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Poll
Question: So, just where IS The South?
Only the Deep South is really Southron - 14 (21.9%)
The Deep South and parts of MO and KY - 6 (9.4%)
The Deep South, TX and maybe OK - 4 (6.3%)
All of the above - 27 (42.2%)
I'm a Yankee and don't know too much - 13 (20.3%)
Total Voters: 64

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Author Topic: Poll: A Question about The South  (Read 11097 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2009, 10:13:15 PM »

I'm from SC.  Hubby is from the midwest, but his family is all Southern migrants with a lot of the south still in them.  I have to agree with the first map...there is THE South, then the Southern states, then those that are Southern Lite.

The one mistake I see is including Maryland in there.  PA has more Southerners than Maryland.

Well, Maryland *is* south and west of the Mason-Dixon Line and it had military units on both the Northern and Southern sides of the Civil War and "Maryland, My Maryland" is still the state song that calls Abraham Lincoln a "despot"... so it's a ummm mixed state.  How's that?   Wink

I can accept that.  I just know that nowadays people refer to it as the Socialist Republic of Maryland which is just so against everything the South stood for.  Glad to hear it isn't all like that Wink
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« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2009, 10:42:23 PM »

Here's another fun map of Dixie Land.  Smiley




OK is absent, I see...y'all talk about part of MO being "Little Dixie"; the S.E. quadrant of OK bears that name, too, for the exact same reason.
Bless their hearts, I don't have any id'e why they left OK off that there map.  


I never did understand this talk about what exactly constitutes the "South".  Roll Eyes

History -- the above flag, really...

Accent(s) -- which you get a good chance to sample, as we tend to have the "gift of gab."  Either that, or nothing more than a, "Yyyyyyyep."

Food

Music

Southern climes

Manners and mannerisms, chivalry (boarders on chauvanism at times) and hospitality (along with the requisite dose of utter hypocrisy and insincerity that goes along with it) -- We have a saying around here: "We may be about to go out and shoot each other in a duel to the death...but, please, let's not dispense with the pleasantries!"

I dasn't dare forgit our expressions;

 "Gimme some sugar!"
 "Too big fer his/her britches."
 "That dog don't hunt!"
 "She threw a hissy fit."
 "Fat/Full as a tick."
 "Sug'" (short for 'Sugar', what my grandparents called each other)
 "Nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full 'o rockin' chairs."
 "If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump it's butt a-hoppin!"
 "Purty as a daisy in the sun."
 "Plumb tuckered out."
 We also know the distance between "Pert near" and "Way off yonder."
 "Fixin' to"
 "Might could" and "Usetacould"
 "What in the Sam Hill?!?
 "Crooked as a dog's layg"

I could go on and on, but these are a few of my favorites.  Plus, as David said, the gift of gab (and wit) is purty common 'round these parts.
 
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« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2009, 11:21:25 PM »

^

Officer and a Gentleman?

Not quite... But finishing the quote wouldn't be part of polite conversation around here.
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« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2009, 11:26:55 PM »

^

Officer and a Gentleman?

Not quite... But finishing the quote wouldn't be part of polite conversation around here.

'Course, there's the okie version of that joke:

Q: What's the ONLY good thing to come out of Texas?

A: I-35, headin' North.
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« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2009, 01:39:44 AM »

I've been to the southernmost point in the United States...Key West, Fla. Culturally, it's more like Cuba than the south. And Miami is its own city altogether.

Then again, I've been to central Indiana, where folks proudly point out that it's "the buckle of the Bible Belt!"

My point is...that line is a lot fuzzier than some folks would care to admit. You can't draw the line neatly based on what happened in 1865.

