OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 31, 2014, 01:27:20 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Can you please answer some basic questions about Orthodoxy?  (Read 3781 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
StGeorge
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 708


St. George


« on: March 20, 2005, 04:34:32 PM »

Hello. I'm a 22-year-old single, Latin Rite Catholic in communion with Rome, but that might all change soon (at least the Latin Rite Catholic part). Attacked by fundamentalist Christians, I have begun reading works of the early Church. At first, I used these texts to defend Catholic beliefs, such as the Real Presence and the apostolic succession, but now, upon deeper reading, I am finding myself increasingly in favor of Orthodox beliefs. I am discovering that the papacy was not present in the early Church, and was in fact an idea bolstered in the medieval ages by a series of forged documents.

In any case, I just have some questions that most of the Orthodox books I am reading don't fully address:

1) I am interested in how Kallistos and other Orthodox writers emphasize how the East and West THINK differently, and this is why their theologies are much different from each other. While I understand this to a degree, could someone please give me perhaps 5 or 6 ways in which the East and West are much different in the ways they think?

2) I wish to serve the Church (wherever the Church may be!). I honestly have considered some sort of religious life with the Western Church, but they require you to be celibate, and I don't feel that God is calling me to the celibate life, although I sense that He is pulling me towards some way of life in which I teach and help others, especially with their spiritual needs. I had thought earlier that perhaps I should become a DRE or a Catholic teacher at a Western Church school, but now I am not so sure if I could do this were I to become Orthodox.

I understand that the Orthodox have a secular priesthood in which they allow married priests. I think that, were God calling me to be married while serving the Church, this is where He would want me to be. So, and please forgive me if I sound presumptuous, but, were I to become Orthodox, how long would I have to wait before being allowed to enter Orthodox seminary? Also, are there any other jobs with the Orthodox Church?

I have some more questions, but these should do for now. Thanks for answering! Cheesy




 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2005, 04:36:32 PM by StGeorge » Logged
MsGuided
Pharmakolytria
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 478


St. Anastasia


« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2005, 04:44:42 PM »

I'll be of no good use to answering your more important questions, but I can tell you that you don't have to be Orthodox to attend an Orthodox seminary. Wink
Logged

"Forgive me that great love leads me to talking nonsense." Barsanuphius
TonyS
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 705


« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2005, 04:48:20 PM »

You can start Orthodox seminary now.  The system if it can be called that of being sponsored, etc., is not the same in most Orthodox seminaries in the USA.
Logged

Tómame como al tequila, de un golpe y sin pensarlo. - Ricardo Arjona

I'd be a fool to surrender when I know I can be a contender
and if everbody's a sinner then everybody can be a winner
...
I'll see you when yo
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2005, 05:37:42 PM »

1) I am interested in how Kallistos and other Orthodox writers emphasize how the East and West THINK differently, and this is why their theologies are much different from each other.  While I understand this to a degree, could someone please give me perhaps 5 or 6 ways in which the East and West are much different in the ways they think?

Though I am tempted to start discussing Greek Philosophy yet again, and then turn that into a discussion on the distinctions between the Scholastics and the Hesychasts, I shall refrain. I'm Sure you've read Aquinas' Summa Theologica and Anselm's Cur Deus Homo (if not, I'd suggest you read the aforementioned work of Anselm, and at least a little bit of the Summa (many find him dry, though I quite like his style, even if I dislike his theology)), these are both good examples of western thought and portray the latin post-schism weltanschuung that so many Orthodox scholars refer to. As for the eastern weltanschuung, the most obvious work that comes to mind is St. Dionysius the Pseudo-Areopagite's short work The Mystical Theology (all these works are freely available online, Dionysius' work can be found here: http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/areopagite_06_mystic_theology.htm).

I understand that the Orthodox have a secular priesthood in which they allow married priests.  I think that, were God calling me to be married while serving the Church, this is where He would want me to be.  So, and please forgive me if I sound presumptuous, but, were I to become Orthodox, how long would I have to wait before being allowed to enter Orthodox seminary?  Also, are there any other  jobs with the Orthodox Church? 

