM »
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20273527,00.html

I have recently heard that famous traditionalist Catholic actor/director/producer, Mel Gibson has been dating a Russian model.  Now I have no idea if this women is a practicing Orthodox (or Jewish or something).  However, if she is, would there be a chance that she could get Mel to convert to Orthodoxy (OCA and ROCOR both have churches in the LA area.  It would be great if Gibson would convert and use his millions to help spread Orthodoxy (and maybe make some great Russian epics into movies).  Mel si probably on the outs with his RC sect (which is not even in union with the Vatican).  Perhaps this will make him search for a new faith?

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« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 04:15:38 AM by Nebelpfade »
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2009, 04:14:29 AM »
His ex was Episcopalian, and he considered her a saintly woman, I doubt he will being going anywhere whether she is Orthodox or Jewish.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 04:16:55 AM by Nebelpfade »
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Offline SDMPNS

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2009, 08:53:01 AM »
As anti-semitic as Mel Gibson is he is the last thing that American Orthodoxy needs...

Offline monkvasyl

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2009, 09:06:32 AM »
Would Mel Gibson convert to Orthodoxy?  Probably when Dante's Inferno glaciates...lol
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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2009, 11:58:18 AM »
His ex was Episcopalian, and he considered her a saintly woman....
Yes, saintly, but doomed.
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Offline stashko

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2009, 01:36:04 PM »
I not sure if i would like to see him convert to orthodoxy hate to see him polute orthodoxy with that catholic baggage he would bring with him ....I really didn't care for that film of his[ The Passion of Christ]Awwfull ug...I liked Him in those sci fi films as a actor though....




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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2009, 01:41:06 PM »
I not sure if i would like to see him convert to orthodoxy hate to see him polute orthodoxy with that catholic baggage he would bring with him ....I really didn't care for that film of his[ The Passion of Christ]Awwfull ug...I liked Him in those sci fi films as a actor though....






I have more problems with the adultery.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
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Offline Robb

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2009, 02:00:50 PM »
First, sorry about the double posting.  I'm new here and still getting the hang of things.

Second, Just because Gibson is/was an RC trad, this does not mean that he is incapable of separating himself from it and embracing Orthodoxy.  Mel should be as welcome to our churches as any other individual would.  The very fact that he even bothered to spend millions making the (incorrect from Orthodox theology) Passion of the Christ proves that he is, at heart, a decent man who struggles to do whats right despite his personal problems. 

I hope he ends up marrying his girlfriend and maybe, if she is Orthodox and not secular, she will inssit on, at least, a church wedding.  Maybe Mel will be so impressed that he will convert and use his millions for the spread of Orthodoxy. 
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline Schultz

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2009, 02:03:22 PM »
I not sure if i would like to see him convert to orthodoxy hate to see him polute orthodoxy with that catholic baggage he would bring with him ....I really didn't care for that film of his[ The Passion of Christ]Awwfull ug...I liked Him in those sci fi films as a actor though....


While I'm certainly not trying to equate Mel Gibson with St. Paul, it's a good thing the Apostles didn't think the same thing of the latter when he came to them after his conversion experience, that he would "pollute orthodoxy with his (Pharisaical) baggage".  

Seriously, who are you or anyone else to know the heart of someone who may or may not approach the church for possible conversion?  Such speculation is detrimental to the soul of the speculator, not the speculatee.  As in most things, the only proper response for someone who does not know anyone involved personally to such an idea is, "Lord, have mercy".

Period.
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2009, 02:18:53 PM »
As anti-semitic as Mel Gibson is he is the last thing that American Orthodoxy needs...

Because, of course, Orthodoxy is immune to such anti-Semitism.

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2009, 02:32:57 PM »
First, sorry about the double posting.  I'm new here and still getting the hang of things.

Second, Just because Gibson is/was an RC trad, this does not mean that he is incapable of separating himself from it and embracing Orthodoxy.  Mel should be as welcome to our churches as any other individual would.  The very fact that he even bothered to spend millions making the (incorrect from Orthodox theology) Passion of the Christ proves that he is, at heart, a decent man who struggles to do whats right despite his personal problems. 

I hope he ends up marrying his girlfriend and maybe, if she is Orthodox and not secular, she will inssit on, at least, a church wedding.  Maybe Mel will be so impressed that he will convert and use his millions for the spread of Orthodoxy. 

Impressed by the Orthodoxy of an adulteress?

I liked the Passion. Plenty of it was consistent with Orthodox Theology, but you are right, it shows he is engaged in a struggle.