As for Mo., north of I-70, it's the Midwestern Corn Belt state of Missouri. South of I-70 it's Muhzerrah. And as  for St. Louis...that's a tough one. Maybe it's western Illinois? Wink
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« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2009, 09:35:58 AM »

St Louis is a mix of turn of the century immigrants (both centuries Wink ) and migrated southerners, particularly Mississippi, Arkansas, Southern Missouri (Missourah), and Southern Illinois.
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« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2009, 10:10:56 AM »

ya'll are funny! I think 'southern' is a state of mind these days. Even some historically southern states are divided anymore. IN VA, the closer you get to DC the more Northern the folks are. There are no more genteel ways and pleasantness from about Charlottesville up.  The maps you guys use would probably not reflect things like that.
Though I was born in Northern CA mountains, I have been in the south so long I have to call it home. Enough that I have put down roots and made quite a large family here. When we travel and can't find sweet tea, things go badly. But it would be 20+ years before my southern friends saw a Fresca here, so it goes both ways. Now I can't go anywhere without at least some accent coming out, only topped by my texan friends.  As far as Missouri, no. "Misery" is NOT southern in any way shape or form. And they mock those that ask for sweet tea, so there can be no mercy for them.
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« Reply #52 on: July 03, 2009, 06:48:32 PM »

Eh, the Missourians I know all loved their Sweet Tea!  Maybe it depends on where in MO you're from.  St Louis = sweet tea.
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« Reply #53 on: July 04, 2009, 06:57:02 AM »

The Confederates invaded Brazil and are still there today. The Confederacy lives on! Shocked

Quote
Emperor Dom Pedro II of Brazil had a lively appreciation for the contributions that science and technology could make to society. He was interested in expanding his country's primary commodities, including making Brazil a major cotton producer. After the defeat of the South in the U.S. Civil War, he invited diehard confederates who had been successful in cultivating the South's cotton to come to Brazil. Between 1867 and 1871, a time when slavery was still legal in Brazil, at least 3,000 Southern confederate families passed through the port of Rio de Janeiro. About 80 percent of the confederates returned to the United States, but one successful settlement - Americana - founded by Colonel William Hutchinson Norris of Mobile, Alabama, remains to this day.

Indeed.

This past week I took my sons to the Confederate White House in Richmond.  Visiting there were a soccer team from Brazil, some of which were Confederate Brazilians.
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« Reply #54 on: July 04, 2009, 07:02:16 AM »

Southern Ohio is also, "the south", at least culturally, or it was up until 1998, when I moved North. To me, "southern" is a culture, mind set, and a bit of dialect thrown in. However, "the south" is not monolithic, as I've always seen "the deep south" as quite different than say, Kentucky and even Virginia. (my mom was born and raised in the Shenedoah Valley...and yes I know I probably misspelled that, but don't tell my mom...LOL!)

If anyone doubts that Southern Ohio is part of the "south" culturally, then you've obviously never been to Hillsboro, or "little Kentucky"...(or as other's call it, Dayton...lol!)..of course from speaking with friends back home, things have changed drastically over the last 10 years or so, so who knows....it may be VERY different now. It may be more like Cleveland, which is northern Ohio and not really very "southern"....at all. There seems to be a divide that basically runs along I-70, but even that's not totally accurate....


For anyone that grew up in Southern Ohio, if you don't think you're "southern" move to Minnesota or Wisconsin....trust me, you'll find out no one can  understand a word you say, (don't worry, you can't understand THEM either so it's all fair) that they've never heard of "biscuits and gravy" and when you tell them you're from "Ohio" they think you're saying "Iowa"....

I even still have my accent, to a degree, and even my priest still jokes about me having a southern accent after 11 years. Smiley Of course I  say "washing machine", which as my parents will tell is wrong...it's "warshing machine"....so I don't have the drawl that they do. Smiley


But Ohio South is definitely not the same thing as Georgia or Alabama South, but it is the same as Ketucky south...partly because so many people came from Kentucky...(hence the term, little kentucky) Of course you have true Ohio settlers that go back a LONG way, but are still pretty southern compared to true Northerners.....

As others have said, America is losing this cultural diversity and it is a little sad, because while I would never eat Lutefisk or go golfing in a lightening storm, (you betchya) I find it amazing to live in a culture that does weird things like that, and yet consider us all equally American. Smiley (just a little joke at my Northern friends, since every year there are at least two commercials joking about "Sven and Ole" fishing or golfing in a lightening storm on the radio)


Yes it's all very confusing, but quite fun.

