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Poll
Question: So, just where IS The South?
Only the Deep South is really Southron - 14 (21.9%)
The Deep South and parts of MO and KY - 6 (9.4%)
The Deep South, TX and maybe OK - 4 (6.3%)
All of the above - 27 (42.2%)
I'm a Yankee and don't know too much - 13 (20.3%)
Total Voters: 64

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Author Topic: Poll: A Question about The South  (Read 10884 times) Average Rating: 0
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GabrieltheCelt
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« on: June 14, 2009, 08:56:52 PM »

 So I thought I'd create a fun poll about The Southland.  It's meant to be fun, so all my Northern friends- please don't be upset about my Yankee question (after all, I didn't say D**n Yankee Smiley)  I posit that question #4 is the correct answer.

Here's a few reasons why I believe so-
The Modern Definition of The South


and also- Southern American English
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Southern_American_English.svg

and- Upland South


And then there is the dialect page (scroll down to to 'General Southern' to (18) 'Ozark')
http://www.geocities.com/yvain.geo/dialects.html

I reckin this hyars mah reasonin' fer parts of 'ol Mizzourah to be included.

What say all y'all?
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 09:00:51 PM »

Gabriel, your options do not include me, because I was not born and raised in the USA.
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 09:06:44 PM »

Heorhij (and all y'all not born in the US but live in the US): feel free to vote.  Wink
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2009, 09:07:15 PM »

You forgot to add parts of West Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, and southern Illinois. laugh
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2009, 09:17:15 PM »

You forgot to add parts of West Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, and southern Illinois. laugh

Ha!  You got me on WV!  Maryland and Delaware?  Yep, parts for sure.  Southern IL?  Not in a million years!  Also, I wouldn't consider northern Missouri Southern per se (especially not St. Louis.)  But, the northern center of the state is culturally known as Little Dixie from Southron migrants.
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2009, 09:27:37 PM »

Heorhij (and all y'all not born in the US but live in the US): feel free to vote.  Wink

But how can I? You know, I have a very ambiguous feelings about the South. On the one hand, I think that there is a lot more of the genuine "human" culture (authentic human culture, not the "culture" made up by later politically correct scholars of whatever is they call "culture") over there, in this small-town or even plain rural Southern parts of the USA than there is in the white American urban communities of California or Western Washington where I used to live in 1990-1998 (at least a lot more than I noticed). But that's just me, a furriner...
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2009, 10:17:59 PM »

I would like to propose the theory that the National Road establishes the line between north and south. If you really study it from a sociological and anthropological view you would notice a mark difference between those that live directly north and south of US 40.

I think some questions need to be asked what makes a person a southerner.

Is it just a dialect?
Is it a preference for Sweet Tea?
Is it an understanding of how to eat grits?

In reality many of the regional traits of disappearing in America because of the growing city centric and the proliferation of television watching that is making unique dialects disappear at a rapid pace.
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 01:51:54 AM »

Anything dark green in this:

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« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2009, 02:20:52 AM »

Gabriel, your options do not include me, because I was not born and raised in the USA.

Southern Russia? (sorry, couldn't resist).
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« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2009, 02:34:33 AM »

You forgot to add parts of West Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, and southern Illinois. laugh

Ha!  You got me on WV!  Maryland and Delaware?  Yep, parts for sure.  Southern IL?  Not in a million years!  Also, I wouldn't consider northern Missouri Southern per se (especially not St. Louis.)  But, the northern center of the state is culturally known as Little Dixie from Southron migrants.

What's wrong with Little Egypt?

From the orgainization of Illiniois Country, it was known as Upper Lousiana, governed from New Orleans.  The capital when England took it, Kaskaskia, is on a bayou.

When the English took Illinois, it became a county of Virginia, and the bulk of the English who moved in, including the governors etc, were from Maryland.

And not to get belabor the dark side of Southern history, slavery was legal in southern Illinois.
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« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2009, 02:39:13 AM »

Dear GabrieltheCelt,


All I can say is, "git'er done!"   Grin
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« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2009, 02:11:00 PM »

This here's what I reckon is the southern part of America:

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« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2009, 02:19:11 PM »

I'm a Yankee through and through (although my mom spent some formative years in Malibus, AL and Ft. Walton Beach, FL); however, I wouldn't even dare to call FL southern, and Texas is its own thing ("Tex-Mex-South-an" - hey, at least I didn't quote Full Metal Jacket on the subject of being a Texan).
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« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2009, 04:29:36 PM »

Don't know much about the South, all the information I get (Concerning the South) comes from that very educational program called "Cops"  police
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« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2009, 04:33:41 PM »

I wouldn't even dare to call FL southern

Northern Florida is very Southern. I can't think of the word Tallahasee without a Southern accent.

Ft. Lauderdale & Boca Raton are actually annexs of Long Island, and Miami is an extension of Cuba.
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« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2009, 04:38:53 PM »

This here's what I reckon is the southern part of America:



 Tongue  Ask the Spanish teacher what he thinks the Southern bits of America are... LOL.
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« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2009, 10:40:25 PM »

I would like to propose the theory that the National Road establishes the line between north and south. If you really study it from a sociological and anthropological view you would notice a mark difference between those that live directly north and south of US 40.
While there are many instances where this observation is correct, I strongly hesitate to fully agree.  Anything west of Missouri (except Texas and Oklahoma) is automatically excluded.  Also Indiana, Ohio and New Jersey (three other states that are disected by US 40) are also excluded.  I recant my earlier statements regarding southern IL, with the caveat that it is only slightly culturally Southern.  But it should also be said that no part of Illinois has ever been historically considered part of The South.
   
I think some questions need to be asked what makes a person a southerner.
 
Is it just a dialect?
Is it a preference for Sweet Tea?
Is it an understanding of how to eat grits?

I think 'dialect' would be one criteria.  Another, I think, could be of course the states that voted to secede from the Union (the 11 states in the Confederacy) or at least had strong Southern sympathies.  Another criteria could be which states identify themselves as Southern.  Missouri and Oklahoma are usually (but not always) excluded using this criteria alone, but it should be noted that a great many of the populace of both states both identify themselves as Southern as well as speak with strong Southern dialects.  Another aspect of Southern culture is the cuisine.  Though it varies from region to region, BBQ ranks high up.  Here is another article entitled "Dixie As A Region".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dixie as a region

As a definite geographic location within the United States, "Dixie" is usually defined as the 11 Southern states that seceded to form the Confederate States of America. They are (in order of secession): South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee. This definition is strongly correlated with history and, in the minds of many Southerners, remains the traditional and emotional South.
An ethno-telephonic map of dixie using a modernization of Dr. Reed's methodologies.

In other ways however, the "location" and boundaries of Dixie have become, over time, more limited, vernacular, and/or mercurial. In popular mindset today, it is most often associated with those parts of the Southern United States where Old South traditions and legacies of the Confederacy live most strongly, and are most widely celebrated and remembered.

