Author Topic: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal  (Read 6728 times)

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Offline mike

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Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« on: June 16, 2009, 07:46:25 AM »
Quote
Dzhankoy, June 16, Interfax – Hegumen Feognost (Pushkov), nicknamed abbatus_mozdok and known in Internet community for his scandal texts, is suspended from his clerical duties.

The Diocesan Council took such a decision. According to the Diocesan press-service, Hegumen Feognost “is a notorious Internet hooligan” and should be suspended from his clerical duties until “the temptation is healed.”

“Hegumen Feognost was suspended from exercising clerical functions for bringing temptation and impiety in word, for deviant behavior at the divine service,” the Diocesan press-service further said.

The Russian Orthodox Church has earlier hold discussion whether it is possible to “jokingly” and “ironically” talk of inner church problems as is practiced by some Orthodox priests in blogs and Internet-forums.

“If we can’t talk to each other frankly and swamp Internet with nicknamed accusations, it witnesses to a grave disease in our spiritual life,” chairman of the Synodal Church and Society Department Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin has earlier said.

Interfax


Priests: beware  :police:  ;)

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2009, 09:14:59 AM »

Why is he considered a UKRAINIAN priest?

From his name, one might deduce he is of Russian heritage, and it appears he serves for the Moscow Patriarch.

"Hegumen Feognost Pushkov, Candidate of Theology, Ukrainian Autonomous Orthodox Church (MP)"

Source:  http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/


...just curious.


Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline arimethea

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2009, 09:27:14 AM »

Why is he considered a UKRAINIAN priest?

From his name, one might deduce he is of Russian heritage, and it appears he serves for the Moscow Patriarch.

"Hegumen Feognost Pushkov, Candidate of Theology, Ukrainian Autonomous Orthodox Church (MP)"

Source:  http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/


...just curious.


He is a Ukrainian because he is a bad priest, if he was a good priest he would be Russian. You are Ukrainian so you should know this already.  ;D
Joseph

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2009, 09:36:57 AM »


...that's exactly what I figured.

Therefore, I had to dig a bit deeper to verify the facts!

 ;)

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2009, 09:47:37 AM »

Why is he considered a UKRAINIAN priest?

From his name, one might deduce he is of Russian heritage, and it appears he serves for the Moscow Patriarch.

"Hegumen Feognost Pushkov, Candidate of Theology, Ukrainian Autonomous Orthodox Church (MP)"

Source:  http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/


...just curious.


He is a Ukrainian because he is a bad priest, if he was a good priest he would be Russian. You are Ukrainian so you should know this already.  ;D

He is in Dzhankoy, Crimea, Ukraine.  Everyone in Ukraine is Ukrainian.  At least that is what we are contiually told....
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2009, 10:09:38 AM »


Really?  Who told you that?

As far as I am concerned, Crimea is a part of Ukraine, just as Florida is part of the U.S.

However, just as we have many Cubans, Haitians, etc. populating Florida, so has Crimea many nationalities.
Not all of those individuals in Florida are Americans, even through they reside on American soil.  Same holds true in Crimea.

So, whoever told you otherwise, was in error.

However, make no mistake, that Crimea is part of Ukraine, and therefore should support Ukrainian needs, not Russian.
I would be offended if Floridians began opposing American ideals, and suggesting that Florida secede and become part of Cuba.



Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2009, 10:32:11 AM »


Really?  Who told you that?

Heorhij. Repeatedly.  But then he has also exposed me as an upaid KGB agent. LOL.

Quote
As far as I am concerned, Crimea is a part of Ukraine, just as Florida is part of the U.S.

However, just as we have many Cubans, Haitians, etc. populating Florida, so has Crimea many nationalities.
Not all of those individuals in Florida are Americans, even through they reside on American soil.  Same holds true in Crimea.