I'm trying not to judge Mel and his mistress, but from what I've heard his wife has been a saint even through the divorce.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 02:35:02 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2009, 02:51:33 PM »
I not sure if i would like to see him convert to orthodoxy hate to see him polute orthodoxy with that catholic baggage he would bring with him ....I really didn't care for that film of his[ The Passion of Christ]Awwfull ug...I liked Him in those sci fi films as a actor though....
What makes you think that if a Catholic--any Catholic--becomes Orthodox, he would necessarily bring his Catholic baggage into the Church with him and pollute the Church with it?  What happened to the Orthodox Church transforming those who enter her communion?  Isn't that what it really means to BECOME Orthodox?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 02:53:57 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Robb

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2009, 02:56:14 PM »
we are all sinners.  Even the most devout people, at times, have given into sinful ways. This does not negate their entire lives or throw out the possibility of their continuing to practice their faith. If Orthodoxy was so strict that the Church threw out every notorious sinner, then there would be very few of us who would still be members.  Mel's Russian mistress and he may have made a mistake but that's all in the past now.  Since his lawful wife has decided , by her own free will, to put away their marriage, this would leave Mel free to marry again. 

Also, is Mels' first marriage even recognized by Orthodoxy as being valid since it did not take place in an Orthodox church?  Is Mel's marriage even considered valid by the RCC authorities since it probably took place in a schismatic (by Vatican standards) church?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 03:00:55 PM by Robb »
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline SDMPNS

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2009, 03:10:38 PM »
What I meant was the last thing Orthodoxy needs is one more antisemite. I read a wonderful book called "Constantine's Sword" it should be read by every Christian..Mel Gibson can work out his own salvation as I am having enough trouble with mine..

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2009, 03:14:16 PM »
What happened to the Orthodox Church transforming those who enter her communion?  Isn't that what it really means to BECOME Orthodox?

As frightening as it may seem, I agree with PtA on this.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2009, 03:15:51 PM »
What I meant was the last thing Orthodoxy needs is one more antisemite. I read a wonderful book called "Constantine's Sword" it should be read by every Christian..Mel Gibson can work out his own salvation as I am having enough trouble with mine..

I have to admit, I haven't read the book, but the excerpts all offered from it have been gastro-intestinal by product.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Robb

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2009, 03:24:31 PM »
You must understand that Mel Gibson had a terrible childhood under his rough, religious zealot of a father, Hutton Gibson.  Mel's dad was so whacked out with his traddy brand of RCism that he went to great lengths to try and control his children.  For instance, he used to tie some type of device around the child Mel's private parts before he went to sleep at night in order to prevent him from fooling around with himself.  The father was also  typical joyless fanatic who refused to permit his children to celebrate anything like birthdays or other holidays.  The father was one sick, twisted individual and it's obvious that many of his sons views and problems stem from the rough childhood that he was dealt.

I read about it in a bio on Mel several years ago.

http://www.amazon.com/Mel-Gibson-Dangerously-Wensley-Clarkson/dp/1560252251

It's a great shame that such despots are even allowed to raise children.
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline Marc1152

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2009, 03:40:07 PM »
As anti-semitic as Mel Gibson is he is the last thing that American Orthodoxy needs...

True enough.. however, "Martyrs of Russia" would make a GREAT Movie.. Like when the firing squads would shoot a Priest over and over but he would keep getting back up. Soldiers would throw down their guns and repent seeing this. They would finally have to stab him to death...  Or When they put Fr. Arseny out all night in 50 below cold in the Gulag, a sure death sentence. But he was surrounded by light and survived.. Or when they executed a Parish Priest but on the next Sunday another Priest showed up to serve the DL, and was shot too. But the next week another Priest came and the next week and the next week....

Blockbuster stuff..   Mel, write to me babe
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 03:44:12 PM by Marc1152 »
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Robb

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2009, 04:42:47 PM »
Yea, that would be interesting stuff.  I also hope that he makes one of my favorite books, Taras Bulba, into a movie. 
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline Orthodoc

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2009, 04:44:55 PM »
Yea, that would be interesting stuff.  I also hope that he makes one of my favorite books, Taras Bulba, into a movie. 

It was made into a movie in the 1950's.  You can get it on DVD.  Starred Yul Brenner & Tony Curtis.

