OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 24, 2014, 01:07:51 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Did Jesus perform any miracles before turning water into wine?  (Read 3393 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Bono Vox
The Orthodox Bagpiper
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,620



« on: July 13, 2009, 02:46:27 PM »

I was at an Orthodox wedding on Saturday. During the homily, the priest discussed Jesus' first miracle of turning water into wine & how the Theotokos was instrumental in getting Him to do so. During the homily, it made me wonder if perhaps Jesus performed other miracles before His first Theophany (perhaps just around His mother?) since it seemed like the Theotokos knew He could do something extraordinary for these people.

I was just curious if anyone knew what the church fathers or Holy Tradition has to say about this. I have been too lazy to look it up online myself.

Thanks
Logged

Troparion - Tone 1:
O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,417


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2009, 03:10:27 PM »

There are apocryphal stories (such as in the Protoevangelium of James)  in which a younger Jesus performs miracles, such as bringing a dead bird back to life, but, IIRC, those are always "private" miracles.

Turning water to wine @ Cana was Jesus' first "public" miracle and usually marks the beginning of his public ministry.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
AlexanderOfBergamo
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Traditionalist Christian
Jurisdiction: The Original First Millennium Church
Posts: 706


« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2009, 04:19:32 PM »

There are apocryphal stories (such as in the Protoevangelium of James)  in which a younger Jesus performs miracles, such as bringing a dead bird back to life, but, IIRC, those are always "private" miracles.

Turning water to wine @ Cana was Jesus' first "public" miracle and usually marks the beginning of his public ministry.

Correct. Jesus may have performed tons of private miracles before. The greatest of these miracles is His virgin birth, after all!
Anyway I think Jesus and Mary were both well aware of Christ's powers. Jesus performed the wine miracle almost naturally, as if it were a very ordinary thing to do for Him... No doubt He had made many miracles before! irenaeus quoted an episode of the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, who is full with miracles performed by Jesus in his childhood. Of course these are pseudepigrapha/apocripha and we can't judge on its historicity.

In Christ,   Alex
Logged

"Also in the Catholic Church itself we take great care that we hold that which has been believed everywhere, always, by all. For that is truly and properly Catholic" (St. Vincent of Lérins, "The Commonitory")
Douglas
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 608


« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2009, 05:04:42 PM »


I was just curious if anyone knew what the church fathers or Holy Tradition has to say about this. I have been too lazy to look it up online myself.

Thanks

My own feeling is... no.

1: And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: 2: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.  3: And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 4: Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

I believe He performed this first miracle at the behest of His Mother. Prior to that, His time had not yet come. Now, I recognize that there are apocryphal stories of private miracles and such, but for me... the Gospel account trumps these.
Logged

Douglas no longer posts on the forum.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 30,431


EXTERMINATE!


« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2009, 05:30:23 PM »


I was just curious if anyone knew what the church fathers or Holy Tradition has to say about this. I have been too lazy to look it up online myself.

Thanks

My own feeling is... no.

1: And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: 2: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.  3: And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 4: Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

I believe He performed this first miracle at the behest of His Mother. Prior to that, His time had not yet come. Now, I recognize that there are apocryphal stories of private miracles and such, but for me... the Gospel account trumps these.
In the end, what has been proclaimed in the written word of the Gospels and in the Holy Tradition of the Church is most likely the sum total of what God wants us to know.  Curiosity about what Jesus may have done before He started His public ministry, outside of what is already recorded of an episode that occurred when Jesus was 12, may be fun and uplifting to some, so I'm not denigrating such intellectual pursuits.  However, I think the Church would have done much more to preserve accounts of Jesus's childhood and early adulthood if such knowledge were truly necessary for our salvation.
Logged
sodr2
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 121


القديس الانبا رويس


« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2009, 11:55:49 PM »

Have you guys forgotten what happened when Jesus entered Egypt as a baby Shocked ?