The Crimea (or should I say, "Crimea": it is an autonomous republic, whose constitution specifies Russian as its language of government) was Stalin's gift to Ukraine at the 300 anniversity of the union of Ukraine with the Russian empire.  Similar Soviet gifts were Galicia and Bucovina (the latter which was not theirs to give).  If the marriage is disolved, does the dowry have to be returned?

Quote
So, whoever told you otherwise, was in error.
::)

Quote
However, make no mistake, that Crimea is part of Ukraine, and therefore should support Ukrainian needs, not Russian.
I would be offended if Floridians began opposing American ideals, and suggesting that Florida secede and become part of Cuba.

the Cubans came to Florida, the US didn't annex it from Cuba.

Ukraine came to Crimea, not Russians to the Ukraine (or for that matter the Crimean Tartars).

If Ukraine needs a monolithic ethnically homogenous state, then the Russians, Russyns, Tartars, Romanians etc. should support the break up of Ukraine.  The dicoese of Crimea has already stated it will not go with a Kiev patriarchate if it breaks with Moscow.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2009, 10:34:57 AM »
All citizens of Ukraine are Ukrainians, "politically speaking," just like all citizens of the USA are Americans.

Ukraine is in the process of forming a political nation, which is meant, designed, to include many different ethnicities.

Some of the most wonderful Ukrainian writers, poets, artists, musicians, etc. were not of the "pure" Ukrainian ethnicity. Mykola Khvyl'yovyj, the early modernist writer who, in the mid-1920's, passionately preached the slogan, "Het' vid Moskvy!" ("Away from Moscow" - meaning that Ukrainian writers should study more of the Western European literature rather than be Russian copycats), was half-Ukrainian and half-Russian (his real name was Nikolai Fitilyov). A great children's writer of the 1920-s - early 1930-s, Mike Johansen, was 100% German who wrote  in a very beautiful, rich Ukrainian language that he picked up from Ukrainian farmers growing up in the Katerynoslav region. A poet-"neoclassic" Maksym Ryl'skyj (1920-s - 1960-s) was half-Polish. A great symphony music writer (and my relative), Levko Revuts'kyj (a.k.a. Rzevusky) was a descendant of a Polish family who converted to Orthodoxy.

My most admired and beloved modern Ukrainian poet, Leonid Kysel'ov (+1968, age 23, acute leukemia) was a 100% ethnic Russian (and a passionate Ukrainian nationalist, one of the founders of the Rukh movement in the 1960-s).

The priest who lives in Dzhankoi and belongs to UOC-MP may be Russian, Ukrainian or Martian, for all I care. :)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 10:48:20 AM by Heorhij »
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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2009, 11:39:33 AM »
Quote
Dzhankoy, June 16, Interfax – Hegumen Feognost (Pushkov), nicknamed abbatus_mozdok and known in Internet community for his scandal texts, is suspended from his clerical duties.

The Diocesan Council took such a decision. According to the Diocesan press-service, Hegumen Feognost “is a notorious Internet hooligan” and should be suspended from his clerical duties until “the temptation is healed.”

“Hegumen Feognost was suspended from exercising clerical functions for bringing temptation and impiety in word, for deviant behavior at the divine service,” the Diocesan press-service further said.

The Russian Orthodox Church has earlier hold discussion whether it is possible to “jokingly” and “ironically” talk of inner church problems as is practiced by some Orthodox priests in blogs and Internet-forums.

“If we can’t talk to each other frankly and swamp Internet with nicknamed accusations, it witnesses to a grave disease in our spiritual life,” chairman of the Synodal Church and Society Department Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin has earlier said.

Interfax


Priests: beware  :police:  ;)

"a notorious Internet hooligan” lol I love it!

So what exactly is an "Internet hooligan"? Do we have any on this site? I think I'm gonna start tossing that term around. It's awesome!

In all seriousness though, what HAS this priest actually DONE?

Anyone know?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 11:40:36 AM by HandmaidenofGod »
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline mike

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2009, 04:51:48 PM »
Has anybody an account on that site? S/he might check it out.