This will vary from Jurisdiction to Jurisdiction, and from Bishop to Bishop, of course, but in the GOA most Bishops want one to wait at least two years after becoming Orthodox before they will give them their endorsement for seminarian status (you could still attend the school earlier if you wished, just not as a seminarian preparing for ordination).
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
StGeorge
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 708


St. George


« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2005, 08:34:44 PM »

Quote
Originally Quoted by greekischristian:

 I'm Sure you've read Aquinas' Summa Theologica and Anselm's Cur Deus Homo (if not, I'd suggest you read the aforementioned work of Anselm, and at least a little bit of the Summa (many find him dry, though I quite like his style, even if I dislike his theology)), these are both good examples of western thought and portray the latin post-schism weltanschuung that so many Orthodox scholars refer to.

I have read a fair portion of Aquinas' Summa Theologica as well as some of his other writings. I have read a selection of Anselm's Cur Deus Homo, but, to be honest, I have yet to read all of it. I also like the style Aquinas utilizes, although I am a bit wary in how he uses "The Philosopher" as an authoratative source, when in fact Aristotle wasn't correct about everything.

Quote
This will vary from Jurisdiction to Jurisdiction, and from Bishop to Bishop, of course, but in the GOA most Bishops want one to wait at least two years after becoming Orthodox before they will give them their endorsement for seminarian status (you could still attend the school earlier if you wished, just not as a seminarian preparing for ordination).

Ok, that sounds reasonable. I find it fascinating that non-Orthodox can attend seminary. I don't believe that Catholic seminaries allow non-Catholics to attend, although I know that Catholic universities allow anyone (Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, Satanist) to study Catholic theology.

If I were to attend seminary under the status of a semanarian not preparing for ordination, what would I be able to do with a degree in Orthodox theology?

If I were to obtain a degree in Orthodox theology and later, after being accepted into the Orthodox communion and remaining in it for the minimum waiting period of two years, then how difficult would it be to be ordained?

In any case, that's awesome that non-Orthodox can attend an Orthodox seminary. Grin Thanks for your help. Again, sorry if I seemed a little presumptuos (A Roman Catholic suggesting the possibility of becoming an Orthodox priest!)

Maybe I'm in part drawn to Orthodoxy because I'm half Slovak and Hungarian. Who knows. Cheesy





« Last Edit: March 20, 2005, 08:35:39 PM by StGeorge » Logged
Elisha
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,452


« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2005, 09:03:29 PM »

If I were to attend seminary under the status of a semanarian not preparing for ordination, what would I be able to do with a degree in Orthodox theology? 

If I were to obtain a degree in Orthodox theology and later, after being accepted into the Orthodox communion and remaining in it for the minimum waiting period of two years, then how difficult would it be to be ordained? 

In any case, that's awesome that non-Orthodox can attend an Orthodox seminary.  Grin  Thanks for your help.  Again, sorry if I seemed a little presumptuos (A Roman Catholic suggesting the possibility of becoming an Orthodox priest!) 

Maybe I'm in part drawn to Orthodoxy because I'm half Slovak and Hungarian.  Who knows.   Cheesy 

Well to start with, your (well, the Western) mindest is very legalistic.  The Orthodox is not so - much more flexible, pastoral, situational.  Things are not so black and white and all there is does not need explaining. 

Getting ordained is always a case between you and your bishop.  greekischristian just gave the general of his bishop, which could be completely different from whoever you end up attached to.
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,095


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2005, 10:19:43 PM »


Ok, that sounds reasonable.  I find it fascinating that non-Orthodox can attend seminary.  I don't believe that Catholic seminaries allow non-Catholics to attend, although I know that Catholic universities allow anyone (Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, Satanist) to study Catholic theology. 

If I were to attend seminary under the status of a semanarian not preparing for ordination, what would I be able to do with a degree in Orthodox theology? 

If I were to obtain a degree in Orthodox theology and later, after being accepted into the Orthodox communion and remaining in it for the minimum waiting period of two years, then how difficult would it be to be ordained? 

In any case, that's awesome that non-Orthodox can attend an Orthodox seminary.  Grin  Thanks for your help.  Again, sorry if I seemed a little presumptuos (A Roman Catholic suggesting the possibility of becoming an Orthodox priest!) 

Maybe I'm in part drawn to Orthodoxy because I'm half Slovak and Hungarian.  Who knows.   Cheesy 

I also find it awesome that non-Orthodox can attend seminary - its a good opportunity to get a deep glimpse into what you're getting into.  I know that here at Holy Cross, we've had a couple EC seminarians come to here for a few classes, and both ended up converting!