And no, I don't recall most people back home eating grits very much, but go to the U.P. of MI on vacation, and people will ask "where are you from, Alabama?"...








Funny, when you were posting this, I was on my way through Columbus.  We stopped for dinner and a couple of other things, and I had to ask myself, "Did we cross the border yet down south?"
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« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2009, 06:09:27 PM »

As far as Missouri, no. "Misery" is NOT southern in any way shape or form. And they mock those that ask for sweet tea, so there can be no mercy for them.

A NorCal gal with a psuedo Southern accent and ... they mock you?  Say it ain't so!  Cheesy  Just teasin' ya sister.  BTW, just how long has it been since you've been to Missourah (not Missouri ... Missourah)?  There are pockets (some quite large) here and there of folks who identify themselves as Southern here.  And yes, we love us some sweet tea!
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« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2009, 06:50:22 PM »

Funny, when you were posting this, I was on my way through Columbus.  We stopped for dinner and a couple of other things, and I had to ask myself, "Did we cross the border yet down south?"

Who cares as long as there's good BBQ!!!

(unlike here in NE where they brag about their "chicken BBQ"...there is nothing "BBQ" about their grilled chicken)
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« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2009, 07:10:34 PM »

ya'll are funny! I think 'southern' is a state of mind these days. Even some historically southern states are divided anymore. IN VA, the closer you get to DC the more Northern the folks are. There are no more genteel ways and pleasantness from about Charlottesville up.  The maps you guys use would probably not reflect things like that.
Though I was born in Northern CA mountains, I have been in the south so long I have to call it home. Enough that I have put down roots and made quite a large family here. When we travel and can't find sweet tea, things go badly. But it would be 20+ years before my southern friends saw a Fresca here, so it goes both ways. Now I can't go anywhere without at least some accent coming out, only topped by my texan friends.  As far as Missouri, no. "Misery" is NOT southern in any way shape or form. And they mock those that ask for sweet tea, so there can be no mercy for them.

I can vouch for Northern Virginia being much more Northern.  I lived there for a year, and it felt anything but Southern.  Some people joke that it really belongs in Maryland.  Actually, kinda funny, it was only when I moved back north to south-central PA that I started seeing confederate flags again.  Just down the road from me flies the Bonnie Blue Flag, and often enough I see trucks with the Confederate flag.  I notice that people with whom I've spoken where I live in PA tend to view the Confederate cause in a positive or on par level with the Northern cause.  Copperheads basically. 

As far as manners go, people here are more Northern it seems.  Lots of Dutch influence. 
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« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2009, 07:42:56 PM »

ya'll are funny! I think 'southern' is a state of mind these days. Even some historically southern states are divided anymore. IN VA, the closer you get to DC the more Northern the folks are. There are no more genteel ways and pleasantness from about Charlottesville up.  The maps you guys use would probably not reflect things like that.
Though I was born in Northern CA mountains, I have been in the south so long I have to call it home. Enough that I have put down roots and made quite a large family here. When we travel and can't find sweet tea, things go badly. But it would be 20+ years before my southern friends saw a Fresca here, so it goes both ways. Now I can't go anywhere without at least some accent coming out, only topped by my texan friends.  As far as Missouri, no. "Misery" is NOT southern in any way shape or form. And they mock those that ask for sweet tea, so there can be no mercy for them.

I can vouch for Northern Virginia being much more Northern.  I lived there for a year, and it felt anything but Southern.  Some people joke that it really belongs in Maryland.  Actually, kinda funny, it was only when I moved back north to south-central PA that I started seeing confederate flags again.  Just down the road from me flies the Bonnie Blue Flag, and often enough I see trucks with the Confederate flag.  I notice that people with whom I've spoken where I live in PA tend to view the Confederate cause in a positive or on par level with the Northern cause.  Copperheads basically. 

As far as manners go, people here are more Northern it seems.  Lots of Dutch influence. 