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 05:33:21 PM »

Why is he considered a UKRAINIAN priest?

From his name, one might deduce he is of Russian heritage, and it appears he serves for the Moscow Patriarch.

"Hegumen Feognost Pushkov, Candidate of Theology, Ukrainian Autonomous Orthodox Church (MP)"

Source:  http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/


...just curious.


He is a Ukrainian because he is a bad priest, if he was a good priest he would be Russian. You are Ukrainian so you should know this already.  ;D

He is in Dzhankoy, Crimea, Ukraine.  Everyone in Ukraine is Ukrainian.  At least that is what we are contiually told....

Odd because if you live in Ukraine as a citizen then that makes you Ukrainian complete with Ukrainian passport.  Are not those who live in the USA as citizens complete with a USA passport not Americans?  Their citizenship would say so regardless of what language or religion or type of food they ate.  However if it were say a Russian citizen on assignment to a job in Ukraine then it would be safe to say that person is Russian working in Ukraine.  Imagine being "contiually told" that "everyone in Ukraine is Ukrainian."  It would be safe to assume that "yes resident citizenship holding persons in Ukraine are Ukrainian regardless of language they speak." 

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2009, 05:40:26 PM »

I would agree. That's why I said not all people living in Florida are Americans.  Many are Cubans (not US citizens) living on US territory.
America is full of non-Americans!

 :D

...as I am sure, Ukraine is full of non-Ukrainians.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2009, 08:16:46 PM »

Ah-huh!  Just as I suspected.  It's in Russian, not Ukrainian!   ;)
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2009, 08:28:45 PM »

Ah-huh!  Just as I suspected.  It's in Russian, not Ukrainian!   ;)

So?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2009, 08:41:05 PM »

...so, since he is of Russian origin (my guess, and not official) due to his name, and he belongs to the Moscow Patriarchate, and his blog is written in Russian....one would assume that the title of the "article" would have read:

        Russian Priest suspended for posting....

Just an observation.

Either way, it's a sad day that an Orthodox priest got suspended.
That is worst of all - regardless if he's Ukrainian or Russian.
I like to believe our priests are all above reproach.






Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2009, 09:13:11 PM »

I would agree. That's why I said not all people living in Florida are Americans.  Many are Cubans (not US citizens) living on US territory.
America is full of non-Americans!

 :D

...as I am sure, Ukraine is full of non-Ukrainians.



Correct however if they are Ukrainian citizens then they are Ukrainians. 

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2009, 10:24:04 PM »

...so, since he is of Russian origin

LOL.  So is Crimea and half of Ukraine.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Ukraine-Little_Rus_1654.png/250px-Ukraine-Little_Rus_1654.png
Ukrainian Hetmanate at the time of the union with the Russian Empire, and the present day borders of Ukraine.

Quote
(my guess, and not official) due to his name, and he belongs to the Moscow Patriarchate, and his blog is written in Russian....one would assume that the title of the "article" would have read:

        Russian Priest suspended for posting....

not if he is in Ukraine, if this Ukraine passport business is the determinative factor.

Quote
Just an observation.

Either way, it's a sad day that an Orthodox priest got suspended.
That is worst of all - regardless if he's Ukrainian or Russian.
I like to believe our priests are all above reproach.

That depends on what he did, or is accused of doing.






« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 10:30:13 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2009, 10:59:44 PM »
Louisiana citizens are French.

They just forgot that they are French.

Actually, a good number of them recalled that they are French, and organized themselves into a French Bloc.

They lament that the evil American state oppresses them, and that the evil American Stars-And-Stripes (=bad-bad-bad) ruling party and President suppress them, depriving them of their rights.

The French Bloc is an organization that has been recently in the news, and on the Internet, and a subject of Ialmisty's historical research. They do not go off the news or off the Internet for the latest 20 years, they keep making a loud appearance day after day after day.

Ialmisry sincerely believes that they represent the wll of the people and that they are not the creature of any agency that pays trillions of dollars to keep their propaganda going.