Now, a couple of things to answer your questions:

1. With a degree from one of the various seminaries, besides the Ordained priesthood, there are a few areas that you can pursue in lay ministry.  First of all, if you enjoy working with the youth, there are various Youth Coordniator-type positions, either on the diocesan level or (if you're at a big-enough parish) at the parish level.  There are also DRE positions, and lay parish assistants (which are part-administrative, part-theological positions, where you help with the nuts-and-bolts of running the parish and assist the priest with writing and theological-type stuff; you're just not able to do the particular "priestly" activities).  I know that, at least in the GOA, we prefer that all these types of people have degrees from an accredited Orthodox Theological-Graduate School.

2. My suggestion to you, not from my own expeirence but from watching the struggles of those closest to me, is that if you're going to convert and pursue the priesthood, that you should do it in a few steps.  First step would be to take catechetical classes at a parish and convert there.  Then, before you attempt to enter the seminary, be an active member of a parish for a few years.  This is a key step.  I've seen many guys who come to the seminary within their first two years of being Orthodox, and they have an uphill climb for a few major reasons: a. in addition to their graduate-level Orthodox studies, they also have to learn about things that are basics to Orthodox life that could have been taught to them in the Parish; b. by not being SOLIDLY grounded in the faith for a period of time, they are very troubled by the political nonsense that is thrown about by trouble-makers (and, I believe, the Devil himself) that is ever-present to distract us from our calling to serve Christ.  These various garbage-type issues end up affecting those who have the smallest foundations in the faith the most, and in turn we lose good people to bad problems.

So, my advice is to be in the parish life: go to as many services as possible, volunteer, donate, go to classes, seminars, teach the kids - whatever you can do to get as much experience as you can, and also to build up a base of people who can care for you and pray for you (another key).

I'll post more thoughts on the subject as I get better from my cold/flu/whatever that I've gotten.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
choirfiend
ManIsChristian=iRnotgrEek.
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 903

Rachael weeping for her children, for they are not


« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2005, 11:21:40 PM »

Also, let's not forget service that one can offer the Church through the diaconate (being a deacon serves a liturgical and practical purpose--it's not an empty title) or on an administrative level. In Orthodoxy, there are lots of positions in leadership that are done by lay-person.
Logged

Qui cantat, bis orat
StGeorge
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 708


St. George


« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2005, 03:06:20 AM »

Thanks everyone for your posts. Smiley

Quote
Originally Quoted by Elisha:

Well to start with, your (well, the Western) mindest is very legalistic. The Orthodox is not so - much more flexible, pastoral, situational. Things are not so black and white and all there is does not need explaining.


Yes, I am very well aware about the Western mindset being very legalistic. In fact, the reason why I like the Orthodox mindset better is because it seems to better follow the way of thinking of Jesus and the apostles in the New Testament. Sometimes I think about what Jesus would say in certain situations were he thinking like a Roman Catholic (or any other Western Christian):

Jew (speaking to Jesus): "Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Jesus (were he to answer like a Western Christian):

"In order to inherit eternal life, you must needs pass the following three requirements. First, you are to have the minimum faith required of by the heavenly Father, a faith whose value is established by an analytical comparison of the faith of the Jewish Patriarchs and of those believers before you whose terms of earthly incarceration are completed. Second, upon death, all your mortal sins--I use mortal sins meaning those transgressions which involve complete free will and which concern a grave matter in connection with the Decalogue--must be sacramentally forgiven by a priest who has received the sanction of a bishop who is part of the apostolic succession of bishops. This aspect will become clearer to you after I found my Church, five months from now, at which time my representatives, yet to be announced, will elucidate these matters for you. Last, in relation with all those individuals with whom you do not yet possess a relationship based on established reciprocal fraternal behaviors, you must, by divine decree, bestow on these individuals no lesser assitance, whether material, social or spiritual, then you would on those whom you already have established fellowship."

 No offense to Jesus, since He never would say anything like that. Tongue

He wouldn't say that because it's way too legalistic and uncharacteristic of Him. Jesus, were he to think like an Orthodox, would say, and I'm going out on a limb here, "Do you know the commandments?...Do this and you shall live."

