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Author Topic: JEWISH TRADITIONS IN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH  (Read 14849 times) Average Rating: 0
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Heorhij
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« Reply #135 on: June 23, 2009, 03:00:22 PM »

Okay. first of all you have badly  miss represented my postions.

No. You are continuously lumping together the Jewish ethnicity and the Jewish religion and deny that, for example, Marx was a Jew, because his parents baptized him. That's an ultimate nonsense. A Jewish person remains a Jewish person - the Jewish ethnicity cannot be changed by baptism. Boris Pasternak was a Jew (and a great Russian poet), even though he was a devout Orthodox.

If you care to continue I can as well.

No Marc, not really. I am afraid that talking with you about Jews has as much sense as talking with Orthodoc or Ilalmisry about Ukrainian nationalism. We are just on different planets in this regard, or in different galaxies, so there is no point in any discussion.

Secondly, there have been some very harsh anti-semitic remarks in this and related threads.

Yes there were, and some people were even banned for making these remarks. But saying that Jews dominated in all governmental offices of the USSR, and especially in the repressive secret police, between 1917 and ~1938-38, is not a "harsh antisemitic remark" in my book - it is just a reflection of the truth. But in your book, I am afraid, it WILL be a "harsh anti-semitic remark." You will say that they were not Jews but "atheists." In this regard, one very obnoxious Russian populist-politician whose name is Vladimir Vol'fovich Zhirinovskiy ("Vol'fovich" is a patronym indicating that his father's name was Volf or Wolf, a Jewish name), when asked, who were his parents, said, "my mother was a Russian and my father was a lawyer!" Smiley


I would be careful which dogs you lay down with... If standing up to patently false statements, bigotry and ignorance is "Political Correctness"
then so be it.

PC IS patently false statements, bigotry and ignorance .
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« Reply #136 on: June 23, 2009, 08:53:03 PM »

No. You are continuously lumping together the Jewish ethnicity and the Jewish religion and deny that, for example, Marx was a Jew, because his parents baptized him. That's an ultimate nonsense. A Jewish person remains a Jewish person - the Jewish ethnicity cannot be changed by baptism. Boris Pasternak was a Jew (and a great Russian poet), even though he was a devout Orthodox.



Say what??

I never made that claim at any time in any place.. Geez.. Where did I deny Marx was a Jew and when in the world did I ever mention he was Baptised.. That would be news to me BTW.... I never heard he was Baptised and frankly doubt it very much.

Really..provide quotes.. You have either confused me with someone else or you have several different posts all muddled up in your head.

No Marc, not really. I am afraid that talking with you about Jews has as much sense as talking with Orthodoc or Ilalmisry about Ukrainian nationalism. We are just on different planets in this regard, or in different galaxies, so there is no point in any discussion.


Okay... If you say so but I am not certain you have been following the arguments very well.



Secondly, there have been some very harsh anti-semitic remarks in this and related threads.


Yes there were, and some people were even banned for making these remarks. But saying that Jews dominated in all governmental offices of the USSR, and especially in the repressive secret police, between 1917 and ~1938-38, is not a "harsh antisemitic remark" in my book - it is just a reflection of the truth. But in your book, I am afraid, it WILL be a "harsh anti-semitic remark." You will say that they were not Jews but "atheists." In this regard, one very obnoxious Russian populist-politician whose name is Vladimir Vol'fovich Zhirinovskiy ("Vol'fovich" is a patronym indicating that his father's name was Volf or Wolf, a Jewish name), when asked, who were his parents, said, "my mother was a Russian and my father was a lawyer!" Smiley



Once again... What's your point? What are you implying ?.. Do you seriously think the Russian Revolution is some sort of Jewish Conspiracy?..Please explain yourself. Thanks

Second, the Russian Revolution was dominated by Russians who were nearly to the Man Baptised Orthodox. Not a single Soviet Dictator was a Jew. The Gulag was filled with Jews. Trotsky, the one top leader who was Jewish was murdered by Stalin early on. Jews were particularly discriminated against, Synagogues closed, Jewish education was banned..The bulk of the Jewish population eventually fled the country once international pressure was brought to bare long enough...

Sorry if you think this is "gobalty gook" or somehow incomprehensible but no legitimate historian thinks the Russian Revolution was some sort of Jewish conspiracy. You must travel to  the out-edges of the internet to find such tripe.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 09:10:31 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #137 on: June 23, 2009, 09:47:42 PM »

I think so many of our problems would be removed if we could only somehow put ourselves in each other's shoes. If the Orthodox Christian could try to imagine himself as born into a Jewish, or Catholic, or Muslim family and if these also could try to imagine themselves in a different situation. In the end, we are all human beings with similar feelings and experiences. Why do we allow religion or race to cause so many problems?

Rosehip, I am not interested in this thread anymore exactly because it degraded into me or someone else allegedly being "mad at the Jews," while I am most definitely not.

I just mentioned in passing that the PC gobblledeegook Marc is repeating here is just that, goblledeegook (like, Trotsky, poor little darling, was the only opporessed Jew from the Lenin's Old Bolshevik cohort who was murdered by this vicious Orthodox Christian Stalin, the highjacker of the Great October Socialist Revolution etc.).

Be well, guys.
 


Yeah I hate PC too.

Another evil invention by the jews, along with Socialism, Democracy and Judeo-Bolshevic Communism and Capitalism.
 We have had to deal with your racist posts before, and despite our past warnings you do not learn.

You're banned.

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« Reply #138 on: June 23, 2009, 10:11:11 PM »

What happened in the 20th Century and what continues to happen even now is the natural culmination of humanism. The Wiki definition will do for a start: "Humanism is a broad category of ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appealing to universal human qualities, particularly rationality, without resorting to the supernatural or alleged divine authority from religious texts."

The problem here is what Karl Marx succumbed to, the two leaps of faith that are the basis of Marxism: (1) Species/ideal man exists, and (2) man can perfect mankind. Professor Kuehnelt-Leddihn's taxonomy of the political arena as two halves of one sphere is similar: on one side, Leftism that is based on the two leaps of faith above, while on the other side, Rightism that posits that God's help is needed.

One can readily see that from the above perspective there is not much of difference between Marxists, communists, socialists, modern day liberals, bolsheviks, Maoists, Nazis, fascists, and the like. In each case, men tried to shape their destiny and/or alleviate their suffering, all on their own. You will notice that each one of the Leftisms either downgraded the importance of religion, suppressed communities of faith, or invented their own quasi-religion. It did not matter what kind of background these people had. Once they struck on their own, without God, they were easy prey to their worst instincts and to Satan.

I forget who said it but the saying was that evil abhorred a vacuum and rushed to where God did not dwell. Not one nationality and religion was spared the mad descent into the dark side of humanism. There is plenty of blame and shame to go around, as well as lots of lessons learned. We will do well to concentrate on the latter and eschew poisonous posters like Provoslav09/IPC and his ilk.
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« Reply #139 on: June 23, 2009, 10:26:45 PM »


What's happening today is the continuation of the return of paganism, with it's exacerbated humanism, hedonism, materialism, legalism, and other unchristian "isms".

