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« on: June 21, 2009, 03:15:14 AM »


Is it true that the inside of mosques usually have a stinky foot oder smell from everyone taking their shoes off. I have read that the Blue Mosque in Istanbul (aka Constantinople) is the worst.


http://travelwithmichelle.com/_wsn/page19.html (read the Istanbul part)
http://valondon.blogspot.com/2007/05...antinople.html (read part on Blue Mosque)
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2009, 07:01:43 AM »

No ,,they wash there feet and other parts nose, mouth.hands elbows...I been to a sunni,and shia mosque with my friends..very clean in personal hygene....
i brought them to church a few times ,,the shia friend was very impressed especally when there was a procession he liked it alot he said were almost the same....
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2009, 07:30:51 AM »

No. I've been to the Blue Mosque and there is not any bad smell. Maybe it's that because it's so big?
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2009, 06:03:55 PM »

Probably depends if they're wearing shoes or sandals, and the climate of the region.   
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2009, 08:10:45 PM »

I have been in plenty of mosques, but I have no sense of smell, unless it is overpowering.  I've never, nor anyone I know, ever complained of any smell.
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2009, 08:13:17 PM »

I guess it's time to check out the local mosque...
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2009, 08:17:49 PM »

What a thread, oh my...  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2009, 11:44:19 PM »

I think they take off their shoes for liturgy in the EOTC in general.

I've been to one and it did not smell like feet. I noticed an incense smell, though.
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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2009, 02:56:16 PM »

Do Muslims use incense?
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« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2009, 03:16:12 PM »

AFAIK, none of the sects of Islam use incense.  And as far as there being a foot odor, I never encountered anything of the kind in all the mosques I've visited.  Muslims are required to perform a ritualistic washing (called 'wudhu', 'wudu', or 'wuzu') of certain parts of their person before they pray; one of said parts is their feet (as Stashko mentioned).  Their shoes, on the other hand, are just like our shoes- some would benefit from an appointment with Dr. Scholls.  Smiley  But again, this was never an issue in any of the mosques I visited; I'm not claiming that this isnever an issue, but with all the ritualistic washing 5 times a day, I can't imagine it being an issue.  And they don't really have a Liturgy or a whole day set aside for rest.  Rather, they come together for Salaatul Jum'ah or The Friday Prayers held in the early afternoon at a mosque.  It typically consists of the call to prayer, the sermon, prayers and prostrations then the dismissal.  This is typical of Sunni's and Shi'ites, more or less.  Hope this helps.  Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2009, 04:21:56 PM »

Do Muslims use incense?

Yes they do,"no incense" practice is the innovation of Wahhabiyaالوهابية.

The traditional muslims use incense:
وَالطَّيِّبَاتُ لِلطَّيِّبِينَ وَالطَّيِّبُونَ لِلطَّيِّبَاتِ أُوْلَئِكَ مُبَرَّؤُونَ مِمَّا يَقُولُونَ لَهُم مَّغْفِرَةٌ وَرِزْقٌ كَرِيمٌ(Clean women assort with clean men,clen men with clean women,they are not related with the evil saying,they shoud be forgiven and enjoy great grace.)

قال النبي عليه السلام: المؤمن اطيب من عمله والكافر اخبث من عمله
Faithfuls are more clean even than their practice,and infidel are more olid then their practice.(روح البيان)


قال النبي عليه السلام: ستة من سنن المرسلين .الحياء والحلم والحمامة والسواك والتعطر وكثره الازدواج
Six practice are commom in all prophets and saints,one of them is use incence.
تذكير الواعظين


)وكان عليه السلام يأمر بتطيب المساجد وتنطيفها وصيانتها من الرواءح الكريهة و يقول عرض على اجور امتى حتى القذاة يخرجها الرجل من المسجد وكان يأمر بتجمير المساجد فى الجميع
The prophet ordered people burn incense in mosques(كشف الغمة


عن النبي عليه السلام: من شم الورد الاحمر ولم يصل
على فقد جفاني
(The prophet said,when people smells the incense of red rose,they should praise me)


عن انس رضي الله عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: خلق الله الورد الاحمر من بهائه وجعله ريح الانبياء فمن اراد ان ينظرالى بهاء الله تعالى ويشم رائحة الانبياء فلينظر الورد الاحمر
(The prophet said ,God created incense from His Light,and change it into the aroma of all prophets and saints.Then,whoever want to see the glory of God and smell the aroma of Saints,he should offer red rose incense.)