But seriously, when I read the Scriptures and the Church Fathers, and when I read the writings of modern Orthodox, I can find some difference in style, but I still see a genuine connection between the mindset of today's Orthodox and the earliest Christians. However, when I read the works of modern Catholic writers, especially the papal encyclicals and other Vatican documents, I oftentimes don't sense the simple yet profound understanding of the divine that I see in Orthodox writings. I just finished reading John Paul II's bestseller, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, and although it isn't a horrible title, I just don't get nearly as much spiritual wisdom out of it as I do from, say, Revelations of Divine Love, the Cloud of Unknowing, the works of St. Seraphim of Sarov, or the advice of the Desert Fathers.

Anyhow, I have to get going, but thanks a lot for your posts! Smiley    
« Last Edit: March 21, 2005, 03:27:32 AM by StGeorge » Logged
Elisha
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,452


« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2005, 03:03:56 PM »

StGerorge,

Keep in mind, that some of the writings you may encounter over the last few hundred years have been critized of being in the "Western Captivity" era.  Someone else here can add more detail to that.
Logged
StGeorge
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 708


St. George


« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2005, 11:47:42 PM »

Quote
Originally Quoted by Elisha:

StGerorge,

Keep in mind, that some of the writings you may encounter over the last few hundred years have been critized of being in the "Western Captivity" era.  Someone else here can add more detail to that.

Are you talking about the Avignon Papacy years, right before the Western schism that resulted in the Council of Constance?  Or, are you talking about the 4th Crusade when Constantinople was taken and made a Latin see? 
Logged
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2005, 01:07:01 AM »



Are you talking about the Avignon Papacy years, right before the Western schism that resulted in the Council of Constance? Or, are you talking about the 4th Crusade when Constantinople was taken and made a Latin see?

I think he is refering to a word we can't use here any longer: the "U"-word, or maybe not.  Wink

Demetri
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
BritishEnquirer
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 28


« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2005, 10:23:34 AM »

Hi StGeorge,

Here's an article called River of Fire which goes into the differences between West and East, with particular reference to what we call hell. I've found it to be very useful, as an Enquire myself.

http://www.philthompson.net/pages/library/riveroffire.html

In Christ
Christina
Logged
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2005, 10:46:18 AM »

Christina,

I assume your screen name is a true description of you. As a Brit and a convert, I'm interested to know more about you. Where are you, which jurisdiction are you looking at, etc? I'm Romanian Orthodox myself and my local church is in Mirfield, West Yorkshire (the only Romanian parish outside London, though there's also a Romanian Orthodox monastery in Gatten near Shrewsbury). I used to worship at a Greek church in Reading and before that I visited a joint Greek/Russian church in Oxford a few times. If I can be of any help in your enquiries into Orthodoxy give me a shout.

James
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
BritishEnquirer
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 28


« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2005, 11:11:09 AM »

Thanks James,

I'll PM you.

Christina
Logged
Augustine
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 565

pray for me, please


WWW
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2005, 07:38:24 PM »

Hi StGeorge

Quote
Hello.  I'm a 22-year-old single, Latin Rite Catholic in communion with Rome, but that might all change soon (at least the Latin Rite Catholic part).  Attacked by fundamentalist Christians, I have begun reading works of the early Church.  At first, I used these texts to defend Catholic beliefs, such as the Real Presence and the apostolic succession, but now, upon deeper reading, I am finding myself increasingly in favor of Orthodox beliefs.  I am discovering that the papacy was not present in the early Church, and was in fact an idea bolstered in the medieval ages by a series of forged documents.

If you keep reading, you'll only find further confirmation of your initial findings.  The "Papacy as we now know it" is a relatively recent thing (first Vatican Council in the late 19th century), and prior to this you'll see distinct "stages of development" in the Roman Papacy, each being created by various political pressures.

There's an excellent book by Michael Whelton called Two Paths: Papal Monarchy - Collegial Tradition which I highly recommend to people from Roman Catholic backgrounds (in fact this was the first book my Orthodox parish Priest handed me to read).  It's not all that could be said on the subject, but it's certainly a good start.  The book is easy to read, and well documented.  Another work (which you can get online for free) is Abbe Guettee's The Papacy - you can download a .pdf version of this book here.  The book is more polemical in tone than Mr.Whelton's brief tome, but does contain a lot of valuable information and argumentation.