We noticed that also.
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« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2009, 08:01:37 PM »

Do any (many) of you who posted on this thread actually live in the South?  If not, why don't you come down here and see what it's like in this section of the South?  We have a very nice parish, Christ the Saviour in McComb, Mississippi and we love to have guests. Not many Orthodox around these parts.  We're about 100 miles north of New Orleans and there are accommodations available for anyone who is passing through or would like to visit.
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« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2009, 08:33:52 PM »

Do any (many) of you who posted on this thread actually live in the South?  If not, why don't you come down here and see what it's like in this section of the South?  We have a very nice parish, Christ the Saviour in McComb, Mississippi and we love to have guests. Not many Orthodox around these parts.  We're about 100 miles north of New Orleans and there are accommodations available for anyone who is passing through or would like to visit.

I was born in the deep south, spent my early years there, most of my family is there.  Get me on the phone with a sister or get me big-sistering my a brother and my accent comes out strong and clear Wink
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« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2009, 04:40:29 PM »

I love almost everything about the South except for the humidity!  When I visit my Tennessee relatives, it's not too bad.  But when I visit my relatives down in Louisiana, it reminds me of here in the Ozarks in August when the temp and humidity level are both in the upper 90's!  The air gets so "heavy and wet" that you can almost cut it with a knife at times!  Whew!
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« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2009, 11:32:50 AM »

Maybe that's why my father, the Virginian, decided to stay in Montana.  It's nice and dry there most of the time.  You don't need to chew the air before breathing it in the summer and when you walk outside sometimes during June, July or August, it doesn't feel like you've been wrapped up on a heavy wool army blanket that just came out of the dryer only half way through the cycle. 

Richard Thompson the cartoonist does a weekly called "Richard's Poor Almanac".  I've saved one that describes some of the words used for "Hot and Humid" weather in the DC/MD/VA area.  Some are:

"Sticky"- Lawn chairs, car seats and underwear become lethally adhesive.  Spatula sales go through the roof" the picture has a woman with a spatula saying "Sure is sticky" while the man stuck to a lawn chair replies "Just get me out of here."

"Muggy - Your basic hot and humid day. The Atmosphere transmutes to bus exhaust and normally stable objects run like brie"  with a scene of the Washington Monument bent in half and melting while a passing plane has its wings drooping.
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« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2009, 02:58:04 PM »

Aaaooh! Dude! Sorry, I thought this was Southern California!

I will have to say that I love some Deep South food though. I find a good slow-smoked ""hawg" or Brisket is about the best stuff that ever emerged from a puddle of grease though. And there is one dish from the south which I can not abstain from - Creole Shrimp on some Mashed Potatoes! Wink put it right here...
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« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2009, 02:07:54 AM »

I'm from Canada. If your below the 49th parallel, you're southern redneck.

Bless yer hearts. Grin
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« Reply #65 on: August 24, 2009, 11:10:19 PM »

Here's an article about a cherished symbol of Southern pride and culture I thought all y'all might find enlightening.  It's presented in an articulate and thoughtful manner.

Confederate Flag: History Vs. Hysteria

For the average non-Southerner, like most of you, the continued affection residents of Dixie display toward the controversial Battle Flag can be baffling. If African-Americans are so incensed by the banner, why not juts fold it up and put it away? Why indeed? The war has been over for 137 years. Certain unsavory groups groups of a racist stripe seem unduly attached to the symbol as well. No one in the print or electronic media seems willing to come forward and offer a counterpoint. Is there another point of view after all?

http://thefloridapatriot.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/confederate-flag-history-vs-hysteria/
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« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2009, 12:47:55 AM »

Speaking of blacks and the south

http://www.37thtexas.org/html/BlkHist.html

interesting
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« Reply #67 on: June 11, 2010, 05:38:47 AM »

The South refers to either the slave states during the civil war or the Confederate States at that time.
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« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2010, 07:17:30 AM »

Since this thread has been resurrected...

