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Author Topic: HIM Selassie and the Diamond-like hand sign  (Read 20569 times) Average Rating: 0
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EkhristosAnesti
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« on: July 02, 2009, 03:12:05 AM »

I was hoping one of our Ethiopian brethren would help clarify the meaning of the diamond-like hand sign often displayed by HIM in various photos such as the one here.

In his translation of the Kebra Nagast, Miguel Brooks remarks that such a sign represents 'the mystical or metaphysical "Salutation of Peace" or the Sign of the Holy Trinity. The triangle pointing downwards is an esoteric symbol representing the material phase of the Seal of Solomon; the six-pointed star is also known as the Star of David.'

The above really frustrates me on a number of levels. First of all, he doesn't explain how the signal represents either Peace of the Holy Trinity. Second of all, three different interpretations are given, and the last one isn't even consistent in that it refers to a triangle-shape at first, and then suggests that such is indicative of the six-pointed Star of David. A star is not a triangle; last time I checked, the latter has three points. And the hand sign displayed has neither three nor six points anyway, but four...What am I missing here?

« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 03:16:50 AM by EkhristosAnesti » Logged

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EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2009, 04:44:57 AM »

Sorry, need to correct a typo above for the sake of coherence:

3rd paragraph:
"peace of the Holy Trinity" --- what I meant was "peace OR the Holy Trinity"
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2009, 07:46:10 AM »

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,12209.msg165972.html#msg165972
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2009, 03:35:30 AM »

[Quote from: Amdetsion on July 21, 2007, 04:46:53 AM]
"No..

This symbolic way of holding his hands together is his sovreign right as regent and blood line of the king and prophet David himself. This hand jesture is not to be used by anyone other a person other than a true heir AFTER coronation. To do so otherwise is simply false.

Some people may use it to remember HIM life and the love for the hope that the moanarchy will come out of exile in the USA and be re-established in Ethiopia.

Some people make the jesture (innocently) out of ignorance.

Generally this is not used in Ethiopian society."




This hand gesture is used by Rastafarians to symbolize the Holy Trinity and to honor His Majesty Haile Selassie I. Even after my baptism I have continued to use this holy gesture, and it has often led to opportunities for me to share my Christian faith. When people ask me what it means, I am able to discuss the holy trinity with them and also share knowledge about Emperor Haile Selassie and the true and ancient Church of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Faith.

This is the first time I have heard that it should not be used by those who are not coronated. But thank you Amdetsion for explaining this. I will still use this symbol though, because it is rich in Christian meaning and holy significance. As Amdetsion points out: "Some people may use it to remember HIM life and the love for the hope that the moanarchy will come out of exile in the USA and be re-established in Ethiopia."

Selam
« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 03:49:04 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2009, 07:25:20 AM »

http://groups.google.pl/group/rec.music.reggae/browse_thread/thread/ed6d5ae052d800f9/ - here's an interesting interpretation by an (Eastern) Orthodox Christian.
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EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2009, 10:11:24 AM »

Thanks for all your input.

Taking everything submitted thus far into consideration, I am assuming then that the precise shape intended by the gesture is a deliberate slight corruption of an upside down equilateral triangle. The slight corruption being intended to altar the shape of the triangle just enough to make it somewhat resemble a heart.

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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2009, 05:33:49 PM »

http://groups.google.pl/group/rec.music.reggae/browse_thread/thread/ed6d5ae052d800f9/ - here's an interesting interpretation by an (Eastern) Orthodox Christian.

A beautiful and appropriate interpretation!

Selam
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2010, 07:04:20 AM »

Thought this picture of H.G. Gregorios, Archbishop of Thyateira and GB was cool
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2010, 10:12:14 AM »

Thought this picture of H.G. Gregorios, Archbishop of Thyateira and GB was cool

Is His Grace deliberately making the sign, or just twiddling his thumbs?  Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2010, 10:21:29 AM »

Is His Grace deliberately making the sign, or just twiddling his thumbs?  Smiley

Fairly sure it's the latter. Then again, the Greek churches under his care in London have a particularly close relationship to the Ethiopian and Eritrean churches, so you never know Wink
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« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2010, 05:56:07 PM »

Dear Ekhristos Anesti-my brother,

Peace to you...as usual, I'm late to reply to posts.  The translation of the Kebre Negest by Miguel Brooks is under the influence of Rastafarians.  Also, I have looked at pictures and paintings of the recent kings of Ethiopia [150-200 years ago] and I haven't seen this hand jesture!  Why don't the patriarchs or archbishops make this sign? Our hand jesture symbolizing the Holy Trinity is the sign of the Cross, nothing else; even for emperors.

Jesuits of Portugal like Juan Alvarez, who were so-called religious freemasons, heard and wrote about priestly king(s) of Ethiopia, like Emperor Lebna Dingil's father: Atse Na'od and called him Prestor John. When one reads about the life of Atse Na'od, Zera Ya'kob, Lalibela, Yemharene Kristos, Dawit III (?), Kaleb, Gebre Meskel, Abreha and Atsbeha, and others like them...one sees the difference.  These kings were priestly.  They truly visited and blessed the people. They embraced the people and decorated Churches, not their palace(s). 

I've read the links to others' opinions on this so-called 'royal' or 'divine' symbol, but in my strict, or should I say, "my opinion that is strictly mine", the symbol is perhaps one of the freemasons' or illuminati...


http://www.whale.to/b/triangle_h.html

On the contrary, I'm not trying to make another subject out of this, but when one gets another look at the less compassionate side of the emperor, one could refute his attributed 'saintliness'.  Not that I hate or dislike the emperor, but as some of the members said, "he was still an imperialist..."

I want to further address the posts on His Imperial Majesty, but I don't want to seem like I'm degrading him. I'm not saying that H.I.M. wasn't Christian or educated by the Church, because he was, 'but even the demons tremble at the presence of the Lord and know that He is the Almighty One!'

Thank you for reading and take care in Christ,

haile amanuel
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2010, 07:01:22 PM »

Dear Ekhristos Anesti-my brother,

Peace to you...as usual, I'm late to reply to posts.  The translation of the Kebre Negest by Miguel Brooks is under the influence of Rastafarians.  Also, I have looked at pictures and paintings of the recent kings of Ethiopia [150-200 years ago] and I haven't seen this hand jesture!  Why don't the patriarchs or archbishops make this sign? Our hand jesture symbolizing the Holy Trinity is the sign of the Cross, nothing else; even for emperors.

Jesuits of Portugal like Juan Alvarez, who were so-called religious freemasons, heard and wrote about priestly king(s) of Ethiopia, like Emperor Lebna Dingil's father: Atse Na'od and called him Prestor John. When one reads about the life of Atse Na'od, Zera Ya'kob, Lalibela, Yemharene Kristos, Dawit III (?), Kaleb, Gebre Meskel, Abreha and Atsbeha, and others like them...one sees the difference.  These kings were priestly.  They truly visited and blessed the people. They embraced the people and decorated Churches, not their palace(s). 

I've read the links to others' opinions on this so-called 'royal' or 'divine' symbol, but in my strict, or should I say, "my opinion that is strictly mine", the symbol is perhaps one of the freemasons' or illuminati...


http://www.whale.to/b/triangle_h.html

On the contrary, I'm not trying to make another subject out of this, but when one gets another look at the less compassionate side of the emperor, one could refute his attributed 'saintliness'.  Not that I hate or dislike the emperor, but as some of the members said, "he was still an imperialist..."

I want to further address the posts on His Imperial Majesty, but I don't want to seem like I'm degrading him. I'm not saying that H.I.M. wasn't Christian or educated by the Church, because he was, 'but even the demons tremble at the presence of the Lord and know that He is the Almighty One!'

Thank you for reading and take care in Christ,

haile amanuel

Thank you as always for the information HaileAmanuel. I have heard many rumors that His Majesty was a Mason. I cannot believe this. How could a man so devoted to Orthodoxy be a member of a satanic secret society? I have always understood that H.I.M.'s hand gesture was symbolic of the Holy Trinity. I know that Rastafarians universally interpret it as such. (I think Miguel Brooks' interpretation is quite a bit off the mark.) Anyway, perhaps His Majesty came up with this symbol himself, as a way to recall his name and the Triune God he served. I don't know. But I still use this symbol often, as a way to reflect upon the Holy Trinity.

Thanks again.


Selam
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2010, 07:20:28 PM »

While I don't know what exactly my brother Haile Amanuel is referring to as the Emperor's "less compassionate side", and I would hope he is not refering to the now completely discreditted anti-Haile Selassie propoganda of the Derg era, I would agree with him completely that the translation of the Kebre Negest by Mr. Brooks is Rastafarian interpretation and is heavily tinged with their views.  As he states, there are many photographs of Emperor Haile Selassie's predicessors such as Empress Zewditu, Lij Iyasu (uncrowned Emperor-designate), Emperor Menelik II, Emperor Yohannes IV, and numerous illustrations of Tewodros II and other Ethiopian monarchs and as Haile Amanuel states, none of them is shown making this hand gesture which have been ascribed such deep and significant meanings connected with their sovreignity.  After he formally claimed the Imperial throne in exile in 1989, the Emperor's son Crown Prince Asfaw Wossen never started using this gesture either, which if it really had such a significance, he would have done.  

The hand gesture was simply an personal gesture that his Imperial Majesty made out of personal habit and had no other religious or political significance.  Because he did it so often, it became identified with him, but it had no deeper meaning.

His Imperial Majesty was a very devout Orthodox Christian and was most certainly never a mason.  This is another relatively recent and totally false rumor that has emerged which seemingly intends to give the Emperor added "mystique".
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 07:23:31 PM by Tewahido Deacon » Logged
HaileAmanuel
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2010, 09:00:09 PM »

Dear Tewahido Deacon,

Thank you for your insights to my post, but my reference to H.I.M. Haile Selassie's 'less compassionate' side was not motivated by propaganda of the the Derg, the Socialists of Ethiopia or by any other political party.  Haile Selassie was a king who tried his best to defend his empire and inherently had an incompassionate side. Of course His Majesty was an Orthodox Christian! No one denies that. Of course His Majesty expressed his love for the Orthodox Faith and Church, but on the other hand, he also expressed his royal aristocracy.  He was a king and a political statesman...

When I suggested that H.I.M. was a mason, that is of my personal opinion and it's not strict; I have my own personal reasons for these thoughts.

Thank you,

haile amanuel
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2010, 03:41:42 AM »

A tangent about Melchizedek was put here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28793.new.html#new
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