قال الاصحاب: الطيب شم الورد الاحمر نافع لاصحاب الصفراء ويقوى الاعضاء الباطنية ويسكن الاحمر وصراع الحارى
Disciples of the Prophet used incense healed many illnesses.
(نزهة المجليس


)عن موسى بن انس بن مالك عن ابيه: كان لرسول الله سكت يتطيب منها
قال النبي عليه السلام: اذا اعطي احدكم الريحان فلايرد فانه خرج من الجنّة
The prophet had a censer and used it.
He said : do not reject anybody cense you,since the incense is from haven.
(شمائل الترمذى
(مكرم الاخلاق

)روي عن عائشة رضى الله عنها انها قالت طيبوا البيت فان ذالك من تطهره لااطيب الكعبة احب الى من ان اهدي لها ذهب وفضة
Ayisha said: you should offer incense in Kaaba and cleanse it,this practice is better than adorn it with gold.

ان ابن الزبير لما فرغ من بناء الكعبة خلق باطنها وظاهرها بالصنبر والمسك من اعلاها الى اسفلها ثم كسلها وكان يجمرها فى كل يوم برطل من الطيب وفى يوم الجمعة
برطلين واجرالها معاوية الطيب لكل صلاة فكان يبعث به في موسم الحجة
(Incense be used in Kaaba everyday ,even every salat.)


قال النووي رحمه الله: لايجوز اخذ شيء من طيب الكعبة لالتبرك ولالغيره و من اخذ شيأ من ذاك لزمه رده فان اراد التبرك اتي
بطيب من عنده فمسحها به ثم يأخذ ه
(The incense ever offered to kaaba,should not be moven for other usage)
(جامع اللطيف


)ذكره ابن الحاج ان دخا ن البيت لايذهب يمينا ولا شمالا ولااماما ولا خلفا بل يصعد مستويا الى السماء قال
الفاسي: ولعل المراد بالدخان دخان ما تجمر به الكعبة والله اعلم
The smoke of incense from kaaba ascend to God.
(جامع اللطف


)واذا دخل الدخان اوالغبار او ريح العطر او الذباب حلقه لا يفسد صومه
Do not worry that the incense will destroy your fasting.
(فتوى المقير
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2009, 04:29:44 PM »

In many asian countries people enter church(orthodox church) without shoes(for example: Indonesia and Thailand). But I never ever heard about "bad smell" problem.
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2009, 05:19:46 PM »

Do Muslims use incense?


Yes they do ,but not during the services ...Before everything starts...to freshen the air,,but not because of the feet or shoes by the door....
This is what a muslim friend told me...
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2009, 05:32:23 PM »

Do Muslims use incense?

Yes they do,"no incense" practice is the innovation of Wahhabiyaالوهابية.

Elpidophoros, thank you for the quotes you've provided.  Smiley  Though somewhat useful, I believe that these are hadith and that they are actually dealing more with perfumes and fragrances (such as various herbs and flowers) rather than incense as the Orthodox Church understands 'incense' (and probably how Mike intended his question).  Furthermore, there are no "saints" in Sunni Islam (and please note that Sunni does not equate Wahhabiya).  In traditional Shia Islam, the concept of "saint" (as understood in Orthodox Christianity) is still foreign (though the word is sometimes used); more likely, these "saints" are simply famous "martyrs".  And though the faithful often seek out their tombs, typically they do not pray to them nor ask for them to pray for the living.  As for some sects that might possibly use incense as understood in a more typical Orthodox Christian fashion, I could see where some of the more mystical Sufi sects would employ it.  In addition, my experiences with Indonesian Muslims leads me to believe that incense as Orthodox Christians understand it might be employed.  But this is due to the fact that in some places in Indonesia, Islam has been mixed with the older 'animist' beliefs.  Such could be the case elsewhere in the world as well.  But as for mainstream Islam, incense as Orthodox Christianity understands it, is almost unheard of.  This especially holds true with our understanding of the word "saints".    