It is wrong to blame all this in specific groups only, it's not the jews, it's not the freemasons, it's not the liberals, it's not the democracy, it's not the moslems, ... it is the great apostacy of humanity, the great rebellion of mankind against God, that is making this return of paganism possible.



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« Reply #140 on: June 24, 2009, 07:40:11 AM »


What's happening today is the continuation of the return of paganism, with it's exacerbated humanism, hedonism, materialism, legalism, and other unchristian "isms".

It is wrong to blame all this in specific groups only, it's not the jews, it's not the freemasons, it's not the liberals, it's not the democracy, it's not the moslems, ... it is the great apostacy of humanity, the great rebellion of mankind against God, that is making this return of paganism possible.





Yes. Fully agree.
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« Reply #141 on: June 24, 2009, 08:10:36 AM »

Russian Revolution was dominated by Russians who were nearly to the Man Baptised Orthodox.

Like Sverdlov, Zinoviev (Apfelbaum), Kamenev (Rosenfeld), Steklov (Nahamkes), Parvus (Gelfand), Yaroslavsky (Gubelman), Litvinov (Wallach), Larin (Lurie), Kaganovich, Uritsky...

Not a single Soviet Dictator was a Jew.

Ethnic-wise, Lenin was partially Jewish. His closest associates (see above) were almost all Jews. The Petrograd City Soviet was chaired by Trotsky. The Red Army was actually created and dictatorially led by Trotsky, who made his personal handpicked trusted men (all Jews) the chairmen of the "Politotdels" - small governing bodies with absolute powers over field commanders of the army and navy. The dreaded CheKa (secret police) was supervised by Felix Dzerzhinsky (a Pole), and its Petrograd branch was supervised by Moisey Uritsky. Dzerzhinsky's first deputy, who became all-powerful even when Dzerzhinsky was still alive, was Genrikh Yagoda (Yeguda). People's Comissariates of trade, finance, heavy and light industry, and other were either chaired by Jews, or chaired by non-Jews whose first deputies were Jews (you can find the full list of names in the book by Andrey Dikiy that IPC mentioned, there is a link to its full text in one of his posts). So, to deny that there was an exceptionally strong Jewish presence in the top eshelon of power in the early years of the USSR (up until ~1938-39, when Stalin decided to make a strategic deal with Hitler) is plain silly if not insane. 

The Gulag was filled with Jews.

But look at the names of founders and chief supervisors of Gulag. They were ALL Jewish - Yagoda, Berman, Frinovskiy and other.

Trotsky, the one top leader who was Jewish was murdered by Stalin early on.

Trotsky had a misfortune to imagine himself the sole heir of Lenin in 1922 (when Lenin became a dyfunctional paralytic), which could not satisfy other two all-powerful Jews - Zinoviev (Apfelbaum), who was the Chairman of the Komintern (technically number one Communist of the world), and Kamenev (Rosenfeld), Trotsky's brother-in-law, the chairman of the VSNKh (the governing body that presided over the Soviet industry), and the chairman of the city of Moscow Communist Party branch. Zinoviev and Kamenev started a gigantic campaign of maligning Trotsky, blaming him in all failures of the day. On the annual Communist Party conventions of 1923, 1924, and 1925 they spread the ideological paradigm that they, and also Stalin (who was then a merely technical figure, the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party - that post became significant only many years after) are representing the "party line" and Comrade Trotsky is an ambitious dreamer who represents an "opposition." In November 1927, being totally cornered by the "triumvirate" of Zinoviev, Kamenev and Stalin and feeling frustrated, Trotsky organized a street rally, which was dispersed by the police. This was used as a case to announce him an "enemy of the people" and to deport him from the USSR. He was killed by Ramon Mercader, a secret agent of Stalin's secret police, in 1940.

Jews were particularly discriminated against, Synagogues closed, Jewish education was banned.

No more synagogues were closed than any other houses of worship. As for discrimination, the VAST MAJORITY of the Jewish population in the USSR in the 1920-s - 1930-s was SECULAR. They could care less about "closing of synagogues."

The bulk of the Jewish population eventually fled the country once international pressure was brought to bare long enough...

Yes. But not to Israel - only a minor part of the Jewish emigrants of the 1970-s chose Israel. The majority went to the USA and lives in this country as absolutely secular people, whom naive Americans call "Russians." Smiley

Sorry if you think this is "gobalty gook" or somehow incomprehensible but no legitimate historian thinks the Russian Revolution was some sort of Jewish conspiracy. You must travel to  the out-edges of the internet to find such tripe.

No, I do not think that the revolt of 1917 was a Jewish conspiracy. But I do think that Jews as a group most definitely took advantage of being a "new aristocracy" in the years between 1917 and 1938-39. That's just impossible to deny.
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« Reply #142 on: June 24, 2009, 10:16:09 AM »

I agree that "there was an exceptionally strong Jewish presence in the top echelon of power in the early years of the USSR."

I also agree that "the Russian Revolution was dominated by Russians who were nearly to the Man Baptised Orthodox."

There really is not deeper meaning to either statement; they should be taken as historical facts with no further implications. It can thus be stated confidently that the Russian Revolution was conducted by Russians of many ethnic backgrounds. Anything else is ultimately meaningless.

However, if you start analyzing why God fearing Russians (Orthodox, Jew or Muslim) became Godless communists, who committed all kinds of monstrosities against God and humanity, you may find different motivations. In addition to the Leftism that was infecting all, I think that the primary motivations initially were idealistic:

For the Jews: to stop the rampant anti-semitism of the non-Jewish Orthodox folks (that is to alleviate the cruelties inflicted on Jews by the supposed Christian authorities and population.

For the Muslims: to reverse their domination by the Christians.

For the Orthodox Russians/etc..: to reform a very backward and hypocritical society.

I must say that soon thereafter (during the Civil War) the idealism of the Bolsheviks turned into very materialistic considerations that eventually resulted in the CPSU becoming nothing more than a Mafia-equivalent organization.
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« Reply #143 on: June 24, 2009, 11:48:56 AM »

I am following this thread because it is interesting to me personally-not because I wish to be antagonistic in any way. Second Chance, I appreciated and agreed with your above post. I think it is very balanced.

What I would humbly like to know is why do Russians always have to bring up the fact of someone's Jewish background, even if that person has become a Christian? I hear it all the time at my church. People's voices drop to a conspiratorial level and mutter "He's Jewish" as if the person has rabies, or leprosy. In my mind, Russian Jews are just as Russian as Russian Orthodox people.

Why is it that when I lived in Kyiv, and folks would talk about people who were born in Ukraine to, say, an African man and a Ukrainian woman,they would ALWAYS say most emphatically that the child of such a union is "Ukrainian". But if a person whose ancestors have lived in the same country for generations, but is Jewish, there's always this attitude that the person is "Jewish", but not fully Ukrainian or Russian, or whatever.

