OrthodoxChristianity.net
June 19, 2013, 07:38:28 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't like the Lent theme or it's hard for you to read posts with it, feel free to revert back to the old theme in your profile on the left menu "Look and Layout Preferences."
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
OrthodoxChristianity.net > Moderated Forums > Liturgy > Western Rite Discussion (Moderator: arimethea) > Topic: Western Rite Epiclisis in the liturgy of St. Gregory the Great
Pages: 1   Go Down
« previous next »
  Print  
Author Topic: Western Rite Epiclisis in the liturgy of St. Gregory the Great  (Read 1758 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Altar Server
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian(as of 12/18/10)
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 719


Keep me under thy protection O Mother of God!
« on: July 07, 2009, 07:13:41 PM »
Was the Epiclisis in the liturgy of St. Gregory changed? If so how and why ? Smiley
Logged
"Come ye take light from light from the light that is never overtaken by night and glorify Christ who is Risen from the Dead"-Paschal Matins
Reader KevinAndrew
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Western Rite
Posts: 101
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 01:24:37 PM »
Quote from: Altar Server on July 07, 2009, 07:13:41 PM
Was the Epiclisis in the liturgy of St. Gregory changed? If so how and why ? Smiley

It wasn't changed, it was inserted; prior to its being approved for use in the AWRV. My only question regarding this is why does such a thing need to be done, when Orthodoxy was fine with the See of Rome using a liturgy without this epiclesis pre-1054.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 01:25:08 PM by Reader KevinAndrew » Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Megas Domestikos
**********************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 30,241
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 03:48:46 PM »
Quote from: Reader KevinAndrew on July 10, 2009, 01:24:37 PM
Quote from: Altar Server on July 07, 2009, 07:13:41 PM
Was the Epiclisis in the liturgy of St. Gregory changed? If so how and why ? Smiley

It wasn't changed, it was inserted; prior to its being approved for use in the AWRV. My only question regarding this is why does such a thing need to be done, when Orthodoxy was fine with the See of Rome using a liturgy without this epiclesis pre-1054.

Because it had become an issue before 1054, and has remained so ever since.
Logged
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Altar Server
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian(as of 12/18/10)
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 719


Keep me under thy protection O Mother of God!
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 03:50:45 PM »
Western liturgy has never had an explicit epiclsis.
Logged
"Come ye take light from light from the light that is never overtaken by night and glorify Christ who is Risen from the Dead"-Paschal Matins
simplygermain
beer-bellied tellitubby
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA - Northwest, Baby!
Posts: 771


Zechariah 11:7


WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 02:11:43 AM »
As far as I know, this may be the case - but I have not examined all of them...which ones have you? There are many. My god-father is studying this subject. I'll get back to you.
Logged
I believe, help Thou my unbelief!! - St. John of Krondstadt

http://Http://hairshirtagenda.blogspot.com

 Witega: "Bishops and Metropolitans and even Patriarchs have been removed under decidedly questionable circumstances before but the Church moves on."
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Megas Domestikos
**********************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 30,241
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 12:10:49 PM »
Quote from: Altar Server on July 10, 2009, 03:50:45 PM
Western liturgy has never had an explicit epiclsis.
If I remember Rome was the only one to lack one, or rather lose the one it had.

Quote
Epiklesis (Latin invocatio) is the name of a prayer that occurs in all Eastern liturgies (and originally in Western liturgies also) after the words of Institution, in which the celebrant prays that God may send down His Holy Spirit to change this bread and wine into the Body and Blood of His Son. This form has given rise to one of the chief controversies between the Eastern and Western Churches, inasmuch as all Eastern schismatics [sic] now believe that the Epiklesis, and not the words of Institution, is the essential form (or at least the essential complement) of the sacrament....

The Catholic [sic] Church has decided the question by making us kneel and adore the Holy Eucharist immediately after the words of Institution, and by letting her old Invocation practically disappear. On the other hand Orthodox theologians all consider the Epiklesis as being at least an essential part of the Consecration.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05502a.htm

Btw, the Vatican's take on this question is the background of the formula "hocus pocus."
Logged
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
OrthodoxChristianity.net > Moderated Forums > Liturgy > Western Rite Discussion (Moderator: arimethea) > Topic: Western Rite Epiclisis in the liturgy of St. Gregory the Great
« previous next »
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.044 seconds with 33 queries.