Author Topic: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP  (Read 1325 times)

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Offline mike

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London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« on: June 16, 2009, 06:23:19 AM »
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Moscow, June 15, Interfax - The UK High Court has confirmed the belonging of the London Cathedral to the Sourozh Diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church.

The "judgment confirms that the Church should continue to have the benefit and use of such assets, including the London Cathedral," the Moscow Patriarchate website said on Monday.

"The judgment also recognizes that the Church is a thriving community, that it has in recent years enjoyed a substantial increase in membership," the website said. "The cathedral will hold its usual daily services at which all the faithful are very welcome to attend."

The Crown Prosecution Service issued a similar judgment in February.

The dispute began with the switch of acting head of the Sourozh diocese Bishop Vasily (Osborne) from the Moscow to Constantinople Patriarchate. The Holy Synod of the Constantinople Church accepted Bishop Vasily and appointed him a vicar.

In 2007 some clerics and flock members of the London Cathedral decided to leave the Sourozh diocese together with Bishop Vasily. They said that the Cathedral in the center of London belonged to them. The court dispute lasted for almost two years.

Interfax

Offline SDMPNS

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Re: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2009, 08:06:45 AM »
Did the EP just get his hand slapped?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2009, 08:34:44 AM »
Slava Bogu!

Now let's work on that Vichy episcopal assmebly in France....
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Offline AntonI

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Re: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2009, 11:33:27 AM »
Unless I am completely wrong, the EP has nothing to do with the case which was brought by former parishioners of the Cathedral.

So, whilst you may not like the EP, you can't blame him for everything which is happening on this planet...
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2009, 12:13:20 PM »
Unless I am completely wrong, the EP has nothing to do with the case which was brought by former parishioners of the Cathedral.

So, whilst you may not like the EP, you can't blame him for everything which is happening on this planet...

The schismatic bishop, whom the EP took with open arms, was trying to take the Cathedral with him.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2009, 12:37:13 PM »
A good decision. Allowing Bishop Basil to keep the cathedral would have caused havoc.

Offline AntonI

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Re: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2009, 01:31:44 PM »
Unless I am mistaken Bishop Basil has nothing to do with it.  If not, apologies...but in any case, I frankly don't care about this endless contest between the MP and EP as to who has the biggest crosier   language edited for content.  Please Anton in the future restrain from such crass remarks on oc.net, a Christian message board.  -username! section moderator...   
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 05:25:01 PM by username! »
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2009, 03:10:03 PM »
Unless I am mistaken Bishop Basil has nothing to do with it.  If not, apologies...but in any case, I frankly don't care about this endless contest between the MP and EP as to who has the biggest crosier   language edited for content.  Please Anton in the future restrain from such crass remarks on oc.net, a Christian message board.  -username! section moderator...   


Chuckle...how dare someone be reasonable. Oh, my...
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 01:43:38 AM by username! »
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Offline Starlight

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Re: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 11:59:39 PM »
Very sad indeed. I hope the court in UK will eventually reconsider the decision. His Grace Bishop Basil (Osbourne), whom I know personally and respect a lot, by all means should have the authority over the Cathedral.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2009, 12:12:37 AM »
Very sad indeed. I hope the court in UK will eventually reconsider the decision. His Grace Bishop Basil (Osbourne), whom I know personally and respect a lot, by all means should have the authority over the Cathedral.


why?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Starlight

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Re: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2009, 12:39:19 AM »
Very sad indeed. I hope the court in UK will eventually reconsider the decision. His Grace Bishop Basil (Osbourne), whom I know personally and respect a lot, by all means should have the authority over the Cathedral.


why?

A citation from a very long article here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-battle-over-britains-orthodox-church-1606233.html

The court will find things more complex. The present parish was set up in 1934, and its 1944 trust deed was designed to allow for a change of jurisdiction. It was that which allowed the Parish Council to vote, in 1946, in a mood of post-war euphoria, to join the Moscow Patriarchate. What the court must decide is whether the switch back to Constantinople of just half the community allows the trustees to choose which way to go.