[inIn this particular contemporary realm, there are no hard and fast lines. Roughly however, it might be an area which begins in southern Virginia, maybe a county or two north of Richmond (and perhaps the southern parts of West Virginia), then extends south into North Central Florida. On the northern boundary it sweeps west to take in Tennessee and southern parts of Kentucky, then continues through Arkansas, possibly taking in a small part of southern Missouri and also Oklahoma. On the southern end it would run through the Gulf states until the northern and southern boundary lines connect to include East Texas.[/i]

Many businesses in the South contain "Dixie" in their name as an identifier, e.g. "Dixie Produce". One of the more famous is supermarket chain Winn-Dixie. Related to this fact, renowned cultural sociologist and "Southernologist" Dr. John Shelton Reed has attempted to "locate" Dixie by a criterion measuring the ratio of business listings containing the term as compared to those utilizing "American". First published in a 1976 article in Social Forces, this particular study was later updated in 1988. In contrasting the two, the delineating lines measuring over 6% of Dixie to American remained fairly constant in covering the Old Confederate States, with the exception being in Texas where, in both surveys, it was fairly well limited to eastern parts of the state.

Noted anomalies were the inclusion, and later even slight extension, into parts of the lower Midwest, particularly southern Indiana and southwestern Ohio. Neither of these areas can be properly considered a part of the South, so one explanation could be the extent of the so-called "Dixie Highway" into those particular locales and business names reflecting such. The red areas in Utah are explained by the locals' choice of the nickname Dixie for the low-lying and thus very warm areas in the southwestern part of the state.

In using a yardstick of 15%, all but a tiny slice of northeast Texas drops out of the picture. Also losing considerable ground were Virginia and most of Florida save the panhandle. Notable losses also occurred in North Carolina and Kentucky. Most remarkable of all however, was, as Reed stated, the fact that Dixie "dissolves as a coherent region" when the even more demanding standard of 25% was applied. In 1988 as compared to 1976, with the exception of small and isolated parts of adjoining states, only in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina were large areas still recorded on the data map.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
In reality many of the regional traits of disappearing in America because of the growing city centric and the proliferation of television watching that is making unique dialects disappear at a rapid pace.
This is very true and unfortunate.
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« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2009, 11:15:10 PM »

Another very good criteria could be the case of the Confederate Battle Flag itself.  There are 13 stars on the flag, 11 of which represent those states the seceded from the Union to form the Confederate States of America.  But two of those stars represent 2 states which had large secessionist factions which voted to join the CSA in 1861. These are the border states of Missouri and Kentucky.



And here is the Missouri division Confederate Flag.



In addition, here is a map of 1861 showing the Southern states;



 
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« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2009, 11:36:16 PM »

I'm a Yankee through and through (although my mom spent some formative years in Malibus, AL and Ft. Walton Beach, FL); however, I wouldn't even dare to call FL southern, and Texas is its own thing ("Tex-Mex-South-an" - hey, at least I didn't quote Full Metal Jacket on the subject of being a Texan).
EveryTHANG is big in Texas...yup buddy Grin
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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2009, 11:38:43 PM »

I'm mixed about the South. Part of my ancestory is from there, but I have such a hard time dealing with some of the bigotry and nastiness I've observed from close kinsmen from that part of the world (despite hearing all about "southern hospitality" and "gentlemen"). Maybe it's nothing to do with the actual South, maybe it's more to do with the sinful nature, I don't know. Anyhow, I didn't grow up in the South, so I'd be very curious to see what it's really like. I'm afraid I've evolved so much as a person that I wouldn't fit in at all, much as I've heard it romantasized by family members...
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« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2009, 12:34:34 AM »

Texas was part of Mexico, and it can't be seen as part of USA before it's annexing.

Oklahoma is considered part of the Wild, Wild West.

Kentucky and the area was considered the last frontier.

California was part of Mexico, and the expansion of the USA westwards beyond "the last frontier" and "the wild wild west" happened relatively recently, and had a slow beginning, mostly because of the plagues like rocky mountains locust (short antlers grashopper variety), mormon crickets (long antlers grashopper variety), etc.

I strongly disagree with the modern definition of deep south west.

I find the history of the deep south fascinating, large part of it belonged to the "french corridor" which moved all the way up from the Gulf of Mexico area, to the Great Lakes area, creating a series of unique local culture, dialects, and traditions.

In the deep south we have the "creolle" french based dialects like the one spoken in the "bayou", and the english based dialects like the famous geeee cheeee "gullah", a mix of elizabethan english and african dialects spoken in the gullah island region.

This diversity is also religious and has a wide spam, from main formal religions like Roman Catholicism, Baptism, and others, to religions frown upon like voodoo, palomayombe, among other.




 
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« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2009, 01:28:07 AM »

Interesting. One of the reasons that the Spanish set up missions in Texas was to stifle French encroachment via what is now Louisiana. They did the same throughout California in order to prevent other colonial powers from claiming the territory. The Russians were making headway!
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« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2009, 01:33:46 AM »

This here's what I reckon is the southern part of America:


Manifest Destiny?
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« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2009, 01:53:49 AM »

This here's what I reckon is the southern part of America:


Manifest Destiny?

 laugh
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« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2009, 01:56:53 AM »

I would like to propose the theory that the National Road establishes the line between north and south. If you really study it from a sociological and anthropological view you would notice a mark difference between those that live directly north and south of US 40.
While there are many instances where this observation is correct, I strongly hesitate to fully agree.  Anything west of Missouri (except Texas and Oklahoma) is automatically excluded.  Also Indiana, Ohio and New Jersey (three other states that are disected by US 40) are also excluded.  I recant my earlier statements regarding southern IL, with the caveat that it is only slightly culturally Southern.  But it should also be said that no part of Illinois has ever been historically considered part of The South.

Oh?

http://www.canadiana.org/citm/_images/common/nf-1759-e.jpg

http://jvanloo203.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/virginiaswesterncounties1776.jpg   

http://www.lva.virginia.gov/exhibits/political/images/1783_Kitchin_Map.jpg
Map of the United States in North America.
By Thomas Kitchin Sr. 1783
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« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2009, 02:47:56 AM »

I would like to propose the theory that the National Road establishes the line between north and south. If you really study it from a sociological and anthropological view you would notice a mark difference between those that live directly north and south of US 40.
While there are many instances where this observation is correct, I strongly hesitate to fully agree.  Anything west of Missouri (except Texas and Oklahoma) is automatically excluded.  Also Indiana, Ohio and New Jersey (three other states that are disected by US 40) are also excluded.  I recant my earlier statements regarding southern IL, with the caveat that it is only slightly culturally Southern.  But it should also be said that no part of Illinois has ever been historically considered part of The South.

Oh?