Another thought I've mulled over is the fact that many of the peasantry just did not have the opportunity to receive a good education under Tsarist rule. This severely handicapped the Orthodox peasantry, and kept them in a state of perpetual darkness and ignorance.The Jewish folks, who lived beyond the pale, or in their own settlements, seem to have had more freedom in that they could ensure that their children received a good education. I wonder if events wounldn't have turned out differently had the peasantry been allowed excellent educational opportunties.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I am merely trying to understand! I do not want to offend anyone.
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« Reply #144 on: June 24, 2009, 12:37:42 PM »


Like Sverdlov, Zinoviev (Apfelbaum), Kamenev (Rosenfeld), Steklov (Nahamkes), Parvus (Gelfand), Yaroslavsky (Gubelman), Litvinov (Wallach), Larin (Lurie), Kaganovich, Uritsky...


What?Huh I recognize like one name on that list. There have already  been false claims that Lenin was  a Jew ( which I see you repeat below) and the Engles was a Jew ( he was not)..etc etc.

Please answer the question I keep asking. What is your point? Are you implying some sort of secret cabal of Jews that ran the Russian Revolution? What..is ... your... point  ? Thanks again.

Many Jews sided with the Revolution. Jew's who become communists are by definition Atheists. Their hatred of Judaism is not surpassed by the most hatefilled antisemitic.

The Russian Revolution was not Jewish Revolt. Do you think it was? It was an uprising of the Russian people against autocracy and a terribly broken down  and out dated Feudal system. There was nothing "Jewish" about that. Jews participated, Vastly more people born Orthodox participated. 



Ethnic-wise, Lenin was partially Jewish. His closest associates (see above) were almost all Jews. The Petrograd City Soviet was chaired by Trotsky. The Red Army was actually created and dictatorially led by Trotsky, who made his personal handpicked trusted men (all Jews) the chairmen of the "Politotdels" - small governing bodies with absolute powers over field commanders of the army and navy. The dreaded CheKa (secret police) was supervised by Felix Dzerzhinsky (a Pole), and its Petrograd branch was supervised by Moisey Uritsky. Dzerzhinsky's first deputy, who became all-powerful even when Dzerzhinsky was still alive, was Genrikh Yagoda (Yeguda). People's Comissariates of trade, finance, heavy and light industry, and other were either chaired by Jews, or chaired by non-Jews whose first deputies were Jews (you can find the full list of names in the book by Andrey Dikiy that IPC mentioned, there is a link to its full text in one of his posts). So, to deny that there was an exceptionally strong Jewish presence in the top eshelon of power in the early years of the USSR (up until ~1938-39, when Stalin decided to make a strategic deal with Hitler) is plain silly if not insane. 



I think you must be getting your information from some sort of antisemtic tract. I personally knew several people who lived with Trotsky in Mexico. I did research for his personal bodyguard to help him prove that he was not in league with Stalin's secret police.
You don't know what you are talking about and your false claim that Lenin was a Jew is evidence number one. Lenin's grandfather  was Jewish. No one else. Not his parents, not him. A more classically looking Tarter face would be hard to find.


Antisemites would like people to think it was an Evil Jewish cabal that caused and promulgated the Russian Revolution. This insulates them from facing up the failures of the Czar and somehow puts the eventual terror into a paradigm that fits their conspiratorial  World View. The real terror of the Revolution was the work of Joseph Stalin. The terror the Church endured was the work of Joseph Stalin. Joseph Stalin was as anti-semetic as any of the posters we have seen in these threads....which is saying alot  Wink





snip...

Here is good book for you to read so you can catch up on the facts. "Revolution Betrayed" by Leon Trotsky

Jews were particularly discriminated against, Synagogues closed, Jewish education was banned.

No more synagogues were closed than any other houses of worship. As for discrimination, the VAST MAJORITY of the Jewish population in the USSR in the 1920-s - 1930-s was SECULAR. They could care less about "closing of synagogues."


You apparently have no idea about the level of discrimination against Jews in Russian Society.

If they didn't ("really") care that their religion was brutally suppressed and that they were particularly discriminated against, they would have stayed. As you may recall, much of Soviet Jewry emigrated after years of International pressure.


Yes. But not to Israel - only a minor part of the Jewish emigrants of the 1970-s chose Israel. The majority went to the USA and lives in this country as absolutely secular people, whom naive Americans call "Russians." Smiley


And your point is?

No, I do not think that the revolt of 1917 was a Jewish conspiracy. But I do think that Jews as a group most definitely took advantage of being a "new aristocracy" in the years between 1917 and 1938-39. That's just impossible to deny.


That is a patently anti-smetic statement . Many people who were oppressed minorities put their hope in the Revolution. Many people who were on the bottom found themselves on top.

I am sure that they did enjoy not being beat up or lynched every Easter....Thank you for finally admitting that the Revolution was not a Jewish conspiracy
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 12:38:07 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #145 on: June 24, 2009, 12:47:47 PM »

It is important to keep in mind that in the Russian Revolution, the minority of Russians used in the revolutionary activities played a secondary role, and were carefully chosen according to what Marx and Engels describe as Lumpenproletariat.

Lumpenproletariat are the refuse of all classes, outcasts the worst sort of people, willing to do anything they can for their personal benefit, who have no ethics, values and conscience.

Victor Hugo described this kind of people in his book "Les Miserables".

The lumpenproletariat insterts itself in society at all levels. Napoleon and Krushev are two examples of lumpenproletariat at the service of revolutionaries, who inserted themselves in the highest levels of the socio-political sphere. The revolutionaries know the lumpenproletariat does not have the slightest interest to participate in the revolution, but they'll do all they can for personal gain.

Actually one of the goals of the Russian revolution is the lumpenproletariatization russian narod, what some have labelled as "the new soviet man".

Thinking they can outsmart the system, by lies, evil, corruption, and other ungodly means to get personal benefit, people only destroy their dusha, and speed up the lumpenproletariatization process, and before they know it, they are professionals too!

A priest told me about the martyrdom of a group of christians who refused to sign their new identity documents, in which they pledged loyalty to the authorities. He told me "if all russians displayed this kind of loyalty to God, Holy Russia wouldn't have become like Kitezhgrad and it would shine for the amazement of the world even today, as it did in dororevutionary times."




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« Reply #146 on: June 24, 2009, 12:57:13 PM »

I am following this thread because it is interesting to me personally-not because I wish to be antagonistic in any way. Second Chance, I appreciated and agreed with your above post. I think it is very balanced.

What I would humbly like to know is why do Russians always have to bring up the fact of someone's Jewish background, even if that person has become a Christian? I hear it all the time at my church. People's voices drop to a conspiratorial level and mutter "He's Jewish" as if the person has rabies, or leprosy. In my mind, Russian Jews are just as Russian as Russian Orthodox people.

