Author Topic: Roman Catholic Church the only one around  (Read 2734 times)

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Offline Dennis M.

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Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« on: July 09, 2009, 09:37:39 AM »
Good day and may God Bless you all. I am living in West Virginia. I was born in Pa. and raised in the Byzantine Rite. As I moved around I was always able to find "One of my Churchs." The problem and basic question is that we (MY Mom, Dad, Daughter, Son, Wife and me) are treated as outcasts. we have never recieved communion or particapated in bringing the body and blood of Christ from the rear of the Church. During Easter my wife and mom brought up their baskets to be blessed and some of the church members laughed. The Priest finally blessed the baskets but was unsure. We have been going to this church and explained our beliefs to anyone who asked but alot of times we have to put up with "They are the ones who bless themselfs backwards. We have educated everyone that we can but it seams the the Priest (Roman Cathlolic) seams to avoid talking about the Byzantine Rite. This is the only Cathlolic Churches in 50 miles and the closest Byzantine Church is 2 1/2 hour. I would like some feed back on this.  Thank You,
Dennis Mynuk

Offline Schultz

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2009, 09:47:22 AM »
Good day and may God Bless you all. I am living in West Virginia. I was born in Pa. and raised in the Byzantine Rite. As I moved around I was always able to find "One of my Churchs." The problem and basic question is that we (MY Mom, Dad, Daughter, Son, Wife and me) are treated as outcasts. we have never recieved communion or particapated in bringing the body and blood of Christ from the rear of the Church. During Easter my wife and mom brought up their baskets to be blessed and some of the church members laughed. The Priest finally blessed the baskets but was unsure. We have been going to this church and explained our beliefs to anyone who asked but alot of times we have to put up with "They are the ones who bless themselfs backwards. We have educated everyone that we can but it seams the the Priest (Roman Cathlolic) seams to avoid talking about the Byzantine Rite. This is the only Cathlolic Churches in 50 miles and the closest Byzantine Church is 2 1/2 hour. I would like some feed back on this.  Thank You,
Dennis Mynuk

Why haven't you ever received communion?
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Offline StGeorge

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2009, 10:36:31 AM »
Good day and may God Bless you all. I am living in West Virginia. I was born in Pa. and raised in the Byzantine Rite. As I moved around I was always able to find "One of my Churchs." The problem and basic question is that we (MY Mom, Dad, Daughter, Son, Wife and me) are treated as outcasts. we have never recieved communion or particapated in bringing the body and blood of Christ from the rear of the Church. During Easter my wife and mom brought up their baskets to be blessed and some of the church members laughed. The Priest finally blessed the baskets but was unsure. We have been going to this church and explained our beliefs to anyone who asked but alot of times we have to put up with "They are the ones who bless themselfs backwards. We have educated everyone that we can but it seams the the Priest (Roman Cathlolic) seams to avoid talking about the Byzantine Rite. This is the only Cathlolic Churches in 50 miles and the closest Byzantine Church is 2 1/2 hour. I would like some feed back on this.  Thank You,
Dennis Mynuk

Whereabouts do you live in WV? 

Are there any Orthodox churches near you?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 10:41:18 AM by StGeorge »

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2009, 10:56:55 AM »
Dennis M.

Welcome to the forum!  First, I'm a little confused.  I assume that you and your family go to a Latin Rite Catholic Church though you are a Byzantine Rite Greek Catholic.  Is that correct? 

I'm sorry that you have had this particular ordeal.  Like Schultz asked, why is it that you have not received communion?  Why would there be any hesitancy?  I have heard that for a Byzantine rite catholic to receive communion in a Latin rite, there has to be a jurisdiction transfer approved by the bishop of both rites.  I could be wrong.  Have you had any communication with the priest about this?

Good luck.
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Offline monkvasyl

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2009, 11:12:30 AM »
When I was Roman Catholic, I would often do to my friends' church, which was Ruthenian (Byzantine rite).  Everytime I would receive Communion.  I remember being quizzed by my parish school classmates why I wasn't at church the previous Sunday.  When I told them where I went and what type of communion I received and that the priest was married, they went running to the nun.  She was very kind and told them about the Byzantine rite and that indeed it was Catholic.  I never had to get special permission from the bishop to receive there.  Tho, its a mess trying to change your Rite.  Then the bishops and your pastor would have to get involved.  I was told the easiest way was for my father to become Byzantine, then the entire family would be considered Byzantine.  I remember a funny experience when attending the Divine Liturgy there, right before the Liturgy started I went to confession.  Basically facing the priest (this was all before Vatican II) and when he got up to put his stole over my head for absolution, I got scared and thought he was going to beat me for what I said.  After that, I preferred going to that parish.  On snowy days it was perfect, since it was only 2 blocks away from my home, whereas, my Polish parish was about a mile away.  Also, every Easter, I would take my own basket to get blessed.  The people thought that was so cute that families started their children to bring there own baskets, too.  So if it wasn't for this constant contact and the fact that my maternal grandmother was originally Ukrainian Orthodox, I'd never be Orthodox now.  At an early age my spiritual life became more and more attune to an eastern approach, so it pushed me to investigate the Orthodox church.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 11:18:02 AM by monkvasyl »
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2009, 11:22:56 AM »
Dennis M.