It's funny that Northern Pines had brought up (once upon a time) how "Southern-like" S Ohio is.  Funny in that the lands of Ohio were first promised as payment to George Washington and his men when the former was still a militia commander in VA.  He surveyed the land just W of the Ohio River himself, and had ideas for where his plot was going to be.
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« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2010, 07:19:31 AM »

Southern Ohio IS southern like. Look at a map and alot of it is below Pennsylvania. The Mason Dixon line starts around PA and then makes a BIG dip around southern Ohio.
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« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2010, 10:40:06 AM »

Historically speaking the "Mason-Dixon Line" does not have anything to do with Ohio.  It was a surveyed line that set the border between Pennsylvania/Delaware on one side and Maryland with a small part of what is now West Virginia on the other to settle matters between the those colonies.  It goes south along the Delaware-Maryland border on the Eastern Shore in particular.  Therefore here in Maryland I am living in the "South" by those lights.  There is some very interesting information about the MDL at the "Mason & Dixon Line Preservation Partnership" website:  http://www.mdlpp.org/ including photos of some of the marker stones.

Ebor
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« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2010, 12:07:12 PM »

Southern Ohio IS southern like. Look at a map and alot of it is below Pennsylvania. The Mason Dixon line starts around PA and then makes a BIG dip around southern Ohio.

I struck by that when we crossed that last year.  Btw, southern IL (which had slavery in a limited form) the same.
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« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2010, 12:12:31 PM »

OK is not part of the south?


I guess those of us from the Southwest don't know much about the south.
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« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2010, 01:01:18 PM »

The CSA included all "southern" states except Maryland and West Virginia, and extended as far as Texas in the west.  Kansas was with the Union, while Missouri was with the Confederacy; Oklahoma was only a territory then, as was everything west of the Great Plains except for California, which was with the Union.  Rather a bit of a mess, I'd say.
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« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2010, 02:29:22 PM »

Yes.

Further, none of the answers in the poll are right.

"The Deep South and parts of MO and KY"
is the closest answer, but it leaves out Virginia and I think North Carolina, which belong to the south even more than Kentucky. Slavery and the confederacy were much stronger in North Carolina and Virginia than Kentucky, I believe. But they are not part of "the deep south."
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« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2010, 03:47:42 PM »

Maryland now is heavily contaminated by immigration (including my NC-apostate father: "you couldn't pay me to live there" he said of his native Charlotte) but the general rule is that only maybe parts of Southern Maryland (which does NOT include the Eastern Shore) were originally southern. Western Maryland and the area north of Balto. is more allied with Pa., as you can see form the heavy German input in the cooking among other things. The Eastern Shore and some of the bay area are a whole subculture to themselves.

Texas, on the other hand, is TEXAS.
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« Reply #76 on: June 11, 2010, 04:02:41 PM »

MD was completely a slave state and south of the Mason Dixon line, but remained on the union side in the civil war. So it is debatable whether it is southern or not.

Texas was a slave state and was in the confederacy. I understand they have presumptions about special rights to independence, however it is still a state, and it had slavery and belonged to the CSA, so it is southern.
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« Reply #77 on: June 11, 2010, 04:50:15 PM »

MD was completely a slave state and south of the Mason Dixon line, but remained on the union side in the civil war. So it is debatable whether it is southern or not.

Texas was a slave state and was in the confederacy. I understand they have presumptions about special rights to independence, however it is still a state, and it had slavery and belonged to the CSA, so it is southern.

There's more to the south than slavery. For one thing, they had slaves up north too (NY, for instance, didn't fully abolish it until July 4, 1827, New Jersey until 1847 (and then only in name, indentured servants continued until the 13th Amendment), Delaware until the passage of the 13th Amendment).
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« Reply #78 on: June 11, 2010, 04:54:31 PM »

I would like to propose the theory that the National Road establishes the line between north and south. If you really study it from a sociological and anthropological view you would notice a mark difference between those that live directly north and south of US 40.
While there are many instances where this observation is correct, I strongly hesitate to fully agree.  Anything west of Missouri (except Texas and Oklahoma) is automatically excluded.  Also Indiana, Ohio and New Jersey (three other states that are disected by US 40) are also excluded.  I recant my earlier statements regarding southern IL, with the caveat that it is only slightly culturally Southern.  But it should also be said that no part of Illinois has ever been historically considered part of The South.