I really don't know. It has always been a convention in my home country to see Jewishness as an ethnicity and not as a religious faith. It's not always been the case; during the Khmelnyts'kyj uprising of 1648, for example, the Cossacks usually killed Jews, but only if the latter refused to be baptised; if the Jews said that they wanted to be baptised, they were spared, and from the moment of their baptism on were considered Christians. But in those times people generally did not know the concept of ethnicity or nationality; if some Ivan Sydorenko in a Ukrainian village stopped attending his Orthodox church and began to attent a Polish "Kostyol," his fellow villagers would not hesitate to say that this guy Sydorenko is now POLISH! In more modern times though, the Jewish ethnicity was recognized as something un-mutable.

Maybe a couple of things should be mentioned. First, in Ukraine, as well as in Russia, Jews themselves have always identified themselves as Jews, completely regardless of their religious faith. They did not quite mix with non-Jews. Mixed marriages were not common; usually Jewish youths married Jewish girls. Sometimes Jewish girls married non-Jewish boys, but that, according to Jewish customs, was not a big deal because children of these marriages were always considered by Jews to be Jewish. Jewishness came from the maternal, not from the paternal side. But if a Jewish boy married what Jews called a "shiksa," a Gentile girl, that was a terrible tragedy for this boy's parents, because that would mean the end of the Jewish line.

In the Jewish families I knew, it was not a custom to talk about anything particularly Jewish. But if I, growing up, would come to one of such families, close friends of my parents, and say - I am just fantasizing, - "Uncle Misha, you are not a Jew, you are a Ukrainian" - Uncle Misha would most definitely call my parents and say that something must be urgently done because their son has gone mad. I mean, we all knew who was Jewish, and it was immutable, and it was like that BECAUSE THE JEWS themselves wanted it to be like that. No Jewish family would give up their Jewishness, ever.

Secondly, we generally were all secular, no one was supposed to have any "religion" and no one really had it, at least in cities.

Another thought I've mulled over is the fact that many of the peasantry just did not have the opportunity to receive a good education under Tsarist rule. This severely handicapped the Orthodox peasantry, and kept them in a state of perpetual darkness and ignorance.The Jewish folks, who lived beyond the pale, or in their own settlements, seem to have had more freedom in that they could ensure that their children received a good education. I wonder if events wounldn't have turned out differently had the peasantry been allowed excellent educational opportunties.

Yes, there is something to it... Before 1917, Jews could not be landowners (although there were exceptions - Trotsky's father, for example, owned a lot of land). They were usually merchants or craftsmen. They were not as attached to their places of birth as the land-working Gentile peasants were. So, for very many Jewish children, especially boys (and to some extent girls as well), education was seen as a golden opportunity to break loose off their tiny, backward, somnolent "schtettel" and to move to a bigger city, where they would be owners of a pharmacy, or dentists, or librarians, etc. And after 1917, universities became wide open for the Jewish youth. In the 1920-s, perhaps more Jewish young men and women studied in Soviet universities than representatives of any other ethnicity. In those years, university admissions were based on the "class principle"; so, if an aspiring student's parents owned even a tiny piece of land, that young man or girl would likely not be admitted because he or she would be considered a representative of the "exploitators classes." The Jewish youth had huge advantages in this regard.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I am merely trying to understand! I do not want to offend anyone.

Oh no, of course not! Thank you for your questions!
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« Reply #147 on: June 24, 2009, 01:11:45 PM »

And thank  you, Heorhij, for answering so kindly!  My intentions are not to hurt or upset, but to know the truth.

I've often thought of these things you mention too. In trying to put the pieces together, I can well imagine the Jews (at least observant ones) with all their dietary laws and exclusive society as appearing standoffish and aloof to the average Slavic peasant. On their part, I cannot see the average Slavic peasant as trying very hard to understand Judaism as a religion and culture.

Having said that, I believe there was indeed a decent amount of intermarriage going on-some of the most beautiful people in general are mixtures of different peoples, and the sometimes striking beauty found amongst Russian Jews I believe may be a result of this intermarriage.

And to Marc, Heorhij is right in his claim that all those gentlemen who composed the original core group of Soviet leaders were indeed of Jewish ancestory-their surnames are all Jewish  beyond any doubt.
Btw, I was investigating these men and found some really interesting things. Sverdlovsk, was, in my opinion, really cute!! Wink
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« Reply #148 on: June 24, 2009, 01:23:19 PM »

And thank  you, Heorhij, for answering so kindly!  My intentions are not to hurt or upset, but to know the truth.

Thank you, dear sister.

Btw, I was investigating these men and found some really interesting things. Sverdlovsk, was, in my opinion, really cute!! Wink

Do you mean the man called Yakov Sverdlov, or the city of Sverdlovsk (Yekaterinburg)?

Sverdlov was, indeed, a rather handsome man. He had a unique photographic memory, was a genius of record-keeping, and because of that Lenin made him the chairman of the VTsIK - the executive body that handled various appointments. Sverdlov was exceptional in remembering names, dates, positions, etc. But he was a terrible fanatic, a true bastard without any pity to people. For example, he personally supervised the genocide of the Don Cossacks in 1918-19, when about a million of them were slaughtered, with women and children.

Sverdlov died young (perhaps he had tuberculosis), but some of his relatives later became very prominent Soviet scientists (Alexander Zil'ber, Boris Brondz), and fiction writers (Veniamin Kaverin).
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« Reply #149 on: June 24, 2009, 01:37:07 PM »

Yes, sorry, I meant Sverdlov (real name: Yankel Solomon). Interesting, he seems to have succumbed to flu or typhus at only age 33 (so young!). But some things I've read say he could be a very nice, kind, thoughtful person with the ability to read a person's inner feelings and emotions...It always makes me sad to hear of the evil things people do... Angry So sad because he had this intelligent, charming face... Sad
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« Reply #150 on: June 24, 2009, 04:37:02 PM »

It is important to keep in mind that in the Russian Revolution, the minority of Russians used in the revolutionary activities played a secondary role, and were carefully chosen according to what Marx and Engels describe as Lumpenproletariat.

Lumpenproletariat are the refuse of all classes, outcasts the worst sort of people, willing to do anything they can for their personal benefit, who have no ethics, values and conscience.

Victor Hugo described this kind of people in his book "Les Miserables".

The lumpenproletariat insterts itself in society at all levels. Napoleon and Krushev are two examples of lumpenproletariat at the service of revolutionaries, who inserted themselves in the highest levels of the socio-political sphere. The revolutionaries know the lumpenproletariat does not have the slightest interest to participate in the revolution, but they'll do all they can for personal gain.

Actually one of the goals of the Russian revolution is the lumpenproletariatization russian narod, what some have labelled as "the new soviet man".

Thinking they can outsmart the system, by lies, evil, corruption, and other ungodly means to get personal benefit, people only destroy their dusha, and speed up the lumpenproletariatization process, and before they know it, they are professionals too!

A priest told me about the martyrdom of a group of christians who refused to sign their new identity documents, in which they pledged loyalty to the authorities. He told me "if all russians displayed this kind of loyalty to God, Holy Russia wouldn't have become like Kitezhgrad and it would shine for the amazement of the world even today, as it did in dororevutionary times."