In the nearest future, Ialmisry will make inquiries about the legitimate right of these people to secede from the USA, as well as of the legitimate right of New Mexicans and of the Texans and of the authentic population of Malibu to secede from the USA, and also about the legitimate right of Nova Scotians to secede from Canada.

And then he will discover that he's been sleeping for a little too long...

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2009, 12:25:04 AM »
Louisiana citizens are French.

They just forgot that they are French.

Actually, a good number of them recalled that they are French, and organized themselves into a French Bloc.

They lament that the evil American state oppresses them, and that the evil American Stars-And-Stripes (=bad-bad-bad) ruling party and President suppress them, depriving them of their rights.

The French Bloc is an organization that has been recently in the news, and on the Internet, and a subject of Ialmisty's historical research. They do not go off the news or off the Internet for the latest 20 years, they keep making a loud appearance day after day after day.

These folks sound like the secessionist Quebecois in Canada. Secession is a romantic ideal, but, unfortunately, reality is very different in the vast majority of cases.
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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2009, 12:31:27 AM »
Louisiana citizens are French.

They just forgot that they are French.

Actually, a good number of them recalled that they are French, and organized themselves into a French Bloc.

They lament that the evil American state oppresses them, and that the evil American Stars-And-Stripes (=bad-bad-bad) ruling party and President suppress them, depriving them of their rights.

The French Bloc is an organization that has been recently in the news, and on the Internet, and a subject of Ialmisty's historical research. They do not go off the news or off the Internet for the latest 20 years, they keep making a loud appearance day after day after day.

Ialmisry sincerely believes that they represent the wll of the people and that they are not the creature of any agency that pays trillions of dollars to keep their propaganda going.

In the nearest future, Ialmisry will make inquiries about the legitimate right of these people to secede from the USA, as well as of the legitimate right of New Mexicans and of the Texans and of the authentic population of Malibu to secede from the USA, and also about the legitimate right of Nova Scotians to secede from Canada.

And then he will discover that he's been sleeping for a little too long...

LOL.  Now you really stepped in it.

First of all, you are aware that Loisiana did secede from the USA, no?  (btw, there have been Nova Scotians talking of seceding).  Back when it was more French than it is now:French was still spoken into the 1920's on a large scale there, until Hewey Long.  Talk of oppressors.  French was banned as he moved roads through the Cajun lands in his industrialization and modernization programs, part of his aggrandizement programs. Children were punished in the public schools for speaking French.

Have you been in LA?  You are aware that LA has parishes, not counties, because of the French administration?  That LA law is NOT common law, but civil code, based on the Napoleonic Code?  Ironic, as the Bourbons had lost LA.  But then, that may explain the history: the French organized themselves when the Spanish public schools only taught Spanish, and identified more with what was going on in Paris (hence the Napoleanic Code) than Madrid.  Btw, the LA French, Creole and Cajun, have a right to return under the Code Napoléon.  Hence, the apprehension many in Congress expressed openly at LA's admission to the union, whether they could be made American.  The Louisianians, for their part, spoke of les Americains as another group.

So no, they haven't completely forgotten.  In New Orleans last summer I heard the Anglisized  lament the loss of French.

By Legislative Act No. 409 in 1968, the Louisiana governor is granted the authorization "to establish the Council for the Development of Louisiana-French," now called  Council for the Development of French in Louisiana (in English in French as le Conseil pour le développement du français en Louisiane and Konséy pou Dévelopmen di françé en Lwizyàn in Creole)
http://www.codofil.org/english/
and that the agency is to consist of no more than fifty members including a chairman, with the power to "do anything possible and necessary to encourage the development, usage and preservation of French as it exists in Louisiana."  LA adopted French as co-official, it is now in LA public schools pre-school through high school, and college courses, recruiting teachers from Canada, France, Belgium and the rest of Francophonie.  French has the same official standing as English in government.  Acadania is an offiically designated region of the state, with Lafayette as its capital.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Acadiana_parishes_map.png
with its flag:

http://www.frenchcreoles.com/LouisianaPeople/louisiana%20cajuns/415px-Flag_of_Acadiana.svg.png
The University there has a PhD program in French.