LOL!  Cheesy  I believe you went too far back with those maps, bro.  I'm of the opinion that, generally speaking, people didn't begin to recognize a North/South divide generally up until the time of The War Between the States.  At least it wasn't until around that time.  They were probably aware of differences, but 1759 and 1776 didn't matter then like it doesn't matter now (as far as this discussion is concerned).   And I'll grant you that a lot of Southerners moved up to southern IL, and there was sympathy for The South, but that makes it about as much apart of The South as calling Nova Scotia a part of Scotland.  Cheesy 
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« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2009, 11:22:00 PM »

Is it just a dialect?
Is it a preference for Sweet Tea?
Is it an understanding of how to eat grits?

My father is a born Virginian so I would say that he is a southerner even though he has lived in Montana for 50 years.  To answer your questions

1. no it's not just a dialect.  Dad's accent has mostly gone after being in the Air Force and living in Montana, though it would come out when he was with some family friends where the wife was from Virginia, too and she hadn't lost her accent.

2. No. My father learned to enjoy tea when he was stationed in England during WWII and he takes it hot, unsweetened and 'strong enough to trot a mouse across"

3. That depends.  My first answer would be "with a spoon?"  However, we ate grits when I was a kid.  My mother (born in Illinois, was a teen and young woman in New Jersey and Long Island) learned to cook them.  But we ate them by packing the cooked grits in a loaf pan the night before, then slicing the block and frying the slices in butter and eating them with syrup. 

But my father is still from the South.

Ebor
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« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2009, 11:24:51 PM »

This here's what I reckon is the southern part of America:




Excellent observation!   Smiley
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« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2009, 11:57:44 PM »

I'm a Yankee through and through (although my mom spent some formative years in Malibus, AL and Ft. Walton Beach, FL); however, I wouldn't even dare to call FL southern, and Texas is its own thing ("Tex-Mex-South-an" - hey, at least I didn't quote Full Metal Jacket on the subject of being a Texan).
EveryTHANG is big in Texas...yup buddy Grin

I was thinking more along the lines of "Only two things come from Texas..." Wink
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2009, 08:47:12 PM »

^

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« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2009, 01:06:35 PM »

The Confederates invaded Brazil and are still there today. The Confederacy lives on! Shocked

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Emperor Dom Pedro II of Brazil had a lively appreciation for the contributions that science and technology could make to society. He was interested in expanding his country's primary commodities, including making Brazil a major cotton producer. After the defeat of the South in the U.S. Civil War, he invited diehard confederates who had been successful in cultivating the South's cotton to come to Brazil. Between 1867 and 1871, a time when slavery was still legal in Brazil, at least 3,000 Southern confederate families passed through the port of Rio de Janeiro. About 80 percent of the confederates returned to the United States, but one successful settlement - Americana - founded by Colonel William Hutchinson Norris of Mobile, Alabama, remains to this day.
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« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2009, 01:37:11 PM »

I wouldn't even dare to call FL southern

Northern Florida is very Southern. I can't think of the word Tallahasee without a Southern accent.

Ft. Lauderdale & Boca Raton are actually annexs of Long Island, and Miami is an extension of Cuba.

You aren't kidding there. I went to school at the University of Florida, which is located in Gainesville. We students had a name for the locals outside of the blue dot in the center of ruby-red Alachua County: ACRs ("Alachua County Residents").

The telltale signs of ACRdom is a mullet, or several missing teeth, and always a certain way of speaking, etc. Step outside Gainesville to a place like nearby Waldo or Starke, and you are in another world entirely!
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« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2009, 01:39:00 PM »

Northern Florida is very Southern. I can't think of the word Tallahassee without a Southern accent. 

We had a name for that in Gainesville: Tallatrashee. Smiley
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« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2009, 02:12:24 PM »

The Confederates invaded Brazil and are still there today. The Confederacy lives on! Shocked

Quote
Emperor Dom Pedro II of Brazil had a lively appreciation for the contributions that science and technology could make to society. He was interested in expanding his country's primary commodities, including making Brazil a major cotton producer. After the defeat of the South in the U.S. Civil War, he invited diehard confederates who had been successful in cultivating the South's cotton to come to Brazil. Between 1867 and 1871, a time when slavery was still legal in Brazil, at least 3,000 Southern confederate families passed through the port of Rio de Janeiro. About 80 percent of the confederates returned to the United States, but one successful settlement - Americana - founded by Colonel William Hutchinson Norris of Mobile, Alabama, remains to this day.
Slavery was abolished in 1871 in Brazil. No wonder the majority came back.

I would've stay to bask in the sun and participate in every Mardi Gras festival. Grin
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« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2009, 02:42:59 PM »

Southern Ohio is also, "the south", at least culturally, or it was up until 1998, when I moved North. To me, "southern" is a culture, mind set, and a bit of dialect thrown in. However, "the south" is not monolithic, as I've always seen "the deep south" as quite different than say, Kentucky and even Virginia. (my mom was born and raised in the Shenedoah Valley...and yes I know I probably misspelled that, but don't tell my mom...LOL!)

If anyone doubts that Southern Ohio is part of the "south" culturally, then you've obviously never been to Hillsboro, or "little Kentucky"...(or as other's call it, Dayton...lol!)..of course from speaking with friends back home, things have changed drastically over the last 10 years or so, so who knows....it may be VERY different now. It may be more like Cleveland, which is northern Ohio and not really very "southern"....at all. There seems to be a divide that basically runs along I-70, but even that's not totally accurate....


For anyone that grew up in Southern Ohio, if you don't think you're "southern" move to Minnesota or Wisconsin....trust me, you'll find out no one can  understand a word you say, (don't worry, you can't understand THEM either so it's all fair) that they've never heard of "biscuits and gravy" and when you tell them you're from "Ohio" they think you're saying "Iowa"....

I even still have my accent, to a degree, and even my priest still jokes about me having a southern accent after 11 years. Smiley Of course I  say "washing machine", which as my parents will tell is wrong...it's "warshing machine"....so I don't have the drawl that they do. Smiley


But Ohio South is definitely not the same thing as Georgia or Alabama South, but it is the same as Ketucky south...partly because so many people came from Kentucky...(hence the term, little kentucky) Of course you have true Ohio settlers that go back a LONG way, but are still pretty southern compared to true Northerners.....

As others have said, America is losing this cultural diversity and it is a little sad, because while I would never eat Lutefisk or go golfing in a lightening storm, (you betchya) I find it amazing to live in a culture that does weird things like that, and yet consider us all equally American. Smiley (just a little joke at my Northern friends, since every year there are at least two commercials joking about "Sven and Ole" fishing or golfing in a lightening storm on the radio)


Yes it's all very confusing, but quite fun.

And no, I don't recall most people back home eating grits very much, but go to the U.P. of MI on vacation, and people will ask "where are you from, Alabama?"...






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« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2009, 03:08:31 PM »

I'm from SC.  Hubby is from the midwest, but his family is all Southern migrants with a lot of the south still in them.  I have to agree with the first map...there is THE South, then the Southern states, then those that are Southern Lite.