Simply put, contemporary "papism" is a fraud; this is not overly harsh, since the arguments put forward in it's favour within the RCC were based on fraudulent documents (like the so called "Donation of Constantine"), and a lot of Papal strong arming (like the disgusting bullying which occured at the first Vatican Council, which decreed dogmatically that the Pope was "infallible").

Quote
1) I am interested in how Kallistos and other Orthodox writers emphasize how the East and West THINK differently, and this is why their theologies are much different from each other.  While I understand this to a degree, could someone please give me perhaps 5 or 6 ways in which the East and West are much different in the ways they think?

Well it's important to emphasize that a lot of the so called "eastern" ways of thinking were once shared by the west as well.  To a great degree talk of "east vs. west" is misleading, just as talk of "Roman vs. Byzantine" is misleading (since the "Byzantines" never called themselves such, but were the continuing part of the Roman Empire, which had moved it's capital from Rome to Constantinople in the fourth century A.D. - even the Muslim Arabs who conquered the Middle East understood their Orthodox Christian subjects to be Rum, or "Romans").  Really this is a case of "Roman Orthodox" vs. "Frankish Latin" thinking.  For some excellent discussions on this and many related topics, I'd suggest you go look at the articles at the following website...

The Romans - Ancient, Medieval, Modern

The articles available there actually deal with this question of just how Orthodox think "differently" than post-schism western Christians.  It would be pointless for me to try and rephrase what the articles on that site (many of them by the late Fr.John Romanides) have to say.  There's lots of reading material there for you, and I think you'll get a lot out of it (I know I did.)

Quote
2) I wish to serve the Church (wherever the Church may be!).  I honestly have considered some sort of religious life with the Western Church, but they require you to be celibate, and I don't feel that God is calling me to the celibate life, although I sense that He is pulling me towards some way of life in which I teach and help others, especially with their spiritual needs.  I had thought earlier that perhaps I should become a DRE or a Catholic teacher at a Western Church school, but now I am not so sure if I could do this were I to become Orthodox.

I can appreciate your enthusiasm and desire to serve God, but I think you have more basic matters to concern yourself with at this point.  Our parish Priest said to me once, that the devil wants you to try and do a lot of things (to really load up your plate) and do them poorly, rather than do a few things well (in particular, to get the basics down pat.)  At this point, you seem to be at a crossroads regarding your spiritual affiliation.  This is just my two cents (though I'm tempted to think mosts Priests would agree with me here), but I think you should work on your own situation for now, before forming plans to enter into a Priestly ministry.  If that is God's will for you, it will happen - and it will not require your prodding your parish Priest or your Bishop either, you'll likely get approached about this at some point in the future.  Rather at this point, pray a lot, read some good spiritual books, and start attending Orthodox services and make a point of talking to the Priest there about your concerns.

St.Seraphim of Sarov (a much beloved Russian Saint, a heroic ascetic and man of incredible humility) said that if you "acquire the Holy Spirit", you'll save a thousand people around you.  His point is a characteristically Orthodox one - the genuine, effective missionary and pastor of souls, is the one who is sincerely seeking his own salvation first and foremost.  St.Seraphim was a hermit, who spent years and years in solitude and silence, yet because he had grown so great in the grace of God, people found their way to him - undoubtedly St.Seraphim is responsible (in so far as God's creatures can play a role in salvation) for the salvation of many thousands upon thousands of people...thus demonstrating this little gem of monastic wisdom.

Logged
simplygermain
beer-bellied tellitubby
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA - Northwest, Baby!
Posts: 771


Zechariah 11:7


WWW
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2009, 06:57:22 PM »

Quick commentary:
St George, These voices in the desert you heard just now have given you much beautiful spiritual and physical advice. Head their genuine words carefully...You are on a path of discovery. Keep your eyes open! God Bless you son. We will pray for you.- SimplyGermaine

(p.s. To those who responded before my post, Good job guys - He's right where he needs to be. What a blessing to have him cross our path. We have truly been witnesses to our Lord's Grace at work.)
Logged

I believe, help Thou my unbelief!! - St. John of Krondstadt

http://Http://hairshirtagenda.blogspot.com

 Witega: "Bishops and Metropolitans and even Patriarchs have been removed under decidedly questionable circumstances before but the Church moves on."
jnorm888
Jnorm
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,516


Icon and Cross (international space station)


WWW
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2009, 08:16:01 PM »

Quote
Hello. I'm a 22-year-old single, Latin Rite Catholic in communion with Rome, but that might all change soon (at least the Latin Rite Catholic part). Attacked by fundamentalist Christians, I have begun reading works of the early Church.