LA is also a member of la Francophonie, the French version of the British Commonwealth.

Btw, you are aware that they are not the only French speakers in the US?  In Maine you have the Brayon, a fifth of the state, as well as the large number in New Hampshire and Vermont (Quebecois and Accadiens).  In much of that area, you are addressed in French first.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Flag_of_the_New_England_Acadians.svg/415px-Flag_of_the_New_England_Acadians.svg.png
Flag of the New England Acadiens.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2009, 12:33:50 AM »
I'm going to go out on a limb here and perhaps think... maybe Heorhij was speaking metaphorically?

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2009, 12:37:21 AM »
I'm going to go out on a limb here and perhaps think... maybe Heorhij was speaking metaphorically?

The word is sarcasticly.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Starlight

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2009, 12:55:47 AM »
Everyone who lives in USA must respect USA. Everyone who lives in Ukraine must respect Ukraine. The list can be continued until all (195) countries will be mentioned.

The problems of Ukraine come from trillions of dollars, spent by Putin's dictatorship, special operations of KGB / FSB and special interests of Gazprom, etc., targeting destruction of the country.


...so, since he is of Russian origin

LOL.  So is Crimea and half of Ukraine.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Ukraine-Little_Rus_1654.png/250px-Ukraine-Little_Rus_1654.png
Ukrainian Hetmanate at the time of the union with the Russian Empire, and the present day borders of Ukraine.

No way that half of Ukraine has Russian origin. More importantly, as Heorhij correctly pointed out, many Ukrainian patriots have ethnic Russian origin.

Crimean Tatars historically lived in Crimea:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/sota/krimtatar.html
http://www.euronet.nl/users/sota/krimwho.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars

The area to the west from Ukrainian Hetmanate seems very familiar to me because I grew up there. The views are as pro-Ukrainian there as you can imagene. I am talking really about the absolute overwhelming majority. That most certainly includes persons with various non-Ukrainian ethnic roots.

Offline Starlight

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2009, 01:07:59 AM »
I am familiar with writings of Ihumen Feognost (Pushkov). He has a habit of frequent deletion of his statements in his LJ blog.

Fr. Feognost was extremely agressive and offensive to his opponents, which often included clergy as well. The discussion about him in Russian language can be found here:
http://gasloff.livejournal.com/264745.html

Igor Gasloff is one the lead specialists in Canon Law in the entire Moscow Patriarchate.

It was only approximately (2) years since Fr. Feognost relocated to Ukraine from Russia. He was previously warned for the same reason in Ivanovo Diocese of Russian Orthodox Church.

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2009, 01:24:27 AM »
"a notorious Internet hooligan” lol I love it!

So what exactly is an "Internet hooligan"? Do we have any on this site? I think I'm gonna start tossing that term around. It's awesome!

In all seriousness though, what HAS this priest actually DONE?

Anyone know?
I like dirty laundry too ::)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 01:29:22 AM by ChristusDominus »
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2009, 07:30:00 AM »
I'm going to go out on a limb here and perhaps think... maybe Heorhij was speaking metaphorically?

The word is sarcasticly.

Ironically. Good-naturedly. :)
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2009, 07:48:57 AM »
Everyone who lives in USA must respect USA. Everyone who lives in Ukraine must respect Ukraine. The list can be continued until all (195) countries will be mentioned.

The problems of Ukraine come from trillions of dollars, spent by Putin's dictatorship, special operations of KGB / FSB and special interests of Gazprom, etc., targeting destruction of the country.

Thank you, brother. That's what I have been pointing out to Isa, all along. And to other Moskvophiles as well.

No way that half of Ukraine has Russian origin. More importantly, as Heorhij correctly pointed out, many Ukrainian patriots have ethnic Russian origin.