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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2009, 05:39:06 PM »

Do Muslims use incense?


Yes they do ,but not during the services ...Before everything starts...to freshen the air,,but not because of the feet or shoes by the door....
This is what a muslim friend told me...
Do you remember what sect your friend represented?  When I was a practicing Muslim, I prayed inside Sunni and Shi'a mosques.  These mosques were in Chicago, St. Louis, Oklahoma City, Columbia MO and California.  They also not only represented Sunni and Shi'a, but various ethnic groups such as Bosnians, Indian, Indonesians, Turks as well as Arabs (from the Sa'udi Kingdom as well as Egypt, Sudan, and Morocco).  Not once did I ever witness or even hear of incense being employed.  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm simply curious as to who these Muslims are that use incense?  Undecided
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2009, 06:16:48 PM »

I guess it's time to check out the local mosque...

Hmm, I live two doors down from a mosque. Often, when I walk by, they are handing out "Come and See"-type brochures. I have gotten a few myself.

Perhaps I will come and see (and smell Wink ) one of these days.
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2009, 08:05:26 PM »

Do Muslims use incense?


Yes they do ,but not during the services ...Before everything starts...to freshen the air,,but not because of the feet or shoes by the door....
This is what a muslim friend told me...
Do you remember what sect your friend represented?  When I was a practicing Muslim, I prayed inside Sunni and Shi'a mosques.  These mosques were in Chicago, St. Louis, Oklahoma City, Columbia MO and California.  They also not only represented Sunni and Shi'a, but various ethnic groups such as Bosnians, Indian, Indonesians, Turks as well as Arabs (from the Sa'udi Kingdom as well as Egypt, Sudan, and Morocco).  Not once did I ever witness or even hear of incense being employed.  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm simply curious as to who these Muslims are that use incense?  Undecided

There is no liturgical use: it is often used to scare off spirits, or just to make the place smell nice. I've seen/heard of it in Egypt, Syria, Morroco, Turkey.
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2009, 08:09:06 PM »

Do Muslims use incense?

Yes they do,"no incense" practice is the innovation of Wahhabiyaالوهابية.

Elpidophoros, thank you for the quotes you've provided.  Smiley  Though somewhat useful, I believe that these are hadith and that they are actually dealing more with perfumes and fragrances (such as various herbs and flowers) rather than incense as the Orthodox Church understands 'incense' (and probably how Mike intended his question).  Furthermore, there are no "saints" in Sunni Islam (and please note that Sunni does not equate Wahhabiya).  In traditional Shia Islam, the concept of "saint" (as understood in Orthodox Christianity) is still foreign (though the word is sometimes used); more likely, these "saints" are simply famous "martyrs".  And though the faithful often seek out their tombs, typically they do not pray to them nor ask for them to pray for the living.  As for some sects that might possibly use incense as understood in a more typical Orthodox Christian fashion, I could see where some of the more mystical Sufi sects would employ it.  In addition, my experiences with Indonesian Muslims leads me to believe that incense as Orthodox Christians understand it might be employed.  But this is due to the fact that in some places in Indonesia, Islam has been mixed with the older 'animist' beliefs.  Such could be the case elsewhere in the world as well.  But as for mainstream Islam, incense as Orthodox Christianity understands it, is almost unheard of.  This especially holds true with our understanding of the word "saints".    



They are called "waly" techincally but often addressed as sayyid/siidii (man) or sayyidatna (woman), and there are plenty of them.  Sufism is usually the promotion.  And I remember being told that Muslims don't pray to saints when I was in Ruumi's tomb, where a Muslim was doing just that.
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2009, 08:21:26 PM »

Do Muslims use incense?