Welcome to the forum!  First, I'm a little confused.  I assume that you and your family go to a Latin Rite Catholic Church though you are a Byzantine Rite Greek Catholic.  Is that correct? 

I'm sorry that you have had this particular ordeal.  Like Schultz asked, why is it that you have not received communion?  Why would there be any hesitancy?  I have heard that for a Byzantine rite catholic to receive communion in a Latin rite, there has to be a jurisdiction transfer approved by the bishop of both rites.  I could be wrong.  Have you had any communication with the priest about this?

Good luck.

A Catholic can receive communion in any Catholic church of any rite at any time (if one is properly disposed, of course).  The same goes for confession.

I think you're referring to a change in rite which makes one able to receive other sacraments (marriage, baptism, etc) in the ritual manner of a rite in which one was not born.  To do that, one must petition his current bishop for a release and the bishop of the other rite for reception.  It usually consists of being a part of the non-native rite's parish life for some years prior to such a petition and, even then, it make take a while more, at least going, say from Latin to Byzantine rite.  No one seems to mind it when a Byzantine Catholic goes the other way. ;)
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Offline Andrea

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2009, 12:19:56 PM »
Good day and may God Bless you all. I am living in West Virginia. I was born in Pa. and raised in the Byzantine Rite. As I moved around I was always able to find "One of my Churchs." The problem and basic question is that we (MY Mom, Dad, Daughter, Son, Wife and me) are treated as outcasts. we have never recieved communion or particapated in bringing the body and blood of Christ from the rear of the Church. During Easter my wife and mom brought up their baskets to be blessed and some of the church members laughed. The Priest finally blessed the baskets but was unsure. We have been going to this church and explained our beliefs to anyone who asked but alot of times we have to put up with "They are the ones who bless themselfs backwards. We have educated everyone that we can but it seams the the Priest (Roman Cathlolic) seams to avoid talking about the Byzantine Rite. This is the only Cathlolic Churches in 50 miles and the closest Byzantine Church is 2 1/2 hour. I would like some feed back on this.  Thank You,
Dennis Mynuk

I'm sorry your family is going through this.  I don't understand the attitude toward the Byzantine Rite that some Latin Rite Catholics have.  Our family is "officially" Latin Rite but we regularly attend the Byzantine Rite.  Several times we've invited our friends from the Latin Rite parish to go to Liturgy with us but they refuse. They just won't. We've run into strange attitudes about it among people we know and we try our best to educate but sometimes it just doesn't work. 

Also, as Shultz says, any Catholic can commune in any Catholic church.  If this church is your only option at this time, perhaps receiving communion might help?

Offline IPC

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2009, 12:21:40 PM »
Dear Dennis M.,

When in Rome, do as in Romans. If you are attending a Roman Catholic Church of a different rite, it would be good for all of you to do as anyone else does during mass, and any other service held in the church. In this way you would not bring attention to yourselves, you won't cause scandal, and you can integrate yourselves more in the parish community.

It would be very good if you had a good talk with the priest, and remind him that you are part of the same Roman Catholic Church, and there is no grounds to deny you blessings, the eucharist, or any other sacrament, and that you are entitled to be treated as anyone else, and you resent the priest's discriminatory and poor attitude towards you, if you are a Byzantine Rite Roman Catholic Family.

I hope you are treated well, and you're no longer discriminated, or treated differently, after all, you are part of the same church, and you have the same rights as anyone else in the parish, you also have the same status, no one has to treat you as "guests" or "intruders".

If the priest does not reconsider his attitude, you simply insist in asking for whatever you need, don't let him push you away, force him to do his job, and give you a good service. Seeing he can't intiminated you or make you feel bad so you leave, he'll have no choice than to do his job.


 



« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 12:29:02 PM by IPC »
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Offline StGeorge

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2009, 08:01:22 PM »
Dennis M.

Welcome to the forum!  First, I'm a little confused.  I assume that you and your family go to a Latin Rite Catholic Church though you are a Byzantine Rite Greek Catholic.  Is that correct? 