Alot of people may not understand how true this is for alot of converts and seekers to E.O. It was true for me as well as others I have met in different cities at conferences.


What topics did they argue with you about? And what caused you to read the works of the early christians?

I'm glad you did, but I would like to know more of what happened, and what fundamentalist group they were?


If it's a long story.......that's ok......I ain't going anywhere........ I'm all ears.







Jnorm888
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 08:24:56 PM by jnorm888 » Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
StGeorge
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 708


St. George


« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2009, 12:01:42 AM »

Quote
Hello. I'm a 22-year-old single, Latin Rite Catholic in communion with Rome, but that might all change soon (at least the Latin Rite Catholic part). Attacked by fundamentalist Christians, I have begun reading works of the early Church.


Alot of people may not understand how true this is for alot of converts and seekers to E.O. It was true for me as well as others I have met in different cities at conferences.


What topics did they argue with you about? And what caused you to read the works of the early christians?

I'm glad you did, but I would like to know more of what happened, and what fundamentalist group they were?


If it's a long story.......that's ok......I ain't going anywhere........ I'm all ears.







Jnorm888

Wow, it's a surprise to see this thread again.  I had forgotten about it.  I like simplygermain's last post. 

As I recollect, the "attacks" by fundamentalists were not conducted in a malicious manner but in the spirit of believing their beliefs as holy and right, those of Catholicism as of the Devil.  I was good friends with someone in college.  We were of the same major (English) and were both fascinated by intellectual subjects.  I can't exactly remember what precipitated the arguments, but they were never planned.  Our interests were similar, and our conversations went along the same line to a certain point at which foundational differences emerged.  Salvation, by grace alone, by faith alone, was a key issue of divergence.  I thought that my friend, be as it may a crazy Protestant fundamentalist, was still a good Christian, one who studied his Bible, devoted daily time to prayer and assisted all those around him.  Even though he might not die Catholic, he still might yet go to heaven, so I thought.  My friend's expressed attitude towards me was that if I died at that very moment, I would go straight to Hell.  I could not understand why this would be, since I went to Mass, confessed my sins, and strived for holiness.  That's what I think began my interest in Catholic apologetics.  Just a short time before meeting my friend at college, I started becoming more interested in my Catholic faith.  I had read the four Gospels and many other books of the Bible the year before, and about the same time I became acquainted with Josephus through Tacitus and other works on ancient history.  I believe my interest in the early Church Fathers (the Apostolic Fathers, as called in Catholicism) was fueled by a fascination that these early Christian writings, almost as old as the gospels, existed and yet few persons knew about them.  I started with Early Christian Writings (Penguin) and shortly thereafter read Four Witnesses (http://www.amazon.com/Four-Witnesses-Early-Church-Words/dp/0898708478/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246247092&sr=8-1.

Besides my friend at college, the other fundamentalists I encountered were online.  Individual persons, not groups.  The central point of divergence was salvation, but I do remember some fundamentalists' comments that emphasized personal conviction, simplicity, Christ as only intermediary, flawed human authority/Bible alone to be trusted, versus the Catholic ignorance of one's eternal salvation, liturgical splendor, intercessory prayer of Mary and the saints, the infallibility of the Church.

At the time I wrote the original post of this thread, I was but three months out of undergraduate school (I graduated mid-year).  I'm re-reading the posts to see if I can take in any wisdom I missed earlier. 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 12:09:31 AM by StGeorge » Logged
StGeorge
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 708


St. George


« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2009, 12:13:27 AM »


I'll post more thoughts on the subject as I get better from my cold/flu/whatever that I've gotten.