The one mistake I see is including Maryland in there.  PA has more Southerners than Maryland.
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« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2009, 03:12:02 PM »

^ Oh, we in Northern Ohio know very well that those south of Columbus are more "Southerner" than "Northerner" (ask Fr. Chris, who is from Dayton once upon a time).  Heck, in some ways Amish country in N. Ohio (the 2nd largest Amish cluster in OH is East of Burton, which is fairly rural for being only an hour outside of Cleveland) is pretty Southern (words do no justice; only a visit can reveal the truth).
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« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2009, 03:53:04 PM »

^

Officer and a Gentleman?

Heh!  Good reply!

Yep, I agree with the first map completely.  I agree that TX should be the brighter red.  We (TX) are southern, but not southern like "Miss Sippi" is southern, or "Jah-wajah" is southern.  Definitely also find the western frontiersman in the mix (I live in the city "Where the West begins," after all, and we're not that far out west in the state), as well as the historic Mexican influence.  So there's definitely a difference in the brand of southern from place to place, but the music, the drawl, the food -- much more alike than different.

Example.  You know what's good?  Plain grits w/Tabasco.  Yessir.  I find that lots of folks from the "dark red" states look at me just as funny when I mention that as they would if I mentioned syrup or honey in 'em.
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« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2009, 09:44:01 PM »

You forgot to add parts of West Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, and southern Illinois. laugh

Ha!  You got me on WV!  Maryland and Delaware?  Yep, parts for sure.  Southern IL?  Not in a million years!  Also, I wouldn't consider northern Missouri Southern per se (especially not St. Louis.)  But, the northern center of the state is culturally known as Little Dixie from Southron migrants.

Having lived there, I would certainly consider So. Ill. as "Southern".  I lived in the town of Anna, which was a "sundown town", and I could state what A.N.N.A. stood for, but not on this forum.  Also, a good number of the old families in the area spoke of ancestors that fought for the Confederacy during the war.
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« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2009, 07:36:08 PM »

I'm from SC.  Hubby is from the midwest, but his family is all Southern migrants with a lot of the south still in them.  I have to agree with the first map...there is THE South, then the Southern states, then those that are Southern Lite.

The one mistake I see is including Maryland in there.  PA has more Southerners than Maryland.

Well, Maryland *is* south and west of the Mason-Dixon Line and it had military units on both the Northern and Southern sides of the Civil War and "Maryland, My Maryland" is still the state song that calls Abraham Lincoln a "despot"... so it's a ummm mixed state.  How's that?   Wink
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« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2009, 08:08:06 PM »

Here's another fun map of Dixie Land.  Smiley


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« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2009, 08:31:13 PM »

Being from California makes me feel left out of the discussion.

I never did understand this talk about what exactly constitutes the "South".


 Roll Eyes
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« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2009, 08:44:40 PM »

^^LOL! Bless your heart; it's just something many Southerners loooove to talk about.  Grin
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« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2009, 09:05:51 PM »

^

Officer and a Gentleman?

Heh!  Good reply!

Yep, I agree with the first map completely.  I agree that TX should be the brighter red.  We (TX) are southern, but not southern like "Miss Sippi" is southern, or "Jah-wajah" is southern.  Definitely also find the western frontiersman in the mix (I live in the city "Where the West begins," after all, and we're not that far out west in the state), as well as the historic Mexican influence.  So there's definitely a difference in the brand of southern from place to place, but the music, the drawl, the food -- much more alike than different.

Example.  You know what's good?  Plain grits w/Tabasco.  Yessir.  I find that lots of folks from the "dark red" states look at me just as funny when I mention that as they would if I mentioned syrup or honey in 'em.

Shrimp and grits!!!
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« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2009, 09:50:15 PM »

Here's another fun map of Dixie Land.  Smiley




OK is absent, I see...y'all talk about part of MO being "Little Dixie"; the S.E. quadrant of OK bears that name, too, for the exact same reason.

Being from California makes me feel left out of the discussion.

There's a reason for that... Wink

I never did understand this talk about what exactly constitutes the "South".  Roll Eyes

History -- the above flag, really...

Accent(s) -- which you get a good chance to sample, as we tend to have the "gift of gab."  Either that, or nothing more than a, "Yyyyyyyep."

Food

Music

Southern climes

Manners and mannerisms, chivalry (boarders on chauvanism at times) and hospitality (along with the requisite dose of utter hypocrisy and insincerity that goes along with it) -- We have a saying around here: "We may be about to go out and shoot each other in a duel to the death...but, please, let's not dispense with the pleasantries!"
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« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2009, 10:13:15 PM »

I'm from SC.  Hubby is from the midwest, but his family is all Southern migrants with a lot of the south still in them.  I have to agree with the first map...there is THE South, then the Southern states, then those that are Southern Lite.

The one mistake I see is including Maryland in there.  PA has more Southerners than Maryland.

Well, Maryland *is* south and west of the Mason-Dixon Line and it had military units on both the Northern and Southern sides of the Civil War and "Maryland, My Maryland" is still the state song that calls Abraham Lincoln a "despot"... so it's a ummm mixed state.  How's that?   Wink

I can accept that.  I just know that nowadays people refer to it as the Socialist Republic of Maryland which is just so against everything the South stood for.  Glad to hear it isn't all like that Wink
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« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2009, 10:42:23 PM »

Here's another fun map of Dixie Land.  Smiley




OK is absent, I see...y'all talk about part of MO being "Little Dixie"; the S.E. quadrant of OK bears that name, too, for the exact same reason.
Bless their hearts, I don't have any id'e why they left OK off that there map.  


I never did understand this talk about what exactly constitutes the "South".  Roll Eyes

History -- the above flag, really...

Accent(s) -- which you get a good chance to sample, as we tend to have the "gift of gab."  Either that, or nothing more than a, "Yyyyyyyep."

Food

Music

Southern climes

Manners and mannerisms, chivalry (boarders on chauvanism at times) and hospitality (along with the requisite dose of utter hypocrisy and insincerity that goes along with it) -- We have a saying around here: "We may be about to go out and shoot each other in a duel to the death...but, please, let's not dispense with the pleasantries!"

I dasn't dare forgit our expressions;

 "Gimme some sugar!"
 "Too big fer his/her britches."
 "That dog don't hunt!"
 "She threw a hissy fit."
 "Fat/Full as a tick."
 "Sug'" (short for 'Sugar', what my grandparents called each other)
 "Nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full 'o rockin' chairs."
 "If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump it's butt a-hoppin!"
 "Purty as a daisy in the sun."
 "Plumb tuckered out."
 We also know the distance between "Pert near" and "Way off yonder."
 "Fixin' to"
 "Might could" and "Usetacould"
 "What in the Sam Hill?!?
 "Crooked as a dog's layg"

I could go on and on, but these are a few of my favorites.  Plus, as David said, the gift of gab (and wit) is purty common 'round these parts.
 
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« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2009, 11:21:25 PM »

^

Officer and a Gentleman?