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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2009, 05:18:48 PM »
What I meant was the last thing Orthodoxy needs is one more antisemite.
No, the FIRST thing Orthodox needs is another anti-Semite, just as long as that individual repents and puts aside his anti-Semitic hatred. ;)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 05:19:16 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2009, 05:23:36 PM »
It's a great shame that such despots are even allowed to raise children.
And who would you suggest should have stepped in to take Hutton Gibson's children from him?
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Offline Robb

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2009, 05:40:16 PM »
It's a great shame that such despots are even allowed to raise children.
And who would you suggest should have stepped in to take Hutton Gibson's children from him?

Child protective services.  Normal parents.  Anybody but Hutton.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 05:54:38 PM by Robb »
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2009, 06:04:08 PM »
Also, is Mels' first marriage even recognized by Orthodoxy as being valid since it did not take place in an Orthodox church?  Is Mel's marriage even considered valid by the RCC authorities since it probably took place in a schismatic (by Vatican standards) church?

Robb, Mel's marriage took place in Australia with the full blessing of the bishop of that diocese. The nuptial Mass was also Novus Ordo.

As for whether Mel is schismatic (like his father), none of us can surely say. However, I do know some normally very trustworthy priests who (having spoken with him) say that he is not. He does seem to recognize the Holy Father---his father Hutton (a sedevacantist) would never have given the Pope a private showing of the film.

Of course, at the moment he has scandalized many with his actions.

Offline SDMPNS

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2009, 10:35:35 PM »
An antisemite who repents is no longer an antisemite...

Offline Jakub

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2009, 11:26:50 PM »
When Mel Gibson makes a Orthodox movie...
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 11:27:54 PM by Jakub »
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Offline Robb

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2009, 01:01:41 AM »
yea, I saw the one with Yul Brenner.  That is still one of my favorite movies.  I know that there was a Russian version of Taras Bulba which came out last year.  I'm not sure if it has been released in the US with English subtitles but If anybody knows where to get a copy, please contact me about it.

Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
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Offline Robb

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2009, 01:05:10 AM »
i just found an article on Mel's church.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20272857,00.html

It seems that it is not publically connected to the RCC so it must be an independent chapel, common amongst traditionalsit RC groups to have.

While we don't know if Mel denies there is a Pope, it is clear that he is affiliated with a church which is not under his authority. 
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-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline Ebor

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2009, 02:01:09 PM »
Mel's Russian mistress and he may have made a mistake but that's all in the past now. 

"made a mistake"  ???  :o  He knew he was married with children and how could she not be aware that he was married and the father of a number of children with his lawful, loving wife.  Committing adultery is a "mistake" which is somehow not as bad as his wife taking action?  He gets a "that's all in the past now" after breaking the marriage vows that he made to his wife because she started proceedings? 

Quote
Since his lawful wife has decided , by her own free will, to put away their marriage, this would leave Mel free to marry again. 

You make this sound so casual and careless.  The wife decided to "put away" the marriage, like putting away old clothing, is it?    Her husband betrayed her.  He broke his vows, his promises.  He is an oath-breaker, to use an old word.   He "put away" the marriage by taking up with another woman.  So the divorce is Mrs. Gibson's fault and doing?   ??? And he is "free"?   Adultery is scripturally a cause for divorce, and it was not Mrs. Gibson who was stepping outside the bounds.

Quote
Also, is Mels' first marriage even recognized by Orthodoxy as being valid since it did not take place in an Orthodox church?  Is Mel's marriage even considered valid by the RCC authorities since it probably took place in a schismatic (by Vatican standards) church?

Why would it not be?  Is this a claim or suggestion that the EO or RC have some kind of "ownership" of marriage? 

« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 02:21:27 PM by Ebor »
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Offline Marc1152

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2009, 02:16:53 PM »
Also, is Mels' first marriage even recognized by Orthodoxy as being valid since it did not take place in an Orthodox church?  Is Mel's marriage even considered valid by the RCC authorities since it probably took place in a schismatic (by Vatican standards) church?

Robb, Mel's marriage took place in Australia with the full blessing of the bishop of that diocese. The nuptial Mass was also Novus Ordo.

As for whether Mel is schismatic (like his father), none of us can surely say. However, I do know some normally very trustworthy priests who (having spoken with him) say that he is not. He does seem to recognize the Holy Father---his father Hutton (a sedevacantist) would never have given the Pope a private showing of the film.

Of course, at the moment he has scandalized many with his actions.



He appears on EWTN fairly often, which leads me to think he is not a`scismatic.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 02:19:07 PM by Marc1152 »
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Robb

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2009, 02:20:26 PM »
Ebor,

You sound so preachy and judgmental when it comes to this issue.  I said that Mel made a mistake and I am sure that he feels much guilt over it.  However he is still entitled to repent for his mistakes and become an Orthodox Christian if he so desires.