I'm sorry that you have had this particular ordeal.  Like Schultz asked, why is it that you have not received communion?  Why would there be any hesitancy?  I have heard that for a Byzantine rite catholic to receive communion in a Latin rite, there has to be a jurisdiction transfer approved by the bishop of both rites.  I could be wrong.  Have you had any communication with the priest about this?

Good luck.

An Eastern Catholic can receive communion at a Latin Catholic parish, and a Latin Catholic can receive communion in an Eastern Catholic church.  There is no need for jurisdiction transfer to receive communion in a Catholic church of another jurisdiction. 

The change of sui iurus church is fairly simple for a Latin Catholic wanting to become Eastern or Oriental Catholic, but the other way around is more difficult, from what I heard.   

« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 08:06:42 PM by StGeorge »

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2009, 08:47:19 PM »
Remember that if your children are members of an Eastern Rite Catholic Church they are fully entitled by canon law to receive communion in a Roman Catholic Church, no matter what their age.

Offline StGeorge

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2009, 09:33:30 PM »
Remember that if your children are members of an Eastern Rite Catholic Church they are fully entitled by canon law to receive communion in a Roman Catholic Church, no matter what their age.

Good point.

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2009, 10:20:25 PM »
Dear Dennis M.,

When in Rome, do as in Romans. If you are attending a Roman Catholic Church of a different rite, it would be good for all of you to do as anyone else does during mass, and any other service held in the church. In this way you would not bring attention to yourselves, you won't cause scandal, and you can integrate yourselves more in the parish community.

Absolutely not.  There is no need to be anything other than Byzantine and it is no scandal.  I would of course stand, sit , kneel when everyone else does out of respect for their tradition, but I would contiue to Cross yourself the Byzantine way and bow rather than genuflect.  Write the Latin bishop if the pastor refuses to respect your rights. 

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Offline Orthodoc

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2009, 04:48:18 PM »

Dennis:

I have been following this thread since your initial post and am a little confused why you chose to post it on an Orthodox  discussion group rather than a discussion group of your own jurisdiction.  Example - the Byzantine Catholic Forum.  The fact that you posted it here indicates that you are aware that the Orthodox Catholic Church exists.  And perhaps even aware that your own church was once part of Orthodox Catholicity.  I won't get off topic here by dwelling on how the schism came about.

From your own words, it seems like you are complaining about being treated as a second class Catholic by those whose direct authority your church is under (by the very fact that you recognize the pope as the chief earthly authority in Christiandom).  My question then is - Why do you stay?  Why do you not consider doing what thousands of former Greek Catholics (including my own grandparents) have done and return to the church of your ancestors. And, for the very same reasons you state. The Orthodox Catholic Church that is mentioned in the Creed you receite.  If you returned to Orthodoxy you would not be giving up your Catholicity (in spite of what you have been taught), you would just be returning to a more ancient and truer (Unchaged) part of the 'One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church' we profess belief in every time we receite the Creed.  I am surprised that no Orthodox Catholic has told you that in their replies.

Excuse me for my honesty and directness but its hard for me to sympathize with you since the solution to your problem is so easy.  If its so important to be under papal authority and believe in papal doctrine then it should make no difference to you which church you attend or even how bad you are treated.  But why be satisfied with being a second class papal Catholic when you can be a first class Orthodox Catholic?

Orthodoc




« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 04:51:55 PM by Orthodoc »
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Offline Robb

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2009, 02:03:50 PM »
I had the very same problems explaining anything about Eastern Christianity to Latin rite Catholics.  They all seem to have a knee jerk reaction to it and immediately want to dismiss what I tell them.  The funny thing is that you seem to get this reaction even from more liberal, ecumenically minded RC's (the type that are just peachy being around Protestants).  I thought that maybe this had to do with lack of knowledge on their part but sometimes it seems deliberate.

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Offline Dennis M.

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Re: Roman Catholic Church the only one around
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2009, 12:19:18 PM »
I wish to thank all of you who have asked questions and given me advice. One question was, "Why haven't I received Communion?"  A little more back ground. I was Baptized and brought up in a very "Religious Family." We spoke only Ukrainian while at home (inside) as my family immigrated. I have and do receive Communion when I am close to a Church of my faith. When I do go to a Roman Catholic Church I still abide by Greek Catholic traditions but also respect the Roman Catholic ways. As you can tell I am puzzled and confused at the differences between our Churches and the misunderstanding Roman Catholics have of the Byzantine Rite. I received Last Rites by a Catholic Priest in Viet Nam and I was more worried if it was OK. If I seem to ramble I apologize, but to me there is a difference. As I stated before when I move to West Virginia our Priest there said if the only choice you have is going to a Roman Catholic Church read the Bible. This may not be the right forum for this, if it is not please let me know. I guess I just have questions.  God Bless  Dennis Mynuk