Hmmmmm..OK..That's a pretty good post. I would add though that there was hardly any Prolotarit Class in Russia at the time of the Revolution.. That is one reason ( among many) why it was doomed to failure. But the Revolution was not carried out by the Lumpen alone. It was carried out by soldiers and sailors and city folk mostly with the support of the small middle class which then tried to form a bourgeois Parliament..which quickly failed. The  more Lumpen elements of society did gain a toe hold as you mentioned but a bit later. Most of the early Revolutionaries and Democrats were done away with by Stalin.   

For example, the Kronstadt Sailors were early supporters of the Revolution. But by the time they were suppressed
( Killed) by Trotsky, they were not the same men at all.
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« Reply #151 on: June 24, 2009, 06:26:02 PM »

And to Marc, Heorhij is right in his claim that all those gentlemen who composed the original core group of Soviet leaders were indeed of Jewish ancestory-their surnames are all Jewish  beyond any doubt.
Btw, I was investigating these men and found some really interesting things. Sverdlovsk, was, in my opinion, really cute!! 
 


Here is a link to a complete list of the Leadership of the Soviet Union.. It takes some googleing around but I think you will find that by a large margin the leaders of the Soviet Union were not Jews... Most importantly, the two leaders most central to the Bolshevik Revolution and then later the Great Terror, Lenin and Stalin were not Jews.


http://www.crawfordsworld.com/rob/apcg/Russia/unit4Russia-CCleaders.htm


But let's take note that many early Revolutionaries were Jews, Trotsky being the most influencial.. What meaning to you glean from that?   
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« Reply #152 on: June 24, 2009, 06:57:46 PM »

Yes, sorry, I meant Sverdlov (real name: Yankel Solomon). Interesting, he seems to have succumbed to flu or typhus at only age 33 (so young!). But some things I've read say he could be a very nice, kind, thoughtful person with the ability to read a person's inner feelings and emotions...It always makes me sad to hear of the evil things people do... Angry So sad because he had this intelligent, charming face... Sad

Here's this face:

http://www.hrono.info/biograf/sverdlov.html

And this is Zinov'jev (Apfel'baum, ak.a. Radomysl's'ky):

http://www.hrono.info/biograf/zinovev.html

Kamenev (Rosenfeld):

http://www.hrono.info/biograf/kamenev.html

Kaganovich (BTW, survived them all - died in 1991, being 98 years old):

http://www.hrono.info/biograf/kaganov.html

Sokol'nikov (Girsh Yankelevich Brilliant, presided over the Soviet banking system):

http://www.hrono.info/biograf/sokolnikov.html

Yaroslavsky (Gubel'man; the head of the League of Militant Atheists):

http://www.hrono.info/biograf/yaroslavski.html

Trotsky (Bronshtein):

http://www.hrono.info/biograf/trotski.html

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« Reply #153 on: June 24, 2009, 07:18:47 PM »

Thank you for all these links, Heorhij! I love to be able to connect faces to these men. The top, right-hand photo is my favourite one of Sverdlov/Solomon, though-I think he looks sooo handsome here:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Sverdlov

 Alas, it sounds like he had a rather cold, icy personality. Sad But can you imagine how YOUNG he actually was to be in such a position of power?? Shocked The man was only 33 when he died!! It's hard to believe!
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« Reply #154 on: June 24, 2009, 08:29:34 PM »

Ethnic-wise, Lenin was partially Jewish.

You don't know what you are talking about and your false claim that Lenin was a Jew is evidence number one. Lenin's grandfather  was Jewish. No one else. Not his parents, not him. A more classically looking Tarter face would be hard to find.

Okay.  Speaking as one who has no dog in this fight, I just have to point something out.  Heorhij said earlier that Lenin was partially Jewish by ethnicity.  Marc1152 then admitted that Lenin's grandfather was a Jew.  Doesn't this then mean that Lenin was ethnically 25% Jewish, thus making Heorhij correct?  After all, Lenin had to have inherited 1/4 of his genetic code from his grandfather.
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« Reply #155 on: June 24, 2009, 09:09:43 PM »

Ethnic-wise, Lenin was partially Jewish.

You don't know what you are talking about and your false claim that Lenin was a Jew is evidence number one. Lenin's grandfather was Jewish. No one else. Not his parents, not him. A more classically looking Tarter face would be hard to find.

Okay.  Speaking as one who has no dog in this fight, I just have to point something out.  Heorhij said earlier that Lenin was partially Jewish by ethnicity.  Marc1152 then admitted that Lenin's grandfather was a Jew.  Doesn't this then mean that Lenin was ethnically 25% Jewish, thus making Heorhij correct?  After all, Lenin had to have inherited 1/4 of his genetic code from his grandfather.

Only if you are very selective with the posts in this thread and the ongoing debate. The accusation was that all the core leaders of the Revolution  were Jews. That is not true. Lenin was not a Jew. Eventually, that was softend to "Partially Jewish".. Thanks for the addendum. The main argument is defeated though. The core leaders were not all Jewish with the most noteable exception of the central leader of the Revolution, V. I. Lenin and then after him, Stalin.

   
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« Reply #156 on: June 24, 2009, 10:47:19 PM »

The accusation was that all the core leaders of the Revolution  were Jews.

I never made such a statement. I only said that there was a very strong presence of Jews in the top echelons of power in the USSR between years 1917 and ~1938-39.
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« Reply #157 on: June 24, 2009, 10:52:25 PM »

Thank you for all these links, Heorhij! I love to be able to connect faces to these men. The top, right-hand photo is my favourite one of Sverdlov/Solomon, though-I think he looks sooo handsome here:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Sverdlov

 Alas, it sounds like he had a rather cold, icy personality. Sad But can you imagine how YOUNG he actually was to be in such a position of power?? Shocked The man was only 33 when he died!! It's hard to believe!

Well, they were all fairly young when the revolt began in 1917... Kaganovich was 20-something when he was made the chairman of his Belorussian city Communist Party branch, and he kept going up and up and up from there.

Here's a biography and a picture of Yagoda (Yehuda), one of the bloodiest executioners... Also handsome, womanizing etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genrikh_Yagoda
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« Reply #158 on: June 24, 2009, 10:57:33 PM »

Quote
Alexander Orlov, also Russian by birth, attributed the following conversation to Yagoda during his last days at the Lubyanka prison before his execution. When asked by his interrogator if he believed in God, Yagoda replied, "From Stalin I deserved nothing but gratitude for my faithful service; from God I deserved the most severe punishment for having violated his commandments thousands of times. Now look where I am and judge for yourself: is there a God, or not..."

From the above link about Yegoda...



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« Reply #159 on: June 24, 2009, 11:32:47 PM »

The accusation was that all the core leaders of the Revolution were Jews.

I never made such a statement. I only said that there was a very strong presence of Jews in the top echelons of power in the USSR between years 1917 and ~1938-39.