Oh?

http://www.canadiana.org/citm/_images/common/nf-1759-e.jpg

http://jvanloo203.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/virginiaswesterncounties1776.jpg  

http://www.lva.virginia.gov/exhibits/political/images/1783_Kitchin_Map.jpg
Map of the United States in North America.
By Thomas Kitchin Sr. 1783

I just had to add that in March I saw an earlier version of the last map (in reproduction) in the Capitol of Williamsburg, which was the capital of Illinois at the time of the American War of Independence.
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« Reply #79 on: June 11, 2010, 05:12:17 PM »

You are right, the South doesn't mean any place where-ever slavery was allowed at any time. It means slave states at the time of the Civil War , or the CSA states, technically speaking.

You could make the definition more narrow or broad, but this is what I believe the term technically means.
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« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2010, 05:18:19 PM »

Oklahoma was only a territory then...

Yes, but all five of the Civilized Tribes sided w/the South - Stand Watie, the leader of the Cherokee, was the last Confederate leader to surrender (almost 2 mos. after Appomattox).  After the war, it became a favorite hideout for unreconstructed southerners.  Definitely should be considered a southern loyalist.

Texas, on the other hand, is TEXAS.

Indeed.   Grin

I understand [Texas has] presumptions about special rights to independence...

No more special than those of any other state.  We are beholden to the Constitution (as opposed to the president or other states) of the United States, but our Constitution states that "All political power is inherent in the people ... they have at all times the inalienable right to alter their government in such manner as they might think proper."  This, to me, includes talk of independence, and is consonant with the US Declaration of Independence, to wit:

  • Authority of the government is derived from the consent of the governed
  • "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends [i.e., protecting life, liberty, and property], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government"
  • "when a long train of abuses and usurpations...evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

We are southern...but also western...but mostly Texan.
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« Reply #81 on: June 11, 2010, 05:27:53 PM »

If the South had won the War.
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« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2010, 05:29:38 PM »

Quote
So, just where IS The South?
Only the Deep South is really Southron
The Deep South and parts of MO and KY
The Deep South, TX and maybe OK
All of the above
I'm a Yankee and don't know too much

A correct answer would be "The Deep South, MO, KY, and VA."
I am a Yankee ("US Citizen" AND "northerner") and don't know too much about the Universe. I know the correct answer to the question, however, the South is very small compared to everything else in the world, so the best answer is the last one.
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« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2010, 03:47:25 AM »

Anything dark green in this:




I agree with this, except I would exclude Virginia and west Texas. If it doesn't have an SEC school, it ain't the South yall! Wink (But I still count North Carolina and parts of Texas.)


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« Reply #84 on: June 12, 2010, 11:40:01 AM »

I would say that West NE is culturally similar.
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« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2010, 10:26:34 AM »

I agree with this, except I would exclude Virginia


My father, born and raised in Virginia though living in Montana for over 50 years now, would certainly disagree with that.  Virginia is southern.
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« Reply #86 on: June 14, 2010, 09:36:42 AM »

I would say that West NE is culturally similar.
I definitely disagree. Nebraska is definitely upper Midwest, closer culturally to Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.
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« Reply #87 on: June 14, 2010, 10:08:06 AM »

I'm from Canada. If your below the 49th parallel, you're southern redneck.

Fifty-four forty or fight! Grin
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« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2010, 10:11:12 AM »

Virginia is southern, but Northern Virginia is an alien land, the bastard child of New York and Alabama. Nebraska is about as midwestern as it ever gets.
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« Reply #89 on: June 14, 2010, 10:57:24 AM »


If it doesn't have an SEC school, it ain't the South yall! Wink

Selam

That may be change soon. There is speculation that the SEC and the PAC 12 will swallow up the ACC and the Big 12. There is a hope that many ACC teams will join the ACC, as will schools from the old Confederacy, such as Texas. However, some say that Texas may go to Pac 10 because its administration feels the SEC's academic standards are not high enough. I think that that is pretentious rhubarb but the faculty of UT at Austin are just as "West Coast" as UCLA and the lot.  
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