قال النبي عليه السلام: ستة من سنن المرسلين .الحياء والحلم والحمامة والسواك والتعطر وكثره الازدواج
Six practice are commom in all prophets and saints,one of them is use incence.

LOL.  What is actually says is "The Prophet (upon him peace): six of the practices (sunnah) of those sent (i.e. prophets) : shame, forebearance, bathing, toothbrushes, perfuming, and multiplying marriages Shocked
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« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2009, 08:35:22 PM »

Do Muslims use incense?


Yes they do ,but not during the services ...Before everything starts...to freshen the air,,but not because of the feet or shoes by the door....
This is what a muslim friend told me...
Do you remember what sect your friend represented?  When I was a practicing Muslim, I prayed inside Sunni and Shi'a mosques.  These mosques were in Chicago, St. Louis, Oklahoma City, Columbia MO and California.  They also not only represented Sunni and Shi'a, but various ethnic groups such as Bosnians, Indian, Indonesians, Turks as well as Arabs (from the Sa'udi Kingdom as well as Egypt, Sudan, and Morocco).  Not once did I ever witness or even hear of incense being employed.  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm simply curious as to who these Muslims are that use incense?  Undecided

There is no liturgical use: it is often used to scare off spirits, or just to make the place smell nice. I've seen/heard of it in Egypt, Syria, Morroco, Turkey.

I learn something everyday!  Smiley  But honestly, in the 10 years I practiced Islam, I never saw or heard of using incense.  To scare off spirits, I remember seeing the Hand of Hamsa (Khamsa)-



Except it had an 'evil eye' in the center and was silver-

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« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2009, 08:38:18 PM »

Do Muslims use incense?


Yes they do ,but not during the services ...Before everything starts...to freshen the air,,but not because of the feet or shoes by the door....
This is what a muslim friend told me...
Do you remember what sect your friend represented?  When I was a practicing Muslim, I prayed inside Sunni and Shi'a mosques.  These mosques were in Chicago, St. Louis, Oklahoma City, Columbia MO and California.  They also not only represented Sunni and Shi'a, but various ethnic groups such as Bosnians, Indian, Indonesians, Turks as well as Arabs (from the Sa'udi Kingdom as well as Egypt, Sudan, and Morocco).  Not once did I ever witness or even hear of incense being employed.  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm simply curious as to who these Muslims are that use incense?  Undecided


A shia pakistani Friend told me this of the incense use in the jamia's Mosques ,because he liked it when he smelled it in the orthodox church,thats when he mentioned it ...I said Oh! I didn't know thats very interesting....
He mentioned Most Mosques do that before services...
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« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2009, 12:38:17 PM »

They are called "waly" techincally but often addressed as sayyid/siidii (man) or sayyidatna (woman), and there are plenty of them.  Sufism is usually the promotion.  And I remember being told that Muslims don't pray to saints when I was in Ruumi's tomb, where a Muslim was doing just that.

If I understand well "waly/olya" means "the friend(s)of God" ,sayyid means "leader". In fact,in western China the tombs of Waly/Olya are everywhere,people go and pray there ,seek intercession and help from them . Here people believe that they are living ,they prayer in the tomb,and the tomb mysticaly became a part of Paradise.People offer insence before those tombs and even prostrate before them——the body of a waly is the mystical Kaaba and his hand is equal the black stone.
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« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2009, 12:49:11 PM »

Do Muslims use incense?

قال النبي عليه السلام: ستة من سنن المرسلين .الحياء والحلم والحمامة والسواك والتعطر وكثره الازدواج
Six practice are commom in all prophets and saints,one of them is use incence.

LOL.  What is actually says is "The Prophet (upon him peace): six of the practices (sunnah) of those sent (i.e. prophets) : shame, forebearance, bathing, toothbrushes, perfuming, and multiplying marriages Shocked

I did not put the whole sentence intended.....you destroyed the harmony... Grin

But this hadith is little strange ,can not justify itsself——Isa surely is one of those be sent,but according to Islam he had even no one wife.... Huh
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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2009, 02:15:45 PM »

Some pics of muslim usage of incense stick in China:



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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2009, 03:12:51 PM »

^^OK, now I think I understand where my confusion may be coming from.  If I had to make an educated guess, I would say that the people in the pictures are ethnic Uyghurs (Uigers).  Though they are a Turkic people (their country is now in China, but formerly East Turkestan), they were Buddhist before they converted to Islam.  And as I posited in an earlier post about some Indonesians mixing Islam and earlier animist beliefs, I would posit that what we're seeing in the pictures you've provided seem to be the same religio-sociological phenomena.  So, having said that, I will agree with you that Muslims (using a liberal, broader understanding of the word) in some cultures do use incense.  But I stand firm in saying that incense in traditional Islam has no religious significance. 
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« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2009, 03:15:43 PM »

Holy cow... Shrink the images next time!
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2009, 03:29:28 PM »

^^OK, now I think I understand where my confusion may be coming from.  If I had to make an educated guess, I would say that the people in the pictures are ethnic Uyghurs (Uigers).  Though they are a Turkic people (their country is now in China, but formerly East Turkestan), they were Buddhist before they converted to Islam.  And as I posited in an earlier post about Indonesians mixing Islam and earlier animist beliefs, I would posit that what we're seeing in the pictures you've provided seem to be the same religio-sociological phenomena.  So, having said that, I will agree with you that Muslims (using a liberal, broader understanding of the word) do use incense.   

1,The land of  Uyghurs became a part of China during Han dynasty ,and the so called  East Turkestan never existed as a real country.

2,The people in those pics are not uyghurs ,they are chinese-speaker muslim(Hui or Hui-hui).

3,No proof to show that they are all former Buddhist——most of them are descendants of arab-sino or persi-sino mixed marriage (were prevalent in western China during Tang and Yuan dynasties), other of them converted from various other religions(specially from Nestorianism and Judaism not only Buddhism.)

4,Almost all Hui muslims belong to "Gedim"group——very traditional and faithful to the school of the Great Imam Hanafi. They are orthodox Sunni,not a kind of Syncretism or mixed religion.
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2009, 03:33:43 PM »

Holy cow... Shrink the images next time!
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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2009, 04:16:34 PM »

^^OK, now I think I understand where my confusion may be coming from.  If I had to make an educated guess, I would say that the people in the pictures are ethnic Uyghurs (Uigers).  Though they are a Turkic people (their country is now in China, but formerly East Turkestan), they were Buddhist before they converted to Islam.  And as I posited in an earlier post about Indonesians mixing Islam and earlier animist beliefs, I would posit that what we're seeing in the pictures you've provided seem to be the same religio-sociological phenomena.  So, having said that, I will agree with you that Muslims (using a liberal, broader understanding of the word) do use incense.   

1,The land of  Uyghurs became a part of China during Han dynasty ,and the so called  East Turkestan never existed as a real country.
Real country?  The Palestinians might disagree with this designation of a real country.  Same for the Kurds and Kurdistan.  Most assuredly the Uyghurs disagree with this designation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_East_Turkestan_Republic


2,The people in those pics are not uyghurs ,they are chinese-speaker muslim(Hui or Hui-hui).

3,No proof to show that they are all former Buddhist——most of them are descendants of arab-sino or persi-sino mixed marriage (were prevalent in western China during Tang and Yuan dynasties), other of them converted from various other religions(specially from Nestorianism and Judaism not only Buddhism.)

4,Almost all Hui muslims belong to "Gedim"group——very traditional and faithful to the school of the Great Imam Hanafi. They are orthodox Sunni,not a kind of Syncretism or mixed religion.
Again, this is not completely correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people
History

The Hui Chinese have diverse origins. Some in the southeast coast are descended from Arab and Persian Muslim traders who settled in China and gradually intermarried and assimilated the surrounding population, keeping only their distinctive religion. A totally different explanation is available for the Mandarin Chinese-speaking Yunnan and Northern Huis, whose ethnogenesis might be a result of the convergence of large number of Mongol, Turkic, Iranian or other Central Asian settlers in these regions who formed the dominant stratum in the Mongol-founded Yuan Dynasty. However, even Cantonese Muslims, of the southeastern coast, typically resemble northern Asians much more so than their typical Cantonese neighbours.