That is a difference without a distinction. Other people in this thread claimed that the core leaders were all Jews.

Either way you spin it, I'd like to know what your point is especially since you plopped it down in the middle of some pretty vile anti-semetic statements by others here.
Was it just an ill timed passing observation or are you implying something sinister? I'd really like to know. 
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« Reply #160 on: June 24, 2009, 11:34:34 PM »

Quote
Alexander Orlov, also Russian by birth, attributed the following conversation to Yagoda during his last days at the Lubyanka prison before his execution. When asked by his interrogator if he believed in God, Yagoda replied, "From Stalin I deserved nothing but gratitude for my faithful service; from God I deserved the most severe punishment for having violated his commandments thousands of times. Now look where I am and judge for yourself: is there a God, or not..."

From the above link about Yegoda...


My own grandfather had similar feelings, even though on a much smaller scale. He was a fanatical Komsomol (Young Communist League) member in his youth, in the 1920-s, and, even though he was never in a secret police or repressive apparatus, he had his share of participation in anti-Christian rallies and in the physical demolition of churches. In the 1930-s and 40-s, he made a brilliant career in the Communist party bureaucracy, becoming, in 1948, the Minister of Education of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. However, in the mid-1950-s, when he was about my present age, he suddenly developed a very severe thyroid problem, and was forced to take an early retirement. From that time on, he lived on a small pension, in a small apartment, forgotten by virtually all his former friends, by the people who used to admire and compliment him. The longer he lived, the more remorseful and repentant he became. In his last few years, he was crying almost all the time, saying, "God, have mercy on us all, forgive us, bloody idiots, for everything we did." He never joined any parish till he died (in 1993), and I don't think he ever talked with any Orthodox priest, but he read the Bible and made a lot of remarks on its margins.
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« Reply #161 on: June 24, 2009, 11:37:59 PM »

The accusation was that all the core leaders of the Revolution were Jews.

I never made such a statement. I only said that there was a very strong presence of Jews in the top echelons of power in the USSR between years 1917 and ~1938-39.


That is a difference without a distinction. Other people in this thread claimed that the core leaders were all Jews.

Either way you spin it, I'd like to know what your point is especially since you plopped it down in the middle of some pretty vile anti-semetic statements by others here.
Was it just an ill timed passing observation or are you implying something sinister? I'd really like to know. 

Forgive me, brother, I do not want to talk with you about Jews or, broader, about the history of the Bolshevik abomination, because you do not know it, and I am not in a position to teach you. You already made up your mind. Be well.
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« Reply #162 on: June 29, 2009, 09:38:00 PM »

The accusation was that all the core leaders of the Revolution were Jews.

I never made such a statement. I only said that there was a very strong presence of Jews in the top echelons of power in the USSR between years 1917 and ~1938-39.


That is a difference without a distinction. Other people in this thread claimed that the core leaders were all Jews.

Either way you spin it, I'd like to know what your point is especially since you plopped it down in the middle of some pretty vile anti-semetic statements by others here.
Was it just an ill timed passing observation or are you implying something sinister? I'd really like to know. 

Forgive me, brother, I do not want to talk with you about Jews or, broader, about the history of the Bolshevik abomination, because you do not know it, and I am not in a position to teach you. You already made up your mind. Be well.

You gotta be kidding
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« Reply #163 on: June 29, 2009, 09:55:03 PM »

No Marc1152, Heorhij is serious.

You either don't know, or you are spreading desinformatia, this is why I didn't answer you anymore, at least Heorhij had the decency to turn the sheet, instead of politely ignoring you.

From what Heorhij posts in here, I can see he really knows about the revolution and the role of the jews in this terrible process.

One can see the judaization process in the former USSR today, they are actually the fathers of de-christianization, and the russophobic measures that still go on, which include the creation of artificial nations such as Ukraine and Belarus with the aim to divide the Russian People and turn brother against brother by creating an artificial identity and balkanizing the region.

What's next? The creation  of the Republic of Ruskayakarellia and creating a "ruskayakarellian language" based on a mix of the dialects spoken in Smolenks and Leningrad with other elements borrowed from some finnish dialects? The cutting of electricity supply to that region with the excuse that they were "stealing it from Russia"? The creation of an artificial russkayakarellian identity, where people is mislead into thinking they are not russians, and start hating the russians? The mysterious poisoning of the ruskayakarellian president and an orange revolution? The creation of a russkayakarellian patriarchate under the Moscow Patriarchate, a russkayakarellian Patriarchare under the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and and independent russkayakarellian patriarchate? The display of military excercises in the russkayakarellian part of the White Sea, by the USA and Norweigan allies?......






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« Reply #164 on: June 29, 2009, 10:23:43 PM »

No Marc1152, Heorhij is serious.

You either don't know, or you are spreading desinformatia, this is why I didn't answer you anymore, at least Heorhij had the decency to turn the sheet, instead of politely ignoring you.

From what Heorhij posts in here, I can see he really knows about the revolution and the role of the jews in this terrible process.

One can see the judaization process in the former USSR today, they are actually the fathers of de-christianization, and the russophobic measures that still go on, which include the creation of artificial nations such as Ukraine and Belarus with the aim to divide the Russian People and turn brother against brother by creating an artificial identity and balkanizing the region.

What's next? The creation  of the Republic of Ruskayakarellia and creating a "ruskayakarellian language" based on a mix of the dialects spoken in Smolenks and Leningrad with other elements borrowed from some finnish dialects? The cutting of electricity supply to that region with the excuse that they were "stealing it from Russia"? The creation of an artificial russkayakarellian identity, where people is mislead into thinking they are not russians, and start hating the russians? The mysterious poisoning of the ruskayakarellian president and an orange revolution? The creation of a russkayakarellian patriarchate under the Moscow Patriarchate, a russkayakarellian Patriarchare under the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and and independent russkayakarellian patriarchate? The display of military excercises in the russkayakarellian part of the White Sea, by the USA and Norweigan allies?......




Er..... I think there are many clear thinking, well educated and reasonable people on this forum. It doesn't take much to figure your game out and I trust most people here have done that by this point. If Heorhij has thrown in with you, then perhaps someone with more influence with him than I can take him aside and explain why that may not be a such good idea.

Your idea's and point of view are not only in error but unwholesome.

Lord have mercy on you.
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« Reply #165 on: June 29, 2009, 10:31:00 PM »

IPC wrote:

"What's next? The creation  of the Republic of Ruskayakarellia and creating a "ruskayakarellian language" based on a mix of the dialects spoken in Smolenks and Leningrad with other elements borrowed from some finnish dialects?"