Not quite... But finishing the quote wouldn't be part of polite conversation around here.
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« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2009, 11:26:55 PM »

^

Officer and a Gentleman?

Not quite... But finishing the quote wouldn't be part of polite conversation around here.

'Course, there's the okie version of that joke:

Q: What's the ONLY good thing to come out of Texas?

A: I-35, headin' North.
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« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2009, 01:39:44 AM »

I've been to the southernmost point in the United States...Key West, Fla. Culturally, it's more like Cuba than the south. And Miami is its own city altogether.

Then again, I've been to central Indiana, where folks proudly point out that it's "the buckle of the Bible Belt!"

My point is...that line is a lot fuzzier than some folks would care to admit. You can't draw the line neatly based on what happened in 1865.

As for Mo., north of I-70, it's the Midwestern Corn Belt state of Missouri. South of I-70 it's Muhzerrah. And as  for St. Louis...that's a tough one. Maybe it's western Illinois? Wink
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« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2009, 09:35:58 AM »

St Louis is a mix of turn of the century immigrants (both centuries Wink ) and migrated southerners, particularly Mississippi, Arkansas, Southern Missouri (Missourah), and Southern Illinois.
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« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2009, 10:10:56 AM »

ya'll are funny! I think 'southern' is a state of mind these days. Even some historically southern states are divided anymore. IN VA, the closer you get to DC the more Northern the folks are. There are no more genteel ways and pleasantness from about Charlottesville up.  The maps you guys use would probably not reflect things like that.
Though I was born in Northern CA mountains, I have been in the south so long I have to call it home. Enough that I have put down roots and made quite a large family here. When we travel and can't find sweet tea, things go badly. But it would be 20+ years before my southern friends saw a Fresca here, so it goes both ways. Now I can't go anywhere without at least some accent coming out, only topped by my texan friends.  As far as Missouri, no. "Misery" is NOT southern in any way shape or form. And they mock those that ask for sweet tea, so there can be no mercy for them.
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« Reply #52 on: July 03, 2009, 06:48:32 PM »

Eh, the Missourians I know all loved their Sweet Tea!  Maybe it depends on where in MO you're from.  St Louis = sweet tea.
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« Reply #53 on: July 04, 2009, 06:57:02 AM »

The Confederates invaded Brazil and are still there today. The Confederacy lives on! Shocked

Quote
Emperor Dom Pedro II of Brazil had a lively appreciation for the contributions that science and technology could make to society. He was interested in expanding his country's primary commodities, including making Brazil a major cotton producer. After the defeat of the South in the U.S. Civil War, he invited diehard confederates who had been successful in cultivating the South's cotton to come to Brazil. Between 1867 and 1871, a time when slavery was still legal in Brazil, at least 3,000 Southern confederate families passed through the port of Rio de Janeiro. About 80 percent of the confederates returned to the United States, but one successful settlement - Americana - founded by Colonel William Hutchinson Norris of Mobile, Alabama, remains to this day.

Indeed.

This past week I took my sons to the Confederate White House in Richmond.  Visiting there were a soccer team from Brazil, some of which were Confederate Brazilians.
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« Reply #54 on: July 04, 2009, 07:02:16 AM »

Southern Ohio is also, "the south", at least culturally, or it was up until 1998, when I moved North. To me, "southern" is a culture, mind set, and a bit of dialect thrown in. However, "the south" is not monolithic, as I've always seen "the deep south" as quite different than say, Kentucky and even Virginia. (my mom was born and raised in the Shenedoah Valley...and yes I know I probably misspelled that, but don't tell my mom...LOL!)

If anyone doubts that Southern Ohio is part of the "south" culturally, then you've obviously never been to Hillsboro, or "little Kentucky"...(or as other's call it, Dayton...lol!)..of course from speaking with friends back home, things have changed drastically over the last 10 years or so, so who knows....it may be VERY different now. It may be more like Cleveland, which is northern Ohio and not really very "southern"....at all. There seems to be a divide that basically runs along I-70, but even that's not totally accurate....


For anyone that grew up in Southern Ohio, if you don't think you're "southern" move to Minnesota or Wisconsin....trust me, you'll find out no one can  understand a word you say, (don't worry, you can't understand THEM either so it's all fair) that they've never heard of "biscuits and gravy" and when you tell them you're from "Ohio" they think you're saying "Iowa"....

I even still have my accent, to a degree, and even my priest still jokes about me having a southern accent after 11 years. Smiley Of course I  say "washing machine", which as my parents will tell is wrong...it's "warshing machine"....so I don't have the drawl that they do. Smiley


But Ohio South is definitely not the same thing as Georgia or Alabama South, but it is the same as Ketucky south...partly because so many people came from Kentucky...(hence the term, little kentucky) Of course you have true Ohio settlers that go back a LONG way, but are still pretty southern compared to true Northerners.....

As others have said, America is losing this cultural diversity and it is a little sad, because while I would never eat Lutefisk or go golfing in a lightening storm, (you betchya) I find it amazing to live in a culture that does weird things like that, and yet consider us all equally American. Smiley (just a little joke at my Northern friends, since every year there are at least two commercials joking about "Sven and Ole" fishing or golfing in a lightening storm on the radio)


Yes it's all very confusing, but quite fun.

And no, I don't recall most people back home eating grits very much, but go to the U.P. of MI on vacation, and people will ask "where are you from, Alabama?"...








Funny, when you were posting this, I was on my way through Columbus.  We stopped for dinner and a couple of other things, and I had to ask myself, "Did we cross the border yet down south?"
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« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2009, 06:09:27 PM »

As far as Missouri, no. "Misery" is NOT southern in any way shape or form. And they mock those that ask for sweet tea, so there can be no mercy for them.

A NorCal gal with a psuedo Southern accent and ... they mock you?  Say it ain't so!  Cheesy  Just teasin' ya sister.  BTW, just how long has it been since you've been to Missourah (not Missouri ... Missourah)?  There are pockets (some quite large) here and there of folks who identify themselves as Southern here.  And yes, we love us some sweet tea!
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« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2009, 06:50:22 PM »

Funny, when you were posting this, I was on my way through Columbus.  We stopped for dinner and a couple of other things, and I had to ask myself, "Did we cross the border yet down south?"

Who cares as long as there's good BBQ!!!

(unlike here in NE where they brag about their "chicken BBQ"...there is nothing "BBQ" about their grilled chicken)
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« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2009, 07:10:34 PM »

ya'll are funny! I think 'southern' is a state of mind these days. Even some historically southern states are divided anymore. IN VA, the closer you get to DC the more Northern the folks are. There are no more genteel ways and pleasantness from about Charlottesville up.  The maps you guys use would probably not reflect things like that.
Though I was born in Northern CA mountains, I have been in the south so long I have to call it home. Enough that I have put down roots and made quite a large family here. When we travel and can't find sweet tea, things go badly. But it would be 20+ years before my southern friends saw a Fresca here, so it goes both ways. Now I can't go anywhere without at least some accent coming out, only topped by my texan friends.  As far as Missouri, no. "Misery" is NOT southern in any way shape or form. And they mock those that ask for sweet tea, so there can be no mercy for them.