Also, how do you know that Mel's wife is so innocent as everyone seems to think she is?  Maybe it was some fault or behavior on her part that caused Mel to fall into such a lowly state?  Se also didn't seem too open to forgiveness from him by filing for divorce.

Adultery is wrong, but it's one of those things that just happens from time to time in life.  Your attitude sounds more like that of a preachy fundamentalist Protestant then an Orthodox Christian.
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2009, 03:01:08 PM »
Ebor,

You sound so preachy and judgmental when it comes to this issue.  I said that Mel made a mistake and I am sure that he feels much guilt over it.  However he is still entitled to repent for his mistakes and become an Orthodox Christian if he so desires.

Of course he can repent.  Repentance should be done after doing wrong.  However, since repentance has to do with turning again away from sin and error, one might think that one could return to those he hurt rather then continuing on the path of broken vows.  I don't know if he's repented of his betrayal.  However this idea that he could become EO just because his new female companion is Russian, strikes me as rather speculative and wishful.  Why would he become EO?  Just to be married again? That is for him to decide and not my business.

Would his becoming EO be counted as a 'notch on the belt', another famous person in one's group? 

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Also, how do you know that Mel's wife is so innocent as everyone seems to think she is?  Maybe it was some fault or behavior on her part that caused Mel to fall into such a lowly state?  Se also didn't seem too open to forgiveness from him by filing for divorce.

How do you know that the lady, the mother of his children, who stuck with him for decades is not "so innocent"?  I'll wager that none of us here now the lady nor Mr. Gibson.  But he is a public figure and his keeping company with another woman is a public story.

It is interesting that you seem to be so casual about casting aspersions on Mrs. Gibson and making the divorce her "fault".  We do not know whether they had counseling together.  We are not privy to any problems that they had over the years.  He is quoted as referring to his wife as a "saint".  But there are things that we will probably never know and they're none of our business anyway. 

My stronger feelings are on the point of appearing to give Mr. Gibson a kind of 'wink and a nod' because he is now with a woman who may or may not be EO.  While at the same time his wife of over 25 years is presented as somehow to blame or "unforgiving" because she filed for divorce.  This is after about 3 years of separation.    Men can have their "mistakes" while women "may be the cause"?

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Adultery is wrong, but it's one of those things that just happens from time to time in life.  Your attitude sounds more like that of a preachy fundamentalist Protestant then an Orthodox Christian.

Adultery doesn't "just happen" like catching a cold or tripping on the steps.  It takes actions and deeds on the part of the people involved.  It needs intent and opportunity and the will to do so.  Both men and women can do it.  It's an act that can have long-ranging consequences. It breaks up homes, it can hurt children and disrupt their lives.  It can affect more then just the people engaged in the deed. 

You do not like some of the words I used.  How is adultery not a "betrayal"?  How is it not "breaking a vow"?  Why would you suggest that maybe it was Mrs. Gibson's fault when you are not privy to their lives?  Does having difficulties with one's spouse make it acceptable or less serious to go elsewhere?  What of the marriage promises? 

It is not my place to have any judgement on Mr. Gibson or the lady he is now having a child with or on Mrs. Gibson.   I don't know them.  My strong feelings are not about them per se, but questioning an apparent double standard.

Just to be clear.  I am no "fundamentalist" protestant or any other.  Nor am I EO.  I am an Anglican who has been married for over 19 years, with three children (one with Downs Syndrome), who takes the marriage vows seriously and believes that both the man and the woman are bound by them.  They are promises before God and His people and not to be set aside lightly.

My apologies for not making myself clear that it is not Mr. Gibson that I have any strong opinions about.   He is a talented actor and I've enjoyed a number of his movies.  His private life is none of my concern.  It is the idea of marriage and adultery that I am thinking on.

With respect,

Ebor
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2009, 03:01:54 PM »
Also, how do you know that Mel's wife is so innocent as everyone seems to think she is?  Maybe it was some fault or behavior on her part that caused Mel to fall into such a lowly state?  Se also didn't seem too open to forgiveness from him by filing for divorce.
Yes, blame the wife for the husband's philandering. ::)  And blame her again for not forgiving him his adultery. ::) ::)  Regardless of what Mrs. Gibson did or did not do that "pushed" Mel to pursue the arms of another woman, nothing can diminish the fact that he reacted by committing adultery.  This desire to betray his wife and renounce a vow he made before God by pursuing a soul-destroying affair was purely Mel Gibson's.