But Jesus never carries out miracles for His sake during His lifetime (pretty sure), but for other people. I guess Jesus never carried out miracles to *help others* until after He was baptized. I think that's what Jesus was saying when He said His time did not come yet.
Logged

"Happiness depends on the relationship between man and God." Pope Shenouda III
EkhristosAnesti
'I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."' - Psalm 91:2
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Posts: 2,743


Pope St Kyrillos VI


« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2009, 12:20:22 AM »

There is a long-standing tradition in the Coptic Orthodox Church, most extensively and significantly accounted for in the 'Visions of Theophilus,' regarding various miracles performed by the infant Christ during his sojourn with the Holy Virgin and St Joseph in Egypt. A number of the Coptic Church's great holy sites are based on the various places of the Holy Family's visitation and many of these sites have tangible pointers to the historical incidents in question.
Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian
Posts: 6,674



« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2009, 01:43:03 AM »

There is a long-standing tradition in the Coptic Orthodox Church, most extensively and significantly accounted for in the 'Visions of Theophilus,' regarding various miracles performed by the infant Christ during his sojourn with the Holy Virgin and St Joseph in Egypt. A number of the Coptic Church's great holy sites are based on the various places of the Holy Family's visitation and many of these sites have tangible pointers to the historical incidents in question.

I would love to know about these miracles!
Logged
Salpy
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 11,904


St. Hripsimeh pray for us!


« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2009, 02:08:17 AM »

There is a long-standing tradition in the Coptic Orthodox Church, most extensively and significantly accounted for in the 'Visions of Theophilus,' regarding various miracles performed by the infant Christ during his sojourn with the Holy Virgin and St Joseph in Egypt. A number of the Coptic Church's great holy sites are based on the various places of the Holy Family's visitation and many of these sites have tangible pointers to the historical incidents in question.

I would love to know about these miracles!

There is a good book by Otto Meinardus, called Coptic Saints and Pilgrimages:

http://www.amazon.com/Coptic-Saints-Pilgrimages-Otto-Meinardus/dp/9774161262/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247637537&sr=1-1

In the part about pilgrimages, he goes over the places where the Holy Family visited and where  tradition says miracles occurred.  That section is not very long, though.

This is a great DVD:

http://www.jesusinegypt.com/product-info.htm#lostyears

http://www.jesusthelostyears-movie.com/

I saw it a while back, but I remember loving it.  Once in a while it gets played on TV late at night.   Smiley
Logged

"I don't think I've ever eaten anything Armenian I didn't like.  I even drink my non-Armenian coffee out of a St Nersess Seminary coffee mug because it is better that way." --Mor Ephrem
Theophilos78
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Yahwist-Apostolic Christian
Jurisdiction: Adonai Yeshua
Posts: 1,999



« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 05:36:03 AM »

As a part of my project on Islam & the Qur'an, I have been working on the non-canonical Gospels of the Lord's infancy. All of these books relate baby Jesus' miracles prior to the beginning of His prophetic ministry. For some people who may wish to read those Gospels and see what kind of miracles are attributed to infant Jesus, I am giving the links to those non-canonical Gospels below:

The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew: http://www.gnosis.org/library/psudomat.htm

The Gospel of James: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/infancyjames-roberts.html

The Gospel of the Nativity of Mary: http://wesley.nnu.edu/Biblical_Studies/noncanon/gospels/natmary.htm

The Arabic Gospel of Infancy: http://wesley.nnu.edu/Biblical_Studies/noncanon/gospels/infarab.htm
Logged

Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
Wilma
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 26



WWW
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2012, 04:26:17 PM »

I believe whatever miracles Jesus did when he was younger belong only to His Mother and family. The wedding of Canaa is also a testimony if the Holy Theotokos intercession for others. I think God showed mercy to the Virgin Mary and allowed her to give up her child, when she was ready.
Logged

Wilma (Nazarius)

"Humbleness is protection, patience is confirmation, love is defence. Where there is love, there is God, there is all the good…" St. Nazary of Valaam
Tags: miracles Coptic Orthodox Church 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.063 seconds with 37 queries.