What heightens the sense of grievance of Bishop Basil's supporters is that it was they who bought the cathedral in 1978. "We raised all the money ourselves," says Ruth Nares. "Elderly White Russians sold their gold teeth to pay for it. The rest of the community worked tirelessly to find the money, and to fund a restoration programme – only now to find ourselves homeless and all because Moscow wants to extend its tentacles."

Emotions are high. Tamara Dragadzay likens what has happened to the way groups of foreign Muslims have tried to take over certain British mosques. There are parallels with the infiltration of Militant Tendency into the Labour Party in the 1980s. There is talk of cuckoos and nests.

"I just don't recognise that," says Adrian Dean, a more recent convert. "No one asked Bishop Basil and his supporters to go," says Moscow's lawyer, Paul Hauser. "They just decided to leave of their own volition. No one has slammed the door in anyone's face. They are always perfectly free to return." But no one in the new Vicariate believes that. They suspect that what goes on behind the iconostasis is something that Moscow would prefer to keep from public view.

END OF CITATION.

The aforementioned trust deed existed with the blessing of Hierarchy. At least, Metropolitan Anthony (Bloom) of blessed memory, did not cancel or overwrite it.

I personally know Bishop Basil (Osbourne), an effective leader and a spiritual man, as well as some other persons in his lead team. They are nice people with good missionary goals.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 12:42:36 AM by Starlight »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: London Russian Cathedral won't go to the EP
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2009, 01:26:15 AM »
Very sad indeed. I hope the court in UK will eventually reconsider the decision. His Grace Bishop Basil (Osbourne), whom I know personally and respect a lot, by all means should have the authority over the Cathedral.


why?

A citation from a very long article here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-battle-over-britains-orthodox-church-1606233.html

The court will find things more complex. The present parish was set up in 1934, and its 1944 trust deed was designed to allow for a change of jurisdiction. It was that which allowed the Parish Council to vote, in 1946, in a mood of post-war euphoria, to join the Moscow Patriarchate. What the court must decide is whether the switch back to Constantinople of just half the community allows the trustees to choose which way to go.

What heightens the sense of grievance of Bishop Basil's supporters is that it was they who bought the cathedral in 1978. "We raised all the money ourselves," says Ruth Nares. "Elderly White Russians sold their gold teeth to pay for it. The rest of the community worked tirelessly to find the money, and to fund a restoration programme – only now to find ourselves homeless and all because Moscow wants to extend its tentacles."

Emotions are high. Tamara Dragadzay likens what has happened to the way groups of foreign Muslims have tried to take over certain British mosques. There are parallels with the infiltration of Militant Tendency into the Labour Party in the 1980s. There is talk of cuckoos and nests.

"I just don't recognise that," says Adrian Dean, a more recent convert. "No one asked Bishop Basil and his supporters to go," says Moscow's lawyer, Paul Hauser. "They just decided to leave of their own volition. No one has slammed the door in anyone's face. They are always perfectly free to return." But no one in the new Vicariate believes that. They suspect that what goes on behind the iconostasis is something that Moscow would prefer to keep from public view.
END OF CITATION.

The aforementioned trust deed existed with the blessing of Hierarchy. At least, Metropolitan Anthony (Bloom) of blessed memory, did not cancel or overwrite it.

I personally know Bishop Basil (Osbourne), an effective leader and a spiritual man, as well as some other persons in his lead team. They are nice people with good missionary goals.

Worthy of Provoslav09.

The Cathedral is where the bishop has his cathedra, or throne. It belongs to the diocese, it is not his personal property.  Now I do recalll the EP complaining when the Archbishop of Athens started having Churches in terrotories the EP claimes as his diocese.

Moscow didn't extend its tencles: as it said, in 1944 Russians returned to the omophorion of the Patriarch of Russia. As part of the Russian diocese, it belongs to the Russian Church.

Now the EP likes to twist canons, and does not feel bound by them: witness the uncanonical embrace of the renegade Russian bishop.  But he would be rather upset if parishes decided whether they wanted to be under him or the Church of Greece.  In fact, as I mentioned above, he got quite mad.

So if the bishops and congregants in question feel they want to lay aside the canons and run off to the EP, they are free to do so.  They are just not free to compel the rest of us to applaud their actions, or follow the dictates of their revison of the canonical norms, including taking Cathedrals into schism.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth