I would like to have a discussion on the relationship between Original Sin & Baptism from an Orthodox perspective. I am a recent convert to Orthodoxy (and new to the forum) from Roman Catholicism and feel that I have a pretty good handle on the Catholic understanding of Original Sin and Baptism. I would like it if senior members on the forum or those educated on the subject would discuss it from an Orthodox perspective. Here is my understanding of Orthodox belief about Orignal SIn: - That it is not a transmission of guilt, of Adam and Eve's personal sin but its a transmission of our fallen nature ( wounded state, propensity toward sin, inhibiting our fellowship with God, etc) however we are not totally depraved. Of Baptism: - That Baptism is for the forgiveness of sins, that we are "born again" in baptism, that we die and are reborn into newness of life in Christ, that it is the entry sacrament to belong to Christ and his Church. And IF it can be said that we are cleansed from Original Sin in baptism . It is my understanding that the Fathers taught and believed that you were cleansed of Original Sin in baptism (I guess the real question is what is meant by such a statment). So here are my questions/or points that I would like to have discussed:
1) Do Orthodox have a problem with that phrase "Baptism washes us from Original Sin?
2)Infant baptism is more that just welcoming a child into the church, there are implications that the state of soul has changed, they are born again. How does Original Sin fit in with infant baptism?
3)If Baptism heals your wounded nature and propensity to Sin from a fallen state to a renewed life in Christ, then why do we still die? ( and what role/relationship does Original Sin play in this?)
Im sure this is enough to start the discussion, and that many other questions/answers will be brought up in the course of the dialog, thanks and God Bless!
LOL. You got that right.http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21719.0.htmlhttp://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,3237.0.htmlhttp://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,20612.0.html
1) not really, sort of like Achilles' mother dipping him in the Styx made him invulnerable (except the heel she held him from).
2) one is born to die, and in baptism one dies and is reborn to live.
3) in baptism we are united to Christ, but we do not become Christ in the sense that we do not become God as He is God. The icon of the Resurrection is the New Adam grabbing the Old Adam: we come into union with the New, but are not cut off from the Old, because that would not only mean that we left human nature, corrupted by history but not by essence, but also it would be something that Christ did not do in the Incarnation. Only if we abolished the autonomy of the human person, as the IC does, could baptism mean we would not have to die as Christ died, He for us, us for our own sins.