According to the official statistics, about 17%-18% of Ukrainian citizens are ethnic Russians. However, of course it is difficult to determine for sure, just who has what ethnic roots. Statistical analyses of this sort are based mostly on people's self-determination.

The HABIT of speaking Russian formed among very many Ukrainians when their families re-settled from rural areas to big cities. It was a survival thing, because in the urban life of the former Russian Empire, as well as in the urban life of the former USSR, the Russian language was forced upon people. All bureaucracy was hierarchichal, centralized, "piramidal," reporting to Moscow. Therefore, even though local languages were preserved, there existed schools that taught children in local languages, etc., - the success in people's lives dependend very strongly on mastering the Russian language. In addition, Russian was the only language of the Soviet Army, where virtually all young men all over the USSR had to serve for 3 years (only rather shortly prior to the disintegration of the USSR eased to 2 years). After having been immersed into the totally Russophone atmosphere for at least 2 years, the 20-year olds returned to their homes with their minds being very thoroughly Russified.

Through and through, there was this notion that only Russian is "real" and useful for anyone who wants to succeed in life, while local languages are not important. My grandmother often recalled how, in the 1920-s, her mother tried to hire young girls to help her with home chores, and these girls made it a condition of their hire that my great-grandma would, as they said, "teach them to speak Urban" ("shchoby navchyla hovoryty po-horods'komu").

It is Ukraine's great shame, great problem rooted in her colonial past that so many Ukrainians are habitual Russophones, not something that reflects ethnic "diversity" etc.

Crimean Tatars historically lived in Crimea:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/sota/krimtatar.html
http://www.euronet.nl/users/sota/krimwho.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars

Yes. And they were deported in 1944, totally, as people. Ukraine is now taking steps to cure that tragedy. The Tatars are allowed to return, actually encouraged to return to their historical homeland. There now exist flourishing, prosperous Tatar communities all over the Crimea. Tatars generally are pro-Ukrainian, pro-independence. Their Parliament ("Medzhlis") is rather supportive of the Ukrainian President and of the pro-Ukrainian political parties.

The area to the west from Ukrainian Hetmanate seems very familiar to me because I grew up there. The views are as pro-Ukrainian there as you can imagene. I am talking really about the absolute overwhelming majority. That most certainly includes persons with various non-Ukrainian ethnic roots.

Kyiv, the capital, is overwhelmingly pro-Ukrainian as well, even though you hardly even hear the Ukrainian language on its streets (again, alas, the colonial past...).
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 07:55:39 AM by Heorhij »
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Online ialmisry

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2009, 09:22:48 AM »
Everyone who lives in USA must respect USA. Everyone who lives in Ukraine must respect Ukraine. The list can be continued until all (195) countries will be mentioned.

Tell me when you get to Palestine in that list.

Respect?  OK. Those in Galicia should respect Poland, those in Zakarpattia should respect Slovakia, those in Bukovina should respect Romania, those in Crimea should respect Russia, and those in the Donbass and other lands of Novorossiya should respect Russia.

Quote
The problems of Ukraine come from trillions of dollars, spent by Putin's dictatorship, special operations of KGB / FSB and special interests of Gazprom, etc., targeting destruction of the country.

and the Ukrainization policies, as pursued by some in the Rada and Yushenko is doing their work from them.  Make the non-Ukrainian ethnicities uneasy about Ukrainian citizenship, and they might just decide that they might just prefer to return to their countries of origin, meaning reunification.  Except of course Galicia: I doubt they want to go back to Poland, and besides, that region is behind much of the forced assimilation/Ukrainianization in the first place.


...so, since he is of Russian origin

LOL.  So is Crimea and half of Ukraine.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Ukraine-Little_Rus_1654.png/250px-Ukraine-Little_Rus_1654.png
Ukrainian Hetmanate at the time of the union with the Russian Empire, and the present day borders of Ukraine.