I can vouch for Northern Virginia being much more Northern.  I lived there for a year, and it felt anything but Southern.  Some people joke that it really belongs in Maryland.  Actually, kinda funny, it was only when I moved back north to south-central PA that I started seeing confederate flags again.  Just down the road from me flies the Bonnie Blue Flag, and often enough I see trucks with the Confederate flag.  I notice that people with whom I've spoken where I live in PA tend to view the Confederate cause in a positive or on par level with the Northern cause.  Copperheads basically. 

As far as manners go, people here are more Northern it seems.  Lots of Dutch influence. 
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« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2009, 07:42:56 PM »

ya'll are funny! I think 'southern' is a state of mind these days. Even some historically southern states are divided anymore. IN VA, the closer you get to DC the more Northern the folks are. There are no more genteel ways and pleasantness from about Charlottesville up.  The maps you guys use would probably not reflect things like that.
Though I was born in Northern CA mountains, I have been in the south so long I have to call it home. Enough that I have put down roots and made quite a large family here. When we travel and can't find sweet tea, things go badly. But it would be 20+ years before my southern friends saw a Fresca here, so it goes both ways. Now I can't go anywhere without at least some accent coming out, only topped by my texan friends.  As far as Missouri, no. "Misery" is NOT southern in any way shape or form. And they mock those that ask for sweet tea, so there can be no mercy for them.

I can vouch for Northern Virginia being much more Northern.  I lived there for a year, and it felt anything but Southern.  Some people joke that it really belongs in Maryland.  Actually, kinda funny, it was only when I moved back north to south-central PA that I started seeing confederate flags again.  Just down the road from me flies the Bonnie Blue Flag, and often enough I see trucks with the Confederate flag.  I notice that people with whom I've spoken where I live in PA tend to view the Confederate cause in a positive or on par level with the Northern cause.  Copperheads basically. 

As far as manners go, people here are more Northern it seems.  Lots of Dutch influence. 

We noticed that also.
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« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2009, 08:01:37 PM »

Do any (many) of you who posted on this thread actually live in the South?  If not, why don't you come down here and see what it's like in this section of the South?  We have a very nice parish, Christ the Saviour in McComb, Mississippi and we love to have guests. Not many Orthodox around these parts.  We're about 100 miles north of New Orleans and there are accommodations available for anyone who is passing through or would like to visit.
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« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2009, 08:33:52 PM »

Do any (many) of you who posted on this thread actually live in the South?  If not, why don't you come down here and see what it's like in this section of the South?  We have a very nice parish, Christ the Saviour in McComb, Mississippi and we love to have guests. Not many Orthodox around these parts.  We're about 100 miles north of New Orleans and there are accommodations available for anyone who is passing through or would like to visit.

I was born in the deep south, spent my early years there, most of my family is there.  Get me on the phone with a sister or get me big-sistering my a brother and my accent comes out strong and clear Wink
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« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2009, 04:40:29 PM »

I love almost everything about the South except for the humidity!  When I visit my Tennessee relatives, it's not too bad.  But when I visit my relatives down in Louisiana, it reminds me of here in the Ozarks in August when the temp and humidity level are both in the upper 90's!  The air gets so "heavy and wet" that you can almost cut it with a knife at times!  Whew!
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« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2009, 11:32:50 AM »

Maybe that's why my father, the Virginian, decided to stay in Montana.  It's nice and dry there most of the time.  You don't need to chew the air before breathing it in the summer and when you walk outside sometimes during June, July or August, it doesn't feel like you've been wrapped up on a heavy wool army blanket that just came out of the dryer only half way through the cycle. 

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"Sticky"- Lawn chairs, car seats and underwear become lethally adhesive.  Spatula sales go through the roof" the picture has a woman with a spatula saying "Sure is sticky" while the man stuck to a lawn chair replies "Just get me out of here."

"Muggy - Your basic hot and humid day. The Atmosphere transmutes to bus exhaust and normally stable objects run like brie"  with a scene of the Washington Monument bent in half and melting while a passing plane has its wings drooping.
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« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2009, 02:58:04 PM »

Aaaooh! Dude! Sorry, I thought this was Southern California!

I will have to say that I love some Deep South food though. I find a good slow-smoked ""hawg" or Brisket is about the best stuff that ever emerged from a puddle of grease though. And there is one dish from the south which I can not abstain from - Creole Shrimp on some Mashed Potatoes! Wink put it right here...
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« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2009, 02:07:54 AM »

I'm from Canada. If your below the 49th parallel, you're southern redneck.

Bless yer hearts. Grin
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« Reply #65 on: August 24, 2009, 11:10:19 PM »

Here's an article about a cherished symbol of Southern pride and culture I thought all y'all might find enlightening.  It's presented in an articulate and thoughtful manner.

Confederate Flag: History Vs. Hysteria

For the average non-Southerner, like most of you, the continued affection residents of Dixie display toward the controversial Battle Flag can be baffling. If African-Americans are so incensed by the banner, why not juts fold it up and put it away? Why indeed? The war has been over for 137 years. Certain unsavory groups groups of a racist stripe seem unduly attached to the symbol as well. No one in the print or electronic media seems willing to come forward and offer a counterpoint. Is there another point of view after all?

http://thefloridapatriot.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/confederate-flag-history-vs-hysteria/
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« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2009, 12:47:55 AM »

Speaking of blacks and the south

http://www.37thtexas.org/html/BlkHist.html

interesting
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« Reply #67 on: June 11, 2010, 05:38:47 AM »

The South refers to either the slave states during the civil war or the Confederate States at that time.
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« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2010, 07:17:30 AM »

Since this thread has been resurrected...

It's funny that Northern Pines had brought up (once upon a time) how "Southern-like" S Ohio is.  Funny in that the lands of Ohio were first promised as payment to George Washington and his men when the former was still a militia commander in VA.  He surveyed the land just W of the Ohio River himself, and had ideas for where his plot was going to be.
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« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2010, 07:19:31 AM »

Southern Ohio IS southern like. Look at a map and alot of it is below Pennsylvania. The Mason Dixon line starts around PA and then makes a BIG dip around southern Ohio.
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« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2010, 10:40:06 AM »

Historically speaking the "Mason-Dixon Line" does not have anything to do with Ohio.  It was a surveyed line that set the border between Pennsylvania/Delaware on one side and Maryland with a small part of what is now West Virginia on the other to settle matters between the those colonies.  It goes south along the Delaware-Maryland border on the Eastern Shore in particular.  Therefore here in Maryland I am living in the "South" by those lights.  There is some very interesting information about the MDL at the "Mason & Dixon Line Preservation Partnership" website:  http://www.mdlpp.org/ including photos of some of the marker stones.