Maybe in the alternate universe that you inhabit!  Grin
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« Reply #166 on: June 30, 2009, 08:35:23 AM »

Well, where IPC and I begin to differ is the issue of "separatism." I do not believe for one second that Jews were in any way responsible for creation of the free, independent, self-governing Ukrainian state. The struggle for such a state began with Khmel'nyts'kyj in 1648, continued with Mazepa in 1709, and then with His Majesty Het'man Pavlo Skoropads'kyj in 1917-18, Prof. Mykhailo Hrushevs'kyj and the Dyrektorija in 1917-1920, Chief Otaman Symon Petlyura in 1918-21, Chief Providnyk Stepan Bandera in 1941-1955, and, finally, with the Rukh ("Movement") of the 1960-s - 2000-s. There was certainly zero Jewish influence on any of the above mentioned personalities or organizations they represented and directed.

In today's Ukraine, politicians of the Jewish ethnicity are active "across the isle," all over the spectrum of political parties and movements, from Ukrainian nationalist to rabidly pro-Russian and anti-Ukrainian. For example, Aleksandr Feldman was active in the Yulia Tymoshenko BYuT political block together with a renowned conservative, aggressive Ukrainian nationalist Stepan Khmara (who recently left BYuT); on the other hand, one very anti-Ukrainian political party prominent in the late 1990-s - early 2000-s, called "Social Democratic Party of Ukraine (United)" (Ukrainian acronym SDPU(o)), had so many Jewish representatives that it got nicknamed "Social Democratic Party of Ukraine (Circumsized)" (word play, as "O" in Ukrainian may stand for "Objednana" - United" or "Obrizani" - Circumcized").

Again, I do not believe in conspiracy theories like the global Jewish plot aimed at destroying every good thing in the world. I do not believe that the entire tragedy of the Bolshevik revolt of 1917 was scripted, staged in some mystery-covered headquarters of the invisible global Jewish government. It was a lot more complicated than that. But I do not believe, either, that Jews in the former USSR were a small and violently repressed religious minority - especially in the USSR's early years, 1917-1938. They were not small in that they, in spite of making up only ~2% of the population of the Soviet Union, had an extremely strong, dominating presence in all Soviet governmental offices - People's Comissariats, Politotdels (political leadership) of the Red Army, secret police, punitive/repressive/terror organs like Gulag, etc. They were entirely secular, atheist (and yet Jewish by their own self-determination), and very, very systematically, agressively, cruelly anti-Christian and anti-Orthodox. They were a very integral part of the demonic Communist state machine. It would hardly achieve its goals without their active and very willing participation. 

P.S. I am afraid this thread went way beyond the OP as well as of the scope of the Religious Issues forum, so we should, perhaps, start a new thread - probably better on the private Politics forum, especially where we talk about the today's political issues.
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« Reply #167 on: June 30, 2009, 10:47:30 AM »

the russophobic measures that still go on, which include the creation of artificial nations such as Ukraine and Belarus with the aim to divide the Russian People and turn brother against brother by creating an artificial identity and balkanizing the region.

 Huh Huh  "artificial"?  Are you making the claim that all of the people within the borders of the former Soviet Union are "Russian"?  I know some people whose ancestors came to the US from the Ukraine some generations back (2 at least) and they are quite clear that they are of Ukrainian background. 

What of the various peoples in other areas such as Georgia and Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan etc etc?  Are they all "really Russians"?


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« Reply #168 on: June 30, 2009, 11:08:59 AM »

the russophobic measures that still go on, which include the creation of artificial nations such as Ukraine and Belarus with the aim to divide the Russian People and turn brother against brother by creating an artificial identity and balkanizing the region.

 Huh Huh  "artificial"?  Are you making the claim that all of the people within the borders of the former Soviet Union are "Russian"?  I know some people whose ancestors came to the US from the Ukraine some generations back (2 at least) and they are quite clear that they are of Ukrainian background. 

What of the various peoples in other areas such as Georgia and Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan etc etc?  Are they all "really Russians"?


Ahhh... it's so sad for me to see this strange Great Russian lack of understanding of the right of people to determine themselves as a nation...

In 1918, Baron Peter Wrangel, then a representative of Gen. Anton Denikin (the chief commander of the "Armed Forces of the South of Russia," the "White Guards") - and later himself the chief commander of the White army - met with His Majesty Het'man Pavlo Skoropads'ky in Kyiv. His Majesty tried to explain to him that Ukraine is real and that Ukraine needs a full SUPPORT of the White army, rather than the total disregard from the Whites, who still believed in the "One Indivisible Russia" and called Ukrainians "separatists." Wrangel did not listen... and we know the result... Sad
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« Reply #169 on: June 30, 2009, 11:15:42 AM »

So you've seen this before, Heorhij?  There is a common attitude in some quarters of "Everyone is Russian" even if they say that they aren't? 

Sigh.

 Yes, I know what came of the White Army. 
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« Reply #170 on: June 30, 2009, 11:43:10 AM »

Marc1152  first of all, I'm not grouping with anyone, I just support people who are sensible, and give accurate facts whomever they might be.

Eugenio, the sole idea of the formation of an independent nation such as Belarus, would have sound as a wild fantasy lets say, 30 years ago. This is why I made that analogy.

The Ukranian case is a different thing, we can trace separatist movements there back in the 17th century, and Ukraine in my opinion has a solid foundation for it's creation as an independent state.

What I wanted to point out is the nationalistic radical russophobic movements, flowing from the radical revolutionary ideology.

In the specific case of Ukraine, there is the historical and legitimate independence movement, and the radical new nationalism, which has cause so much harm in the region.

I don't believe in conspiracy theories, and I think it would be wrong to blame all what's happening in our beloved Russia to a specific group, but the role of specific groups in some world happenings is more than evident.

Taking a closer look at Ukraine, we can see the legitimate independence movement and the legitimate Ukrainian Church, totally ruined by the different antagonistic actors such as the neo-nationalistics, the pro-European Union, the pro-USA faction, the Moscow Patriarchate, the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and the Roman Catholic Church, not to mention the other loose groups.

This is nothing else than the continuation of the very same dialectical materialism planted in the russian. And what's the origin of dialectical materialism? The jewish leaders like Marx, and Lenin among others.

The issue is not separatism, the issue is the intestine chaos and conflicts specifically tailored and perfected to destroy the identity and real roots of individuals and create a new synthetic malleable man with no values, and no roots, with an imaginary, shallow, and feeble idea of who he really is.

People in the Russian Empire, had solid roots, and firm faith, they knew who they were, both as nations, and as subjects of the Empire, and this is precisely what the revolutionary jews came to destroy.

In the case of Ukraine, I would say, yes, it has been an authentic nation, but the way it was recently created, it's totally artificial.





« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 11:48:12 AM by IPC » Logged

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« Reply #171 on: July 01, 2009, 01:12:28 AM »

The world as IPC sees it:
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« Reply #172 on: July 01, 2009, 01:18:28 AM »

The world as IPC sees it:

Love the map!!! Grin

But I am confused... I came back to have a read of this thread to see what is being said about Jewish traditions in the Roman Catholic Church but it is now all about the Jewish Revolution in Russia.
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« Reply #173 on: July 01, 2009, 04:56:26 AM »

I love it too!! An absurd and muddled plot worthy of a Marx Brothers picture - hey, they already did it with Duck Souplaugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #174 on: July 01, 2009, 01:49:21 PM »

The world as IPC sees it:

Love the map!!! Grin

But I am confused... I came back to have a read of this thread to see what is being said about Jewish traditions in the Roman Catholic Church but it is now all about the Jewish Revolution in Russia.