No way that half of Ukraine has Russian origin.

Look at the map.  That part on the East all was non-Slavic territory until the Russian empire defeated the Tartars et alia (there were religious differences too, Islam and before that Judaism).  It was basically empty (the nomads didn't settle much and pulled back), and was filled by East Slavs (the distinction at this point between Russian and Ukrainian is problematic).  It wasn't made part of Ukraine until the U.S.S.R. did that, which is also how Ukraine got those territories in the West.


[/quote]More importantly, as Heorhij correctly pointed out, many Ukrainian patriots have ethnic Russian origin.[/quote]

Yes, like Nikolay/Mykoa Kostomarov (Russian names, like the OP's priest) of Two Russian Nationalities" (Две русские народности) fame.

And many Russian (and Soviet  :o) patriots were of Ukrainian origin.

Quote
Crimean Tatars historically lived in Crimea:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/sota/krimtatar.html
http://www.euronet.nl/users/sota/krimwho.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars

Historically, they aren't Ukrainian. They are in Ukraine only because of the Russians.

Quote
The area to the west from Ukrainian Hetmanate seems very familiar to me because I grew up there. The views are as pro-Ukrainian there as you can imagene.

LOL.  No doubt about that.  It's part of the source of the problem

My first introduction to Ukrainstvo was my first love, an Ukrainka from across the border in Poland.

A fellow teacher, whose parents and wife are from Galicia, made the observation that when he watches Ukrainian TV (which he does everyday, via cable), the broadcasters all speak Ukrainian, and when they speak to people in Galicia, the people answer in Ukrainian.  But everywhere else they respond in Russian (not ever watched Ukrainian TV, so I can't comment).  He himself was raised in submission to the Vatican, but is thinking of going 'doxin', as he has no affinity to the Vatican.  He also favors Slavonic for Pan Slavic Orthodox reasons.

He told me two weeks ago that his cousin, going to the school of design at the University in Kiev, complained that students were using Russian in class.  The class told him "go home you Polak!"


Quote
I am talking really about the absolute overwhelming majority. That most certainly includes persons with various non-Ukrainian ethnic roots.
Non-ethnic Ukainians?  Not really all that many except for the Rusyns, whose identity is denied (even by my Russophile Ukrainian colleague).
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and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Online ialmisry

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2009, 09:41:44 AM »
Everyone who lives in USA must respect USA. Everyone who lives in Ukraine must respect Ukraine. The list can be continued until all (195) countries will be mentioned.

The problems of Ukraine come from trillions of dollars, spent by Putin's dictatorship, special operations of KGB / FSB and special interests of Gazprom, etc., targeting destruction of the country.

Thank you, brother. That's what I have been pointing out to Isa, all along. And to other Moskvophiles as well.

No way that half of Ukraine has Russian origin. More importantly, as Heorhij correctly pointed out, many Ukrainian patriots have ethnic Russian origin.

According to the official statistics, about 17%-18% of Ukrainian citizens are ethnic Russians. However, of course it is difficult to determine for sure, just who has what ethnic roots. Statistical analyses of this sort are based mostly on people's self-determination.

The HABIT of speaking Russian formed among very many Ukrainians when their families re-settled from rural areas to big cities. It was a survival thing, because in the urban life of the former Russian Empire, as well as in the urban life of the former USSR, the Russian language was forced upon people. All bureaucracy was hierarchichal, centralized, "piramidal," reporting to Moscow. Therefore, even though local languages were preserved, there existed schools that taught children in local languages, etc., - the success in people's lives dependend very strongly on mastering the Russian language. In addition, Russian was the only language of the Soviet Army, where virtually all young men all over the USSR had to serve for 3 years (only rather shortly prior to the disintegration of the USSR eased to 2 years). After having been immersed into the totally Russophone atmosphere for at least 2 years, the 20-year olds returned to their homes with their minds being very thoroughly Russified.

