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OrthodoxChristianity.net > Moderated Forums > Liturgy > Western Rite Discussion (Moderator: arimethea) > Topic: Western Rite Epiclisis in the liturgy of St. Gregory the Great
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« on: July 07, 2009, 07:13:41 PM »
Was the Epiclisis in the liturgy of St. Gregory changed? If so how and why ? Smiley
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 01:24:37 PM »
Quote from: Altar Server on July 07, 2009, 07:13:41 PM
Was the Epiclisis in the liturgy of St. Gregory changed? If so how and why ? Smiley

It wasn't changed, it was inserted; prior to its being approved for use in the AWRV. My only question regarding this is why does such a thing need to be done, when Orthodoxy was fine with the See of Rome using a liturgy without this epiclesis pre-1054.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 01:25:08 PM by Reader KevinAndrew » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 03:48:46 PM »
Quote from: Reader KevinAndrew on July 10, 2009, 01:24:37 PM
Quote from: Altar Server on July 07, 2009, 07:13:41 PM
Was the Epiclisis in the liturgy of St. Gregory changed? If so how and why ? Smiley

It wasn't changed, it was inserted; prior to its being approved for use in the AWRV. My only question regarding this is why does such a thing need to be done, when Orthodoxy was fine with the See of Rome using a liturgy without this epiclesis pre-1054.

Because it had become an issue before 1054, and has remained so ever since.
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 03:50:45 PM »
Western liturgy has never had an explicit epiclsis.
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 02:11:43 AM »
As far as I know, this may be the case - but I have not examined all of them...which ones have you? There are many. My god-father is studying this subject. I'll get back to you.
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 12:10:49 PM »
Quote from: Altar Server on July 10, 2009, 03:50:45 PM
Western liturgy has never had an explicit epiclsis.
If I remember Rome was the only one to lack one, or rather lose the one it had.

Quote
Epiklesis (Latin invocatio) is the name of a prayer that occurs in all Eastern liturgies (and originally in Western liturgies also) after the words of Institution, in which the celebrant prays that God may send down His Holy Spirit to change this bread and wine into the Body and Blood of His Son. This form has given rise to one of the chief controversies between the Eastern and Western Churches, inasmuch as all Eastern schismatics [sic] now believe that the Epiklesis, and not the words of Institution, is the essential form (or at least the essential complement) of the sacrament....

The Catholic [sic] Church has decided the question by making us kneel and adore the Holy Eucharist immediately after the words of Institution, and by letting her old Invocation practically disappear. On the other hand Orthodox theologians all consider the Epiklesis as being at least an essential part of the Consecration.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05502a.htm

Btw, the Vatican's take on this question is the background of the formula "hocus pocus."
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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