Have you gotten over that cold/flu/whatever? Smiley
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 12:13:46 AM by StGeorge » Logged
simplygermain
beer-bellied tellitubby
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA - Northwest, Baby!
Posts: 771


Zechariah 11:7


WWW
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2009, 12:56:55 AM »

St. George, how has your experiences since these posts changed your view, opened your eyes, or given you more questions? Have you had an opportunity to seek out an Orthodox Church to learn more? I'm curious because your questions were so in depth, I could tell you had been thinking a few steps ahead of what you were writing about...the way we can sometimes see parts of our lives about to happen while in the midst of new information.
Logged

I believe, help Thou my unbelief!! - St. John of Krondstadt

http://Http://hairshirtagenda.blogspot.com

 Witega: "Bishops and Metropolitans and even Patriarchs have been removed under decidedly questionable circumstances before but the Church moves on."
StGeorge
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 708


St. George


« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2009, 11:45:44 AM »

St. George, how has your experiences since these posts changed your view, opened your eyes, or given you more questions? Have you had an opportunity to seek out an Orthodox Church to learn more? I'm curious because your questions were so in depth, I could tell you had been thinking a few steps ahead of what you were writing about...the way we can sometimes see parts of our lives about to happen while in the midst of new information.

When I first created this thread and read the posts, back in 2005, I had just finished college and was preparing to attend Franciscan University of Steubenville for grad school.  By that point, I had been planning to attend a Byzantine Catholic church once in Steubenville.  I even went so far as to see my next two years as a defining moment of determining where the Church is.  I saved the address of an Orthodox church in my cell phone, and for the first year I planned on visiting at least once, but it wasn't until late in my second year that I actually visited.  Before that time, I attended a Byzantine Catholic parish in a nearby town.  I discovered to my delight that several persons in my dorm attended there, and I tagged along with them. 



Logged
StGeorge
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 708


St. George


« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2009, 12:26:27 PM »

(continued from last post)


When I wrote the thread, I imagined the differences to be East versus West, and I held onto this even in attending an Eastern Catholic church.  Now, after becoming Orthodox, the differences seem to be more between Orthodoxy and non-Orthodoxy.  There's a subtle experiential element to being Orthodox that opens my eyes to certain spiritual realities I did not notice before.   

I tried high school teaching at a Catholic school.  It didn't work out.  I'm still considering the possibility of priesthood, but I agree that it's probably best I wait some more time.  I'm still becoming familiar with the liturgical cycles and services, and with the different traditions amongst the jurisdictions. 
Logged
simplygermain
beer-bellied tellitubby
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA - Northwest, Baby!
Posts: 771


Zechariah 11:7


WWW
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2009, 01:46:24 PM »

What current jurisdiction are you under, Still Byzantine? or another?
Logged

I believe, help Thou my unbelief!! - St. John of Krondstadt

http://Http://hairshirtagenda.blogspot.com

 Witega: "Bishops and Metropolitans and even Patriarchs have been removed under decidedly questionable circumstances before but the Church moves on."
StGeorge
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 708


St. George


« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2009, 06:51:14 PM »

What current jurisdiction are you under, Still Byzantine? or another?

I was chrismated into the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese (ACROD).  Since I moved, I've been attending an OCA mission. 
Logged
simplygermain
beer-bellied tellitubby
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA - Northwest, Baby!
Posts: 771


Zechariah 11:7


WWW
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2009, 09:02:23 PM »

I was baptized in the OCA. My god-father just turned me on to this amazing theologian, Jacob of Serug - Syrian , c.451. He writes in verse and prose concerning the spiritual matters of an Orthodox heart amongst other things . I believe his writings may help you. I can not say why other than that I feel it.
Logged

I believe, help Thou my unbelief!! - St. John of Krondstadt

http://Http://hairshirtagenda.blogspot.com

 Witega: "Bishops and Metropolitans and even Patriarchs have been removed under decidedly questionable circumstances before but the Church moves on."
StGeorge
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 708


St. George


« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2009, 10:11:58 PM »

I was baptized in the OCA. My god-father just turned me on to this amazing theologian, Jacob of Serug - Syrian , c.451. He writes in verse and prose concerning the spiritual matters of an Orthodox heart amongst other things . I believe his writings may help you. I can not say why other than that I feel it.

Thanks for the suggestion of Jacob of Serug.  I've never heard of him until now.  I found online a book of homilies and poetry published by St. Vladimir Seminary Press.  I'll probably see if I can obtain a copy.   
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.119 seconds with 54 queries.