It was documented that a proportion of these nomad or military ethnic groups were originally Nestorian Christians many of whom later converted to Islam, while under the sinicizing pressures of the Ming and Qing states.

This explains the ethnonym "Hui," in close affinity with that of "Uyghur," albeit Sinicized and contradistinctive from "Uyghur" in usage. The ethnonym "Hui," though for a long time used as an umbrella term (at least since Qing) to designate Muslim Chinese speakers everywhere and Muslims in general (for example, a Qing Chinese might describe a Uyghur as a "Chantou" who practiced the "Hui" religion), was not used in the Southeast as much as "Qīngzhēn", a term still in common use today, especially for Muslim (Hui) eating establishments and for mosques (qīngzhēn sì in Mandarin).

Southeastern Muslims also have a much longer tradition of synthesizing Confucian teachings with the Sharia and Qur'anic teachings, and were reported to have been contributing to the Confucian officialdom since the Tang period. Among the Northern Hui, on the other hand, there are strong influences of Central Asian Sufi schools such as Kubrawiyya, Qadiriyya, Naqshbandiyya (Khufiyya and Jahriyya) etc. mostly of the Hanafi Madhhab (whereas among the Southeastern communities the Shafi'i Madhhab is more of the norm). Before the "Ihwani" movement, a Chinese variant of the Salafi movement, Northern Hui Sufis were very fond of synthesizing Taoist teachings and martial arts practices with Sufi philosophy.

In early modern times, villages in Northern Chinese Hui areas still bore labels like "Blue-cap Huihui," "Black-cap Huihui," and "White-cap Huihui," betraying their possible Christian, Judaic and Muslim origins, even though the religious practices among North China Hui by then were by and large Islamic. Hui is also used as a catch-all grouping for Islamic Chinese who are not classified under another ethnic group.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And

http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/EthnicGroups/136917.htm

History

The name Hui is an abbreviation for "Huihui," which first appeared in the literature of the Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127). It referred to the Huihe people (the Ouigurs) who lived in Anxi in the present-day Xinjiang and its vicinity since the Tang Dynasty (618-907). They were actually forerunners of the present-day Uygurs, who are totally different from today's Huis or Huihuis.
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All of this, btw, simply illustrates my assertion about incense in Traditional Islam.
 
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2009, 04:51:25 PM »

Southeastern Muslims also have a much longer tradition of synthesizing Confucian teachings with the Sharia and Qur'anic teachings, and were reported to have been contributing to the Confucian officialdom since the Tang period. Among the Northern Hui, on the other hand, there are strong influences of Central Asian Sufi schools such as Kubrawiyya, Qadiriyya, Naqshbandiyya (Khufiyya and Jahriyya) etc. mostly of the Hanafi Madhhab (whereas among the Southeastern communities the Shafi'i Madhhab is more of the norm). Before the "Ihwani" movement, a Chinese variant of the Salafi movement, Northern Hui Sufis were very fond of synthesizing Taoist teachings and martial arts practices with Sufi philosophy.

Such saying is more academical than religious,in fact Wahabiya use such viewpoint against traditional muslims in China(exactly like protestants do to us orthodox: the veneration of  Theotokos came from pagan worship of Isis ...blahblahblah

In such view,every single traditional chinese Buddhist/muslim/christian is sythesized. The point of them is:In order to be a member of a "foreign religion" you should deny your culture and nation and people ——first to be a "non-chinese" then a Buddhist/muslim/christian——such fanatism and racism has no place in trational teaching of those three religions.