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« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2010, 12:07:12 PM »

Southern Ohio IS southern like. Look at a map and alot of it is below Pennsylvania. The Mason Dixon line starts around PA and then makes a BIG dip around southern Ohio.

I struck by that when we crossed that last year.  Btw, southern IL (which had slavery in a limited form) the same.
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« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2010, 12:12:31 PM »

OK is not part of the south?


I guess those of us from the Southwest don't know much about the south.
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« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2010, 01:01:18 PM »

The CSA included all "southern" states except Maryland and West Virginia, and extended as far as Texas in the west.  Kansas was with the Union, while Missouri was with the Confederacy; Oklahoma was only a territory then, as was everything west of the Great Plains except for California, which was with the Union.  Rather a bit of a mess, I'd say.
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« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2010, 02:29:22 PM »

Yes.

Further, none of the answers in the poll are right.

"The Deep South and parts of MO and KY"
is the closest answer, but it leaves out Virginia and I think North Carolina, which belong to the south even more than Kentucky. Slavery and the confederacy were much stronger in North Carolina and Virginia than Kentucky, I believe. But they are not part of "the deep south."
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« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2010, 03:47:42 PM »

Maryland now is heavily contaminated by immigration (including my NC-apostate father: "you couldn't pay me to live there" he said of his native Charlotte) but the general rule is that only maybe parts of Southern Maryland (which does NOT include the Eastern Shore) were originally southern. Western Maryland and the area north of Balto. is more allied with Pa., as you can see form the heavy German input in the cooking among other things. The Eastern Shore and some of the bay area are a whole subculture to themselves.

Texas, on the other hand, is TEXAS.
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« Reply #76 on: June 11, 2010, 04:02:41 PM »

MD was completely a slave state and south of the Mason Dixon line, but remained on the union side in the civil war. So it is debatable whether it is southern or not.

Texas was a slave state and was in the confederacy. I understand they have presumptions about special rights to independence, however it is still a state, and it had slavery and belonged to the CSA, so it is southern.
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« Reply #77 on: June 11, 2010, 04:50:15 PM »

MD was completely a slave state and south of the Mason Dixon line, but remained on the union side in the civil war. So it is debatable whether it is southern or not.

Texas was a slave state and was in the confederacy. I understand they have presumptions about special rights to independence, however it is still a state, and it had slavery and belonged to the CSA, so it is southern.

There's more to the south than slavery. For one thing, they had slaves up north too (NY, for instance, didn't fully abolish it until July 4, 1827, New Jersey until 1847 (and then only in name, indentured servants continued until the 13th Amendment), Delaware until the passage of the 13th Amendment).
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« Reply #78 on: June 11, 2010, 04:54:31 PM »

I would like to propose the theory that the National Road establishes the line between north and south. If you really study it from a sociological and anthropological view you would notice a mark difference between those that live directly north and south of US 40.
While there are many instances where this observation is correct, I strongly hesitate to fully agree.  Anything west of Missouri (except Texas and Oklahoma) is automatically excluded.  Also Indiana, Ohio and New Jersey (three other states that are disected by US 40) are also excluded.  I recant my earlier statements regarding southern IL, with the caveat that it is only slightly culturally Southern.  But it should also be said that no part of Illinois has ever been historically considered part of The South.

Oh?

http://www.canadiana.org/citm/_images/common/nf-1759-e.jpg

http://jvanloo203.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/virginiaswesterncounties1776.jpg  

http://www.lva.virginia.gov/exhibits/political/images/1783_Kitchin_Map.jpg
Map of the United States in North America.
By Thomas Kitchin Sr. 1783

I just had to add that in March I saw an earlier version of the last map (in reproduction) in the Capitol of Williamsburg, which was the capital of Illinois at the time of the American War of Independence.
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« Reply #79 on: June 11, 2010, 05:12:17 PM »

You are right, the South doesn't mean any place where-ever slavery was allowed at any time. It means slave states at the time of the Civil War , or the CSA states, technically speaking.

You could make the definition more narrow or broad, but this is what I believe the term technically means.
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« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2010, 05:18:19 PM »

Oklahoma was only a territory then...

Yes, but all five of the Civilized Tribes sided w/the South - Stand Watie, the leader of the Cherokee, was the last Confederate leader to surrender (almost 2 mos. after Appomattox).  After the war, it became a favorite hideout for unreconstructed southerners.  Definitely should be considered a southern loyalist.

Texas, on the other hand, is TEXAS.

Indeed.   Grin

I understand [Texas has] presumptions about special rights to independence...

No more special than those of any other state.  We are beholden to the Constitution (as opposed to the president or other states) of the United States, but our Constitution states that "All political power is inherent in the people ... they have at all times the inalienable right to alter their government in such manner as they might think proper."  This, to me, includes talk of independence, and is consonant with the US Declaration of Independence, to wit:

  • Authority of the government is derived from the consent of the governed
  • "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends [i.e., protecting life, liberty, and property], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government"
  • "when a long train of abuses and usurpations...evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

We are southern...but also western...but mostly Texan.
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« Reply #81 on: June 11, 2010, 05:27:53 PM »

If the South had won the War.
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« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2010, 05:29:38 PM »

Quote
So, just where IS The South?
Only the Deep South is really Southron
The Deep South and parts of MO and KY
The Deep South, TX and maybe OK
All of the above
I'm a Yankee and don't know too much

A correct answer would be "The Deep South, MO, KY, and VA."
I am a Yankee ("US Citizen" AND "northerner") and don't know too much about the Universe. I know the correct answer to the question, however, the South is very small compared to everything else in the world, so the best answer is the last one.
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« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2010, 03:47:25 AM »

Anything dark green in this:




I agree with this, except I would exclude Virginia and west Texas. If it doesn't have an SEC school, it ain't the South yall! Wink (But I still count North Carolina and parts of Texas.)


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« Reply #84 on: June 12, 2010, 11:40:01 AM »

I would say that West NE is culturally similar.
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« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2010, 10:26:34 AM »

I agree with this, except I would exclude Virginia


My father, born and raised in Virginia though living in Montana for over 50 years now, would certainly disagree with that.  Virginia is southern.
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« Reply #86 on: June 14, 2010, 09:36:42 AM »

I would say that West NE is culturally similar.
I definitely disagree. Nebraska is definitely upper Midwest, closer culturally to Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.
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« Reply #87 on: June 14, 2010, 10:08:06 AM »

I'm from Canada. If your below the 49th parallel, you're southern redneck.

Fifty-four forty or fight! Grin
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« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2010, 10:11:12 AM »

Virginia is southern, but Northern Virginia is an alien land, the bastard child of New York and Alabama. Nebraska is about as midwestern as it ever gets.
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« Reply #89 on: June 14, 2010, 10:57:24 AM »


If it doesn't have an SEC school, it ain't the South yall! Wink

Selam

That may be change soon. There is speculation that the SEC and the PAC 12 will swallow up the ACC and the Big 12. There is a hope that many ACC teams will join the ACC, as will schools from the old Confederacy, such as Texas. However, some say that Texas may go to Pac 10 because its administration feels the SEC's academic standards are not high enough. I think that that is pretentious rhubarb but the faculty of UT at Austin are just as "West Coast" as UCLA and the lot.  
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« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2010, 11:31:42 PM »

If the South had won the War.