Indeed, the thread probably should have been split off at some point. However, at this point, we are almost  done anyway.
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« Reply #175 on: July 01, 2009, 02:08:25 PM »

I finally got time to look at the link offered up earlier to buttress the claim that the Soviet Revolution was "dominated by Jews".... Let me just say again that I have no argument over the fact that nearly all Jews in Russia sided with the Revolution. But there was an obviously  anti-semitic implication to this pronouncement.

In any event, I went to the web page offered up http://www.christianparty.net/
There you will find a page with a list of Russian sounding names, some of which are recognizable as former Revolutionary Leaders. Others are just lists of names of God knows who. After most names is the word "JEW " after a few there is some other designation like "Russian" or next to Stalin "Georgian".But the point is clear: Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew .....

If you look further, you get the fuller picture. Not only were the leaders of the Russian Revolution nearly all "JEWS" but it seems that EVERYBODY this group dislikes is a...JEW !!!

John McCain... JEW !  His father, Admiral McCain...JEW..  President Roosevelt .. JEW !  Winston Churchill ... JEW ! George Bush... JEW ! Lenin .. JEW !

And for the grand finale... how to handle Hitler for a Russian Orthodox Audience.. He's a hard sell to the Russians so you cant appear to be on his side or have his ideas.. But these folks have found a novel solution... Ready for it??  Drum roll ( cause it's a good one)

Scroll down

Scroll down

Scroll down

Ready

Set ?

They claim HITLER was "really"..... You guessed it... A JEW !!!!

So this whole argument about Jews in the Revolution needs to be put into the entire context of this Nut Case World View and dismissed for what it is, truth mixed with a bigger lie.. Always the strategy of the "Real" Evil One.

Defense rests your honor.

 
 

 
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« Reply #176 on: July 01, 2009, 02:58:36 PM »

One can see the judaization process in the former USSR today, they are actually the fathers of de-christianization, and the russophobic measures that still go on, which include the creation of artificial nations such as Ukraine and Belarus with the aim to divide the Russian People and turn brother against brother by creating an artificial identity and balkanizing the region.

Yeah, all Ukrainian rulers were disguished Jews, even Khmielnicky, who was impalementing his brothers in faith.

The first independant Belarusian independant country appeared in the late 10th century - the Principality of Polotsk.
The battles over Niamiha and Orsza are the best arguments for the "unity of Russian people".
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« Reply #177 on: July 02, 2009, 04:18:12 PM »

I finally got time to look at the link offered up earlier to buttress the claim that the Soviet Revolution was "dominated by Jews".... Let me just say again that I have no argument over the fact that nearly all Jews in Russia sided with the Revolution. But there was an obviously  anti-semitic implication to this pronouncement.

In any event, I went to the web page offered up http://www.christianparty.net/
There you will find a page with a list of Russian sounding names, some of which are recognizable as former Revolutionary Leaders. Others are just lists of names of God knows who. After most names is the word "JEW " after a few there is some other designation like "Russian" or next to Stalin "Georgian".But the point is clear: Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew .....

If you look further, you get the fuller picture. Not only were the leaders of the Russian Revolution nearly all "JEWS" but it seems that EVERYBODY this group dislikes is a...JEW !!!

John McCain... JEW !  His father, Admiral McCain...JEW..  President Roosevelt .. JEW !  Winston Churchill ... JEW ! George Bush... JEW ! Lenin .. JEW !

And for the grand finale... how to handle Hitler for a Russian Orthodox Audience.. He's a hard sell to the Russians so you cant appear to be on his side or have his ideas.. But these folks have found a novel solution... Ready for it??  Drum roll ( cause it's a good one)

Scroll down

Scroll down

Scroll down

Ready

Set ?

They claim HITLER was "really"..... You guessed it... A JEW !!!!

So this whole argument about Jews in the Revolution needs to be put into the entire context of this Nut Case World View and dismissed for what it is, truth mixed with a bigger lie.. Always the strategy of the "Real" Evil One.

Defense rests your honor.

 
 

Is there anyone who was not a Jew or did not have  Jewish ancestry?
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« Reply #178 on: July 02, 2009, 07:44:50 PM »

I finally got time to look at the link offered up earlier to buttress the claim that the Soviet Revolution was "dominated by Jews".... Let me just say again that I have no argument over the fact that nearly all Jews in Russia sided with the Revolution. But there was an obviously anti-semitic implication to this pronouncement.

In any event, I went to the web page offered up http://www.christianparty.net/
There you will find a page with a list of Russian sounding names, some of which are recognizable as former Revolutionary Leaders. Others are just lists of names of God knows who. After most names is the word "JEW " after a few there is some other designation like "Russian" or next to Stalin "Georgian".But the point is clear: Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew .....

If you look further, you get the fuller picture. Not only were the leaders of the Russian Revolution nearly all "JEWS" but it seems that EVERYBODY this group dislikes is a...JEW !!!

John McCain... JEW !  His father, Admiral McCain...JEW..  President Roosevelt .. JEW !  Winston Churchill ... JEW ! George Bush... JEW ! Lenin .. JEW !

And for the grand finale... how to handle Hitler for a Russian Orthodox Audience.. He's a hard sell to the Russians so you cant appear to be on his side or have his ideas.. But these folks have found a novel solution... Ready for it??  Drum roll ( cause it's a good one)

Scroll down

Scroll down

Scroll down

Ready

Set ?

They claim HITLER was "really"..... You guessed it... A JEW !!!!

So this whole argument about Jews in the Revolution needs to be put into the entire context of this Nut Case World View and dismissed for what it is, truth mixed with a bigger lie.. Always the strategy of the "Real" Evil One.

Defense rests your honor.

 
 

Is there anyone who was not a Jew or did not have  Jewish ancestry?

It depends what you mean. If you are referring to all moderate or liberal leaders of the modern era  they list them as all "Jews".. If you mean leaders of Soviet Russia they listed a few well known people as either Russian or Georgian.. It would be a tough sell to list Stalin as anything else.   

I didnt see any mention of the Pope but who knows, that accent could be evidence.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 07:47:01 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #179 on: July 02, 2009, 10:32:55 PM »

It depends what you mean. If you are referring to all moderate or liberal leaders of the modern era  they list them as all "Jews".. If you mean leaders of Soviet Russia they listed a few well known people as either Russian or Georgian.. It would be a tough sell to list Stalin as anything else.   

I didnt see any mention of the Pope but who knows, that accent could be evidence.

I checked the site out as well.  They didn't need to mention the Bishop of Rome as being a Jew.  There's a whole page about how the evils and wrongness of the RCs. Great Googaly-Moogaly!  What a load of dingoes kidneys.

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