For example,as a chinese ,I prostrate before the portrait or tomb or even name(神主)of Confucius ,and offer trational offering before them(including incense).Such practise made us sythesists or less orthodox?
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« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2009, 04:57:30 PM »

I was Muslim for a while, and attended a Deobandi- and Pakistani-dominated mosque (with many members of Tablighi Jama`at, and a healthy sprinkling of Wahhabi Arabs). No, the mosque didn't smell, and yes, we used incense. Before entering a mosque, you're supposed to do wudhu, which involves washing the feet. Incense was frequently burned between services (mostly `oud, though I did occasionally see stick incense laying around), both at my usual mosque and at a more Wahhabi-dominated mosque that I occasionally attended. Perfume oil was also frequently passed around, both while waiting for salat to begin, and during the khutba (sermon) at Friday prayers.
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« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2009, 05:25:52 PM »



For example,as a chinese ,I prostrate before the portrait or tomb or even name(神主)of Confucius ,and offer trational offering before them(including incense).Such practise made us sythesists or less orthodox?

Forgive me if I sounded judgmental towards you as a Chinese person.  As an Orthodox Christian myself, I would hesitate to prostrate before a non-Orthodox person's tomb, but I leave that between you and your priest.  Again, forgive me for coming off as judgmental towards you or any Chinese person.
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« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2009, 05:40:39 PM »


The point of them is:In order to be a member of a "foreign religion" you should deny your culture and nation and people ——first to be a "non-chinese" then a Buddhist/muslim/christian——such fanatism and racism has no place in trational teaching of those three religions.

I believe our Orthodoxy should come first with our ethnicity an afterthought.  I'm proud of my Celtic heritage, just as you're proud of being Chinese; but if we put our ethnicity first, we can run into trouble with pride (and believe me- I run into this kind of trouble all the time as my name shows Wink).  The Apostle Saint Paul frequently made this point by saying, "There is neither Greek nor Jew."  Meaning, I believe, you cannot stop being a certain ethnicity, but it doesn't matter anymore.
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« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2009, 05:48:16 PM »

I was Muslim for a while, and attended a Deobandi- and Pakistani-dominated mosque (with many members of Tablighi Jama`at, and a healthy sprinkling of Wahhabi Arabs). No, the mosque didn't smell, and yes, we used incense. Before entering a mosque, you're supposed to do wudhu, which involves washing the feet. Incense was frequently burned between services (mostly `oud, though I did occasionally see stick incense laying around), both at my usual mosque and at a more Wahhabi-dominated mosque that I occasionally attended. Perfume oil was also frequently passed around, both while waiting for salat to begin, and during the khutba (sermon) at Friday prayers.

 I certainly cannot deny your experiences, but when a few of us held the Friday Prayers in our apartment for a year, I said to the very diverse group, "Come to me with your traditions and understanding of how we're supposed to be conducting ourselves."  The Pakistani's wanted to do this and that, the Indonesians wanted to have their traditions; same with the Sa'udis, the Moroccans, the Omani's, the Egyptians, the Sudanese, the Indians and Bangledeshi's, the Turks and Bosnian's and so on.  I just find it hard to believe that if incense is so prevalent in Islam, why did I never see or hear of it in 10 years?  Never-the-less, I guess I'm wrong...  Embarrassed
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« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2009, 09:05:11 AM »

Quote
I certainly cannot deny your experiences, but when a few of us held the Friday Prayers in our apartment for a year, I said to the very diverse group, "Come to me with your traditions and understanding of how we're supposed to be conducting ourselves."  The Pakistani's wanted to do this and that, the Indonesians wanted to have their traditions; same with the Sa'udis, the Moroccans, the Omani's, the Egyptians, the Sudanese, the Indians and Bangledeshi's, the Turks and Bosnian's and so on.  I just find it hard to believe that if incense is so prevalent in Islam, why did I never see or hear of it in 10 years?  Never-the-less, I guess I'm wrong...

I think the reason you never saw it is because, unlike in Orthodoxy, the incense doesn't serve any religious purpose, other than conforming to the sunnah. It's used purely to create a sweet scent in the mosque before prayers, which is why it was only burned before salat -- it's equivalent to a host burning incense before his guests arrive. If you had people visiting you to perform Friday salat, there would be no reason for them to bring incense to burn (and in fact it would be vaguely insulting) -- you're the host, so it's presumed that you know best whether your apartment needs freshening or not.
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