LOL...Spike Lee's drivel...

Not sure where to begin on that...I suppose if one's used to calling it the "Civil War," one might come to that film's conclusion (which I have seen, btw).  But a Civil War, by definition, is "a war between political factions or regions within the same country" (SOURCE). Trouble is, the South wasn't trying to be "the same country" as the United States; they didn't want Washington for their own, nor did they want to impose any kind of rule over her.  They wanted to be left alone, with their own government, their own capital, their own life.  Thus, one could hardly call the war of1861-5 a "Civil War"; rather, "War for Southern Independence" or "War between the States" is much more accurate.

Makes all the difference.
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« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2010, 11:48:40 PM »

Also known as the "War of the Rebellion" wherein the suthern slavedrivers rebelled against the Yunitad Stayts uv America AKA the Union.  Grin

Did you know that Orthodox Russia saved the Union? There is a book about this I posted earlier on this thread I believe. Tsar Alexander and Lincoln apparently had an affinity for one another because Alexander II freed the serfs and Lincoln freed the slaves.
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« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2010, 08:01:37 AM »

Kevin Willmott, a film professor at U. of Kansas, Lawrence, wrote and directed the movie. Spike Lee had no role in creating the movie itself, even though he did let his name be used in promoting it.

I know Kansas is not looked upon favorably in some parts, but c'mon.
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« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2010, 09:17:10 AM »

Kevin Willmott, a film professor at U. of Kansas, Lawrence, wrote and directed the movie. Spike Lee had no role in creating the movie itself, even though he did let his name be used in promoting it.

I know Kansas is not looked upon favorably in some parts, but c'mon.

1) You're right; I just did stream-of-consciousness when I wrote the line b/c all I could think of was "Spike Lee's drivel" associated w/the promotion of the movie.  In all honesty, I thought he was consulted re: the movie's content.  Anyway.  Sorry.

2) Re: KU.  I mean, really.  I've spent my whole life in TX and OK (until this move to NY).  You really think I'm gonna give an unbiased opinion about a Jayhawk?!  Wink  

Seriously, though, the central premise of the movie is ahistorical, treating the war as something it fundamentally was not (and this on several levels).  The point is to show, ultimately, how racism is still present today in advertising and other media in the United States; that some folks take it as a tale w/the message of, "See?  Good thing the South didn't take D.C.!" is doubly sad, then.
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« Reply #94 on: June 18, 2010, 12:34:56 AM »

Kevin Willmott, a film professor at U. of Kansas, Lawrence, wrote and directed the movie. Spike Lee had no role in creating the movie itself, even though he did let his name be used in promoting it.

I know Kansas is not looked upon favorably in some parts, but c'mon.

1) You're right; I just did stream-of-consciousness when I wrote the line b/c all I could think of was "Spike Lee's drivel" associated w/the promotion of the movie.  In all honesty, I thought he was consulted re: the movie's content.  Anyway.  Sorry.

2) Re: KU.  I mean, really.  I've spent my whole life in TX and OK (until this move to NY).  You really think I'm gonna give an unbiased opinion about a Jayhawk?!  Wink  

Seriously, though, the central premise of the movie is ahistorical, treating the war as something it fundamentally was not (and this on several levels).  The point is to show, ultimately, how racism is still present today in advertising and other media in the United States; that some folks take it as a tale w/the message of, "See?  Good thing the South didn't take D.C.!" is doubly sad, then.

It IS a good thang for us US Americans that the South did dunt take DC. Suthunuhs burnt down duh Chambersburg Pennsylvania. Da south say da south will rayuz again. Dat sounds like dah bad stuff.



Ivan Turchaninov Born into a Don Cossack family in Russia he attended the Imperial Military School in St. Petersburg in 1851 and later served as a Colonel of Staff in the Russian Guards. He fought in Hungary and in the Crimean War.
Please see http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/ivan-turchaninov-a-russian-general-in-the-union-army/

You tell me: was Turchaninov using eastern-style methods for dealing with confederate slave-bossing um "difficulties"? (uhhhh) The Varvara page implies that he could have been framed.

Bad stuff went down. God save them
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« Reply #95 on: June 18, 2010, 03:43:00 PM »

It IS a good thang for us US Americans that the South did dunt take DC. Suthunuhs burnt down duh Chambersburg Pennsylvania. Da south say da south will rayuz again. Dat sounds like dah bad stuff.

The days of a second rising are long gone, and the South didn't want D.C. in the first place.  They burned PA because it was on their way to pin down D.C. in an effort to have their independence recognized, but once that happened, they would have gone back home, leaving the Yanks to lick their wounds.  And the attempt at a drawl is unnecessary.


Ivan Turchaninov Born into a Don Cossack family in Russia he attended the Imperial Military School in St. Petersburg in 1851 and later served as a Colonel of Staff in the Russian Guards. He fought in Hungary and in the Crimean War.
Please see http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/ivan-turchaninov-a-russian-general-in-the-union-army/

You tell me: was Turchaninov using eastern-style methods for dealing with confederate slave-bossing um "difficulties"? (uhhhh) The Varvara page implies that he could have been framed.

Bad stuff went down. God save them

I'm not sure of your point here...Sherman was guilty of similarly vicious tactics in his march to the sea; such is often and tragically the nature of war.  What is the point you're trying to make in mentioning him?
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« Reply #96 on: June 18, 2010, 05:41:54 PM »

It IS a good thang for us US Americans that the South did dunt take DC. Suthunuhs burnt down duh Chambersburg Pennsylvania. Da south say da south will rayuz again. Dat sounds like dah bad stuff.
And the attempt at a drawl is unnecessary.

Me funny.


Ivan Turchaninov Born into a Don Cossack family in Russia he attended the Imperial Military School in St. Petersburg in 1851 and later served as a Colonel of Staff in the Russian Guards. He fought in Hungary and in the Crimean War.
Please see http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/ivan-turchaninov-a-russian-general-in-the-union-army/

You tell me: was Turchaninov using eastern-style methods for dealing with confederate slave-bossing um "difficulties"? (uhhhh) The Varvara page implies that he could have been framed.

Bad stuff went down. God save them

I'm not sure of your point here...Sherman was guilty of similarly vicious tactics in his march to the sea; such is often and tragically the nature of war.  What is the point you're trying to make in mentioning him?

Some Confederate sympathizers cartooned him as fitting an ethnic stereotype of barbarian Cossacks, and I wanted to see if you agreed. I mean was the Russians' use of mass-produced, non-elite Sherman Tanks a poetic image combining Sherman with "barbarian" Cossack hoardes?
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