Funny that you should rail against someone else on this forum for being judgmental, yet you would engage in such vile speculative judgment (gossip) of Mel Gibson's wife.  Do the rules you tell others to follow somehow not apply to you?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 03:19:32 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2009, 03:26:09 PM »
Also, how do you know that Mel's wife is so innocent as everyone seems to think she is?  Maybe it was some fault or behavior on her part that caused Mel to fall into such a lowly state?  Se also didn't seem too open to forgiveness from him by filing for divorce.
Yes, blame the wife for the husband's philandering. ::)  And blame her again for not forgiving him his adultery. ::) ::)  Regardless of what Mrs. Gibson did or did not do that "pushed" Mel to pursue the arms of another woman, nothing can diminish the fact that he reacted by committing adultery.  This desire to betray his wife and renounce a vow he made before God by pursuing a soul-destroying affair was purely Mel Gibson's.

Funny that you should rail against someone else on this forum for being judgmental, yet you would engage in such vile speculative judgment (gossip) of Mel Gibson's wife.  Do the rules you tell others to follow somehow not apply to you?

I seem to remember that Mel put the blame all on himself, still calling his wife a saint.

The couple, btw, I understand, have been seperated for 3 years, but Mel claimed that was his fault as well.
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Offline Rosehip

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2009, 03:50:32 PM »
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Just to be clear.  I am no "fundamentalist" protestant or any other.  Nor am I EO.  I am an Anglican who has been married for over 19 years, with three children (one with Downs Syndrome), who takes the marriage vows seriously and believes that both the man and the woman are bound by them.  They are promises before God and His people and not to be set aside lightly.

What a blessing to read your testimony, Ebor! If only there were more such folks in the world, who took their marriages seriously. Very sad that this Russian girl consented to such a relationship with a married man.

+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2009, 05:37:12 PM »
Ebor,

You sound so preachy and judgmental when it comes to this issue.  I said that Mel made a mistake and I am sure that he feels much guilt over it.  However he is still entitled to repent for his mistakes and become an Orthodox Christian if he so desires.

You mean if you so desire. This entire thread is a hypothetical.

Just because his concubine is Russian doesn't mean she is automatically Orthodox. She's a Bond girl---she already has a child from her relationship with Timothy Dalton. Something tells me she spends more time doing this

http://www.red-october.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/oksana.jpg

than darkening the door of Orthodox churches.

And even if she was Orthodox, that doesn't make Mel a possible convert.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2009, 05:40:59 PM »
Also, how do you know that Mel's wife is so innocent as everyone seems to think she is?  Maybe it was some fault or behavior on her part that caused Mel to fall into such a lowly state?  Se also didn't seem too open to forgiveness from him by filing for divorce.

Mel tormented her for decades with alcoholism and bad behavior. It's a miracle she lasted as long as she did. After his conversion in the 90s, she gave him a new lease on life, but now that he's totally fallen off the wagon, I guess she decided she'd had enough.

To his credit, Mel admits publicly that it was totally his fault.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 05:46:15 PM by lubeltri »

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2009, 05:45:29 PM »

Just to be clear.  I am no "fundamentalist" protestant or any other.  Nor am I EO.  I am an Anglican who has been married for over 19 years, with three children (one with Downs Syndrome), who takes the marriage vows seriously and believes that both the man and the woman are bound by them.  They are promises before God and His people and not to be set aside lightly.

POTM nom.

Offline John of the North

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2009, 07:19:17 PM »
Ebor,

You sound so preachy and judgmental when it comes to this issue.  I said that Mel made a mistake and I am sure that he feels much guilt over it.  However he is still entitled to repent for his mistakes and become an Orthodox Christian if he so desires.

You mean if you so desire. This entire thread is a hypothetical.

Just because his concubine is Russian doesn't mean she is automatically Orthodox. She's a Bond girl---she already has a child from her relationship with Timothy Dalton. Something tells me she spends more time doing this

http://www.red-october.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/oksana.jpg

than darkening the door of Orthodox churches.

And even if she was Orthodox, that doesn't make Mel a possible convert.

I agree with lubeltri.....the End is nigh!
“Find the door of your heart, and you will discover it is the door to the kingdom of God.” - St. John Chrysostom

Offline LBK

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Re: Will Mel Gibson become Orthodox?
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2009, 07:23:48 PM »
Has anyone considered the possibility that Oksana Grigorieva may, in fact, not be Orthodox, but Byzantine Catholic or Roman Catholic? She is, after all, Ukrainian. The giveaway is her name: Oksana is the Ukrainian form of Xenia.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?