Through and through, there was this notion that only Russian is "real" and useful for anyone who wants to succeed in life, while local languages are not important. My grandmother often recalled how, in the 1920-s, her mother tried to hire young girls to help her with home chores, and these girls made it a condition of their hire that my great-grandma would, as they said, "teach them to speak Urban" ("shchoby navchyla hovoryty po-horods'komu").

It is Ukraine's great shame, great problem rooted in her colonial past that so many Ukrainians are habitual Russophones, not something that reflects ethnic "diversity" etc.

Crimean Tatars historically lived in Crimea:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/sota/krimtatar.html
http://www.euronet.nl/users/sota/krimwho.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars

Yes. And they were deported in 1944, totally, as people. Ukraine is now taking steps to cure that tragedy. The Tatars are allowed to return, actually encouraged to return to their historical homeland. There now exist flourishing, prosperous Tatar communities all over the Crimea. Tatars generally are pro-Ukrainian, pro-independence. Their Parliament ("Medzhlis") is rather supportive of the Ukrainian President and of the pro-Ukrainian political parties.

The area to the west from Ukrainian Hetmanate seems very familiar to me because I grew up there. The views are as pro-Ukrainian there as you can imagene. I am talking really about the absolute overwhelming majority. That most certainly includes persons with various non-Ukrainian ethnic roots.

Kyiv, the capital, is overwhelmingly pro-Ukrainian as well, even though you hardly even hear the Ukrainian language on its streets (again, alas, the colonial past...).

If Kiev and Crimea are so pro-Ukrainian, then why the need to force the issue?

As for the Tartars, do remember what happened because of the creation of Bosna Muslim nationality in Yugoslavia.  All what happened.

As for "colonial" that requires the projection of seperate nationalities onto the past.  That can't be done until as late as after Peter Vasilovych, Mikhail Lomonosov and Pushkin. And then there's Khrushchev....
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Stanislav

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2009, 04:33:50 PM »

If Kiev and Crimea are so pro-Ukrainian, then why the need to force the issue?
Crimean Tatars (a small minority on their own former land) are pro-Ukrainian. Crimea is strongly anti-Ukrainian.
Igumen Feognost (Pushkov) is, of course, Russian, and pro-Russian politically (I wouldn't know how anti-Ukrainian). But that should be off-topic, and has nothing to do with his suspension.

I read his blog on a few occasions. Father Feognost acts like a jerk online. I think he exibits a "mladostaretz" problem - elevated sense of self-importance he derives from his Priesthood. Apparently he was ordained very young (against Canons) and, having intellectual and some organisational talents, was showered with positions of relative responsibility, as well as advancement in rank. His bishops (he serves under two bishops simultaneously - don't ask me how) turned a blind eye to his online behavior (apparently he's more reasonable offline). His suspension is probably because he was being a jerk to wrong people - a priest of some authority in the Diocese.

Offline Stanislav

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2009, 04:42:46 PM »

Look at the map.  That part on the East all was non-Slavic territory until the Russian empire defeated the Tartars et alia (there were religious differences too, Islam and before that Judaism).  It was basically empty (the nomads didn't settle much and pulled back), and was filled by East Slavs (the distinction at this point between Russian and Ukrainian is problematic).  It wasn't made part of Ukraine until the U.S.S.R. did that, which is also how Ukraine got those territories in the West.
At which point? 1918? Territories in question (except Crimea) were comfortably ethnic Ukrainian - until the Holodomor. So were a few parts of what is now Russia ("Slobozhanschyna"). Ukrainians did the settlement and much of the "defeating of Tartars".
Again, all this is huge off-topic here.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian Priest suspended for posting on LiveJournal
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2009, 02:35:34 PM »


Apparently, Russia believes this priest to be Russian, not Ukrainian.

 ;)

http://profy.com/2009/06/19/russian-orthodox-church-urges-priests-to-behave-properly-online/

It's actually a rather insightful article about proper Web behavior.  It's aimed at priests, however, I think it holds true for all Web users.



Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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